Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Can you both desire to lose weight and be body positive?
Replies
-
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
RIGHT?! lol
I don't know about you but I am not a "victim" of "diet and weight loss culture".
seriously?
this post was from a site that was created to help people who have eating disorders...who are/were victims of diet and weight loss culture.
taken out of context sure it's not good but in context it makes total sense and is understandable...
Actually the article doesn't even mention eating disorders and is just about "body positivity".
excuse me?
https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/05/body-pos-definition-undebatable/ this link specifically talks about ED's and why the term was developed
The term “body positivity” was borne out of treatment for anorexia recovery in 1996, when a psychotherapist and a woman who had personal experience with an eating disorder founded thebodypositive.org.
and the other link mentions eating disorders 3x and how diet culture impacts them and how before and after pics can be poison to recovery.
That's not where the quote came from.
oh and love the phrase "these people" do you mean people with eating disorders?
nice...smh. *note sarcasm*
1 -
distinctlybeautiful wrote: »Regardless of whether y’all agree with what the movement stands for, the articles provide an answer to this thread’s original question from the standpoint of those within the body positive movement. No, weight loss and body positivity in its original form are not compatible; even more than that, they are mutually exclusive.
This is true, but only in it's original form. Like pretty much every term associated with weight loss or fitness as soon as it's defined people start redefining it to suit their own ideals.2 -
Duck_Puddle wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
RIGHT?! lol
I don't know about you but I am not a "victim" of "diet and weight loss culture".
seriously?
this post was from a site that was created to help people who have eating disorders...who are/were victims of diet and weight loss culture.
taken out of context sure it's not good but in context it makes total sense and is understandable...
I don't think that's true because a lot of the page that quote comes from talks about obesity and about the failure of dieting to end obesity in the long term. That would be a really strange and bizarre context for anorexics, don't you agree?
Agreed. I found a lot of that page to be incongruous with the posted definition of body positivity. We did a LOT of work on body positivity in my eating disorder treatment group and it was in line with the posted definition-creating a healthy non-weight/appearance driven relationship with your body. Since people in my group were at all places on the weight spectrum (and actually represented ALL the body types that body positivity is supposed to accept), there was talk about living and making healthy choices. I understand the dangers of “dieting” particularly in the context of eating disordered individuals. However, categorical chastisement of all weight loss (with no mention of weight gain) as being part of “diet culture” vs attempts to live a healthy life making healthy changes? I guess now I see how “body positivity” is interpreted as applying just to large ones.
Not all weight loss. Intentional weight loss.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »"Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. "
Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. Studies show that our health habits (balanced diet, fitness, not smoking, not drinking excessively, etc.) make more of an impact on our health and longevity than weight ever could. We can begin to work toward fitness and eating well at any weight. Weight loss may be associated with health improvements, but there are three problems with concluding that weight loss is the solution to health problems: 1. Studies that show this association rarely take into account the health habits that typically change when someone tries to lose weight, so we really don’t know if it is the weight loss itself OR the change in health habits that are affecting health. 2. We’ve seen from other studies that health improvements can be accomplished through change in health habits in the absence of weight loss (eg. Eating a more nutrient dense diet, exercising more, etc.), and 3. Since weight loss is typically short term, any improvements made to health based on weight loss alone may end up being short term as well.
taken out of context...here is the complete paragraph.
"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
This is the original quote you were arguing with.1 -
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »distinctlybeautiful wrote: »These articles are worth reading in their entirety. I’ve put an excerpt of each below each link.
https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/05/body-pos-definition-undebatable/
Body Positivity Actually Has a Specific Definition
Once upon a time, the phrase “body positive” had a specific meaning – one that signaled to the reader that the content with which they were about to engage was (at least going to attempt) to not be oppressive, harmful, or triggering.
The term “body positivity” was borne out of treatment for anorexia recovery in 1996, when a psychotherapist and a woman who had personal experience with an eating disorder founded thebodypositive.org.
The methodology and messaging behind their lectures, workshops, and other resources all centered on messaging about reducing focus on changing body weight through disordered eating and exercise.
In fact, the first of the core competencies of body positivity is to learn how to “ncover the messages that have influenced your relationships with your body, food, and exercise [and d]evelop a weight-neutral, health-centered approach to self-care [to b]ecome the authority of your own body by sorting out facts from distorted societal myths about health, weight, and identity.”
https://daretonotdiet.wordpress.com/2017/01/30/is-weight-loss-body-positive/
Is actively trying to lose weight a body positive act?
This is where it gets complicated.
and/or unhealthy. Diet and weight loss culture simply does not respect the broad diversity of body weights and sizes that exist.Diet and weight loss culture is not body positive because it is rooted in the belief that fat bodies, bodies that do not conform to the very narrow beauty standards (thin, white, able-bodied, cis-gendered), are wrong, unattractive
http://www.bodyposipanda.com/2016/04/stop-showing-me-your-beforeafter-weight.html?m=1
So I'm asking people, please, think twice before you bring your weight loss talk or your before/after pictures into the body positive community. Not only for those of us who've come through EDs and can be seriously triggered by diet culture, but for everyone who's finally found a safe place away from all that crap. There are millions of communities, pages, and places online where your weight loss will be celebrated beyond measure, where you'll be hailed as a fitspo queen and dubbed a loyal disciple to the deity of dieting. Let those of us who've been damaged from our belief in that deity have this safe space. Stop watering it down to fit your weight loss agenda. Body positivity was started as an underground punk movement, with fat acceptance and radical self love as its main aim (people actually stormed into diet meetings and demanded the group leaders defend their cult-like techniques in the face of all the research that says dieting doesn't work and is harmful, pretty badass huh?). So please, do whatever you want with your body, but understand the culture that you're buying into, and the people who never want to be a part of it again.
(I don’t know why some of this came out underlined. None of it was underlined in the articles or in my response before I posted.)
All of this is dangerous thinking. These people are triggered by anything.
i don't see anything dangerous about this:“uncover the messages that have influenced your relationships with your body, food, and exercise [and d]evelop a weight-neutral, health-centered approach to self-care [to b]ecome the authority of your own body by sorting out facts from distorted societal myths about health, weight, and identity.”
particularly the bolded.
and i can see good intentions in the second as well, although, i don't agree with separating the aesthetics from concerns about health entirely. i do agree thatDiet and weight loss culture is not body positive because it is rooted in the belief that fat bodies, bodies that do not conform to the very narrow beauty standards (thin, white, able-bodied, cis-gendered), are wrong, (and) unattractive
but divorcing weight from health entirely is problematic for reasons discussed at length above.
the third is certainly a misunderstanding of punk and of self love.
i would posit, though, that any 'movement' is going to have proponents who range from kind of middle ground to totally fringe and who stray from the original intent and core values of the cause. i would also argue that those kind of responses are going to get more attention than the less sensational aspects and skew perceptions about it as a whole. i see that a lot on these boards where body positivism is mentioned. what i see in practice (in my community) is more of a openness to celebrating people who just look different, however that manifests.
the way i understand it (not an expert), at its core, body positivity is pushing back against a narrow representation of beauty which has been centered on thinness (among other criteria) for a while. some people do feel pressure to look 'a certain way' and that pressure can lead to harmful self image and behaviors. it won't for everyone, and not everyone will benefit from the idea that you can separate your worth from your weight, as many have mentioned here, some shame can be motivating, just as some acceptance and self love can motivate others.
ok, did i win the award for most parentheticals yet?
5 -
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
RIGHT?! lol
I don't know about you but I am not a "victim" of "diet and weight loss culture".
seriously?
this post was from a site that was created to help people who have eating disorders...who are/were victims of diet and weight loss culture.
taken out of context sure it's not good but in context it makes total sense and is understandable...
Actually the article doesn't even mention eating disorders and is just about "body positivity".
excuse me?
https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/05/body-pos-definition-undebatable/ this link specifically talks about ED's and why the term was developed
The term “body positivity” was borne out of treatment for anorexia recovery in 1996, when a psychotherapist and a woman who had personal experience with an eating disorder founded thebodypositive.org.
and the other link mentions eating disorders 3x and how diet culture impacts them and how before and after pics can be poison to recovery.
That's not where the quote came from.
oh and love the phrase "these people" do you mean people with eating disorders?
nice...smh. *note sarcasm*
Who said "these people"?0 -
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. "
Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. Studies show that our health habits (balanced diet, fitness, not smoking, not drinking excessively, etc.) make more of an impact on our health and longevity than weight ever could. We can begin to work toward fitness and eating well at any weight. Weight loss may be associated with health improvements, but there are three problems with concluding that weight loss is the solution to health problems: 1. Studies that show this association rarely take into account the health habits that typically change when someone tries to lose weight, so we really don’t know if it is the weight loss itself OR the change in health habits that are affecting health. 2. We’ve seen from other studies that health improvements can be accomplished through change in health habits in the absence of weight loss (eg. Eating a more nutrient dense diet, exercising more, etc.), and 3. Since weight loss is typically short term, any improvements made to health based on weight loss alone may end up being short term as well.
taken out of context...here is the complete paragraph.
"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
This is the original quote you were arguing with.
with you maybe...but the one above is out of context too...
ps diet and weight loss culture as it can be defined is often rooted in the insecurities of people due to social media and society. Why do you think the "diet industry" is a multi billion dollar industry...
and don't tell me those who are doing teas and wraps etc and spending 1000$'s and 1000s of dollars on diets are not victims of society.0 -
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
RIGHT?! lol
I don't know about you but I am not a "victim" of "diet and weight loss culture".
seriously?
this post was from a site that was created to help people who have eating disorders...who are/were victims of diet and weight loss culture.
taken out of context sure it's not good but in context it makes total sense and is understandable...
Actually the article doesn't even mention eating disorders and is just about "body positivity".
excuse me?
https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/05/body-pos-definition-undebatable/ this link specifically talks about ED's and why the term was developed
The term “body positivity” was borne out of treatment for anorexia recovery in 1996, when a psychotherapist and a woman who had personal experience with an eating disorder founded thebodypositive.org.
and the other link mentions eating disorders 3x and how diet culture impacts them and how before and after pics can be poison to recovery.
That's not where the quote came from.
oh and love the phrase "these people" do you mean people with eating disorders?
nice...smh. *note sarcasm*
Who said "these people"?
you did0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »distinctlybeautiful wrote: »Regardless of whether y’all agree with what the movement stands for, the articles provide an answer to this thread’s original question from the standpoint of those within the body positive movement. No, weight loss and body positivity in its original form are not compatible; even more than that, they are mutually exclusive.
This is true, but only in it's original form. Like pretty much every term associated with weight loss or fitness as soon as it's defined people start redefining it to suit their own ideals.
Of course, and that’s mainstream body positivity which has come to mean simply being positive about one’s body. There are, however, much less known and much less understood communities that work really hard to create a safe space away from diet culture, and I think their views are just as valid and are worth being heard in response to this question as well.2 -
You can do whatever you want to do0
-
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. "
Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. Studies show that our health habits (balanced diet, fitness, not smoking, not drinking excessively, etc.) make more of an impact on our health and longevity than weight ever could. We can begin to work toward fitness and eating well at any weight. Weight loss may be associated with health improvements, but there are three problems with concluding that weight loss is the solution to health problems: 1. Studies that show this association rarely take into account the health habits that typically change when someone tries to lose weight, so we really don’t know if it is the weight loss itself OR the change in health habits that are affecting health. 2. We’ve seen from other studies that health improvements can be accomplished through change in health habits in the absence of weight loss (eg. Eating a more nutrient dense diet, exercising more, etc.), and 3. Since weight loss is typically short term, any improvements made to health based on weight loss alone may end up being short term as well.
taken out of context...here is the complete paragraph.
"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
This is the original quote you were arguing with.
with you maybe...but the one above is out of context too...
ps diet and weight loss culture as it can be defined is often rooted in the insecurities of people due to social media and society. Why do you think the "diet industry" is a multi billion dollar industry...
and don't tell me those who are doing teas and wraps etc and spending 1000$'s and 1000s of dollars on diets are not victims of society.
Sure. People spending thousands of dollars on "diets and wraps, teas, etc." are victims. Victims of their own stupidity.0 -
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
RIGHT?! lol
I don't know about you but I am not a "victim" of "diet and weight loss culture".
seriously?
this post was from a site that was created to help people who have eating disorders...who are/were victims of diet and weight loss culture.
taken out of context sure it's not good but in context it makes total sense and is understandable...
Actually the article doesn't even mention eating disorders and is just about "body positivity".
excuse me?
https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/05/body-pos-definition-undebatable/ this link specifically talks about ED's and why the term was developed
The term “body positivity” was borne out of treatment for anorexia recovery in 1996, when a psychotherapist and a woman who had personal experience with an eating disorder founded thebodypositive.org.
and the other link mentions eating disorders 3x and how diet culture impacts them and how before and after pics can be poison to recovery.
That's not where the quote came from.
oh and love the phrase "these people" do you mean people with eating disorders?
nice...smh. *note sarcasm*
Who said "these people"?
you did
Actually I didn't LOL not even a little bit.2 -
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. "
Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. Studies show that our health habits (balanced diet, fitness, not smoking, not drinking excessively, etc.) make more of an impact on our health and longevity than weight ever could. We can begin to work toward fitness and eating well at any weight. Weight loss may be associated with health improvements, but there are three problems with concluding that weight loss is the solution to health problems: 1. Studies that show this association rarely take into account the health habits that typically change when someone tries to lose weight, so we really don’t know if it is the weight loss itself OR the change in health habits that are affecting health. 2. We’ve seen from other studies that health improvements can be accomplished through change in health habits in the absence of weight loss (eg. Eating a more nutrient dense diet, exercising more, etc.), and 3. Since weight loss is typically short term, any improvements made to health based on weight loss alone may end up being short term as well.
taken out of context...here is the complete paragraph.
"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
This is the original quote you were arguing with.
with you maybe...but the one above is out of context too...
ps diet and weight loss culture as it can be defined is often rooted in the insecurities of people due to social media and society. Why do you think the "diet industry" is a multi billion dollar industry...
and don't tell me those who are doing teas and wraps etc and spending 1000$'s and 1000s of dollars on diets are not victims of society.
Sure. People spending thousands of dollars on "diets and wraps, teas, etc." are victims. Victims of their own stupidity.
hmmm interesting...
so tell us then...why are you here losing weight?
what made you want to lose weight?
how many times have you tried and failed
or tried only to gain it back?
how much money have you spent on
pills or special diets or shakes etc?
or did you come out of your mamma smart about all things food/health and nutrition related only to choose to gain over 70lbs above your healthy weight then turn around to lose it because you knew you should.5 -
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
RIGHT?! lol
I don't know about you but I am not a "victim" of "diet and weight loss culture".
seriously?
this post was from a site that was created to help people who have eating disorders...who are/were victims of diet and weight loss culture.
taken out of context sure it's not good but in context it makes total sense and is understandable...
Actually the article doesn't even mention eating disorders and is just about "body positivity".
excuse me?
https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/05/body-pos-definition-undebatable/ this link specifically talks about ED's and why the term was developed
The term “body positivity” was borne out of treatment for anorexia recovery in 1996, when a psychotherapist and a woman who had personal experience with an eating disorder founded thebodypositive.org.
and the other link mentions eating disorders 3x and how diet culture impacts them and how before and after pics can be poison to recovery.
That's not where the quote came from.
oh and love the phrase "these people" do you mean people with eating disorders?
nice...smh. *note sarcasm*
Who said "these people"?
you did
Actually I didn't LOL not even a little bit.
actually did a whole big bunch...
3 -
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
RIGHT?! lol
I don't know about you but I am not a "victim" of "diet and weight loss culture".
seriously?
this post was from a site that was created to help people who have eating disorders...who are/were victims of diet and weight loss culture.
taken out of context sure it's not good but in context it makes total sense and is understandable...
Actually the article doesn't even mention eating disorders and is just about "body positivity".
excuse me?
https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/05/body-pos-definition-undebatable/ this link specifically talks about ED's and why the term was developed
The term “body positivity” was borne out of treatment for anorexia recovery in 1996, when a psychotherapist and a woman who had personal experience with an eating disorder founded thebodypositive.org.
and the other link mentions eating disorders 3x and how diet culture impacts them and how before and after pics can be poison to recovery.
That's not where the quote came from.
oh and love the phrase "these people" do you mean people with eating disorders?
nice...smh. *note sarcasm*
Who said "these people"?
you did
Actually I didn't LOL not even a little bit.
actually did a whole big bunch...
Oh wow. Okay I meant "these people" as in people who believe in this crap LOL0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »"Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. "
Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. Studies show that our health habits (balanced diet, fitness, not smoking, not drinking excessively, etc.) make more of an impact on our health and longevity than weight ever could. We can begin to work toward fitness and eating well at any weight. Weight loss may be associated with health improvements, but there are three problems with concluding that weight loss is the solution to health problems: 1. Studies that show this association rarely take into account the health habits that typically change when someone tries to lose weight, so we really don’t know if it is the weight loss itself OR the change in health habits that are affecting health. 2. We’ve seen from other studies that health improvements can be accomplished through change in health habits in the absence of weight loss (eg. Eating a more nutrient dense diet, exercising more, etc.), and 3. Since weight loss is typically short term, any improvements made to health based on weight loss alone may end up being short term as well.
taken out of context...here is the complete paragraph.
Do you agree that "Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary?"2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »It doesn't bother me if fat people are happy.
That's my sentiment as well. I was a happy fat person, I'm still a happy (less) fat person. I didn't lose weight because I hated being fat, I just happened to need it and I didn't like myself any less then than I do now. Even if someone decides they hate carrying extra weight, that's different from hating themselves. I like some things about being fat more, and I like many things about being less fat, but we're talking about things, not me as a person. How I like myself hasn't changed.
When I was morbidly obese, I wasn't deluded thinking that my health prospects as a fat person were just as good as normal weight person. I knew the risks and to me they were worth what I was getting out of being fat, until they weren't. If others are happy being fat, they at least need to be aware of the risks and be in a position to make their own decisions based on facts, not sensationalism.
While I'm body positive and accepted my fat self just fine, I just can't associate myself with the fat acceptance and body positivity movement. Too much drama and all kinds of trendy rage porn fuel, tapping into all things controversial. Not my scene.6 -
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. "
Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. Studies show that our health habits (balanced diet, fitness, not smoking, not drinking excessively, etc.) make more of an impact on our health and longevity than weight ever could. We can begin to work toward fitness and eating well at any weight. Weight loss may be associated with health improvements, but there are three problems with concluding that weight loss is the solution to health problems: 1. Studies that show this association rarely take into account the health habits that typically change when someone tries to lose weight, so we really don’t know if it is the weight loss itself OR the change in health habits that are affecting health. 2. We’ve seen from other studies that health improvements can be accomplished through change in health habits in the absence of weight loss (eg. Eating a more nutrient dense diet, exercising more, etc.), and 3. Since weight loss is typically short term, any improvements made to health based on weight loss alone may end up being short term as well.
taken out of context...here is the complete paragraph.
"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
This is the original quote you were arguing with.
with you maybe...but the one above is out of context too...
ps diet and weight loss culture as it can be defined is often rooted in the insecurities of people due to social media and society. Why do you think the "diet industry" is a multi billion dollar industry...
and don't tell me those who are doing teas and wraps etc and spending 1000$'s and 1000s of dollars on diets are not victims of society.
Sure. People spending thousands of dollars on "diets and wraps, teas, etc." are victims. Victims of their own stupidity.
hmmm interesting...
so tell us then...why are you here losing weight?
what made you want to lose weight?
how many times have you tried and failed
or tried only to gain it back?
how much money have you spent on
pills or special diets or shakes etc?
or did you come out of your mamma smart about all things food/health and nutrition related only to choose to gain over 70lbs above your healthy weight then turn around to lose it because you knew you should.
so tell us then...why are you here losing weight? - Because I was obese and unhealthy.
what made you want to lose weight? - Being obese and unhealthy.
how many times have you tried and failed - Never.
or tried only to gain it back? - Never?
how much money have you spent on - No money.
pills or special diets or shakes etc? - None.
I gained over 90lbs by consuming more calories then I was burning. After I had my daughter I let myself go.
Anymore questions for me?
If people did the research they would learn about counting calories and not spend thousands of dollars on unnecessary "weight-loss magic pills".
1 -
Weight loss for health is totally unnecessary? Please. I don't see many obese 80 year olds. Or any, that's just a fact. No study needed, just go to any retirement home and look around you. Not a single one over 75 even is obese.
I hate it when people who are really obese or heavily overweight start going on about body positivity. Yes, love your body, but in order to do that you need to take care of your body. You wouldn't say you love your child and then say that loving that child is enough. You have to actually take care of the child, or else you don't really love it.
It's not about six pack abs and buns of steel in these cases. It's about joints that don't hurt, organs that aren't being crushed by fat so they can work effectively (heart, liver ect.) It's about being able to do things that bring joy, like walking around with your kids or friends all day, hiking in the forest, swimming in a lake or ocean. It's being able to keep that body for a few more years even.
Yes, love your body. But realize that when you love something, you take care of it.5 -
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
RIGHT?! lol
I don't know about you but I am not a "victim" of "diet and weight loss culture".
seriously?
this post was from a site that was created to help people who have eating disorders...who are/were victims of diet and weight loss culture.
taken out of context sure it's not good but in context it makes total sense and is understandable...
Actually the article doesn't even mention eating disorders and is just about "body positivity".
excuse me?
https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/05/body-pos-definition-undebatable/ this link specifically talks about ED's and why the term was developed
The term “body positivity” was borne out of treatment for anorexia recovery in 1996, when a psychotherapist and a woman who had personal experience with an eating disorder founded thebodypositive.org.
and the other link mentions eating disorders 3x and how diet culture impacts them and how before and after pics can be poison to recovery.
That's not where the quote came from.
oh and love the phrase "these people" do you mean people with eating disorders?
nice...smh. *note sarcasm*
You were just complaining about taking what boogers say at face value, because you said this was being taken out of context. For complete thoughts that stood on their own. We're not allowed to have thoughts about these things without posting the whole article.
But you don't mind taking two words @eliciaobrien1 wrote and running with them?2 -
LiveLoveFitFab wrote: »Weight loss for health is totally unnecessary? Please. I don't see many obese 80 year olds. Or any, that's just a fact. No study needed, just go to any retirement home and look around you. Not a single one over 75 even is obese.
I see this posted on this site all the time and I wonder where these people live. I know at least a dozen obese people over age 75 who are obese. In fact, I know more obese people in that age group than at a normal weight. They aren't healthy, but most aren't invalids either.4 -
Is it oversimplifying it to just answer like this?
If being body-positive means you like yourself then yes you can want to lose weight and simultaneously be body-positive. Because your Self is not somehow the same thing as your body.
If being body-positive means you like your body then no you cannot want to lose weight and simultaneously be body-positive. Because if you want to change your body it means you aren't fully satisfied with your body.
I think you can be happy with yourself while simultaneously being unhappy with your body. On top of that I think there is nothing wrong with that and that doesn't somehow make you a self-loathing person. Dislike of something is often the catalyst for positive change. Admitting their are things about your body you would like to see change is really the first step in setting forth on either weight loss or fitness. Nothing wrong with that.2 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »If being body-positive means you like your body then no you cannot want to lose weight and simultaneously be body-positive. Because if you want to change your body it means you aren't fully satisfied with your body.
Not sure I agree with this. Liking your body and not being 'fully satisifed' with your body are not the same things. I liked my body when I was overweight. I carry weight well so didn't look too bad, I was strong, fit, healthy. But I wasn't fully satisfied with my body. I'm not sure I'd say I've ever been fully satisfied with my body. If given a magic wand I could always find some little flaw to correct. But I've always liked my body (except maybe for a couple of angst filled teenage years).3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »
If being body-positive means you like your body then no you cannot want to lose weight and simultaneously be body-positive. Because if you want to change your body it means you aren't fully satisfied with your body.
I find this bit the hardest to explain because it's more of an experience that's hard to put into words, but I liked my body because it was MY body. It didn't matter to me what it looked like, but it looked good to me. It was just... mine. When you really like something you find the silliest things "adorable". The decision to change it came from the outside in my case, but because my body still felt "mine and I love it", I found myself admiring other "adorable" bits when the old ones changed, and the bits I don't like, I don't like lovingly, like you would a beloved ugly puppy. Yep, hard to explain. I don't believe there exists a person who is 100% fully satisfied with their body, so that kind of body positivity is nothing more than a thought experiment.1 -
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
RIGHT?! lol
I don't know about you but I am not a "victim" of "diet and weight loss culture".
seriously?
this post was from a site that was created to help people who have eating disorders...who are/were victims of diet and weight loss culture.
taken out of context sure it's not good but in context it makes total sense and is understandable...
Actually the article doesn't even mention eating disorders and is just about "body positivity".
excuse me?
https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/05/body-pos-definition-undebatable/ this link specifically talks about ED's and why the term was developed
The term “body positivity” was borne out of treatment for anorexia recovery in 1996, when a psychotherapist and a woman who had personal experience with an eating disorder founded thebodypositive.org.
and the other link mentions eating disorders 3x and how diet culture impacts them and how before and after pics can be poison to recovery.
That's not where the quote came from.
oh and love the phrase "these people" do you mean people with eating disorders?
nice...smh. *note sarcasm*
Who said "these people"?
you did
Actually I didn't LOL not even a little bit.
actually did a whole big bunch...
Oh wow. Okay I meant "these people" as in people who believe in this crap LOL
really because what you said was "these people are triggered by anything" which is a word used in the article discussing how weight loss comparisons can "trigger" people with ED.
but you denied it so...interesting0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
RIGHT?! lol
I don't know about you but I am not a "victim" of "diet and weight loss culture".
seriously?
this post was from a site that was created to help people who have eating disorders...who are/were victims of diet and weight loss culture.
taken out of context sure it's not good but in context it makes total sense and is understandable...
Actually the article doesn't even mention eating disorders and is just about "body positivity".
excuse me?
https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/05/body-pos-definition-undebatable/ this link specifically talks about ED's and why the term was developed
The term “body positivity” was borne out of treatment for anorexia recovery in 1996, when a psychotherapist and a woman who had personal experience with an eating disorder founded thebodypositive.org.
and the other link mentions eating disorders 3x and how diet culture impacts them and how before and after pics can be poison to recovery.
That's not where the quote came from.
oh and love the phrase "these people" do you mean people with eating disorders?
nice...smh. *note sarcasm*
You were just complaining about taking what boogers say at face value, because you said this was being taken out of context. For complete thoughts that stood on their own. We're not allowed to have thoughts about these things without posting the whole article.
But you don't mind taking two words @eliciaobrien1 wrote and running with them?
is there a difference between taking the first sentence of a paragraph without the rest of the discussion and posting it versus taking 2 words out of a sentence and asking what was meant by it (considering trigger was reference to people with ED's) absolutely....
and then to have her deny saying them as it now looks so bad...lol.
3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »If being body-positive means you like your body then no you cannot want to lose weight and simultaneously be body-positive. Because if you want to change your body it means you aren't fully satisfied with your body.
Not sure I agree with this. Liking your body and not being 'fully satisifed' with your body are not the same things. I liked my body when I was overweight. I carry weight well so didn't look too bad, I was strong, fit, healthy. But I wasn't fully satisfied with my body. I'm not sure I'd say I've ever been fully satisfied with my body. If given a magic wand I could always find some little flaw to correct. But I've always liked my body (except maybe for a couple of angst filled teenage years).
Eh I mean we could get into a semantic argument about what "like" means but do we really want to do that?
Personally the way I am using it means if I "like" something I don't want to change it. If I want to change it then I don't "like" it. If you think that "like" is a weaker word than that then substitute in stronger word of your choice. "Love" maybe.1 -
for me body positivity means that every choice I make about my body, whether to remain the same, or change in some manner, comes from a place of self-love and encouragement instead of negativity and self-loathing. I started losing weight and having success in it when I shifted my thinking from "I hate being fat, low energy, and dreading stairs" to "I can be more comfortable and more able in my body, and I can do what it takes to get there." For me, body positivity refers to the attitude adjustment that puts me in a place where I can take control over my body - either own it the way it is or work on it. But I have trouble with 'fat acceptance' - body positivity is me being positive towards my body whereas fat acceptance preachers really are demanding that other people see them as they claim to see themselves. I consciously practice changing my thoughts when I catch myself judging by appearance, but fat acceptance is not just the issue of not judging by outward appearance...we know health risks are real, and I don't believe I'm loving someone I care for in this situation if I agree to turn a blind eye. I am afraid that there are real consequences to "fat acceptance"....and being cognizant of consequences is seemingly anathema to the fat acceptance movement.2
-
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. "
Weight loss for health is wholly unnecessary. Studies show that our health habits (balanced diet, fitness, not smoking, not drinking excessively, etc.) make more of an impact on our health and longevity than weight ever could. We can begin to work toward fitness and eating well at any weight. Weight loss may be associated with health improvements, but there are three problems with concluding that weight loss is the solution to health problems: 1. Studies that show this association rarely take into account the health habits that typically change when someone tries to lose weight, so we really don’t know if it is the weight loss itself OR the change in health habits that are affecting health. 2. We’ve seen from other studies that health improvements can be accomplished through change in health habits in the absence of weight loss (eg. Eating a more nutrient dense diet, exercising more, etc.), and 3. Since weight loss is typically short term, any improvements made to health based on weight loss alone may end up being short term as well.
taken out of context...here is the complete paragraph.
"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
This is the original quote you were arguing with.
with you maybe...but the one above is out of context too...
ps diet and weight loss culture as it can be defined is often rooted in the insecurities of people due to social media and society. Why do you think the "diet industry" is a multi billion dollar industry...
and don't tell me those who are doing teas and wraps etc and spending 1000$'s and 1000s of dollars on diets are not victims of society.
Sure. People spending thousands of dollars on "diets and wraps, teas, etc." are victims. Victims of their own stupidity.
hmmm interesting...
so tell us then...why are you here losing weight?
what made you want to lose weight?
how many times have you tried and failed
or tried only to gain it back?
how much money have you spent on
pills or special diets or shakes etc?
or did you come out of your mamma smart about all things food/health and nutrition related only to choose to gain over 70lbs above your healthy weight then turn around to lose it because you knew you should.
so tell us then...why are you here losing weight? - Because I was obese and unhealthy.
what made you want to lose weight? - Being obese and unhealthy.
how many times have you tried and failed - Never.
or tried only to gain it back? - Never?
how much money have you spent on - No money.
pills or special diets or shakes etc? - None.
I gained over 90lbs by consuming more calories then I was burning. After I had my daughter I let myself go.
Anymore questions for me?
If people did the research they would learn about counting calories and not spend thousands of dollars on unnecessary "weight-loss magic pills".
if people could do research I am sure they would to....but you can't say that those that can't do the research (either due to lack of education/intelligence/funds/equipment can be victims to society.
esp when the person telling you is a doctor or a "certified nutritionist" or a certified personal trainer...I mean when I asked my GP about eggs she told me not to eat them as they were bad...
and at your age I do hope this is the first/last and only time you do this ...but I don't expect so.
as for any further questions nope...not at this point in time...maybe in a year or two....2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »eliciaobrien1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »"Please know that I never blame or judge those who participate in diet and weight loss culture. They are victims of a society that profits from their insecurities."
RIGHT?! lol
I don't know about you but I am not a "victim" of "diet and weight loss culture".
seriously?
this post was from a site that was created to help people who have eating disorders...who are/were victims of diet and weight loss culture.
taken out of context sure it's not good but in context it makes total sense and is understandable...
Actually the article doesn't even mention eating disorders and is just about "body positivity".
excuse me?
https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/05/body-pos-definition-undebatable/ this link specifically talks about ED's and why the term was developed
The term “body positivity” was borne out of treatment for anorexia recovery in 1996, when a psychotherapist and a woman who had personal experience with an eating disorder founded thebodypositive.org.
and the other link mentions eating disorders 3x and how diet culture impacts them and how before and after pics can be poison to recovery.
That's not where the quote came from.
oh and love the phrase "these people" do you mean people with eating disorders?
nice...smh. *note sarcasm*
You were just complaining about taking what boogers say at face value, because you said this was being taken out of context. For complete thoughts that stood on their own. We're not allowed to have thoughts about these things without posting the whole article.
But you don't mind taking two words @eliciaobrien1 wrote and running with them?
is there a difference between taking the first sentence of a paragraph without the rest of the discussion and posting it versus taking 2 words out of a sentence and asking what was meant by it (considering trigger was reference to people with ED's) absolutely....
and then to have her deny saying them as it now looks so bad...lol.
LOL When I said "these people" I didn't mean people with ED's. That's it. You can't tell me I meant something I didn't.1
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions