Anyone read the latest research on Keto by Alan Aragon?

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Replies

  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    Again, I am not saying that I disagree with the proposed research.. It's which sites that are putting it out their that poses the problem. Not for the sake of finding it invalid myself but that your target audience who oppose it WILL. If you take a known truth from a reputable medical website, delete it from its archives, and repost it on a non-reputable site.. truth withstanding, your audience will poke holes in it.

    As for the demonizing it, perhaps you will benefit more by explaining ahead of time that your are in fact NOT AGAINST KETO, but against the pseudoscience behind it and that your goal is to educate the more thoughtful before they swallow the misinformation. Like I tell my daughter, it's not WHAT YOU SAY, it's how you say it. Or in this case, delivered it.

    Do you see what I am trying to explain? It's not the content, it's the who..

    And I never said it satiated everyone, psuLemon. In fact, I clearly spelled out that it is only viable to those it does satiate. I'm a neutral participant in this keto game that is being played. I do keto with the knowledge that it is beneficial to people like me but skeptical to the "science" behind it. I put science in quotation marks to emphasize the ridiculousness I find most of the research to be.

    My problem is only with the imbalance being displayed for and against it. The delivery of those who are against it acts like an attack on the entire system and it's demography rather than just the science behind it.

    An example would be two groups fighting over whether or not santa clause is real.. but on two complete extreme opposite sides.
    One side says there is a santa clause and hails his flying reign deer, magical elves, North Pole address, and his proposed ability to stalk 7 billion victims.
    On the other extreme end are those completely against the idea at all and deny any existence he may have ever held.
    In the middle is the person calling out the unicorn riding fairy folk and while simultaneously trying to unplug the mules ears and explain that no you do NOT believe in fairy tales but there was a man from which the story is based so the idea of his existence is not as far reaching as they could imagine and the principles in which he left; joy, peace, kindness, hope..are still principles in which we could all agree on.

    Still get the impression you haven't actually read it to be honest - the review and critique of current research for example. Are you just looking at the OP screen grab or have you followed the link and read it for yourself?
    If you do read it them you will see that your scepticism of the "science" is shared - that's why they comment on the quality of the studies done which reflects on the credibility of any conclusions arrived at.
    It's the opposite of the far too common searching for studies, or parts of studies, that confirm a bias.

    "Do you see what I am trying to explain? It's not the content, it's the who.. "
    Now that I find really strange - are you familiar with the contributors and reviewers? I'm not understanding your bias against them.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,426 MFP Moderator
    edited October 2017
    And btw. this is the first time I've heard anyone call Alan Aragon "not reputable". Say what?

    It should be noted that Alan Aragon was on the review panel. The people that conducted the meta-analysis were:
    • Adam Tzur is the head of SCI-FIT.
    • Brandon Roberts works at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. He is also employed by The Strength Guys.
    • Alex Leaf works for Examine.com.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,426 MFP Moderator
    sijomial wrote: »
    Again, I am not saying that I disagree with the proposed research.. It's which sites that are putting it out their that poses the problem. Not for the sake of finding it invalid myself but that your target audience who oppose it WILL. If you take a known truth from a reputable medical website, delete it from its archives, and repost it on a non-reputable site.. truth withstanding, your audience will poke holes in it.

    As for the demonizing it, perhaps you will benefit more by explaining ahead of time that your are in fact NOT AGAINST KETO, but against the pseudoscience behind it and that your goal is to educate the more thoughtful before they swallow the misinformation. Like I tell my daughter, it's not WHAT YOU SAY, it's how you say it. Or in this case, delivered it.

    Do you see what I am trying to explain? It's not the content, it's the who..

    And I never said it satiated everyone, psuLemon. In fact, I clearly spelled out that it is only viable to those it does satiate. I'm a neutral participant in this keto game that is being played. I do keto with the knowledge that it is beneficial to people like me but skeptical to the "science" behind it. I put science in quotation marks to emphasize the ridiculousness I find most of the research to be.

    My problem is only with the imbalance being displayed for and against it. The delivery of those who are against it acts like an attack on the entire system and it's demography rather than just the science behind it.

    An example would be two groups fighting over whether or not santa clause is real.. but on two complete extreme opposite sides.
    One side says there is a santa clause and hails his flying reign deer, magical elves, North Pole address, and his proposed ability to stalk 7 billion victims.
    On the other extreme end are those completely against the idea at all and deny any existence he may have ever held.
    In the middle is the person calling out the unicorn riding fairy folk and while simultaneously trying to unplug the mules ears and explain that no you do NOT believe in fairy tales but there was a man from which the story is based so the idea of his existence is not as far reaching as they could imagine and the principles in which he left; joy, peace, kindness, hope..are still principles in which we could all agree on.

    Still get the impression you haven't actually read it to be honest - the review and critique of current research for example. Are you just looking at the OP screen grab or have you followed the link and read it for yourself?
    If you do read it them you will see that your scepticism of the "science" is shared - that's why they comment on the quality of the studies done which reflects on the credibility of any conclusions arrived at.
    It's the opposite of the far too common searching for studies, or parts of studies, that confirm a bias.

    "Do you see what I am trying to explain? It's not the content, it's the who.. "
    Now that I find really strange - are you familiar with the contributors and reviewers? I'm not understanding your bias against them.

    I actually just re-read the whole meta anaylsis to see if I was missing something. The data seems very neutral in how it was written.

    The one thing I really think is interesting is that in many studies there is huge swings in performance between one person to the next, as noted below. It seems pretty consistent with a majority of the studies; of which, those studies are being conducted by some of the leading researchers in the low carb community (phinney, noakes, etc...).

    Individual-data-points.png
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    @MinuitMinuet you are responsible for whatever you are reading in and reacting to both in the OP and other posts. It was presented as neutral data with no criticism. I honestly don't get what you are reacting to and from some of the posts, neither do others.
  • LiftHeavyThings27105
    LiftHeavyThings27105 Posts: 2,086 Member
    Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald are bad *kitten* dudes. There are several others - Dr. Joe Klemczewski comes to mind first. Anyway, maybe the person who is challenging this is unaware of who these folks are? And, that (questioning things) is not a bad thing. At least, I don't think that it is a bad thing.

    I just find things interesting. We here in the US are pretty much obese. And we are obese for lots of reasons

    <<<<<START RANT HERE>>>>>>

    ...mostly because we are lazy....not going to say 'Sorry' for that....that is my experience and it is confirmed time and time and time and time and time again.....we make far too many excuses....both for ourselves and for others.
    We need to be personally accountable and have personal responsibility and take ownership (nobody wants to ever do that.....even for themselves)......We choose to be lazy and apathetic ("...but it takes so much time to learn all this stuff....can't you just tell me what to do?" - I hear that ALL the time) and then expect to take some magic pill to make our laziness and apathy go away (along with whatever other ailments afflict us). I also hear "...but I go to the gym five times a week..." and then they sit on the sit-down bike and work on their iPad all the while going at a magnificent pace of 1/2 mile an hour. What needs to happen before we here in the US get it? What it usually takes is someone has diabetes and looses a foot, or worse. What it usually takes is someone has a stroke, or worse. But, then it is too late.

    Anyway, it just ticks me off to no end how lazy we have become. I will not even get into "not being present"....Ha! I will get y'all later on that rant!


    <<<<<END RANT HERE>>>>>

    If there is something that we can do to combat that then let's investigate. But, it is my responsibility to take care of me....and your responsibility to take care of you. And, as we all know (but sometimes seem to forget) - we are all different. Not everything works for everyone.....

    Anyway, I still find this conversation interesting. Not everyone scrolls through the forums (read: usually just look at the first page).
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    I am so lost. What's wrong with where the research analysis is hosted?
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    Where should it be hosted?
  • MinuitMinuet
    MinuitMinuet Posts: 156 Member
    Where should it be hosted?

    Can it be submitted to maybe a medical site? How does hosting work?
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,426 MFP Moderator
    Where should it be hosted?

    Can it be submitted to maybe a medical site? How does hosting work?

    Medical sites don't really host this kind of information. They take recommendations from scientific boards to form opinions. They aren't research sites.
  • MinuitMinuet
    MinuitMinuet Posts: 156 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Where should it be hosted?

    Can it be submitted to maybe a medical site? How does hosting work?

    Medical sites don't really host this kind of information. They take recommendations from scientific boards to form opinions. They aren't research sites.

    That's a shame. I really like science and research and would like to see sites like this grow in popularity. It would go a long way if it could be shared as an objective based argument.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,426 MFP Moderator
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Where should it be hosted?

    Can it be submitted to maybe a medical site? How does hosting work?

    Medical sites don't really host this kind of information. They take recommendations from scientific boards to form opinions. They aren't research sites.

    That's a shame. I really like science and research and would like to see sites like this grow in popularity. It would go a long way if it could be shared as an objective based argument.

    Ironically, the ones that do exist tend to be very biased towards one particular diet and slow to adopt any new science. That is why it's important to look at research sites or universities as opposed to doctors sites. But also, you should note there are significant difference between PhD's and MD's. The majority of MD's have no training or education in nutritional sciences. This is why I would put little faith in most of their recommendations.
  • MinuitMinuet
    MinuitMinuet Posts: 156 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Where should it be hosted?

    Can it be submitted to maybe a medical site? How does hosting work?

    Medical sites don't really host this kind of information. They take recommendations from scientific boards to form opinions. They aren't research sites.

    That's a shame. I really like science and research and would like to see sites like this grow in popularity. It would go a long way if it could be shared as an objective based argument.

    Ironically, the ones that do exist tend to be very biased towards one particular diet and slow to adopt any new science. That is why it's important to look at research sites or universities as opposed to doctors sites. But also, you should note there are significant difference between PhD's and MD's. The majority of MD's have no training or education in nutritional sciences. This is why I would put little faith in most of their recommendations.

    I agree. Problem is, not everyone does. Not enough dragons to slay.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,426 MFP Moderator
    Mycophilia wrote: »
    Whoever made that pyramid should be ejected into space..
    I tried fixing it, but the trapeziums aren't even the right size! Geometry has never been this triggering before.

    3k32wenm297i.png

    What do you expect from PhD's, lol? It's from Dr. Brad Schoenfelds site.

    http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/evidence-based-practice-in-exercise-and-nutrition-common-misconceptions-and-criticisms/
  • LiftHeavyThings27105
    LiftHeavyThings27105 Posts: 2,086 Member
    Hold on....there is a web site called "lookgreatnaked.com"? Hawt dang! LOL!
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    So, like the obsessed ketoers, shaky sites. I agree that it's mostly nonsense, but the sites on both sides are.. questionable. You can woo me all you like but that doesn't take away from the fact that I'm right. Anti-ketoers hate it and demonized it while ketoers evangelize it. I beginning to think you people just like to find something to fight about..like an old nagging couple. There needs to be a neutral group that can untangle this mess and show both sides that it isn't magic but it isn't ridiculous either. If it don't work for you.. try something else.. don't hate on those it works for. If it works for you, awesome, don't add pseudoscience to try and make it look better. Just leave it at CICO for those who binge on carbs.

    and who are you again?
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,426 MFP Moderator
    Hold on....there is a web site called "lookgreatnaked.com"? Hawt dang! LOL!

    I always struggle going to it at work, but it is filled with goodness.