Anyone read the latest research on Keto by Alan Aragon?
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Fascinating stuff, thanks!0
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Calories in < calories out will result in weight loss no matter what you put in your body but putting the right things in your body matter it's the difference of building your house with straw or bricks.
Sure, all compared diets may work essentially the same when perfectly followed (cal in<cal out), but where Keto has the edge (for me and many others) is the diet is highly satiating. After initial adjustment you simply aren't as hungry, what you eat is very satisfying, and (if you aren't a fake baker or using a ton of artificial sweetners in everything) you lose your cravings for sweets. So while it may not "work better", it is easier to stick to for a lot of people.
Also, many people feel better when they eat ketogenically. My arthritis is much improved when I am not eating grains and sugars. I also sleep better and have less brain fog. YMMV
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orangejulius wrote: »
Calories in < calories out will result in weight loss no matter what you put in your body but putting the right things in your body matter it's the difference of building your house with straw or bricks.
Sure, all compared diets may work essentially the same when perfectly followed (cal in<cal out), but where Keto has the edge (for me and many others) is the diet is highly satiating. After initial adjustment you simply aren't as hungry, what you eat is very satisfying, and (if you aren't a fake baker or using a ton of artificial sweetners in everything) you lose your cravings for sweets. So while it may not "work better", it is easier to stick to for a lot of people.
Also, many people feel better when they eat ketogenically. My arthritis is much improved when I am not eating grains and sugars. I also sleep better and have less brain fog. YMMV
In all the bolded instances above. the statement many should be changed to "some". There are a good number of people who don't feel that way and I am one of them. I don't feel better, I'm not more satisfied and it doesn't work better for me. I am not alone and I don't think "most" people would agree with your statements. This is where keto proponents start sounding like fanatics. When they use these sweeping generalities. Great that it works for you. It is faulty to project that to "most" people and editorialize on the objective data presented.4 -
orangejulius wrote: »
Calories in < calories out will result in weight loss no matter what you put in your body but putting the right things in your body matter it's the difference of building your house with straw or bricks.
Sure, all compared diets may work essentially the same when perfectly followed (cal in<cal out), but where Keto has the edge (for me and many others) is the diet is highly satiating. After initial adjustment you simply aren't as hungry, what you eat is very satisfying, and (if you aren't a fake baker or using a ton of artificial sweetners in everything) you lose your cravings for sweets. So while it may not "work better", it is easier to stick to for a lot of people.
Also, many people feel better when they eat ketogenically. My arthritis is much improved when I am not eating grains and sugars. I also sleep better and have less brain fog. YMMV
In all the bolded instances above. the statement many should be changed to "some". There are a good number of people who don't feel that way and I am one of them. I don't feel better, I'm not more satisfied and it doesn't work better for me. I am not alone and I don't think "most" people would agree with your statements. This is where keto proponents start sounding like fanatics. When they use these sweeping generalities. Great that it works for you. It is faulty to project that to "most" people and editorialize on the objective data presented.
Exactly. Keto doesn't have an objective "edge", just a subjective one. What people find satiating varies. I personally don't find fat satiating, so keto would make me miserable.
My experience is that my arthritis does not respond to dietary intervention and I am just fine eating grains and sugar. The only positive intervention that I've noticed having any affect on my arthritis is exercise.
I often wonder how many keto proponents would do well on a more moderate carb approach of 100-150 grams of carb a day to allow for a more varied and nutritious diet. It would allow for more vegetables, they could still eliminate grains and starches if desired. I understand keto is the hot thing right now, but it just seems so unnecessarily restrictive for a vast majority of people who head straight to it. A lot of the issues they want to address could be addressed with plain old low carb.3 -
Flame war lol cause “I often wonder” if all the keto na sayers have actually followed a well formulated keto diet? Or just tried for a week or two. Doesn’t really matter cause people like to argue/debate why they’re ways the best. And no one like being told what they're doing isn’t the most effective. But it’s good cause it starts the sharing of info. And the smarter people will use all available tools at they’re disposal to increase ones health. I at least try every sides concepts if I believe they will be beneficial to me after doing the research. And then find a way to implement them into my custom lifestyle. Later and luck to all10
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KarblessKreature wrote: »Flame war lol cause “I often wonder” if all the keto na sayers have actually followed a well formulated keto diet? Or just tried for a week or two. Doesn’t really matter cause people like to argue/debate why they’re ways the best. And no one like being told what they're doing isn’t the most effective. But it’s good cause it starts the sharing of info. And the smarter people will use all available tools at they’re disposal to increase ones health. I at least try every sides concepts if I believe they will be beneficial to me after doing the research. And then find a way to implement them into my custom lifestyle. Later and luck to all
Nice. Because we don't extol the virtues of magical keto we aren't smart. Moving on.
This isn't necessarily about debate, the OP was sharing the first part in a multi-part review of various studies into keto and its varying effects. It wasn't at any point meant to be a them vs us, it's an objective view. Everything was just dandy until those who practice keto came in telling us we're wrong and demonising it. Which nobody is. We're just saying you do you boo but it isn't for everyone, not even most.
I know a lot more people who find starch satiating than I do fat. Me included. I just had a melting middle burger with a brioche bun. I am stuffed to the gills on just that. The starch is a major component because I had the same sans bun (because I forgot to buy them) so had it with just some non-starchy veg. Nowhere near as full.
It can help with health conditions in some people, IR and epilepsy being two of them. But most people aren't IR or epileptic.
And finally. I like starch, if I were to keto I'd go round the twist fantasising about bread and potatoes and some desserts. Not even things I eat an especially large amount of but I thoroughly enjoy them and see no reason to exclude them from my diet for no other reason than it's allegedly better in some way. Plus carbs fuel my pretty strenuous workouts.3 -
KarblessKreature wrote: »Flame war lol cause “I often wonder” if all the keto na sayers have actually followed a well formulated keto diet? Or just tried for a week or two. Doesn’t really matter cause people like to argue/debate why they’re ways the best. And no one like being told what they're doing isn’t the most effective. But it’s good cause it starts the sharing of info. And the smarter people will use all available tools at they’re disposal to increase ones health. I at least try every sides concepts if I believe they will be beneficial to me after doing the research. And then find a way to implement them into my custom lifestyle. Later and luck to all
What are you on about? Why would someone who knows fat isn't satiating even try keto?
FTR? I did low carb, just not keto, for ten years.
Low carbing did nothing for my arthritis, in fact, I was worse then than I was now.
Personally, I find that finding a sustainable lifestyle and adhering to it is what is the determining factor in how smart someone is.
Anyone who'd be miserable on any sort of diet would be pretty foolish trying to stick with it.
If a person who's sated by fat tried to be a high carb vegan, that would be a pretty tough task as well.
There's not a single objectively best diet protocol in terms of satiety.
This research review (which is the subject of the thread) so far covered how keto impacts certain areas of training. There will be further parts of the review released relating, for example, to keto's impact on disease. It will be interesting to see the findings and what the current research supports from an objective standpoint.5 -
KarblessKreature wrote: »Flame war lol cause “I often wonder” if all the keto na sayers have actually followed a well formulated keto diet? Or just tried for a week or two. Doesn’t really matter cause people like to argue/debate why they’re ways the best. And no one like being told what they're doing isn’t the most effective. But it’s good cause it starts the sharing of info. And the smarter people will use all available tools at they’re disposal to increase ones health. I at least try every sides concepts if I believe they will be beneficial to me after doing the research. And then find a way to implement them into my custom lifestyle. Later and luck to all
My choice to not go keto has nothing to do with my intelligence.6 -
orangejulius wrote: »
Calories in < calories out will result in weight loss no matter what you put in your body but putting the right things in your body matter it's the difference of building your house with straw or bricks.
Sure, all compared diets may work essentially the same when perfectly followed (cal in<cal out), but where Keto has the edge (for me and many others) is the diet is highly satiating. After initial adjustment you simply aren't as hungry, what you eat is very satisfying, and (if you aren't a fake baker or using a ton of artificial sweetners in everything) you lose your cravings for sweets. So while it may not "work better", it is easier to stick to for a lot of people.
Also, many people feel better when they eat ketogenically. My arthritis is much improved when I am not eating grains and sugars. I also sleep better and have less brain fog. YMMV
I'm glad that you have what works for you figured out. It's freeing, isn't it?
For me, I find that a good exercise routine does the same things regarding sleep, brain fog, and improved aches and pains (old neck injury with inflammation being a big factor in flare ups). I didn't find keto satiating, although I didn't give it a long go. I find balance satiating, because I feel less deprived about my food selections. What I found to lessen the cravings for sweet treats most effective, was to stop trying to ban them.
Those are my experiences and thoughts. Of course, as is the case for you, others have different experiences.1 -
Never said keto was the smart way. Thats how you, who probably doesn’t like keto, reacted to what I wrote. Reread it. And for low carb vs keto it’s a whole different ball game my friend. Like I did said you didn’t even give keto a proper try. Most processed carbs cause some type of inflammation in the body. Can’t fight the science. And like I said I will try anything that will better my long term health and do a proper n=1 on it. I was fine even flourishing on a carb based diet. Keto was an attempt to help my sciatica issue (from too much sports, injury in my 20’s and genetics it seems) wanting to lean out a bit and gain lean mass(~1# a month). Didn’t like going thru a bulking cycle and having to cut after ward. So a super slow bulk for me from now on. Worked wonders on those accounts and seem to be chugging along just fine. Like I said you dismissed keto cause your mentally hook on carbs, body treats them like a drug. You never even really tried keto and look down upon it. I’ll be switching to a CKD at around year mark after staring keto to see how that works for me. And I’m sure I’ll which ever works best I’ll stick with. But like I said do you. Later and pass the butter.12
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I'm sorry, but since when are the only alternatives keto or processed carbs. Nowhere in my post did I mention them. In fact, I mentioned more vegetables.
You keep missing the point on why I dismiss keto as well: I'm not satiated by fat.
Why would I eat a macro split where 75% percent of my calories would come from something that doesn't fill me up?
Also? TIL that my body treats vegetables like a drug.3 -
VintageFeline wrote: »KarblessKreature wrote: »Flame war lol cause “I often wonder” if all the keto na sayers have actually followed a well formulated keto diet? Or just tried for a week or two. Doesn’t really matter cause people like to argue/debate why they’re ways the best. And no one like being told what they're doing isn’t the most effective. But it’s good cause it starts the sharing of info. And the smarter people will use all available tools at they’re disposal to increase ones health. I at least try every sides concepts if I believe they will be beneficial to me after doing the research. And then find a way to implement them into my custom lifestyle. Later and luck to all
Nice. Because we don't extol the virtues of magical keto we aren't smart. Moving on.
This isn't necessarily about debate, the OP was sharing the first part in a multi-part review of various studies into keto and its varying effects. It wasn't at any point meant to be a them vs us, it's an objective view. Everything was just dandy until those who practice keto came in telling us we're wrong and demonising it. Which nobody is. We're just saying you do you boo but it isn't for everyone, not even most.
I know a lot more people who find starch satiating than I do fat. Me included. I just had a melting middle burger with a brioche bun. I am stuffed to the gills on just that. The starch is a major component because I had the same sans bun (because I forgot to buy them) so had it with just some non-starchy veg. Nowhere near as full.
It can help with health conditions in some people, IR and epilepsy being two of them. But most people aren't IR or epileptic.
And finally. I like starch, if I were to keto I'd go round the twist fantasising about bread and potatoes and some desserts. Not even things I eat an especially large amount of but I thoroughly enjoy them and see no reason to exclude them from my diet for no other reason than it's allegedly better in some way. Plus carbs fuel my pretty strenuous workouts.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »KarblessKreature wrote: »Flame war lol cause “I often wonder” if all the keto na sayers have actually followed a well formulated keto diet? Or just tried for a week or two. Doesn’t really matter cause people like to argue/debate why they’re ways the best. And no one like being told what they're doing isn’t the most effective. But it’s good cause it starts the sharing of info. And the smarter people will use all available tools at they’re disposal to increase ones health. I at least try every sides concepts if I believe they will be beneficial to me after doing the research. And then find a way to implement them into my custom lifestyle. Later and luck to all
What are you on about? Why would someone who knows fat isn't satiating even try keto?
FTR? I did low carb, just not keto, for ten years.
Low carbing did nothing for my arthritis, in fact, I was worse then than I was now.
Personally, I find that finding a sustainable lifestyle and adhering to it is what is the determining factor in how smart someone is.
Anyone who'd be miserable on any sort of diet would be pretty foolish trying to stick with it.
If a person who's sated by fat tried to be a high carb vegan, that would be a pretty tough task as well.
There's not a single objectively best diet protocol in terms of satiety.
This research review (which is the subject of the thread) so far covered how keto impacts certain areas of training. There will be further parts of the review released relating, for example, to keto's impact on disease. It will be interesting to see the findings and what the current research supports from an objective standpoint.nutmegoreo wrote: »KarblessKreature wrote: »Flame war lol cause “I often wonder” if all the keto na sayers have actually followed a well formulated keto diet? Or just tried for a week or two. Doesn’t really matter cause people like to argue/debate why they’re ways the best. And no one like being told what they're doing isn’t the most effective. But it’s good cause it starts the sharing of info. And the smarter people will use all available tools at they’re disposal to increase ones health. I at least try every sides concepts if I believe they will be beneficial to me after doing the research. And then find a way to implement them into my custom lifestyle. Later and luck to all
My choice to not go keto has nothing to do with my intelligence.
Sorry my post was in response to all the above. You’ll have to decide what was aimed at you1 -
Ah. We're all hooked on carbs.
Well, like that old slogan... hooked on carbs worked for me!
It's interesting, and pertinent to the topic of the thread, that you're going to do CKD. Is this around some training goal? It would be in line with what the review is stating.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ah. We're all hooked on carbs.
Well, like that old slogan... hooked on carbs worked for me!
It's interesting, and pertinent to the topic of the thread, that you're going to do CKD. Is this around some training goal? It would be in line with what the review is stating.
Yes we’re all hook on processed carbs!
Lol Exactly what I mean. You take one part of what I said with no regard to the whole. Plzs reread. I never said the study was *kitten*.
As for he CKD, I enjoy n=1 experiment trying to maximize my health and longevity. So I’m constantly running one on myself with regards to something. For myself I seem to have a high carb tolerance. But that’s for another thread.7 -
KarblessKreature wrote: »Never said keto was the smart way. Thats how you, who probably doesn’t like keto, reacted to what I wrote. Reread it. And for low carb vs keto it’s a whole different ball game my friend. Like I did said you didn’t even give keto a proper try. Most processed carbs cause some type of inflammation in the body. Can’t fight the science. And like I said I will try anything that will better my long term health and do a proper n=1 on it. I was fine even flourishing on a carb based diet. Keto was an attempt to help my sciatica issue (from too much sports, injury in my 20’s and genetics it seems) wanting to lean out a bit and gain lean mass(~1# a month). Didn’t like going thru a bulking cycle and having to cut after ward. So a super slow bulk for me from now on. Worked wonders on those accounts and seem to be chugging along just fine. Like I said you dismissed keto cause your mentally hook on carbs, body treats them like a drug. You never even really tried keto and look down upon it. I’ll be switching to a CKD at around year mark after staring keto to see how that works for me. And I’m sure I’ll which ever works best I’ll stick with. But like I said do you. Later and pass the butter.
Interesting about the bolded above. I eat moderate carbs and, in my annual physical about a month ago, my doctor said my blood work and the general state of my health indicate pretty much a complete absence of inflammation.
FTR, I am neither pro nor anti keto. I think it has application for some, particular in extreme cases of insulin resistance and has been shown to help with epileptics. It can also help those who struggle with sweets cravings although for both IR and cravings, they can be addressed often with the less drastic intervention of a low carb diet.
Keto works for you. Great. Just because it doesn't for others, it is inaccurate and insulting suggest they are "mentally hooked on carbs". The purpose of this thread was the presentation of a research summary on keto diets. It's neither for or against. Just data. Your need to come and proselytize and accuse those that don't agree with your choice of being addicted to carbs proves my point in an earlier post about keto fanaticism.
Keto is only one path and not even the best for many. I'm sure you will continue to believe what you do. So, help yourself. Your comments don't relate to the info posted as the topic of the thread. Just a defense against an attack that no one made on your sacred cow. I question whether you reviewed the chart in any detail and whether you clicked on the link to read the entire article.4 -
KarblessKreature wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ah. We're all hooked on carbs.
Well, like that old slogan... hooked on carbs worked for me!
It's interesting, and pertinent to the topic of the thread, that you're going to do CKD. Is this around some training goal? It would be in line with what the review is stating.
Yes we’re all hook on processed carbs!
Lol Exactly what I mean. You take one part of what I said with no regard to the whole. Plzs reread. I never said the study was *kitten*.
As for he CKD, I enjoy n=1 experiment trying to maximize my health and longevity. So I’m constantly running one on myself with regards to something. For myself I seem to have a high carb tolerance. But that’s for another thread.
You completely misunderstood me.
1. I don't really eat much in the way of anything processed. Most of my carbs are from vegetables, legumes, tubers and whole grains. Oh and dairy. I'm a vegetarian. I eat a lot of cottage cheese and Greek yogurt.
2. I was trying to bring the post back to topic and see if you had a training goal influencing your decision to try CKD.1 -
"I never said keto was the smart way" says the person who's called KarblessKreature who spends the rest of his post praising how awesome keto is and that carbs are like drugs.8
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KarblessKreature wrote: »Never said keto was the smart way. Thats how you, who probably doesn’t like keto, reacted to what I wrote. Reread it. And for low carb vs keto it’s a whole different ball game my friend. Like I did said you didn’t even give keto a proper try. Most processed carbs cause some type of inflammation in the body. Can’t fight the science. And like I said I will try anything that will better my long term health and do a proper n=1 on it. I was fine even flourishing on a carb based diet. Keto was an attempt to help my sciatica issue (from too much sports, injury in my 20’s and genetics it seems) wanting to lean out a bit and gain lean mass(~1# a month). Didn’t like going thru a bulking cycle and having to cut after ward. So a super slow bulk for me from now on. Worked wonders on those accounts and seem to be chugging along just fine. Like I said you dismissed keto cause your mentally hook on carbs, body treats them like a drug. You never even really tried keto and look down upon it. I’ll be switching to a CKD at around year mark after staring keto to see how that works for me. And I’m sure I’ll which ever works best I’ll stick with. But like I said do you. Later and pass the butter.
Stupid and a junkie. Nice!
:laugh:
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I must say, keto alleviating sciatica is a new one. Interested to know how a macro split helps a nerve compression issue.*
*I have sciatica. Losing weight so there's less load and improving fitness to stabilise the area are what helped it.4 -
Not against keto sure sounds like it. And Your Dr said almost. And also re read my post. Have a great day.
Interesting about the bolded above. I eat moderate carbs and, in my annual physical about a month ago, my doctor said my blood work and the general state of my health indicate pretty much a complete absence of inflammation.
FTR, I am neither pro nor anti keto. I think it has application for some, particular in extreme cases of insulin resistance and has been shown to help with epileptics. It can also help those who struggle with sweets cravings although for both IR and cravings, they can be addressed often with the less drastic intervention of a low carb diet.
Keto works for you. Great. Just because it doesn't for others, it is inaccurate and insulting suggest they are "mentally hooked on carbs". The purpose of this thread was the presentation of a research summary on keto diets. It's neither for or against. Just data. Your need to come and proselytize and accuse those that don't agree with your choice of being addicted to carbs proves my point in an earlier post about keto fanaticism.
Keto is only one path and not even the best for many. I'm sure you will continue to believe what you do. So, help yourself. Your comments don't relate to the info posted as the topic of the thread. Just a defense against an attack that no one made on your sacred cow. I question whether you reviewed the chart in any detail and whether you clicked on the link to read the entire article.9
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