Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories
Replies
-
WinoGelato wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »In another forum, there is a lady who says she was clinically diagnosed with BED. She does OMAD (one meal a day) and now claims that she has much more control now and can walk away from food even if it is in here hands. She may not be cured, but she sure sounds like she is in a much better place. I don't know much at all about BED but wouldn't there be varying levels of it. From like what was described on the previous page (very excessive) to maybe less excessive. I think alcoholism comes in varying degrees, why not BED?
@blambo61
Everyone's level of control would be different.
As I said there are times when I can go weeks or months with no issues with help from the meds.
The problem is here that there is claims of complete resolve and it's "cured". Which even with the best control does not happen.
Maybe these people didn't cure their issues but they seem to be controlling it and without meds so that is a good thing I think. I think they should be given some credit and their methods be considered.
Do you understand that by Gale comparing a desire to eat a banana split after dinner to what Kriss described is not just sharing common experiences and ideas of what might work for others? It trivializes the experiences and struggles that people who suffer from actual eating disorders are going through, potentially prevents someone who has an ED from finding the help they need as soon as possible, and this tendency to self diagnose and try to inflate the severity of "cravings" or "control issues" to legitimate ED status makes it potentially difficult for people to recognize the actual symptoms of clinical eating disorders.
Gale does not have Binge Eating Disorder and his continued claims of it are offensive, as are your support of his stance on this. If a friend of yours used a racial slur that you were unfamiliar with, and someone told you what it meant and that it was offensive, would you use it yourself in further conversation, or continue to support your friend in using that term? Saying "well maybe they mean it in a different way, so you shouldn't be offended by that"? That's the same as what you are doing here. It's ok to just say "wow, I had no idea, thanks for sharing that experience Kriss, I can now empathize with how hard that must be and you're brave to share those details". You don't have to continue to try to find ways to legitimize Gales stance.
Cosigned!
Likewise.
People on MFP occasionally use the word binge in a casual way, to describe a significant overeating episode involving lack of self control (not compulsion). That's not in line with the clinical definition. We might give them a pass, because it's casual, and they maybe don't know.
Here, we have a clear description of what BED is, with affecting graphic detail about how that feels from the inside . . . and some self-diagnosing person -who's just described behavior in some detail that sounds like normal overeating because of normal lack of self control - says "me too" and tops that with "try my miracle cure".
Inappropriate. Beyond the pale. Indefensible.14 -
Also cosigned by me.
And thank you @HellYeahItsKriss for being brave enough to share those details. If my memory was better I could share what I would go through at the height of bulimia, when I was binging and purging up to 5-6 times a day. Or more recent binges, in the thousands of calories in the space of a couple of hours. Certainly not just 'oh hey, I'll stop for a banana split even though I just had dinner'. Yeah, that's called dessert.
And no, it never goes away. I have relapsed with bulimia and severe restriction (I'm talking eating maybe a few hundred calories a day max for weeks on end) more times than I care to count. I know my ED triggers, I am hyper conscious of them, doesn't mean it's not going to bite me in the *kitten* again one day. It is so, so easy for me to fall down that rabbit hole.10 -
Gale, did you ever cry as you ate that banana split, hating yourself more and more with every mouthful? Did you ever cry in a nightclub powder room because you had gained a kilo? Were you ever too damn scared to eat at all because it would trigger another binge?
THAT'S the reality of living with an eating disorder.14 -
To add to that..
Have you ever binged for so long that you became full of fear and anxiety about not being able to stop that you packed up all your food into garbage bags, Right down to the condiments and threw everything out into the dumpster outside in an attempt to stop eating.. only to just go to the store hours later when you kept going to the kitchen hoping that maybe you missed something and buying enough food for probably 2 days only to eat it in one meal?
I've done this several times. The first time I threw out two deep freezers worth of food. Everything in my fridge and small top freezer and everything in my cupboards. Hundreds and hundreds of dollars gone out of complete desperation to just stop only to fail. I just went out and bought more food cause I have money and a grocery store 5 min from my apt and my brain switched from fear and desperation right back to compulsion to eat.
There was no calm. Just one *kitten* storm followed by another *kitten* storm only to circle back into the other *kitten* storm.7 -
2
-
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.
I would call a 40 year eating disorder a life-long struggle personally based on my own experience now that it is currently resolved.
No. And you are completely dancing around the rest of the things that I said go hand in hand with an actual eating disorder.
Just because someone struggles for 40 years does not make it an eating disorder.
Eating disorders do not get resolved.
Let me repeat this like a broken record...
Eating disorders do not get resolved.
The reason they don't is because it is an actual psychological problem. There is always struggle every day even with treatment. There is no resolve. None. Ever.
Kind of a hopeless view for those you speak about. Did you ever read about the food induced psychological problems leading to the Salem witch trials?
greenmedinfo.com/blog/were-salem-witch-trials-spurred-food-poisoning
JFC7 -
pumasareace wrote: »
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.
You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didnt get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
Can I suggest you read up on basic high school biology.
Any carbohydrate (sugar) creates an insulin response which triggers the body to utilise sugar for energy and any excess is converted to fat, especially if the glycogen stores on the body are full. This means that the energy from carbs is short lived and hunger strikes again fairly quickly thus over-eating is likely, especially when consuming simple carbs like sucrose.
Excess fat can be stored on the body, however when the body is used to a high macro ratio of fat it will oxidise this fat as energy over sugar as it is a steady and easily available energy source, meaning it leaves the body. Eating a high fat diet is energy intensive on the body and requires energy to break the fat down for energy meaning that you feel satiated for longer as fat is broken down in the stomach (smaller fat molecules) and in the gut where it is then absorbed by the body, as much longer process than sugar. Carbs, as soon as they touch your saliva are starting to be broken down and is generally absorbed from the stomach.
Google Amylase, Protease and Lipase.
Sugar = Insulin = Fat storage, its the entire reason why a low carb diet works...
Suggests someone read up on basic biology, then proceeds to get biology incorrect?
Yep, that's about right for MFP.
It's like someone trying to use ballistic physics in a vacuum to show how/why rubber tires roll on asphalt.11 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »@GaleHawkins
Let me describe for you what eating with an eating disorder really looks like.
Here are just some of the things I would consume within a meal or over a 12 hour period.
Ready?
32 bbq sized hotdogs with buns and condiments in 12 hours.
2 extra large meat lovers pizzas with 2 large bags of Hershey chocolate covered whole almonds in 12 hours.
Entire boxes of 500g spaghetti with 6-8 slices of bread in one meal.
3 double big mac meals with super sized fries 2 with cola drinks and 1 with a large chocolate shake in one meal.
12 chicken thighs with skin and 3-4 large russet potatoes in one meal.
2 entire bags of chocolate donut holes in one sitting.
3 large sized donairs that come with about 1/2 a pound of medium ground beef on each and I would ask for extra meat on all of them in one sitting.
If I ordered Chinese food I would order enough food for 4 people. It would cost me roughly $80 and I would eat it in 12 hours.
A lot of these 12 hour meals were also filled in between with food from work. I would eat 8-10 slices of toast in the morning. If bacon was on I would make bacon sandwiches instead. I was always eating several servings of whatever dessert was on. There was cookies and pudding under the counter so I had access to those whenever I wanted. I would eat whatever was not served to the clients at lunch and dinner as well. Every morning I would also buy a bag of chips and a chocolate bar from the vending machine. I also brought my own lunch and snacks. And I would still go home and eat again.
I would also eat two entire rotisserie chicken from the grocery store with 6 slices of bread and canned peas.
When food got low I was known to pour bottles of salad dressing into bowls and eat it with my finger before just drinking it.
I would eat half tubs of ice cream. Crushed with half a pack of Oreos. Whipped cream.
I would make pancakes with banana. Syrup. Ice cream. Chocolate chips. Whipped cream. And got fudge and eat several servings at a time.
I would buy 5 or 6 bags of chocolate chips pour them into a bowl and eat them constantly through the day in between all my other eating.
This is what binge eating looks like. It's excessive amounts of food at one time or through a day. It's not a meal at dairy queen and a banana split. I'm sorry.
Edit -- also on Canada day I went to a friend's party and ate 8 burgers and 7 hot dogs and an entire bag of family sized potato chips and then went to McDonald's and ordered a double big mac meal another double big mac and a chocolate sundae within 3 to 5 hours time.
Thanks for the details that lets me know for sure I did have an eating disorder if you had one like you stated above. It makes me weak and sick feeling just being reminded of when I ate that way. While I did not go LCHF to help stop binge eating health damage I am glad it did so in my case as well of a life time of IBS etc. I did it hoping for pain manage that started happening within the first 30 days of LCHF so I was able to tell the doctors no 7 Nov 2014 when I was to start Enbrel injections for pain manage especially in my poor state of health. Best of health to you and all of us who are or have traveled down this road for one reason or another.
You forgot the
at the end. 5 -
For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.9
-
For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
The question isn't if there are degrees of severity, the question is if the people are clinically diagnosed with the BED or not.
Only a clinician would be aware of a spectrum, if there is one. This isn't for people who have problematic relationships with food to decide for themselves, and it's certainly not for you to decide it "makes sense".
BED is a clinical diagnosis.9 -
For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.12 -
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.9 -
For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
A psychological problem is a psychological problem. regardless of the severity of the eating disorder, you still have a disorder, you might have an easier time having longer lengths of control, but you are still going to have set backs and binges. The medication i take, Its called Vyvanse, When you google that it tells you that this medication is used to treat moderate to severe binge eating disorder. It's unlikely that there is a Easy binge eating disorder or a simple binge eating disorder or a light binge eating disorder. Whatever word you want to put in there. Moderate to me sounds like the base level of the disorder. Severe would be worse then that. However, both degrees of the disorder have the potential to need to be treated with medications to help people.
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/binge-eating-disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/binge-eating-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353627 -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
If we are going to start basing everything on varying degrees, how about we also do it to smoking? Someone who has only smoked for 10 years will have an easier time then someone who smoked for 15 right? the 10 year smoker will be less likely to go back to smoking again? Their cravings, their habits, whatever it is in their life that constantly makes smokers go back to smoking even after being smoke free for months, the 10 year person won't struggle as bad. And if you've only been smoking for 5 years, well.. as soon as you quit for good, you're cured right?
If an eating disorder is simply based on degrees of binge eating then everyone on this planet pretty much has B.E.D.. We are all very sick mentally i guess.. from carbs apparently. Everyone who has had a moment of losing control and binge eating on something, need not go to a psychiatrist to be clinically diagnosed, by your theory, they just have a less severe version of a mental disorder and if they just do what Gale did, they will be cured too? Even though site after site does not support this logic?9 -
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
But that's not the discussion you jumped into. Regardless of the range of severity possible, what does that have to do with someone saying their desire for dessert 5 years ago is proof of an ED and claiming to cure it with low carb? No one here said it's not possible for someone to get control over an ED with low carb. They said Gale didn't have an ED and so it's irresponsible for him to claim to have cured it.9 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
A psychological problem is a psychological problem. regardless of the severity of the eating disorder, you still have a disorder, you might have an easier time having longer lengths of control, but you are still going to have set backs and binges. The medication i take, Its called Vyvanse, When you google that it tells you that this medication is used to treat moderate to severe binge eating disorder. It's unlikely that there is a Easy binge eating disorder or a simple binge eating disorder or a light binge eating disorder. Whatever word you want to put in there. Moderate to me sounds like the base level of the disorder. Severe would be worse then that. However, both degrees of the disorder have the potential to need to be treated with medications to help people.
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/binge-eating-disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/binge-eating-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353627 -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
If we are going to start basing everything on varying degrees, how about we also do it to smoking? Someone who has only smoked for 10 years will have an easier time then someone who smoked for 15 right? the 10 year smoker will be less likely to go back to smoking again? Their cravings, their habits, whatever it is in their life that constantly makes smokers go back to smoking even after being smoke free for months, the 10 year person won't struggle as bad. And if you've only been smoking for 5 years, well.. as soon as you quit for good, you're cured right?
If an eating disorder is simply based on degrees of binge eating then everyone on this planet pretty much has B.E.D.. We are all very sick mentally i guess.. from carbs apparently. Everyone who has had a moment of losing control and binge eating on something, need not go to a psychiatrist to be clinically diagnosed, by your theory, they just have a less severe version of a mental disorder and if they just do what Gale did, they will be cured too? Even though site after site does not support this logic?
Those site are not all-knowing. I don't argue that it is a life-long struggle for some but yes I do think there has to be varying degrees especially since the medicine talked about gradations of it. A 4-pack a day smoker is different than a few cigarrettes/day person. There definitely various levels of alcohol abuse. Maybe a sever BED person can not be cured by diet but can they be helped?10 -
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Maybe you should invite that person into this thread and that person and Kriss can have a discussion about what worked and the severity of their clinically diagnosed Binge Eating Disorder and while at it, maybe you can ask the 3rd party if he or she thinks that the description of stopping for a banana split after one has eaten a full day of food even remotely qualifies as Binge Eating, or, if it is one of the most offensive comparisons that a person can offer.
My 29 year old sister in law has a very serious breast cancer diagnosis and is about to undergo a double mastectomy and a hysterectomy. At thanksgiving, I never once considered telling her that I had to go to the doctor to have a wart removed once so therefore I knew how she felt and oh by the way, maybe she should try this topical cream...
Stop trying to rationalize this. Not all things are equal. Keto and IF are not the magical weight loss accelerators that you think they are, nor are they a cure for clinically diagnosed binge eating disorder, or any of the other things you are so vested in wanting them to work for. Just. stop.14 -
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Why can't you get passed that part and focus on where i keep repeating myself that he is claiming resolve. He's cured. Fixed. Not broken. Not struggling. Not needing any help. These are not possible with people who actually have the mental disorder.
A person should be diagnosed to officially claim that they have something.
If i get a lump on my breast, instead of going to the doctor to find out if its a cyst or cancer, should i just claim to have cancer?7 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
A psychological problem is a psychological problem. regardless of the severity of the eating disorder, you still have a disorder, you might have an easier time having longer lengths of control, but you are still going to have set backs and binges. The medication i take, Its called Vyvanse, When you google that it tells you that this medication is used to treat moderate to severe binge eating disorder. It's unlikely that there is a Easy binge eating disorder or a simple binge eating disorder or a light binge eating disorder. Whatever word you want to put in there. Moderate to me sounds like the base level of the disorder. Severe would be worse then that. However, both degrees of the disorder have the potential to need to be treated with medications to help people.
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/binge-eating-disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/binge-eating-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353627 -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
If we are going to start basing everything on varying degrees, how about we also do it to smoking? Someone who has only smoked for 10 years will have an easier time then someone who smoked for 15 right? the 10 year smoker will be less likely to go back to smoking again? Their cravings, their habits, whatever it is in their life that constantly makes smokers go back to smoking even after being smoke free for months, the 10 year person won't struggle as bad. And if you've only been smoking for 5 years, well.. as soon as you quit for good, you're cured right?
If an eating disorder is simply based on degrees of binge eating then everyone on this planet pretty much has B.E.D.. We are all very sick mentally i guess.. from carbs apparently. Everyone who has had a moment of losing control and binge eating on something, need not go to a psychiatrist to be clinically diagnosed, by your theory, they just have a less severe version of a mental disorder and if they just do what Gale did, they will be cured too? Even though site after site does not support this logic?
Those site are not all-knowing. I don't argue that it is a life-long struggle for some but yes I do think there has to be varying degrees especially since the medicine talked about gradations of it. A 4-pack a day smoker is different than a few cigarrettes/day person. There definitely various levels of alcohol abuse. Maybe a sever BED person can not be cured by diet but can they be helped?
lol.. I can't even...
You are basically saying that you know more then websites based on factual information on an eating disorder?9 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Why can't you get passed that part and focus on where i keep repeating myself that he is claiming resolve. He's cured. Fixed. Not broken. Not struggling. Not needing any help. These are not possible with people who actually have the mental disorder.
A person should be diagnosed to officially claim that they have something.
If i get a lump on my breast, instead of going to the doctor to find out if its a cyst or cancer, should i just claim to have cancer?
Yes. Then eat nothing but PB&J for a month. Then recheck and find no lump. Then post in every thread on the boards that grape jelly cures breast cancer. Same level of legit.12 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
A psychological problem is a psychological problem. regardless of the severity of the eating disorder, you still have a disorder, you might have an easier time having longer lengths of control, but you are still going to have set backs and binges. The medication i take, Its called Vyvanse, When you google that it tells you that this medication is used to treat moderate to severe binge eating disorder. It's unlikely that there is a Easy binge eating disorder or a simple binge eating disorder or a light binge eating disorder. Whatever word you want to put in there. Moderate to me sounds like the base level of the disorder. Severe would be worse then that. However, both degrees of the disorder have the potential to need to be treated with medications to help people.
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/binge-eating-disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/binge-eating-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353627 -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
If we are going to start basing everything on varying degrees, how about we also do it to smoking? Someone who has only smoked for 10 years will have an easier time then someone who smoked for 15 right? the 10 year smoker will be less likely to go back to smoking again? Their cravings, their habits, whatever it is in their life that constantly makes smokers go back to smoking even after being smoke free for months, the 10 year person won't struggle as bad. And if you've only been smoking for 5 years, well.. as soon as you quit for good, you're cured right?
If an eating disorder is simply based on degrees of binge eating then everyone on this planet pretty much has B.E.D.. We are all very sick mentally i guess.. from carbs apparently. Everyone who has had a moment of losing control and binge eating on something, need not go to a psychiatrist to be clinically diagnosed, by your theory, they just have a less severe version of a mental disorder and if they just do what Gale did, they will be cured too? Even though site after site does not support this logic?
Those site are not all-knowing. I don't argue that it is a life-long struggle for some but yes I do think there has to be varying degrees especially since the medicine talked about gradations of it. A 4-pack a day smoker is different than a few cigarrettes/day person. There definitely various levels of alcohol abuse. Maybe a sever BED person can not be cured by diet but can they be helped?
NO! BED has NOTHING to do with diet! It's a compulsion that isn't based on what, when or how a person eats. A person with BED will eat anything and everything (as Kriss has described above) and has nothing to do with whether a person is eating high carb, low carb or whatever. If you think you are controlling a BED by eating a particular diet, you don't have a BED.10 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
A psychological problem is a psychological problem. regardless of the severity of the eating disorder, you still have a disorder, you might have an easier time having longer lengths of control, but you are still going to have set backs and binges. The medication i take, Its called Vyvanse, When you google that it tells you that this medication is used to treat moderate to severe binge eating disorder. It's unlikely that there is a Easy binge eating disorder or a simple binge eating disorder or a light binge eating disorder. Whatever word you want to put in there. Moderate to me sounds like the base level of the disorder. Severe would be worse then that. However, both degrees of the disorder have the potential to need to be treated with medications to help people.
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/binge-eating-disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/binge-eating-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353627 -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
If we are going to start basing everything on varying degrees, how about we also do it to smoking? Someone who has only smoked for 10 years will have an easier time then someone who smoked for 15 right? the 10 year smoker will be less likely to go back to smoking again? Their cravings, their habits, whatever it is in their life that constantly makes smokers go back to smoking even after being smoke free for months, the 10 year person won't struggle as bad. And if you've only been smoking for 5 years, well.. as soon as you quit for good, you're cured right?
If an eating disorder is simply based on degrees of binge eating then everyone on this planet pretty much has B.E.D.. We are all very sick mentally i guess.. from carbs apparently. Everyone who has had a moment of losing control and binge eating on something, need not go to a psychiatrist to be clinically diagnosed, by your theory, they just have a less severe version of a mental disorder and if they just do what Gale did, they will be cured too? Even though site after site does not support this logic?
Those site are not all-knowing. I don't argue that it is a life-long struggle for some but yes I do think there has to be varying degrees especially since the medicine talked about gradations of it. A 4-pack a day smoker is different than a few cigarrettes/day person. There definitely various levels of alcohol abuse. Maybe a sever BED person can not be cured by diet but can they be helped?
These sites aren't all knowing but your anecdotal stories which are from OTHER PEOPLE should override the sites which were designed to help people assess whether they have a problem and seek actual help?
Seriously man. Does Big Coconut Oil write you weekly checks? Are you on the board of IntermittentFastingCorp LLC? Why in thread after thread are you making such ridiculous claims and so vested in convincing others that this is the one true way that you completely and willfully ignore what others are saying? Are you being intentionally obtuse or do you just not care how ridiculous this makes you look, and how offensive this stance on this thread is?
12 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Maybe you should invite that person into this thread and that person and Kriss can have a discussion about what worked and the severity of their clinically diagnosed Binge Eating Disorder and while at it, maybe you can ask the 3rd party if he or she thinks that the description of stopping for a banana split after one has eaten a full day of food even remotely qualifies as Binge Eating, or, if it is one of the most offensive comparisons that a person can offer.
Yes, actually i would like to have a conversation with this person to hear how IF is stopping them from the compulsion to binge eat. Considering that compulsion isn't based on how many times a day you eat.
4 -
Please for the love of god can we just all report ourselves for derailing this thread from the original topic of Fung, take a warning, and hope the mods shut the thing down for good?9
-
WinoGelato wrote: »I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Maybe you should invite that person into this thread and that person and Kriss can have a discussion about what worked and the severity of their clinically diagnosed Binge Eating Disorder and while at it, maybe you can ask the 3rd party if he or she thinks that the description of stopping for a banana split after one has eaten a full day of food even remotely qualifies as Binge Eating, or, if it is one of the most offensive comparisons that a person can offer.
My 29 year old sister in law has a very serious breast cancer diagnosis and is about to undergo a double mastectomy and a hysterectomy. At thanksgiving, I never once considered telling her that I had to go to the doctor to have a wart removed once so therefore I knew how she felt and oh by the way, maybe she should try this topical cream...
Stop trying to rationalize this. Not all things are equal. Keto and IF are not the magical weight loss accelerators that you think they are, nor are they a cure for clinically diagnosed binge eating disorder, or any of the other things you are so vested in wanting them to work for. Just. stop.
This^! Stop speaking for a third party. If they want to speak here, they certainly are able. Stop trying to rationalize and minimize something that you are not expert in and offer your armchair solutions. I can't imagine you have any clue of how incredibly myopic and tone deaf you are coming across.5 -
It really disheartens me that someone would rather see someone self diagnose themselves and try and create their own cure with keto and IF then encourage them to seek professional help before it's too late.5
-
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Why can't you get passed that part and focus on where i keep repeating myself that he is claiming resolve. He's cured. Fixed. Not broken. Not struggling. Not needing any help. These are not possible with people who actually have the mental disorder.
A person should be diagnosed to officially claim that they have something.
If i get a lump on my breast, instead of going to the doctor to find out if its a cyst or cancer, should i just claim to have cancer?
What are your qualifications to say "He's cured"?12 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Please for the love of god can we just all report ourselves for derailing this thread from the original topic of Fung, take a warning, and hope the mods shut the thing down for good?
Only a month out from reset date, I'm totally up for it. Can I go all out and say what I really want to say, liberally sprinkled with *kittens* and *puppies*?2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Why can't you get passed that part and focus on where i keep repeating myself that he is claiming resolve. He's cured. Fixed. Not broken. Not struggling. Not needing any help. These are not possible with people who actually have the mental disorder.
A person should be diagnosed to officially claim that they have something.
If i get a lump on my breast, instead of going to the doctor to find out if its a cyst or cancer, should i just claim to have cancer?
What are your qualifications to say "He's cured"?
you. You claimed resolve. An end to your eating disorder.In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me.I would call a 40 year eating disorder a life-long struggle personally based on my own experience now that it is currently resolved.
re·solve
rəˈzälv/Submit
verb
1.
settle or find a solution to (a problem, dispute, or contentious matter).
"the firm aims to resolve problems within 30 days"
synonyms: settle, sort out, solve, find a solution to, fix, straighten out, deal with, put right, put to rights, rectify; More
Settle of find a solution. You claim to have found a solution to your eating disorder. There is no solution. There is management options but these are not a solution to the problem.. its simply a way to lessen the severity, but there is no resolve, you are making no mention of struggling still.
15 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Why can't you get passed that part and focus on where i keep repeating myself that he is claiming resolve. He's cured. Fixed. Not broken. Not struggling. Not needing any help. These are not possible with people who actually have the mental disorder.
A person should be diagnosed to officially claim that they have something.
If i get a lump on my breast, instead of going to the doctor to find out if its a cyst or cancer, should i just claim to have cancer?
What are your qualifications to say "He's cured"?
She was talking about you, and what you said about yourself.
You can't be cured of something you weren't diagnosed with. If that needs to be explained any further, I don't know what else to say.6 -
I keep waiting to get the release form to sign telling me this thread was a setup and we're going to be featured on Candid Camera.5
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions