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Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories
Replies
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For those with a serious ED, I do sympathize with you. I'm sure that is not an easy burden to bear. But please don't be so sensitive about it to cross the lines of being rude to Gale. He is telling his story and what he believes, maybe he has a mild form of an eating disorder, I don't know. Neither do you. It doesn't have to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist to be real. I'm sure there are lots of folks with issues that have never been diagnosed. I've never had a problem reading his posts at all. And yes, some folks have self treated themselves back to health and some have hurt themselves by not seeking medical help. It sure seems to me that he is in the former category. And medical science in the past has not always been right (mercury treatments were very common in the early 19th century).
Over the course of I think it's been a couple of years, he has described in detail what he used to do and what he does now. While the story has changed multiple times, nothing he has ever described has been an eating disorder.
And whether it's ED or gluten allergies or OCD, random individuals diagnosing themselves with a condition they don't understand and claiming to cure it with lifestyle changes with no corroborated evidence to support it, is dangerous and cheapens the struggle of those legitimately diagnosed.16 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with a serious ED, I do sympathize with you. I'm sure that is not an easy burden to bear. But please don't be so sensitive about it to cross the lines of being rude to Gale. He is telling his story and what he believes, maybe he has a mild form of an eating disorder, I don't know. Neither do you. It doesn't have to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist to be real. I'm sure there are a lots of folks with issues that have never been diagnosed. I've never had a problem reading his posts at all. And yes, some folks have self treated themselves back to health and some have hurt themselves by not seeking medical help. It sure seems to me that he is in the former category. And medical science in the past has not always been right, mercury treatments were very common in the early 19th century.
But i do know.
I live and breathe this life every single day, i know the struggles cause i have lived them most of my life, I know that there is absolutely no resolve or end to this fight, yes, it does need to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Just because people go through things undiagnosed does not mean they can just diagnose themselves and claim a mental illness and thats perfectly fine.
If thats the case every time i get PMS, i am going to claim i am pregnant, i mean, they share a lot of the same symptons at first, so why not right? i won't go to the doctor and have them give me a pregnancy test or nothin.. ill just diagnose the symptoms myself
I'm just saying people can have issues that have gone un-diagnosed. His worse offense is he mislabled his problems. Bottom line is he had problems, he overcame them, there are good lessons to learn from that and we shouldn't crucify him for mislabeling something. I'm sure he isn't trying to be offensive. He provided something of value, a data point of overcoming some issues that might help others with similar issues. That is all. I'm sure people are very sensitive to true ED because of how difficult that is so I can understand the sensitivity but we still don't have to beat the person up. A mild correction is sufficient I think.9 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with a serious ED, I do sympathize with you. I'm sure that is not an easy burden to bear. But please don't be so sensitive about it to cross the lines of being rude to Gale. He is telling his story and what he believes, maybe he has a mild form of an eating disorder, I don't know. Neither do you. It doesn't have to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist to be real. I'm sure there are a lots of folks with issues that have never been diagnosed. I've never had a problem reading his posts at all. And yes, some folks have self treated themselves back to health and some have hurt themselves by not seeking medical help. It sure seems to me that he is in the former category. And medical science in the past has not always been right, mercury treatments were very common in the early 19th century.
But i do know.
I live and breathe this life every single day, i know the struggles cause i have lived them most of my life, I know that there is absolutely no resolve or end to this fight, yes, it does need to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Just because people go through things undiagnosed does not mean they can just diagnose themselves and claim a mental illness and thats perfectly fine.
If thats the case every time i get PMS, i am going to claim i am pregnant, i mean, they share a lot of the same symptons at first, so why not right? i won't go to the doctor and have them give me a pregnancy test or nothin.. ill just diagnose the symptoms myself
I'm just saying people can have issues that have gone un-diagnosed. His worse offense is he mislabled his problems. Bottom line is he had problems, he overcame them, there are good lessons to learn from that and we shouldn't crucify him for mislabeling something. I'm sure he isn't trying to be offensive. He provided something of value, a data point of overcoming some issues that might help others with similar issues. That is all. I'm sure people are very sensitive to true ED because of how difficult that is so I can understand the sensitivity but we still don't have to beat the person up. A mild correction is sufficient I think.
There's a history of self diagnosing and exaggeration to try to convince everyone keto is a cure all. His story constantly changes and every time he tells it his form condition gets worse. For example he used to include that he had ibs and cured it with keto than one day out of the blue ibs became ibd which is a huge leap.12 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with a serious ED, I do sympathize with you. I'm sure that is not an easy burden to bear. But please don't be so sensitive about it to cross the lines of being rude to Gale. He is telling his story and what he believes, maybe he has a mild form of an eating disorder, I don't know. Neither do you. It doesn't have to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist to be real. I'm sure there are a lots of folks with issues that have never been diagnosed. I've never had a problem reading his posts at all. And yes, some folks have self treated themselves back to health and some have hurt themselves by not seeking medical help. It sure seems to me that he is in the former category. And medical science in the past has not always been right, mercury treatments were very common in the early 19th century.
But i do know.
I live and breathe this life every single day, i know the struggles cause i have lived them most of my life, I know that there is absolutely no resolve or end to this fight, yes, it does need to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Just because people go through things undiagnosed does not mean they can just diagnose themselves and claim a mental illness and thats perfectly fine.
If thats the case every time i get PMS, i am going to claim i am pregnant, i mean, they share a lot of the same symptons at first, so why not right? i won't go to the doctor and have them give me a pregnancy test or nothin.. ill just diagnose the symptoms myself
I'm just saying people can have issues that have gone un-diagnosed. His worse offense is he mislabled his problems. Bottom line is he had problems, he overcame them, there are good lessons to learn from that and we shouldn't crucify him for mislabeling something. I'm sure he isn't trying to be offensive. He provided something of value, a data point of overcoming some issues that might help others with similar issues. That is all. I'm sure people are very sensitive to true ED because of how difficult that is so I can understand the sensitivity but we still don't have to beat the person up. A mild correction is sufficient I think.
I have a strong suspicion that he does have psychological issues but none that I can see that are food related, nor could they be solved by diet.14 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with a serious ED, I do sympathize with you. I'm sure that is not an easy burden to bear. But please don't be so sensitive about it to cross the lines of being rude to Gale. He is telling his story and what he believes, maybe he has a mild form of an eating disorder, I don't know. Neither do you. It doesn't have to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist to be real. I'm sure there are a lots of folks with issues that have never been diagnosed. I've never had a problem reading his posts at all. And yes, some folks have self treated themselves back to health and some have hurt themselves by not seeking medical help. It sure seems to me that he is in the former category. And medical science in the past has not always been right, mercury treatments were very common in the early 19th century.
But i do know.
I live and breathe this life every single day, i know the struggles cause i have lived them most of my life, I know that there is absolutely no resolve or end to this fight, yes, it does need to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Just because people go through things undiagnosed does not mean they can just diagnose themselves and claim a mental illness and thats perfectly fine.
If thats the case every time i get PMS, i am going to claim i am pregnant, i mean, they share a lot of the same symptons at first, so why not right? i won't go to the doctor and have them give me a pregnancy test or nothin.. ill just diagnose the symptoms myself
I'm just saying people can have issues that have gone un-diagnosed. His worse offense is he mislabled his problems. Bottom line is he had problems, he overcame them, there are good lessons to learn from that and we shouldn't crucify him for mislabeling something. I'm sure he isn't trying to be offensive. He provided something of value, a data point of overcoming some issues that might help others with similar issues. That is all. I'm sure people are very sensitive to true ED because of how difficult that is so I can understand the sensitivity but we still don't have to beat the person up. A mild correction is sufficient I think.
I'm not at all sure he isn't trying to be offensive. This has come up repeatedly on several threads. People tell him it's insensitive and offensive, and he carries on. Not once has he tried to explain why he believes simply overeating high carb foods qualifies as an eating disorder.12 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with a serious ED, I do sympathize with you. I'm sure that is not an easy burden to bear. But please don't be so sensitive about it to cross the lines of being rude to Gale. He is telling his story and what he believes, maybe he has a mild form of an eating disorder, I don't know. Neither do you. It doesn't have to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist to be real. I'm sure there are a lots of folks with issues that have never been diagnosed. I've never had a problem reading his posts at all. And yes, some folks have self treated themselves back to health and some have hurt themselves by not seeking medical help. It sure seems to me that he is in the former category. And medical science in the past has not always been right, mercury treatments were very common in the early 19th century.
But i do know.
I live and breathe this life every single day, i know the struggles cause i have lived them most of my life, I know that there is absolutely no resolve or end to this fight, yes, it does need to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Just because people go through things undiagnosed does not mean they can just diagnose themselves and claim a mental illness and thats perfectly fine.
If thats the case every time i get PMS, i am going to claim i am pregnant, i mean, they share a lot of the same symptons at first, so why not right? i won't go to the doctor and have them give me a pregnancy test or nothin.. ill just diagnose the symptoms myself
I'm just saying people can have issues that have gone un-diagnosed. His worse offense is he mislabled his problems. Bottom line is he had problems, he overcame them, there are good lessons to learn from that and we shouldn't crucify him for mislabeling something. I'm sure he isn't trying to be offensive. He provided something of value, a data point of overcoming some issues that might help others with similar issues. That is all. I'm sure people are very sensitive to true ED because of how difficult that is so I can understand the sensitivity but we still don't have to beat the person up. A mild correction is sufficient I think.
And on at least one occasion, I commented that he could actually help people if he presented himself simply that way, as someone who struggled with eating, weight, and health conditions; then through insightful personal experimentation found a (perhaps somewhat idiosyncratic*) path that helped him materially improve his situation, with relative satisfaction and ease. How he found the path coud be helpful, in other words.
But the posts are about "finding the macro" and the implication** that that way of eating will be magic for all, and cure an increasingly more severely characterized set of mental/physical health issues he used to have, and (sometimes) that many of us also have but don't realize/admit.
* There's more to it than low carb. McDonald's - as a good thing - sometimes, for example, too. Not saying it's wrong, but there have been details that most would find difficult or unpleasant to adopt: "Idiosyncratic" is defensible, for the totality, IMO.
** Maybe just me, but I feel like the tone has softened over maybe the past year from insistence to implication. If so, that's an improvement.
Bottom line: Yes, this story could help people. Mostly - unfortunately - it doesn't.
Edited: typos, omitted words12 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with a serious ED, I do sympathize with you. I'm sure that is not an easy burden to bear. But please don't be so sensitive about it to cross the lines of being rude to Gale. He is telling his story and what he believes, maybe he has a mild form of an eating disorder, I don't know. Neither do you. It doesn't have to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist to be real. I'm sure there are a lots of folks with issues that have never been diagnosed. I've never had a problem reading his posts at all. And yes, some folks have self treated themselves back to health and some have hurt themselves by not seeking medical help. It sure seems to me that he is in the former category. And medical science in the past has not always been right, mercury treatments were very common in the early 19th century.
But i do know.
I live and breathe this life every single day, i know the struggles cause i have lived them most of my life, I know that there is absolutely no resolve or end to this fight, yes, it does need to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Just because people go through things undiagnosed does not mean they can just diagnose themselves and claim a mental illness and thats perfectly fine.
If thats the case every time i get PMS, i am going to claim i am pregnant, i mean, they share a lot of the same symptons at first, so why not right? i won't go to the doctor and have them give me a pregnancy test or nothin.. ill just diagnose the symptoms myself
I'm just saying people can have issues that have gone un-diagnosed. His worse offense is he mislabled his problems. Bottom line is he had problems, he overcame them, there are good lessons to learn from that and we shouldn't crucify him for mislabeling something. I'm sure he isn't trying to be offensive. He provided something of value, a data point of overcoming some issues that might help others with similar issues. That is all. I'm sure people are very sensitive to true ED because of how difficult that is so I can understand the sensitivity but we still don't have to beat the person up. A mild correction is sufficient I think.
Self diagnosing yourself with an eating disorder and then claiming you cured yourself by going keto is basically kicking someone who really has an eating disorder and hasn't been able to get help professionally to understand what's happening.. It's like kicking them when they are already down.
People with binge eating disorders feel hopeless. Lost. Depressed. Like a failure. They are frustrated. Ashamed. Guilty. Angry. They feel stupid. They feel this way cause every time they try to do something to not eat it never works. They cant understand why something so simple just won't work. Why can't they stop eating? They've tried everything and have probably considered sewing their mouth shut in hopes that would finally be a solution. In depression they can sometimes wish their life would just end so they would not have to wake up and do this another day. It's absolutely heart breaking for people with a binge eating disorder to have to go through that heavy guilt and shame that we see people go through here constantly when they have moments of weakness and go through a binge episode.
So when someone comes on here parading about claiming they had an eating disorder and then found resolve when they went keto... for those constantly struggling and grasping at threads that keep breaking this becomes one more kick..
People see someone who found this supposed solution without having to resort to medical professional support and treatment and they go and try it themselves and ultimately it's just going to fail. Because people with binge eating disorder eat anything. It's not a simple diet change. This failure could leave some destruction with it. People handle depression and failure in different ways and in my opinion I would never want to give someone false hope only to leave them crushed at the end.
I will always be straight forward and honest. Even if he says that it's a weak view for people with an eating disorder that I have. It only sounds weak because he doesn't have an eating disorder... but do you know what people with an eating disorder need to hear? That whole there is no resolve and you will struggle every single day that you can keep going and get through the battles with the help of a psychiatrist and therapy and potentially even medications. There may not be a cure or fix but if you seek help you can manage the issue better then what is happening now. Relieve a bit of that hopelessness. Relieve a bit of that lost and failure and ashamed. Give them someone to talk to who understand and let's them know they aren't alone and it's not their fault that nothing they have tried is working.
Do you know why he is offensive with his claims? Because he isn't even relating to any of this at all in his posts. There is no emotional ties. No connection. No sympathy. No nothing. It's just I had an eating disorder and then in 30 days I fixed it by going keto.
He may of fixed his over eating or binge moments by going keto but be honest with what you claim. And when someone calls you out on your mistake don't come back and argue that they are wrong and that you do have an eating disorder when you dont. He got his mild correction. He rejected it.25 -
Hey I went a day without eating at McDonalds because the suckers locked me out. By the way it is a great place if one wants to eat low carb. I am really like their 200 calorie large coffee.
I know some do not see out of control (binge) eating an eating disorder. I do not know why I reacted to sugar and grains so badly. While the forty years of binging wrecked my health by fusing joints from head to toe I know the side effects will not go away but it has helped with the pain and mental fog.
I make no claims for what keto will for others but just state while I did it accidently it has helped in my case.
It was not until I was sitting in on some Celebrating Recovery classes since I am on the board of a halfway house and wanted to better to learn about addiction and recovery since that had never been a problem for me I thought. The chapter on Denial hit me like a ton of bricks. I suddenly saw I was no better than the guy with needle tracks.
I was binging because I liked the high to keep on keepin on the doctor mentioned yesterday. At the time I did not even medically understand how carbs could be addicting to some people. My uncles on my dad's side all died directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse so I knew not to touch it with a obsessive compulsive nature.
Do I care about others? I will run with what the people watch me daily in action. I can not and will not try to make others act right? I will not make false medical statements about others like some have said about me.
Before I found MFP at age 63 I had already decided I was though with diet and exercise for weight loss because after being up and down for 40 years and then the heaviest of my life I knew there had to be a better way. I did not want to become homebound and die prematurely so I made working to live to be 110 and walking and talking the entire way my stated goal but I was still binge eating if I was around sugar and grain based foods.
Upon realizing I was a carb addict I finally stopped going by the Dairy Queen every day on my way home after just eating a full meal. It was a hellish two weeks and so so for another two and just kind of OK for the next two months. I knew several that got away from depending on alcohol and drugs so that surely I could do the same with carbs.
We can cut out alcohol totally but we can not cut out FOOD totally. We can not even stay away from where food is in most cases. The wife and teenage kids keep right on eating the carbs that I was eating. My carb addiction was my problem and I had no right to expect them to leave off carbs so I set down to a table full of carbs but there are even more carbs around me at McDonalds (they to reopen in 90 minutes
).
Tonight I was reading on what the Sumer people ate like 5000 years ago and they ate mainly carbs and most of the people in the Blue Zones live on carbs but there were no highly processed carbs in the diets of either groups just mentioned.
Like my friends that have stopped drinking would like to see others stop harming themselves with alcohol I would like to see that food wise but just because going low carb has or is resolving a ton of my 40 years of health issues I have no way to know if my WOE will help them or not.
It does bother me when some say medically speaking one can not be addicted to carbs but I in the back of my mind they are not saying that to harm others directly but just have not studied the subject. It is true on most any forum most readers never post and that is the ones that concern me when people repeatedly post false medical statements.
Best of success to all eating the way that works best for you.
25 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Hey I went a day without eating at McDonalds because the suckers locked me out. By the way it is a great place if one wants to eat low carb. I am really like their 200 calorie large coffee.
I know some do not see out of control (binge) eating an eating disorder. I do not know why I reacted to sugar and grains so badly. While the forty years of binging wrecked my health by fusing joints from head to toe I know the side effects will not go away but it has helped with the pain and mental fog.
I make no claims for what keto will for others but just state while I did it accidently it has helped in my case.
It was not until I was sitting in on some Celebrating Recovery classes since I am on the board of a halfway house and wanted to better to learn about addiction and recovery since that had never been a problem for me I thought. The chapter on Denial hit me like a ton of bricks. I suddenly saw I was no better than the guy with needle tracks.
I was binging because I liked the high to keep on keepin on the doctor mentioned yesterday. At the time I did not even medically understand how carbs could be addicting to some people. My uncles on my dad's side all died directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse so I knew not to touch it with a obsessive compulsive nature.
Do I care about others? I will run with what the people watch me daily in action. I can not and will not try to make others act right? I will not make false medical statements about others like some have said about me.
Before I found MFP at age 63 I had already decided I was though with diet and exercise for weight loss because after being up and down for 40 years and then the heaviest of my life I knew there had to be a better way. I did not want to become homebound and die prematurely so I made working to live to be 110 and walking and talking the entire way my stated goal but I was still binge eating if I was around sugar and grain based foods.
Upon realizing I was a carb addict I finally stopped going by the Dairy Queen every day on my way home after just eating a full meal. It was a hellish two weeks and so so for another two and just kind of OK for the next two months. I knew several that got away from depending on alcohol and drugs so that surely I could do the same with carbs.
We can cut out alcohol totally but we can not cut out FOOD totally. We can not even stay away from where food is in most cases. The wife and teenage kids keep right on eating the carbs that I was eating. My carb addiction was my problem and I had no right to expect them to leave off carbs so I set down to a table full of carbs but there are even more carbs around me at McDonalds (they to reopen in 90 minutes ).
Tonight I was reading on what the Sumer people ate like 5000 years ago and they ate mainly carbs and most of the people in the Blue Zones live on carbs but there were no highly processed carbs in the diets of either groups just mentioned.
Like my friends that have stopped drinking would like to see others stop harming themselves with alcohol I would like to see that food wise but just because going low carb has or is resolving a ton of my 40 years of health issues I have no way to know if my WOE will help them or not.
It does bother me when some say medically speaking one can not be addicted to carbs but I in the back of my mind they are not saying that to harm others directly but just have not studied the subject. It is true on most any forum most readers never post and that is the ones that concern me when people repeatedly post false medical statements.
Best of success to all eating the way that works best for you.
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.11 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Hey I went a day without eating at McDonalds because the suckers locked me out. By the way it is a great place if one wants to eat low carb. I am really like their 200 calorie large coffee.
I know some do not see out of control (binge) eating an eating disorder. I do not know why I reacted to sugar and grains so badly. While the forty years of binging wrecked my health by fusing joints from head to toe I know the side effects will not go away but it has helped with the pain and mental fog.
I make no claims for what keto will for others but just state while I did it accidently it has helped in my case.
It was not until I was sitting in on some Celebrating Recovery classes since I am on the board of a halfway house and wanted to better to learn about addiction and recovery since that had never been a problem for me I thought. The chapter on Denial hit me like a ton of bricks. I suddenly saw I was no better than the guy with needle tracks.
I was binging because I liked the high to keep on keepin on the doctor mentioned yesterday. At the time I did not even medically understand how carbs could be addicting to some people. My uncles on my dad's side all died directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse so I knew not to touch it with a obsessive compulsive nature.
Do I care about others? I will run with what the people watch me daily in action. I can not and will not try to make others act right? I will not make false medical statements about others like some have said about me.
Before I found MFP at age 63 I had already decided I was though with diet and exercise for weight loss because after being up and down for 40 years and then the heaviest of my life I knew there had to be a better way. I did not want to become homebound and die prematurely so I made working to live to be 110 and walking and talking the entire way my stated goal but I was still binge eating if I was around sugar and grain based foods.
Upon realizing I was a carb addict I finally stopped going by the Dairy Queen every day on my way home after just eating a full meal. It was a hellish two weeks and so so for another two and just kind of OK for the next two months. I knew several that got away from depending on alcohol and drugs so that surely I could do the same with carbs.
We can cut out alcohol totally but we can not cut out FOOD totally. We can not even stay away from where food is in most cases. The wife and teenage kids keep right on eating the carbs that I was eating. My carb addiction was my problem and I had no right to expect them to leave off carbs so I set down to a table full of carbs but there are even more carbs around me at McDonalds (they to reopen in 90 minutes ).
Tonight I was reading on what the Sumer people ate like 5000 years ago and they ate mainly carbs and most of the people in the Blue Zones live on carbs but there were no highly processed carbs in the diets of either groups just mentioned.
Like my friends that have stopped drinking would like to see others stop harming themselves with alcohol I would like to see that food wise but just because going low carb has or is resolving a ton of my 40 years of health issues I have no way to know if my WOE will help them or not.
It does bother me when some say medically speaking one can not be addicted to carbs but I in the back of my mind they are not saying that to harm others directly but just have not studied the subject. It is true on most any forum most readers never post and that is the ones that concern me when people repeatedly post false medical statements.
Best of success to all eating the way that works best for you.
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.16 -
diannethegeek wrote: »It's sad, but seeing the way health care providers speak on these message boards causes me to trust doctors less and less. Making up eating disorders? That's just harmful nonsense, there.
He may indeed have an doctorate degree in Optometry, if his own writing is to be believed. But at the same time, he either never used it or only worked as an optometrist for five years in the late 1980/early 90s, by his own hand as well. He is 26 years removed from the professional ethics of any healthcare profession.
As such, please do not consider him a healthcare provider and base your opinion of real doctors on him/his words. It'd be the same as saying because the original topic of this thread - Dr. Fung - you trust all legitimate doctors less and less. Even though you know Fung is part of the long, vile, tradition of "doctors" who use their credentials for no purpose other than to profit from peddling pseudoscience. Frequently, because they are/were rhymes-with-kitty doctors and can't hack it as competent ones.5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Hey I went a day without eating at McDonalds because the suckers locked me out. By the way it is a great place if one wants to eat low carb. I am really like their 200 calorie large coffee.
I know some do not see out of control (binge) eating an eating disorder. I do not know why I reacted to sugar and grains so badly. While the forty years of binging wrecked my health by fusing joints from head to toe I know the side effects will not go away but it has helped with the pain and mental fog.
I make no claims for what keto will for others but just state while I did it accidently it has helped in my case.
It was not until I was sitting in on some Celebrating Recovery classes since I am on the board of a halfway house and wanted to better to learn about addiction and recovery since that had never been a problem for me I thought. The chapter on Denial hit me like a ton of bricks. I suddenly saw I was no better than the guy with needle tracks.
I was binging because I liked the high to keep on keepin on the doctor mentioned yesterday. At the time I did not even medically understand how carbs could be addicting to some people. My uncles on my dad's side all died directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse so I knew not to touch it with a obsessive compulsive nature.
Do I care about others? I will run with what the people watch me daily in action. I can not and will not try to make others act right? I will not make false medical statements about others like some have said about me.
Before I found MFP at age 63 I had already decided I was though with diet and exercise for weight loss because after being up and down for 40 years and then the heaviest of my life I knew there had to be a better way. I did not want to become homebound and die prematurely so I made working to live to be 110 and walking and talking the entire way my stated goal but I was still binge eating if I was around sugar and grain based foods.
Upon realizing I was a carb addict I finally stopped going by the Dairy Queen every day on my way home after just eating a full meal. It was a hellish two weeks and so so for another two and just kind of OK for the next two months. I knew several that got away from depending on alcohol and drugs so that surely I could do the same with carbs.
We can cut out alcohol totally but we can not cut out FOOD totally. We can not even stay away from where food is in most cases. The wife and teenage kids keep right on eating the carbs that I was eating. My carb addiction was my problem and I had no right to expect them to leave off carbs so I set down to a table full of carbs but there are even more carbs around me at McDonalds (they to reopen in 90 minutes ).
Tonight I was reading on what the Sumer people ate like 5000 years ago and they ate mainly carbs and most of the people in the Blue Zones live on carbs but there were no highly processed carbs in the diets of either groups just mentioned.
Like my friends that have stopped drinking would like to see others stop harming themselves with alcohol I would like to see that food wise but just because going low carb has or is resolving a ton of my 40 years of health issues I have no way to know if my WOE will help them or not.
It does bother me when some say medically speaking one can not be addicted to carbs but I in the back of my mind they are not saying that to harm others directly but just have not studied the subject. It is true on most any forum most readers never post and that is the ones that concern me when people repeatedly post false medical statements.
Best of success to all eating the way that works best for you.
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.
You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didnt get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.16 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Hey I went a day without eating at McDonalds because the suckers locked me out. By the way it is a great place if one wants to eat low carb. I am really like their 200 calorie large coffee.
I know some do not see out of control (binge) eating an eating disorder. I do not know why I reacted to sugar and grains so badly. While the forty years of binging wrecked my health by fusing joints from head to toe I know the side effects will not go away but it has helped with the pain and mental fog.
I make no claims for what keto will for others but just state while I did it accidently it has helped in my case.
It was not until I was sitting in on some Celebrating Recovery classes since I am on the board of a halfway house and wanted to better to learn about addiction and recovery since that had never been a problem for me I thought. The chapter on Denial hit me like a ton of bricks. I suddenly saw I was no better than the guy with needle tracks.
I was binging because I liked the high to keep on keepin on the doctor mentioned yesterday. At the time I did not even medically understand how carbs could be addicting to some people. My uncles on my dad's side all died directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse so I knew not to touch it with a obsessive compulsive nature.
Do I care about others? I will run with what the people watch me daily in action. I can not and will not try to make others act right? I will not make false medical statements about others like some have said about me.
Before I found MFP at age 63 I had already decided I was though with diet and exercise for weight loss because after being up and down for 40 years and then the heaviest of my life I knew there had to be a better way. I did not want to become homebound and die prematurely so I made working to live to be 110 and walking and talking the entire way my stated goal but I was still binge eating if I was around sugar and grain based foods.
Upon realizing I was a carb addict I finally stopped going by the Dairy Queen every day on my way home after just eating a full meal. It was a hellish two weeks and so so for another two and just kind of OK for the next two months. I knew several that got away from depending on alcohol and drugs so that surely I could do the same with carbs.
We can cut out alcohol totally but we can not cut out FOOD totally. We can not even stay away from where food is in most cases. The wife and teenage kids keep right on eating the carbs that I was eating. My carb addiction was my problem and I had no right to expect them to leave off carbs so I set down to a table full of carbs but there are even more carbs around me at McDonalds (they to reopen in 90 minutes ).
Tonight I was reading on what the Sumer people ate like 5000 years ago and they ate mainly carbs and most of the people in the Blue Zones live on carbs but there were no highly processed carbs in the diets of either groups just mentioned.
Like my friends that have stopped drinking would like to see others stop harming themselves with alcohol I would like to see that food wise but just because going low carb has or is resolving a ton of my 40 years of health issues I have no way to know if my WOE will help them or not.
It does bother me when some say medically speaking one can not be addicted to carbs but I in the back of my mind they are not saying that to harm others directly but just have not studied the subject. It is true on most any forum most readers never post and that is the ones that concern me when people repeatedly post false medical statements.
Best of success to all eating the way that works best for you.
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.
You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didnt get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
Getting fat or even obese came after the sugar/carb damage (spontaneous joint fusing) was well underway. The Ankylosing Spondylitis got started in my teens as I now have learned more about AS over the last 40 years since the doctors labeled it AS.
In this thread I was just supporting Dr. Jason Fung's research about the useless concept of calories based on me personally learning that in my case the kind of calories that I eat is key to me reducing my health risks including obesity is more important than total calorie count because my new WOE soon addressed my binge eating for some reason.
No one become obese without eating too many calories. No one over eats without some cause. I was 63 before I learned my binging was related to eating sugar or any other highly processed carb based food sources. When my binging on sugar based foods stopped by mental choice to eat no more than 50 grams of carbs daily yet keep my daily calorie count in the 2000-2500 calorie range my pain was the first thing addressed by my new WOE started Oct 2014. After 6 weeks the weight loss slowly started but I had been losing inches well before the weigh loss started. I have actually lost another 40 pounds as a side effect of my new WOE that somehow cut out my bingeing.
I found the most important thing is not how many calories that I was eat but what kind of calories that I was eating that were the cause of my overeating and bingeing. I felt totally helpless to stop eating the high carb food. I knew it was in the process of killing me. I saw the sadness in the kids faces when I could not do things with them like the fathers of their friends did with their kids. I never realized it was the sugar laden junk food that was leading to the binge eating on a regular bases until I was 63.
It was on a hunch out of the blue as to how to avoid starting Enbrel injections 7 Nov 2014 that I finally left sugar and all forms of all grains. It was still hard to get off of the yummy food as you called it. I had to visualize myself in my coffin at the funeral home and for hours hearing people walk by saying, "Well he finally ate enough to kill his fat butt."
In the end it was my desire to live with health as long as possible that lead me to find a new WOE and stick with it for several years now. This is just what happened in my case and who knows if it would work the same way for another. In hindsight I do wish I had known to change my WOE 40 years ago and had a more normal life but what is important is what I do with the rest of my life.16 -
I alpsulemon wrote:You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didn't get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
But, from what I've read (Lustig etc), the Fructose half of sugar (sucrose is 50/50 glucose/fructose) can only be processed by the liver (and not by any other cell as glucose can be). The liver turns fructose into fat (apparently). So sugar is different from most carbs in this regard. Also, sugar in soda etc seems to facilitate large caloric intake with relatively tiny effect on satiety.
I also find the idea that foods that combine high amounts of fat and carbs together being particularly obesogenic quite compelling. I think I'm right in saying (regurgitating) that fat and carbs don't exist together in high quantities in nature... Meats are high protein and high or medium fat, as are eggs. High fat veggies such as avocado are relatively low carb as are other nuts.
We know that ancient humans have long thrived on high carb, low fat diets (Asians) and others have thrived on high protein, high fat, low carb (Inuit, Masai etc). Is it possible we have screwed ourselves by combining high fat and high carb in the Western diet, predominantly in things like cake, ice cream, fries, donuts etc?
My (still evolving) understanding of energy metabolism is that, when glucose (carbs) are high, the body will burn glucose preferentially, meaning fat in the diet will get stored. So, if you want to eat high fat, you'd better be low carb.??
10 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Hey I went a day without eating at McDonalds because the suckers locked me out. By the way it is a great place if one wants to eat low carb. I am really like their 200 calorie large coffee.
I know some do not see out of control (binge) eating an eating disorder. I do not know why I reacted to sugar and grains so badly. While the forty years of binging wrecked my health by fusing joints from head to toe I know the side effects will not go away but it has helped with the pain and mental fog.
I make no claims for what keto will for others but just state while I did it accidently it has helped in my case.
It was not until I was sitting in on some Celebrating Recovery classes since I am on the board of a halfway house and wanted to better to learn about addiction and recovery since that had never been a problem for me I thought. The chapter on Denial hit me like a ton of bricks. I suddenly saw I was no better than the guy with needle tracks.
I was binging because I liked the high to keep on keepin on the doctor mentioned yesterday. At the time I did not even medically understand how carbs could be addicting to some people. My uncles on my dad's side all died directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse so I knew not to touch it with a obsessive compulsive nature.
Do I care about others? I will run with what the people watch me daily in action. I can not and will not try to make others act right? I will not make false medical statements about others like some have said about me.
Before I found MFP at age 63 I had already decided I was though with diet and exercise for weight loss because after being up and down for 40 years and then the heaviest of my life I knew there had to be a better way. I did not want to become homebound and die prematurely so I made working to live to be 110 and walking and talking the entire way my stated goal but I was still binge eating if I was around sugar and grain based foods.
Upon realizing I was a carb addict I finally stopped going by the Dairy Queen every day on my way home after just eating a full meal. It was a hellish two weeks and so so for another two and just kind of OK for the next two months. I knew several that got away from depending on alcohol and drugs so that surely I could do the same with carbs.
We can cut out alcohol totally but we can not cut out FOOD totally. We can not even stay away from where food is in most cases. The wife and teenage kids keep right on eating the carbs that I was eating. My carb addiction was my problem and I had no right to expect them to leave off carbs so I set down to a table full of carbs but there are even more carbs around me at McDonalds (they to reopen in 90 minutes ).
Tonight I was reading on what the Sumer people ate like 5000 years ago and they ate mainly carbs and most of the people in the Blue Zones live on carbs but there were no highly processed carbs in the diets of either groups just mentioned.
Like my friends that have stopped drinking would like to see others stop harming themselves with alcohol I would like to see that food wise but just because going low carb has or is resolving a ton of my 40 years of health issues I have no way to know if my WOE will help them or not.
It does bother me when some say medically speaking one can not be addicted to carbs but I in the back of my mind they are not saying that to harm others directly but just have not studied the subject. It is true on most any forum most readers never post and that is the ones that concern me when people repeatedly post false medical statements.
Best of success to all eating the way that works best for you.
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.
You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didnt get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
For some it is the carbs, and especially the sugars and highly refined carbs.
I over ate refined carbs when mixed with fats - hyper palatable foods. I over ate carbs/sugars like jujubes, raisins or noodles. I never over eat fats when they are on their own or mixed with proteins- only when paired with carbs.
Sometimes it is the carbs, although some say it never is.2 -
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.
You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didnt get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
Can I suggest you read up on basic high school biology.
Any carbohydrate (sugar) creates an insulin response which triggers the body to utilise sugar for energy and any excess is converted to fat, especially if the glycogen stores on the body are full. This means that the energy from carbs is short lived and hunger strikes again fairly quickly thus over-eating is likely, especially when consuming simple carbs like sucrose.
Excess fat can be stored on the body, however when the body is used to a high macro ratio of fat it will oxidise this fat as energy over sugar as it is a steady and easily available energy source, meaning it leaves the body. Eating a high fat diet is energy intensive on the body and requires energy to break the fat down for energy meaning that you feel satiated for longer as fat is broken down in the stomach (smaller fat molecules) and in the gut where it is then absorbed by the body, as much longer process than sugar. Carbs, as soon as they touch your saliva are starting to be broken down and is generally absorbed from the stomach.
Google Amylase, Protease and Lipase.
Sugar = Insulin = Fat storage, its the entire reason why a low carb diet works...
29 -
I alYou just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didn't get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
But, from what I've read (Lustig etc), the Fructose half of sugar (sucrose is 50/50 glucose/fructose) can only be processed by the liver (and not by any other cell as glucose can be). The liver turns fructose into fat (apparently). So sugar is different from most carbs in this regard. Also, sugar in soda etc seems to facilitate large caloric intake with relatively tiny effect on satiety.
I also find the idea that foods that combine high amounts of fat and carbs together being particularly obesogenic quite compelling. I think I'm right in saying (regurgitating) that fat and carbs don't exist together in high quantities in nature... Meats are high protein and high or medium fat, as are eggs. High fat veggies such as avocado are relatively low carb as are other nuts.
We know that ancient humans have long thrived on high carb, low fat diets (Asians) and others have thrived on high protein, high fat, low carb (Inuit, Masai etc). Is it possible we have screwed ourselves by combining high fat and high carb in the Western diet, predominantly in things like cake, ice cream, fries, donuts etc?
My (still evolving) understanding of energy metabolism is that, when glucose (carbs) are high, the body will burn glucose preferentially, meaning fat in the diet will get stored. So, if you want to eat high fat, you'd better be low carb.??
You are 90% of the way there with this. There is another often overlooked angle from excess carb consumption and that is inflammation within the body and the mechanism that this invokes to cause heart disease. High carb is atherogenic (causes arterial plaque) in general and high fat is not.
here is a great video that shows just how these things are related and work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZu52duIqno 22 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Hey I went a day without eating at McDonalds because the suckers locked me out. By the way it is a great place if one wants to eat low carb. I am really like their 200 calorie large coffee.
I know some do not see out of control (binge) eating an eating disorder. I do not know why I reacted to sugar and grains so badly. While the forty years of binging wrecked my health by fusing joints from head to toe I know the side effects will not go away but it has helped with the pain and mental fog.
I make no claims for what keto will for others but just state while I did it accidently it has helped in my case.
It was not until I was sitting in on some Celebrating Recovery classes since I am on the board of a halfway house and wanted to better to learn about addiction and recovery since that had never been a problem for me I thought. The chapter on Denial hit me like a ton of bricks. I suddenly saw I was no better than the guy with needle tracks.
I was binging because I liked the high to keep on keepin on the doctor mentioned yesterday. At the time I did not even medically understand how carbs could be addicting to some people. My uncles on my dad's side all died directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse so I knew not to touch it with a obsessive compulsive nature.
Do I care about others? I will run with what the people watch me daily in action. I can not and will not try to make others act right? I will not make false medical statements about others like some have said about me.
Before I found MFP at age 63 I had already decided I was though with diet and exercise for weight loss because after being up and down for 40 years and then the heaviest of my life I knew there had to be a better way. I did not want to become homebound and die prematurely so I made working to live to be 110 and walking and talking the entire way my stated goal but I was still binge eating if I was around sugar and grain based foods.
Upon realizing I was a carb addict I finally stopped going by the Dairy Queen every day on my way home after just eating a full meal. It was a hellish two weeks and so so for another two and just kind of OK for the next two months. I knew several that got away from depending on alcohol and drugs so that surely I could do the same with carbs.
We can cut out alcohol totally but we can not cut out FOOD totally. We can not even stay away from where food is in most cases. The wife and teenage kids keep right on eating the carbs that I was eating. My carb addiction was my problem and I had no right to expect them to leave off carbs so I set down to a table full of carbs but there are even more carbs around me at McDonalds (they to reopen in 90 minutes ).
Tonight I was reading on what the Sumer people ate like 5000 years ago and they ate mainly carbs and most of the people in the Blue Zones live on carbs but there were no highly processed carbs in the diets of either groups just mentioned.
Like my friends that have stopped drinking would like to see others stop harming themselves with alcohol I would like to see that food wise but just because going low carb has or is resolving a ton of my 40 years of health issues I have no way to know if my WOE will help them or not.
It does bother me when some say medically speaking one can not be addicted to carbs but I in the back of my mind they are not saying that to harm others directly but just have not studied the subject. It is true on most any forum most readers never post and that is the ones that concern me when people repeatedly post false medical statements.
Best of success to all eating the way that works best for you.
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.
You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didnt get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
Getting fat or even obese came after the sugar/carb damage (spontaneous joint fusing) was well underway. The Ankylosing Spondylitis got started in my teens as I now have learned more about AS over the last 40 years since the doctors labeled it AS.
In this thread I was just supporting Dr. Jason Fung's research about the useless concept of calories based on me personally learning that in my case the kind of calories that I eat is key to me reducing my health risks including obesity is more important than total calorie count because my new WOE soon addressed my binge eating for some reason.
No one become obese without eating too many calories. No one over eats without some cause. I was 63 before I learned my binging was related to eating sugar or any other highly processed carb based food sources. When my binging on sugar based foods stopped by mental choice to eat no more than 50 grams of carbs daily yet keep my daily calorie count in the 2000-2500 calorie range my pain was the first thing addressed by my new WOE started Oct 2014. After 6 weeks the weight loss slowly started but I had been losing inches well before the weigh loss started. I have actually lost another 40 pounds as a side effect of my new WOE that somehow cut out my bingeing.
I found the most important thing is not how many calories that I was eat but what kind of calories that I was eating that were the cause of my overeating and bingeing. I felt totally helpless to stop eating the high carb food. I knew it was in the process of killing me. I saw the sadness in the kids faces when I could not do things with them like the fathers of their friends did with their kids. I never realized it was the sugar laden junk food that was leading to the binge eating on a regular bases until I was 63.
It was on a hunch out of the blue as to how to avoid starting Enbrel injections 7 Nov 2014 that I finally left sugar and all forms of all grains. It was still hard to get off of the yummy food as you called it. I had to visualize myself in my coffin at the funeral home and for hours hearing people walk by saying, "Well he finally ate enough to kill his fat butt."
In the end it was my desire to live with health as long as possible that lead me to find a new WOE and stick with it for several years now. This is just what happened in my case and who knows if it would work the same way for another. In hindsight I do wish I had known to change my WOE 40 years ago and had a more normal life but what is important is what I do with the rest of my life.
This. This right here is relatable to others. People can relate to binge eating on carbs and sugar. They are foods people enjoy a lot. They bring pleasure. People can relate to eating these calorie dense foods and gaining weight from them. People can relate to excess weight causing health issues.
My only issue with what you spoke of was connecting it with an eating disorder. Which it wasnt. Because people with eating disorders don't just have an eating disorder based on one group of foods in a macro category. I ate everything. Nothing was off limits. There would be no lifestyle change that would prevent me from binge eating. There was no amount of wanting to stop that actually allowed me to stop. That was my only issue. I do believe you had struggles. And you did fight a long time. But you found a solution. It worked. It helped. People with eating disorders don't get that luxury. We really have to fight and even with help we will still often have binges anyway. But we fight and get help so the binges aren't every day for years for the rest of our lives.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Hey I went a day without eating at McDonalds because the suckers locked me out. By the way it is a great place if one wants to eat low carb. I am really like their 200 calorie large coffee.
I know some do not see out of control (binge) eating an eating disorder. I do not know why I reacted to sugar and grains so badly. While the forty years of binging wrecked my health by fusing joints from head to toe I know the side effects will not go away but it has helped with the pain and mental fog.
I make no claims for what keto will for others but just state while I did it accidently it has helped in my case.
It was not until I was sitting in on some Celebrating Recovery classes since I am on the board of a halfway house and wanted to better to learn about addiction and recovery since that had never been a problem for me I thought. The chapter on Denial hit me like a ton of bricks. I suddenly saw I was no better than the guy with needle tracks.
I was binging because I liked the high to keep on keepin on the doctor mentioned yesterday. At the time I did not even medically understand how carbs could be addicting to some people. My uncles on my dad's side all died directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse so I knew not to touch it with a obsessive compulsive nature.
Do I care about others? I will run with what the people watch me daily in action. I can not and will not try to make others act right? I will not make false medical statements about others like some have said about me.
Before I found MFP at age 63 I had already decided I was though with diet and exercise for weight loss because after being up and down for 40 years and then the heaviest of my life I knew there had to be a better way. I did not want to become homebound and die prematurely so I made working to live to be 110 and walking and talking the entire way my stated goal but I was still binge eating if I was around sugar and grain based foods.
Upon realizing I was a carb addict I finally stopped going by the Dairy Queen every day on my way home after just eating a full meal. It was a hellish two weeks and so so for another two and just kind of OK for the next two months. I knew several that got away from depending on alcohol and drugs so that surely I could do the same with carbs.
We can cut out alcohol totally but we can not cut out FOOD totally. We can not even stay away from where food is in most cases. The wife and teenage kids keep right on eating the carbs that I was eating. My carb addiction was my problem and I had no right to expect them to leave off carbs so I set down to a table full of carbs but there are even more carbs around me at McDonalds (they to reopen in 90 minutes ).
Tonight I was reading on what the Sumer people ate like 5000 years ago and they ate mainly carbs and most of the people in the Blue Zones live on carbs but there were no highly processed carbs in the diets of either groups just mentioned.
Like my friends that have stopped drinking would like to see others stop harming themselves with alcohol I would like to see that food wise but just because going low carb has or is resolving a ton of my 40 years of health issues I have no way to know if my WOE will help them or not.
It does bother me when some say medically speaking one can not be addicted to carbs but I in the back of my mind they are not saying that to harm others directly but just have not studied the subject. It is true on most any forum most readers never post and that is the ones that concern me when people repeatedly post false medical statements.
Best of success to all eating the way that works best for you.
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.
You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didnt get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
For some it is the carbs, and especially the sugars and highly refined carbs.
I over ate refined carbs when mixed with fats - hyper palatable foods. I over ate carbs/sugars like jujubes, raisins or noodles. I never over eat fats when they are on their own or mixed with proteins- only when paired with carbs.
Sometimes it is the carbs, although some say it never is.
I would say that it is easier to overeat foods that are high in fat and carbs because these foods taste so good. We all wish chips, donuts and cakes were as good for us as kale.4 -
pumasareace wrote: »
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.
You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didnt get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
Can I suggest you read up on basic high school biology.
Any carbohydrate (sugar) creates an insulin response which triggers the body to utilise sugar for energy and any excess is converted to fat, especially if the glycogen stores on the body are full. This means that the energy from carbs is short lived and hunger strikes again fairly quickly thus over-eating is likely, especially when consuming simple carbs like sucrose.
Excess fat can be stored on the body, however when the body is used to a high macro ratio of fat it will oxidise this fat as energy over sugar as it is a steady and easily available energy source, meaning it leaves the body. Eating a high fat diet is energy intensive on the body and requires energy to break the fat down for energy meaning that you feel satiated for longer as fat is broken down in the stomach (smaller fat molecules) and in the gut where it is then absorbed by the body, as much longer process than sugar. Carbs, as soon as they touch your saliva are starting to be broken down and is generally absorbed from the stomach.
Google Amylase, Protease and Lipase.
Sugar = Insulin = Fat storage, its the entire reason why a low carb diet works...
I'd suggest you might need to do some further research as you are perpetuating the same standard information that comes from biased sources within the LCHF community.
First, yes, carbohydrates stimulate insulin; similarly, so do protein. Insulin is secreted by the pancreas in response to blood glucose in the intestines. As a results, insulin acts as a key to cells to store nutrients. This is the primary job of insulin. Yes, insulin is a growth hormone, but it only inhibits lipolysis (means it doesn't prevent it completely). Having said that, when carbs are consumed, there are three things that can occur: 1. oxidized as energy, 2. stored as glycogen in the muscles and/or liver, and 3. stored as fat. In order for that to occur, it has to go through a process called de novo lipogensis. The efficacy for such a thing to happen is small... in fact, its been shown to only occur roughly 30% of the time (IIRC). The average person has a storage capacity of 300 to 500g of glycogen (up to 700g if you are active), so considering that, it is unlikely to maintain those levels unless you are in an overfed situation.
What's laughable is that you assume that once people eat carbs that they are automatically hungry. If you are eating quality carbs (fruits, veggies, oats, quinoa, whole grains (especially fibrous ones)), then it won't be an issue. Even more so, if you are consuming adequate protein along with it.
Fat vs carb utilization. It literally does not matter which one is higher. It's the net difference between fat and carb oxidation and energy balance. Plant based dieters would have high levels of carb oxidation and low levels of fat oxidation. Keto'ers have high levels of fat oxidation and lower levels of carb oxidation. Non of that means squat. Keto'ers have higher levels of fat oxidation because, you guessed it, they eat more fat and store more fat.
Simple videos from Dr. Layne Norton; a scientist who actually holds a PhD in nutritional science (not an MD who wants to play scientist); also holds power lifting and bodybuilding records.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eq8VObUFsk
And the link below is Dr. James Kreiger
https://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/
Now since you recommended google searches, lets add some for you:
Acylation Stimulating Protein and Glucose-dependent Insulintropic Peptide: Two hormones triggers by dietary fat consumption which inhibit the enzyme Hormone Sensitive Lipase which is the fat burning hormone. Then also, let's take it further and google Thermal Effect of Food; In order the most energetic to metabolize in order is protein<--carbohyrdates<--fat. Fat is the easiest to store as body fat.
LCHF only works for those who are satiety by fat (certainly not me). There is some research that would suggest that those who are insulin resistance respond better to LC, and those who are IS respond better to lower fat.
And finally, if you look at all of the healthiest and longest living cultures in the world, they all share one thing is common... they are high carbohydrate and low animal protein consumption. So while I am all and support those who want to follow it, keto and low carb is nothing special. It doesn't make you lose body fat any faster than any other diet. It doesn't have higher compliance statistics or anything in that manor. Right now, it's just the diet of the day. Many of it's proponents are promoting the same non sense that got promoted with the low fat crazy. Going from one extreme to the next extreme, IMO, is not helpful and realistically, in another 10 years we will fall into the middle (similar to zone).26 -
I alpsulemon wrote:You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didn't get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
But, from what I've read (Lustig etc), the Fructose half of sugar (sucrose is 50/50 glucose/fructose) can only be processed by the liver (and not by any other cell as glucose can be). The liver turns fructose into fat (apparently). So sugar is different from most carbs in this regard. Also, sugar in soda etc seems to facilitate large caloric intake with relatively tiny effect on satiety.
I also find the idea that foods that combine high amounts of fat and carbs together being particularly obesogenic quite compelling. I think I'm right in saying (regurgitating) that fat and carbs don't exist together in high quantities in nature... Meats are high protein and high or medium fat, as are eggs. High fat veggies such as avocado are relatively low carb as are other nuts.
We know that ancient humans have long thrived on high carb, low fat diets (Asians) and others have thrived on high protein, high fat, low carb (Inuit, Masai etc). Is it possible we have screwed ourselves by combining high fat and high carb in the Western diet, predominantly in things like cake, ice cream, fries, donuts etc?
My (still evolving) understanding of energy metabolism is that, when glucose (carbs) are high, the body will burn glucose preferentially, meaning fat in the diet will get stored. So, if you want to eat high fat, you'd better be low carb.??
We screwed ourselves by making it too easy to access food. You can't go more than 10 feet these days without prevalent access to food, especially low quality, high calorie foods.
Regarding the bold. The only thing that matters is addressing energy balance requirements. If you can do that with high carb high fat, ok, but I wouldn't suggest it because if you want to lose weight, there is no more important macro than protein. It helps maintain muscle mass and metabolism. Carbs can support muscle maintenance since it prevents protein degradation (muscle protein breakdown).
And I wouldn't put much support into Lustig. Most of his experience are very poorly designed. Many do not even have control groups. He is right that fructose is only metabolized in the liver, but that is it's purpose. Personally, I get a ton of fructose in the form of fruit. But that fructose will be stored as glycogen primarily.
9 -
Calories are a unit of measure - not a substance. Calories are how we accurately measure our weight in relation to what we are eating. That is factual information. CICO is king. This is not a dispute. This is fact.5
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Calories are a unit of measure - not a substance. Calories are how we accurately measure our weight in relation to what we are eating. That is factual information. CICO is king. This is not a dispute. This is fact.
Ironically, people, including Dr. Fung, still try to dispute that.4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Upon realizing I was a carb addict I finally stopped going by the Dairy Queen every day on my way home after just eating a full meal.
Unless you just mean getting a soda (and why do that at Dairy Queen), all the so-called "carbs" at Dairy Queen are carbs+fat, in reality. So seems you were addicted (if that's the right word) to carbs + fat, not "carbs." Some of these foods are carbs + fat + protein (a burger, a pizza if you have meat on it especially).
From what you've said, you had a poor diet and found it easier to control and felt better when you cut out sugar and grains which -- since they are in many junk foods -- limited your diet some and probably forced you to eat a better diet and more nutrient dense foods that you were less likely to overeat (either because you did not have a habit of overeating them or in some cases did not find them as hyperpalatable).
That all makes sense. Claiming "carb addiction" does not.Tonight I was reading on what the Sumer people ate like 5000 years ago and they ate mainly carbs and most of the people in the Blue Zones live on carbs but there were no highly processed carbs in the diets of either groups just mentioned.
You do know it's possible to eat carbs without them being so-called "highly processed carbs" (by which I think you mainly mean carbs mixed with fat anyway, or perhaps fast food, which you still seem to eat more of than almost anyone I know), right? Most of the carbs I eat are vegetables, fruit, tubers (potatoes and sweet potatoes, and I don't mean fries or chips, just chopped and roasted by me with a little olive oil), legumes, whole grains. Not that different than the kinds of carbs one would eat in a more traditional diet.
Huge difference between a traditional diet and that of most in the US? Fiber.Like my friends that have stopped drinking would like to see others stop harming themselves with alcohol I would like to see that food wise but just because going low carb has or is resolving a ton of my 40 years of health issues I have no way to know if my WOE will help them or not.
What bothers me is that you seem to constantly generalize about how others eat if they eat a more typical amount of carbs based on how you used to eat, but from what you've said your diet, again, was very poor, and just because someone isn't low carb doesn't mean they eat a poor diet. And similarly, it's possible to eat a pretty decent diet on even very low carbs (I'm not sure it is on under 20 g, as I don't think you can fit in enough veg, nuts, so on, and I happen to think it's better to include some fruit and legumes anyway, which is tough even on 50 g, but you can absolutely eat a nutrient-dense diet on keto, yeah), but it is also very, very easy to eat a pretty nutrient poor diet on keto (even if you happen to be less likely to overeat since you've eliminated the items that tend to be most available and over which you had less control). I think even in the latter case it can be beneficial for people, but hardly a change that would be beneficial to most others.It does bother me when some say medically speaking one can not be addicted to carbs but I in the back of my mind they are not saying that to harm others directly but just have not studied the subject.
Let's just think of this logically -- you are clearly not really talking about an addiction (even if that were the correct word) to carbs. Do you go nuts on carrots or a plain potato or broccoli or lentils? You are talking about specific types of carbs generally (if from fast food restaurants or in the form of junk food) mixed with fat (and maybe protein).
Is it possible you may have had some kind of behavioral addiction to foods you found hyperpalatable? Sure -- I think the term "addiction" is overused, but if that's how you like to think of it, I think that's a real thing (it's basically a form of habit plus self-comfort). I think I have issues in that direction too (I call it emotional eating) and some dietary changes helped me with that too, although a lot more of it was working on the behaviors. And as someone who quit drinking due to serious issues with that I see some real connections but also that there are significant differences. (I think some people who are morbidly obese and also some who do truly binge have even closer links -- one interview I heard with a morbidly obese person who was basically throwing her life away sounded to me a lot like addiction, for sure. But when you suggest that ANY overeating = this, it's clear you are not talking about the same thing. Liking cheese or cookies or (ugh, not my thing) fast food or steak or toast with butter or whatever so much that you plan to eat a certain amount and instead eat more is normal and human and does not mean you are an addict. And yet occasionally doing this and little bits of excessive eating tasty available foods on a daily basis can absolutely lead to someone getting overweight or even obese over time. Our food environment makes overeating really easy for most even those of us who never really ate fast food or the specific kinds of carbs/fats you seem to have been into, and who would never have daily gone to Dairy Queen or whatever. It's even easy for many people who concern themselves with eating a nutrient-dense diet. Overabundance is really common in the US, and food is such an easy pleasure these days.
It's also not clear that you are talking about "bingeing" (the word you keep using) vs. overeating foods you think are tasty.
It also sounds like your health condition is better not consuming starch and sugars, at least not in the form you tended to consume them, so if that works for you, great. (Another poster with a similar condition is trying a low starch diet, and otherwise eating a pretty classically nutrient-dense diet not particularly low carb, and that seems to be helping him, so I assume different things work for different people when it comes to health conditions.) It's the suggestion that the rest of us eat poorly since we eat carbs and don't get a huge percentage of our calories from McD's breakfast items and coffee with lots of cream that grates. And calling just overeating an ED (claiming it's impossible to be overweight without a medical condition, for example), as if there weren't more to an ED.13 -
pumasareace wrote: »
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.
You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didnt get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
Can I suggest you read up on basic high school biology.
Any carbohydrate (sugar) creates an insulin response which triggers the body to utilise sugar for energy and any excess is converted to fat, especially if the glycogen stores on the body are full. This means that the energy from carbs is short lived and hunger strikes again fairly quickly thus over-eating is likely, especially when consuming simple carbs like sucrose.
Excess fat can be stored on the body, however when the body is used to a high macro ratio of fat it will oxidise this fat as energy over sugar as it is a steady and easily available energy source, meaning it leaves the body. Eating a high fat diet is energy intensive on the body and requires energy to break the fat down for energy meaning that you feel satiated for longer as fat is broken down in the stomach (smaller fat molecules) and in the gut where it is then absorbed by the body, as much longer process than sugar. Carbs, as soon as they touch your saliva are starting to be broken down and is generally absorbed from the stomach.
Google Amylase, Protease and Lipase.
Sugar = Insulin = Fat storage, its the entire reason why a low carb diet works...
A low carbohydrate diet "works" (for some) because it's sometimes easier to consistently eat in a deficit when carbohydrates are limited. Without a deficit, it isn't going to create weight loss.
And some people don't have a problem with carbohydrates. I get 50-60% of my calories from them and I find that my energy is great and I don't struggle with cravings.8 -
pumasareace wrote: »Sugar = Insulin = Fat storage, its the entire reason why a low carb diet works...
Low carb diets work because people on them eat less calories.
But I still don't get why Fung, Taubes et. al. keep lying about these things? Are they really able to make a buck doing this?
12 -
pumasareace wrote: »
I alYou just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didn't get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
But, from what I've read (Lustig etc), the Fructose half of sugar (sucrose is 50/50 glucose/fructose) can only be processed by the liver (and not by any other cell as glucose can be). The liver turns fructose into fat (apparently). So sugar is different from most carbs in this regard. Also, sugar in soda etc seems to facilitate large caloric intake with relatively tiny effect on satiety.
I also find the idea that foods that combine high amounts of fat and carbs together being particularly obesogenic quite compelling. I think I'm right in saying (regurgitating) that fat and carbs don't exist together in high quantities in nature... Meats are high protein and high or medium fat, as are eggs. High fat veggies such as avocado are relatively low carb as are other nuts.
We know that ancient humans have long thrived on high carb, low fat diets (Asians) and others have thrived on high protein, high fat, low carb (Inuit, Masai etc). Is it possible we have screwed ourselves by combining high fat and high carb in the Western diet, predominantly in things like cake, ice cream, fries, donuts etc?
My (still evolving) understanding of energy metabolism is that, when glucose (carbs) are high, the body will burn glucose preferentially, meaning fat in the diet will get stored. So, if you want to eat high fat, you'd better be low carb.??
You are 90% of the way there with this. There is another often overlooked angle from excess carb consumption and that is inflammation within the body and the mechanism that this invokes to cause heart disease. High carb is atherogenic (causes arterial plaque) in general and high fat is not.
here is a great video that shows just how these things are related and work.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZu52duIqno
Blue Zones would completely disagree with this nonsense. The funny thing is all these dumb arguments are against processed carbs, which just so happen to be process fats (e.g., baked goods). If you want to look at real carbs, look at the effect of fruits, veggies, whole grains/oats, and other plant based carbs. All of them have been associated with improved metabolic health. Saying carbs cause arterial plaque is ridiculous.
Obesity is what causes chronic inflammation and inflammation is reduced or eliminated through weight loss; that occurs during high carb, low carb and anywhere in between. And if we really want to get technical, exercise drives inflammation as well... and so does fiber. But not all inflammation is bad. In many cases, it's a basic physiological response to a specific stimulus.13 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Hey I went a day without eating at McDonalds because the suckers locked me out. By the way it is a great place if one wants to eat low carb. I am really like their 200 calorie large coffee.
I know some do not see out of control (binge) eating an eating disorder. I do not know why I reacted to sugar and grains so badly. While the forty years of binging wrecked my health by fusing joints from head to toe I know the side effects will not go away but it has helped with the pain and mental fog.
I make no claims for what keto will for others but just state while I did it accidently it has helped in my case.
It was not until I was sitting in on some Celebrating Recovery classes since I am on the board of a halfway house and wanted to better to learn about addiction and recovery since that had never been a problem for me I thought. The chapter on Denial hit me like a ton of bricks. I suddenly saw I was no better than the guy with needle tracks.
I was binging because I liked the high to keep on keepin on the doctor mentioned yesterday. At the time I did not even medically understand how carbs could be addicting to some people. My uncles on my dad's side all died directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse so I knew not to touch it with a obsessive compulsive nature.
Do I care about others? I will run with what the people watch me daily in action. I can not and will not try to make others act right? I will not make false medical statements about others like some have said about me.
Before I found MFP at age 63 I had already decided I was though with diet and exercise for weight loss because after being up and down for 40 years and then the heaviest of my life I knew there had to be a better way. I did not want to become homebound and die prematurely so I made working to live to be 110 and walking and talking the entire way my stated goal but I was still binge eating if I was around sugar and grain based foods.
Upon realizing I was a carb addict I finally stopped going by the Dairy Queen every day on my way home after just eating a full meal. It was a hellish two weeks and so so for another two and just kind of OK for the next two months. I knew several that got away from depending on alcohol and drugs so that surely I could do the same with carbs.
We can cut out alcohol totally but we can not cut out FOOD totally. We can not even stay away from where food is in most cases. The wife and teenage kids keep right on eating the carbs that I was eating. My carb addiction was my problem and I had no right to expect them to leave off carbs so I set down to a table full of carbs but there are even more carbs around me at McDonalds (they to reopen in 90 minutes ).
Tonight I was reading on what the Sumer people ate like 5000 years ago and they ate mainly carbs and most of the people in the Blue Zones live on carbs but there were no highly processed carbs in the diets of either groups just mentioned.
Like my friends that have stopped drinking would like to see others stop harming themselves with alcohol I would like to see that food wise but just because going low carb has or is resolving a ton of my 40 years of health issues I have no way to know if my WOE will help them or not.
It does bother me when some say medically speaking one can not be addicted to carbs but I in the back of my mind they are not saying that to harm others directly but just have not studied the subject. It is true on most any forum most readers never post and that is the ones that concern me when people repeatedly post false medical statements.
Best of success to all eating the way that works best for you.
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.
You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didnt get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
For some it is the carbs, and especially the sugars and highly refined carbs.
I over ate refined carbs when mixed with fats - hyper palatable foods. I over ate carbs/sugars like jujubes, raisins or noodles. I never over eat fats when they are on their own or mixed with proteins- only when paired with carbs.
Sometimes it is the carbs, although some say it never is.
I would say that it is easier to overeat foods that are high in fat and carbs because these foods taste so good. We all wish chips, donuts and cakes were as good for us as kale.
I agree. Fat and carbs together are amazing. Tastes great. Very easy to overeat. Very easy to store that extra as fat. Add a bit of salt and it is very hard to say no to.
I am just saying that i generally will not over eat when the carbs are removed. Corn on the cob with butter and salt tastes great and I could eat a lot of it. Without the butter is still really good. Just butter without the corn though? I would not eat that never mind eat too much of it.
Kale... Yuck. that will forever be just a garnish in my mind. Maybe kale chips... Maybe.3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Hey I went a day without eating at McDonalds because the suckers locked me out. By the way it is a great place if one wants to eat low carb. I am really like their 200 calorie large coffee.
I know some do not see out of control (binge) eating an eating disorder. I do not know why I reacted to sugar and grains so badly. While the forty years of binging wrecked my health by fusing joints from head to toe I know the side effects will not go away but it has helped with the pain and mental fog.
I make no claims for what keto will for others but just state while I did it accidently it has helped in my case.
It was not until I was sitting in on some Celebrating Recovery classes since I am on the board of a halfway house and wanted to better to learn about addiction and recovery since that had never been a problem for me I thought. The chapter on Denial hit me like a ton of bricks. I suddenly saw I was no better than the guy with needle tracks.
I was binging because I liked the high to keep on keepin on the doctor mentioned yesterday. At the time I did not even medically understand how carbs could be addicting to some people. My uncles on my dad's side all died directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse so I knew not to touch it with a obsessive compulsive nature.
Do I care about others? I will run with what the people watch me daily in action. I can not and will not try to make others act right? I will not make false medical statements about others like some have said about me.
Before I found MFP at age 63 I had already decided I was though with diet and exercise for weight loss because after being up and down for 40 years and then the heaviest of my life I knew there had to be a better way. I did not want to become homebound and die prematurely so I made working to live to be 110 and walking and talking the entire way my stated goal but I was still binge eating if I was around sugar and grain based foods.
Upon realizing I was a carb addict I finally stopped going by the Dairy Queen every day on my way home after just eating a full meal. It was a hellish two weeks and so so for another two and just kind of OK for the next two months. I knew several that got away from depending on alcohol and drugs so that surely I could do the same with carbs.
We can cut out alcohol totally but we can not cut out FOOD totally. We can not even stay away from where food is in most cases. The wife and teenage kids keep right on eating the carbs that I was eating. My carb addiction was my problem and I had no right to expect them to leave off carbs so I set down to a table full of carbs but there are even more carbs around me at McDonalds (they to reopen in 90 minutes ).
Tonight I was reading on what the Sumer people ate like 5000 years ago and they ate mainly carbs and most of the people in the Blue Zones live on carbs but there were no highly processed carbs in the diets of either groups just mentioned.
Like my friends that have stopped drinking would like to see others stop harming themselves with alcohol I would like to see that food wise but just because going low carb has or is resolving a ton of my 40 years of health issues I have no way to know if my WOE will help them or not.
It does bother me when some say medically speaking one can not be addicted to carbs but I in the back of my mind they are not saying that to harm others directly but just have not studied the subject. It is true on most any forum most readers never post and that is the ones that concern me when people repeatedly post false medical statements.
Best of success to all eating the way that works best for you.
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.
You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didnt get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
Getting fat or even obese came after the sugar/carb damage (spontaneous joint fusing) was well underway. The Ankylosing Spondylitis got started in my teens as I now have learned more about AS over the last 40 years since the doctors labeled it AS.
In this thread I was just supporting Dr. Jason Fung's research about the useless concept of calories based on me personally learning that in my case the kind of calories that I eat is key to me reducing my health risks including obesity is more important than total calorie count because my new WOE soon addressed my binge eating for some reason.
No one become obese without eating too many calories. No one over eats without some cause. I was 63 before I learned my binging was related to eating sugar or any other highly processed carb based food sources. When my binging on sugar based foods stopped by mental choice to eat no more than 50 grams of carbs daily yet keep my daily calorie count in the 2000-2500 calorie range my pain was the first thing addressed by my new WOE started Oct 2014. After 6 weeks the weight loss slowly started but I had been losing inches well before the weigh loss started. I have actually lost another 40 pounds as a side effect of my new WOE that somehow cut out my bingeing.
I found the most important thing is not how many calories that I was eat but what kind of calories that I was eating that were the cause of my overeating and bingeing. I felt totally helpless to stop eating the high carb food. I knew it was in the process of killing me. I saw the sadness in the kids faces when I could not do things with them like the fathers of their friends did with their kids. I never realized it was the sugar laden junk food that was leading to the binge eating on a regular bases until I was 63.
It was on a hunch out of the blue as to how to avoid starting Enbrel injections 7 Nov 2014 that I finally left sugar and all forms of all grains. It was still hard to get off of the yummy food as you called it. I had to visualize myself in my coffin at the funeral home and for hours hearing people walk by saying, "Well he finally ate enough to kill his fat butt."
In the end it was my desire to live with health as long as possible that lead me to find a new WOE and stick with it for several years now. This is just what happened in my case and who knows if it would work the same way for another. In hindsight I do wish I had known to change my WOE 40 years ago and had a more normal life but what is important is what I do with the rest of my life.
Gale can you provide more specifics about what a typical day of eating was like, before you made the changes that you've found very beneficial - including the quantities of the foods you were eating, compared to a typical day's worth of foods now? You describe binge eating at DQ - what specifically were you eating? A large meal followed by a blizzard? Multiple blizzards? An entire ice cream cake? You also now continue to go to McDonalds regularly - what's a typical day of eating look like today?0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Hey I went a day without eating at McDonalds because the suckers locked me out. By the way it is a great place if one wants to eat low carb. I am really like their 200 calorie large coffee.
I know some do not see out of control (binge) eating an eating disorder. I do not know why I reacted to sugar and grains so badly. While the forty years of binging wrecked my health by fusing joints from head to toe I know the side effects will not go away but it has helped with the pain and mental fog.
I make no claims for what keto will for others but just state while I did it accidently it has helped in my case.
It was not until I was sitting in on some Celebrating Recovery classes since I am on the board of a halfway house and wanted to better to learn about addiction and recovery since that had never been a problem for me I thought. The chapter on Denial hit me like a ton of bricks. I suddenly saw I was no better than the guy with needle tracks.
I was binging because I liked the high to keep on keepin on the doctor mentioned yesterday. At the time I did not even medically understand how carbs could be addicting to some people. My uncles on my dad's side all died directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse so I knew not to touch it with a obsessive compulsive nature.
Do I care about others? I will run with what the people watch me daily in action. I can not and will not try to make others act right? I will not make false medical statements about others like some have said about me.
Before I found MFP at age 63 I had already decided I was though with diet and exercise for weight loss because after being up and down for 40 years and then the heaviest of my life I knew there had to be a better way. I did not want to become homebound and die prematurely so I made working to live to be 110 and walking and talking the entire way my stated goal but I was still binge eating if I was around sugar and grain based foods.
Upon realizing I was a carb addict I finally stopped going by the Dairy Queen every day on my way home after just eating a full meal. It was a hellish two weeks and so so for another two and just kind of OK for the next two months. I knew several that got away from depending on alcohol and drugs so that surely I could do the same with carbs.
We can cut out alcohol totally but we can not cut out FOOD totally. We can not even stay away from where food is in most cases. The wife and teenage kids keep right on eating the carbs that I was eating. My carb addiction was my problem and I had no right to expect them to leave off carbs so I set down to a table full of carbs but there are even more carbs around me at McDonalds (they to reopen in 90 minutes ).
Tonight I was reading on what the Sumer people ate like 5000 years ago and they ate mainly carbs and most of the people in the Blue Zones live on carbs but there were no highly processed carbs in the diets of either groups just mentioned.
Like my friends that have stopped drinking would like to see others stop harming themselves with alcohol I would like to see that food wise but just because going low carb has or is resolving a ton of my 40 years of health issues I have no way to know if my WOE will help them or not.
It does bother me when some say medically speaking one can not be addicted to carbs but I in the back of my mind they are not saying that to harm others directly but just have not studied the subject. It is true on most any forum most readers never post and that is the ones that concern me when people repeatedly post false medical statements.
Best of success to all eating the way that works best for you.
So what you were actually addicted to were hyperpalatable foods that contain both fats and carbs (i.e., meals at DQ). It just so happens that eliminating an entire macros allowed you to stop the binge because restriction works well with you.
How am i not surprised all those process carbs where also considered bad fats 20 years ago.
Yes. At the time I was not aware how much damage sugar could cause me when mixed with these fats.
Without the sugar and a macro of 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% my health is recovering in most all aspects.
In my body I now view sugar as damaging as salt is to a car in areas it is used to melt ice and snow in winter. Perhaps sugar with very low fat would be a better combo for health if eating a ton of processed carbs.
Not sure why but for some reason if I get into cake and ice cream I will wind up eating the legs off the table before I stop eating. Sure I can try to binge on protein and fat but for some reason I start to gag when I physically get full but not when binging on cake, pie, ice cream etc.
You just don't see it. It wasnt the sugar that caused you to get fat... it was yummy food. Its funny that you blame sugar when you didnt get fat off of just sugar. You got fat on the same comfort foods as most people. If anything, you got fat on fat because those DQ meals are mostly fat.
Getting fat or even obese came after the sugar/carb damage (spontaneous joint fusing) was well underway. The Ankylosing Spondylitis got started in my teens as I now have learned more about AS over the last 40 years since the doctors labeled it AS.
In this thread I was just supporting Dr. Jason Fung's research about the useless concept of calories based on me personally learning that in my case the kind of calories that I eat is key to me reducing my health risks including obesity is more important than total calorie count because my new WOE soon addressed my binge eating for some reason.
No one become obese without eating too many calories. No one over eats without some cause. I was 63 before I learned my binging was related to eating sugar or any other highly processed carb based food sources. When my binging on sugar based foods stopped by mental choice to eat no more than 50 grams of carbs daily yet keep my daily calorie count in the 2000-2500 calorie range my pain was the first thing addressed by my new WOE started Oct 2014. After 6 weeks the weight loss slowly started but I had been losing inches well before the weigh loss started. I have actually lost another 40 pounds as a side effect of my new WOE that somehow cut out my bingeing.
I found the most important thing is not how many calories that I was eat but what kind of calories that I was eating that were the cause of my overeating and bingeing. I felt totally helpless to stop eating the high carb food. I knew it was in the process of killing me. I saw the sadness in the kids faces when I could not do things with them like the fathers of their friends did with their kids. I never realized it was the sugar laden junk food that was leading to the binge eating on a regular bases until I was 63.
It was on a hunch out of the blue as to how to avoid starting Enbrel injections 7 Nov 2014 that I finally left sugar and all forms of all grains. It was still hard to get off of the yummy food as you called it. I had to visualize myself in my coffin at the funeral home and for hours hearing people walk by saying, "Well he finally ate enough to kill his fat butt."
In the end it was my desire to live with health as long as possible that lead me to find a new WOE and stick with it for several years now. This is just what happened in my case and who knows if it would work the same way for another. In hindsight I do wish I had known to change my WOE 40 years ago and had a more normal life but what is important is what I do with the rest of my life.
Gale can you provide more specifics about what a typical day of eating was like, before you made the changes that you've found very beneficial - including the quantities of the foods you were eating, compared to a typical day's worth of foods now? You describe binge eating at DQ - what specifically were you eating? A large meal followed by a blizzard? Multiple blizzards? An entire ice cream cake? You also now continue to go to McDonalds regularly - what's a typical day of eating look like today?
DQ is not a sit down type in Murray so I was just getting the full size banana split but the last time was over 3 years ago. This was typically after a full meal with 2-3 large sugar drinks somewhere else.
McDonald's was just an hour. 2 100% beef patties ($0.60 each), 4 packs of mustard to make the side serving of dehydrated chopped onions stick well then I slice the patties like pies and eat the 12 pieces of 100% beef with a knife and fork, 1 side salad ($1.69) with one packet of Balsamic Vinaigrette dressing (the movie star guy brand), 2 12 oz cups of regular coffee each laced with 10 half and half creamers at the cost of $1.00. With tax and food to the table service it was a total of $4.22 for my LCHF supper. Because my sister's boyfriend offered to haul the 1966 Ford 3000 tractor we recently purchased to the shop for real end seals after church I was in a rush to get the tractor down to church so all I had for lunch was a can of StarKist Selects Solid Yellowfin Tuna in extra virgin olive oil with Bob's Red Mill unsweetened flaked coconut unsulphured and a few ounces of Baker's 100% Cacao premium baking bar. Breakfast was in the normal 1000-1500 calorie range from a combo of eggs, coffee, coconut oil, almonds, 100% Cacao bar, coconut flakes and a handful of supplements from vegetables and fruits hopefully kept heart disease, cancer, Parkinson's, etc at bay.2
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