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Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories
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jofjltncb6 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Everyone is partially right. A deficit is all that matters in losing weight but what and when you eat effect the deficit. Hormones can cause a person to absorb more or excrete more and can have impacts on hunger which all effect deficits.
How would it? despite hormones influencing hunger cues, that person still makes the choice to eat. Also, if someone does have a medical condition that impacts the food they need not consume, such as PCOS then after being diagnosed by a doctor, they would then know this and choose an appropriate lifestyle choice. However, no matter if they choose to ignore that lifestyle choice or if someone is choosing to eat from hunger cues, the food they pick or the time of day in which they eat that food does not matter, if my hormones were screaming at me to eat chocolate at 3am it is not set in stone that i have to, cravings actually can be ignored for one, a lot of people find that hard to do but it is something people can do, they also have a choice on how much of it they want to consume if they can't ignore it, if they choose to sit there and eat 5 chocolate bars and use their entire days worth of calories, thats on them then, hormones may cause the strong desire but again they can be ignored.
deficit is deficit. You choose to keep your deficit or eat it. Paying attention to your own body helps plan ahead and use your calories more wisely so you can make sure of that. @blambo61 -- People who claim that they can't lose weight because their hormones cause them to eat and feel hungry are simply using that as an excuse, otherwise everyone with a hormone imbalance would just forever be fat, but plenty of people have successfully lost weight even with hormone issues, it takes patience to find the math that will get you there and it takes awareness of how you need to plan, and it takes strategy to find the lifestyle that will best help you but if you are just going to throw in the white towel, don't blame the food picked, hormones or the sun or the moon being in the sky for it, you still make conscious choices in the end and if you plan right, the time of day and choice of food makes no difference.
People can choose but it is much easier if you don't feel like your starving all them time. How many of the "only CICO matters" crowd has yo-yo dieted and gained weight back? I bet a significant percentage. Why, because it is difficult. Hunger influences on eating should not be completely ignored.
The failure rate for almost diets is like 80-90%. And there is no CICO diet.
This. I'm a contributor to those statistics. I'm perfectly capable of losing weight with enough incentive, but was never able to sustain the loss. The reason was the same every time - I would reach my goal weight, then continue losing because that's all I knew how to do. At some point I would break, and pile all the weight back on.
I'm at goal weight again, (thanks in great part to these forums). I lost by eating the same foods I ate when I was gaining, but controlling portions (calories). By not having restricted myself to a food plan that didn't incorporate foods I love and didn't take into account what kinds of food keep me from being hungry all the time, one of the challenges I won't face while maintaining is trying to continue eating in a way that I don't find satisfying while losing the incentive of seeing the downward trend on the scale. I think this is possibly the single biggest contributor to regaining after weight loss.
I've only dieted twice. I've tried losing weight by running numerous times (didn't work cause would get sick or injured and eat back calories). First time I dieted, I ate a big breakfast, only ate fruit tell dinner, then ate a small dinner. I did exercise also. That diet was very hard for me because I would get very hungry during the day. Once I eat, my body wants more. I lost about 40-lbs on that but then got injured, couldn't run for a few months and it was just too hard. 6-months later I gained it all back.
The second time, I did 20:4 IF and ate ad libitum in the evenings and allowed deserts after eating good food. I lost 45-lbs in 4-months, then I went to a 16:8 and maintained for the next 1-year (I did gain back 10-lbs twice and went back to 20:4 each time to lose it again). Then I found if I ate just a salad at lunch and then ate ad libitum in the evenings, and exercise, I would maintain. I maintained for 7 or so more months without gaining doing that. Then recently I got back into the 20:4 routine for 3-months and have dropped another 15-lbs. My SW was 252 and I'm at about 195 right now. I think that is good that I'm at my lowest after starting 2yr and 2-months ago. IF works for me. I'm sure it doesn't for a lot of people but eating tell full is crucial for me for sustainability therefore I need to wait to eat or I will eat too much. Fasting is fairly easy for me but eating small meals and never getting full is hell for me.
Great! You found something that works for you personally, based on your preferences and lifestyle. IF is a good fit for you, as it helps you sustain the calorie deficit needed to lose weight. It may not be a good fit for others, nor does it offer an advantage over other options used to create a calorie deficit. I'm not sure why you keep trying to extrapolate something that you've found success with into something that offers an advantage over other methods of creating a calorie deficit to achieve the CI<CO result of the equation.
Did you notice I said, "I'm sure it doesn't for a lot of people..." referring to IF working for people (for various reasons, the biggest probably being hunger for some). I'm not sure why I get attacked with the opposite of what I write. I disagree that there are no advantages both from a hunger perspective and also for just generating a deficit on the same calories eaten (spread out or not). If you don't believe that, fine. I've NEVER said counting calories won't work and I've never said that IF or KETO is necessary. Of course any benefit from IF or KETO can be overcome by eating too much. It is an energy balance equation and the main factors are what you put in your mouth and how much activity you do, but hunger, due to hormones can cause you to eat more and any metabolic advantage with IF and KETO would be a small advantage. That should get people so riled I would think.
So ill ask you what no one has been able to answer, what hormonal changes are negated by doing keto or IF that dont naturally occur while in a deficit (i.e., letpin levels decrease)?
If anything from a muscle development or sustainment side those diets would be counter productive. More frequent protein consumption (~25 to 30g) drives MPS. And its easier to consume adequate protein (1.5g to 2.2g/kg) when its not in one or two meals (it can still be done by many can struggle). Being glycogen depleted on top of that requires higher protein levels (some studies ahow up to 2.8g/kg) in leaner individuals. Anearobic capacity is inhibited in most people; there are definitely exceptions with some fat adapted individuals.
And coming from 16:8, i just didnt see any added benefits outside of my normal 3 or 4 meals a day. I only saw downsides (starving). So if there was a theoritical benefits, i didnt experience it.
You just didn’t fast hard enough, brah. Next time, try 23:1 vegan keto with an occasionally 72-96hoyr fast to really reset those hormones and kickstart that muscle growth and fat loss. You’ll be Superhealthy™️!
Without ACV the rest of it is just a waste of time and money.10 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.20 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »addicted2cola wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I dunno... maybe i am just a weirdo.. but.. i can make my own donairs..
(Cause i know people are gonna be like.. what the *kitten* is a donair?!"
But despite that.. eventually i will get a craving for one from a take out place.. even with substitutes available.
i know there are people out there who can just not substitute and just go without.. but i feel like the amount who can compared to the amount of keto enthusiasts claiming as such just don't add up..
you know eventually i am going to look like one of those crazy conspiracy theorists who instead of ranting about a flat earth or the moon landing not happening, I will be jibber jabbering about keto and cravings lol
See, now you've set me with a major craving for these, and I only JUST had one this weekend lol. The place that made the best ones in St. John's shut down, and I've been trying to find a substitute ever since. Maybe I'll get one when I'm in Dartmouth in January. *insert drooling smiley*
Dartmouth.. my recommendation is Roberts pizza they are beyond massive lol two meals probably
Done haha. I will look them up when I get there! Thanks
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GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
You keep saying you had an eating disorder.
What was it? Your self proclaimed "abuse" of carbohydrate foods? The fact that you overate them? Does this tie in with claims that you've made in the past that anyone who over eats has some sort of mental disorder?
Gale, you have an OD. That does not qualify you to make these sort of pronouncements.
They are offensive and they are wrong.12 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Quick reference for bullsh*t on the internet.
Is the message in line with current expert consensus on the topic and the page is well cited and there are no advertisments? Probably not BS.
Is the message in line with current expert consensus on the topic but the page is actively promoting a product and/or lined with ads? Be skeptical, probably not the best source for unbiased info.
Is the message counter to established expert opinion on the topic but the page cites things and there are no advertisments. Be skeptical but hear them out.
Is the message counter to established expert opinion on the topic and the page is covered in ads trying to sell you things? Most likely BS.
Is the message counter to established expert opinion on the topic and the author themselves is actively promoting and selling their own products? Definately BS...run.
I would suggest that since nothing is free, as long as the advertising is of the "generic sort" and is not targeted to the topic of the article, that the existence of advertising is a useful but not sufficient discriminator
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HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.
His "eating disorder" was that he consumed carbohydrates. Clearly, leaving the bun on one's cheeseburger is an eating disorder and I don't know why anyone would question that.16 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.
I would call a 40 year eating disorder a life-long struggle personally based on my own experience now that it is currently resolved.
The subject of this tread is "Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories" and while I have personally experienced this to be medical factual perhaps others have not. I have not read one post in this thread where others disagreed with Dr. Jason Fung and posted their terminal degrees and their work on the subject or the work of other peers of Dr. Fung to support that Dr. Jason is medically incorrect when it comes to weight loss.
In my case after cutting out sugar and all forms of all grains it became medically clear it was not just total calories but also the source of my calories that determined where my chances of longevity decreased or increased and the direction of my health markers.
Dr. Davis in his new book, Undoctored: Why Health Care Has Failed You and How You Can Become Smarter ... he wrote in the intro:
"I propose that people can manage their own health safely and responsibly and attain results superior to those achieved through conventional health care - not less than, not on par with, but superior."
While I do not give others medical advice I do share my personal experiences and results for the few that are interested that may have had a life of yo-yoing weight and failing health to deal with for many years.
We live in a day per current MD's where patients can gain and act so simple Ways Of Eating that may be game changers for them and their families.24 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.
I would call a 40 year eating disorder a life-long struggle personally based on my own experience now that it is currently resolved.
No. And you are completely dancing around the rest of the things that I said go hand in hand with an actual eating disorder.
Just because someone struggles for 40 years does not make it an eating disorder.
Eating disorders do not get resolved.
Let me repeat this like a broken record...
Eating disorders do not get resolved.
The reason they don't is because it is an actual psychological problem. There is always struggle every day even with treatment. There is no resolve. None. Ever.
15 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.
I would call a 40 year eating disorder a life-long struggle personally based on my own experience now that it is currently resolved.
The subject of this tread is "Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories" and while I have personally experienced this to be medical factual perhaps others have not. I have not read one post in this thread where others disagreed with Dr. Jason Fung and posted their terminal degrees and their work on the subject or the work of other peers of Dr. Fung to support that Dr. Jason is medically incorrect when it comes to weight loss.
In my case after cutting out sugar and all forms of all grains it became medically clear it was not just total calories but also the source of my calories that determined where my chances of longevity decreased or increased and the direction of my health markers.
Dr. Davis in his new book, Undoctored: Why Health Care Has Failed You and How You Can Become Smarter ... he wrote in the intro:
"I propose that people can manage their own health safely and responsibly and attain results superior to those achieved through conventional health care - not less than, not on par with, but superior."
While I do not give others medical advice I do share my personal experiences and results for the few that are interested that may have had a life of yo-yoing weight and failing health to deal with for many years.
We live in a day per current MD's where patients can gain and act so simple Ways Of Eating that may be game changers for them and their families.
It's so bizarre to insist that anyone who disagrees with you needs to share their terminal degree while at the same time saying that your personal experience determines what is "medical factual" or quoting people who insist that people should manage their own health care instead of partnering with medical professionals.
One can disagree with Fung's unsupported theories without having a terminal degree. You should evaluate objections (and the original theory) by their logic and the facts cited, not the degree of the person making the argument. If one determines that one doesn't have the personal ability to evaluate an argument, that's fine (I freely acknowledge there are some areas I don't know enough about to have a valid opinion), but holding a degree isn't a requirement for having something worthwhile to say in a conversation.
At the same time, our personal experiences don't determine what medical facts are. Your personal experiences with changing your diet and weight loss are just that, personal experiences. They don't begin to support your self-diagnosis of an ED or invalidate the fact that weight loss is created through a calorie deficit.
As to how you can reconcile demanding disclosure of degrees *and* arguing that self-managed diagnosis and treatment will produce better results than standard medicine, I'll leave that to you.
18 -
According to the NIH, "The eating disorders anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa, and binge-eating disorder, and their variants, all feature serious disturbances in eating behavior and weight regulation. They are associated with a wide range of adverse psychological, physical, and social consequences. A person with an eating disorder may start out just eating smaller or larger amounts of food, but at some point, their urge to eat less or more spirals out of control. Severe distress or concern about body weight or shape, or extreme efforts to manage weight or food intake, also may characterize an eating disorder.
Eating disorders are real, treatable medical illnesses. They frequently coexist with other illnesses such as depression, substance abuse, or anxiety disorders. Other symptoms can become life-threatening if a person does not receive treatment, which is reflected by anorexia being associated with the highest mortality rate of any psychiatric disorder."
But then I would assume someone with a terminal degree would already know that and not suggest that their diet causing them health issues was an "eating disorder".15 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.
I would call a 40 year eating disorder a life-long struggle personally based on my own experience now that it is currently resolved.
No. And you are completely dancing around the rest of the things that I said go hand in hand with an actual eating disorder.
Just because someone struggles for 40 years does not make it an eating disorder.
Eating disorders do not get resolved.
Let me repeat this like a broken record...
Eating disorders do not get resolved.
The reason they don't is because it is an actual psychological problem. There is always struggle every day even with treatment. There is no resolve. None. Ever.
Kind of a hopeless view for those you speak about. Did you ever read about the food induced psychological problems leading to the Salem witch trials?
greenmedinfo.com/blog/were-salem-witch-trials-spurred-food-poisoning15 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.
I would call a 40 year eating disorder a life-long struggle personally based on my own experience now that it is currently resolved.
The subject of this tread is "Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories" and while I have personally experienced this to be medical factual perhaps others have not. I have not read one post in this thread where others disagreed with Dr. Jason Fung and posted their terminal degrees and their work on the subject or the work of other peers of Dr. Fung to support that Dr. Jason is medically incorrect when it comes to weight loss.
In my case after cutting out sugar and all forms of all grains it became medically clear it was not just total calories but also the source of my calories that determined where my chances of longevity decreased or increased and the direction of my health markers.
Dr. Davis in his new book, Undoctored: Why Health Care Has Failed You and How You Can Become Smarter ... he wrote in the intro:
"I propose that people can manage their own health safely and responsibly and attain results superior to those achieved through conventional health care - not less than, not on par with, but superior."
While I do not give others medical advice I do share my personal experiences and results for the few that are interested that may have had a life of yo-yoing weight and failing health to deal with for many years.
We live in a day per current MD's where patients can gain and act so simple Ways Of Eating that may be game changers for them and their families.
From everything you have said, you had really bad eating habits, not an addiction or an eating disorder. You should be proud of overcoming your 40 years of bad eating habits and quit making up self-diagnosed conditions.16 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.
I would call a 40 year eating disorder a life-long struggle personally based on my own experience now that it is currently resolved.
No. And you are completely dancing around the rest of the things that I said go hand in hand with an actual eating disorder.
Just because someone struggles for 40 years does not make it an eating disorder.
Eating disorders do not get resolved.
Let me repeat this like a broken record...
Eating disorders do not get resolved.
The reason they don't is because it is an actual psychological problem. There is always struggle every day even with treatment. There is no resolve. None. Ever.
Kind of a hopeless view for those you speak about. Did you ever read about the food induced psychological problems leading to the Salem witch trials?
greenmedinfo.com/blog/were-salem-witch-trials-spurred-food-poisoning
This is not by a historian and it's obviously not a person who has done serious research on the witch panic. I suggest you research what actual historians have to say about the Salem witch panic. They don't blame food poisoning.
And even if they did, what on earth does this have to do with your self-diagnosis of an ED?14 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.
I would call a 40 year eating disorder a life-long struggle personally based on my own experience now that it is currently resolved.
No. And you are completely dancing around the rest of the things that I said go hand in hand with an actual eating disorder.
Just because someone struggles for 40 years does not make it an eating disorder.
Eating disorders do not get resolved.
Let me repeat this like a broken record...
Eating disorders do not get resolved.
The reason they don't is because it is an actual psychological problem. There is always struggle every day even with treatment. There is no resolve. None. Ever.
Kind of a hopeless view for those you speak about. Did you ever read about the food induced psychological problems leading to the Salem witch trials?
greenmedinfo.com/blog/were-salem-witch-trials-spurred-food-poisoning
"Those I speak about" also include me. I actually have a diagnosed eating disorder to which I am medicated for with vyvanse. The medication helps get me to a point where I can make the choice to not binge eat constantly. But do you know where the struggle remains? On my bad days when I have to really dig deep and not let anything influence whatever small strength the pills offer me right now.
This strength isn't going to be determined by going keto or whatever diet that eliminates certain foods. Why? Because my brain wants those things. It's a stronger urge then any elimination diet could counter. It's controlling. Even with the meds. There is no resolve. I have no choice but to fight and find reason every single day.11 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.
I would call a 40 year eating disorder a life-long struggle personally based on my own experience now that it is currently resolved.
The subject of this tread is "Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories" and while I have personally experienced this to be medical factual perhaps others have not. I have not read one post in this thread where others disagreed with Dr. Jason Fung and posted their terminal degrees and their work on the subject or the work of other peers of Dr. Fung to support that Dr. Jason is medically incorrect when it comes to weight loss.
In my case after cutting out sugar and all forms of all grains it became medically clear it was not just total calories but also the source of my calories that determined where my chances of longevity decreased or increased and the direction of my health markers.
Dr. Davis in his new book, Undoctored: Why Health Care Has Failed You and How You Can Become Smarter ... he wrote in the intro:
"I propose that people can manage their own health safely and responsibly and attain results superior to those achieved through conventional health care - not less than, not on par with, but superior."
While I do not give others medical advice I do share my personal experiences and results for the few that are interested that may have had a life of yo-yoing weight and failing health to deal with for many years.
We live in a day per current MD's where patients can gain and act so simple Ways Of Eating that may be game changers for them and their families.
to the bolded: that's not only misguided, but *kitten* dangerous. relying on 'diet' to cure serious medical conditions has caused many many deaths. several posters have previously recounted horrible anecdotes about friends and family who were killed by this kind of misinformation. and could have been saved by conventional health care. it's horrible.
just this week, in fact, this story popped on my news feed. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/11/17/tamara-lovett-calgary-mom-guilty-in-sons-strep-infection-death-gets-prison-time_a_23281094/
10 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.
I would call a 40 year eating disorder a life-long struggle personally based on my own experience now that it is currently resolved.
The subject of this tread is "Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories" and while I have personally experienced this to be medical factual perhaps others have not. I have not read one post in this thread where others disagreed with Dr. Jason Fung and posted their terminal degrees and their work on the subject or the work of other peers of Dr. Fung to support that Dr. Jason is medically incorrect when it comes to weight loss.
In my case after cutting out sugar and all forms of all grains it became medically clear it was not just total calories but also the source of my calories that determined where my chances of longevity decreased or increased and the direction of my health markers.
Dr. Davis in his new book, Undoctored: Why Health Care Has Failed You and How You Can Become Smarter ... he wrote in the intro:
"I propose that people can manage their own health safely and responsibly and attain results superior to those achieved through conventional health care - not less than, not on par with, but superior."
While I do not give others medical advice I do share my personal experiences and results for the few that are interested that may have had a life of yo-yoing weight and failing health to deal with for many years.
We live in a day per current MD's where patients can gain and act so simple Ways Of Eating that may be game changers for them and their families.
to the bolded: that's not only misguided, but *kitten* dangerous. relying on 'diet' to cure serious medical conditions has caused many many deaths. several posters have previously recounted horrible anecdotes about friends and family who were killed by this kind of misinformation. and could have been saved by conventional health care. it's horrible.
just this week, in fact, this story popped on my news feed. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/11/17/tamara-lovett-calgary-mom-guilty-in-sons-strep-infection-death-gets-prison-time_a_23281094/
That's sad.. I can't understand why people's common sense goes right out the window on things like this... someone's sick.. so tea and oil?? Seriously??3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »In my case as most others if there were hormonal changes by doing keto we have no way to know what they were or why they changed in a medical sense.
When on a hunch I cut out sugar and all forms of grains over three years ago and got heavy into coconut oil usage I accidently went keto not even knowing what the term meant.
In just 30 days it was managing my long term pain and resolving my eating disorder that I did not even know that I had. Perhaps it was changes in hormones made me become aware when to stop eating when I was full that resolved my eating disorder.
The how and why cutting out using sugar and or any form of any grain resolved my eating disorder of 40 years is not of a real concern to me. Improving health and health markers, eating until I am stuffed several times daily with no hungry, counting or measuring is of concern and I just am thankful keto works in my case. I as all others would not have been able to say if keto worked or did not work on a personal level had I not tried keto.
@GaleHawkins
What exactly was your eating disorder?
Binge eating? Because I can tell you right now.. From a mental perspective that if you had an actual psychological disorder that *should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist* even a change in diet removing all possible trigger foods if you had a specific list would not fix your eating disorder within 30 days. An eating disorder is a life long struggle. Simply removing triggers does not fix the problem.
You don't mention being professionally diagnosed. So I am to assume you self diagnosed yourself basing it on an over consumption of carbs? If thats the case i dont think thats fair of you. We all have struggles.. You are allowed to have yours. But don't call it an eating disorder. It is quite insensitive.
I would call a 40 year eating disorder a life-long struggle personally based on my own experience now that it is currently resolved.
The subject of this tread is "Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories" and while I have personally experienced this to be medical factual perhaps others have not. I have not read one post in this thread where others disagreed with Dr. Jason Fung and posted their terminal degrees and their work on the subject or the work of other peers of Dr. Fung to support that Dr. Jason is medically incorrect when it comes to weight loss.
In my case after cutting out sugar and all forms of all grains it became medically clear it was not just total calories but also the source of my calories that determined where my chances of longevity decreased or increased and the direction of my health markers.
Dr. Davis in his new book, Undoctored: Why Health Care Has Failed You and How You Can Become Smarter ... he wrote in the intro:
"I propose that people can manage their own health safely and responsibly and attain results superior to those achieved through conventional health care - not less than, not on par with, but superior."
While I do not give others medical advice I do share my personal experiences and results for the few that are interested that may have had a life of yo-yoing weight and failing health to deal with for many years.
We live in a day per current MD's where patients can gain and act so simple Ways Of Eating that may be game changers for them and their families.
There is so much wrong with this and the foundation of your arguments that it's not even worth the time it would take to try to pull it all apart.
Anyone who hasn't found the science supporting the concept of calories isn't looking in the right place. There are hundreds of metabolic ward studies in support of said science, Gale.
This bit, however, from the author of Wheat Belly, no less:I propose that people can manage their own health safely and responsibly and attain results superior to those achieved through conventional health care - not less than, not on par with, but superior.
Is not only exceedingly dangerous, but it's entirely greed driven. Sure, don't seek medical help, but buy my book.
There's one born every minute, and they line right up for this nonsense.
11 -
It's sad, but seeing the way health care providers speak on these message boards causes me to trust doctors less and less. Making up eating disorders? That's just harmful nonsense, there.12
-
According to the NIH, "The eating disorders anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa, and binge-eating disorder, and their variants, all feature serious disturbances in eating behavior and weight regulation. They are associated with a wide range of adverse psychological, physical, and social consequences. A person with an eating disorder may start out just eating smaller or larger amounts of food, but at some point, their urge to eat less or more spirals out of control. Severe distress or concern about body weight or shape, or extreme efforts to manage weight or food intake, also may characterize an eating disorder.
Eating disorders are real, treatable medical illnesses. They frequently coexist with other illnesses such as depression, substance abuse, or anxiety disorders. Other symptoms can become life-threatening if a person does not receive treatment, which is reflected by anorexia being associated with the highest mortality rate of any psychiatric disorder."
But then I would assume someone with a terminal degree would already know that and not suggest that their diet causing them health issues was an "eating disorder".
So you now agree binge-eating is an eating disorder?8 -
Can I return to the subject of donair and say that, in my opinion, the Halifax donair is criminally underrated as an iconic Canadian food item? Like, yeah yeah poutine maple syrup ketchup chips blah blah blah, Halifax donair is the most superior Canadian junk food item period.
They are not the same at all as any authentic Turkish, Middle Eastern, or even German version that I've ever heard of, but I think that's why they deserve recognition, since they are clearly a Canadian invention in their Halifax incarnation.6
This discussion has been closed.
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