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CICO is overrated in my opinion
Replies
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Aztec4Life wrote: »CICO thinking is like when we thought the earth was flat 500 years ago. I ate about the same calories at 400lbs that I do at 195. But now it's not processed junk.
There are so many factors that effect weight. Gender age fitness genetics stress sleep menstruation etc etc. To think that a simple math equation if energy expenditure regulates weight is ludicrous.
BTW, up until a few years ago I used to think calories caused me to be obese. I'm glad I know better now.
It's much easier to unknowingly eat too many calories of processed junk. A comfortable stomach full of French fries equals many more calories than a comfortable stomach full of cabbage.
I'm happy that you've found a way of eating which works for you, but I doubt very much that you have a personal exemption from the laws of physics. It's much more likely that you have an inaccurate idea of how many calories you used to eat.16 -
People are missing my point. The natural question that comes from reading this thread's title is "Why is CICO overrated?"
Understand that this conversation had filled 7 pages before I spoke up, so I acknowledge this isn't a commonly made argument, but I wish people were willing to at least consider a unique opinion instead of all-out attacking anyone who disagrees. I like to challenge people, I'm not malicious; my apologies if that wasn't clear from the outset. I'll re-state my point briefly.
If (I'm not saying it's the absolute truth), if CICO is overrated, it (IMO) could only possibly be overrated with respect to the remarkable amount of focus and self-control it takes to use the principles of CICO to change yourself in a positive way.
What good is information if one lacks the means (in this case, the 'behavior') to effectively use it to better their circumstances?
That is my point.
You should be saying calorie counting not CICO and understand the difference between the references5 -
Aztec4Life wrote: »CICO thinking is like when we thought the earth was flat 500 years ago. I ate about the same calories at 400lbs that I do at 195. But now it's not processed junk.
There are so many factors that effect weight. Gender age fitness genetics stress sleep menstruation etc etc. To think that a simple math equation if energy expenditure regulates weight is ludicrous.
BTW, up until a few years ago I used to think calories caused me to be obese. I'm glad I know better now.
You lost weight because you took in fewer calories then your expended, plain and simple.
You are incorrect to say “so many factors that effect weight”. A more precise way to state it would be, “there are so many factors that effect CICO that as a result effect weight...”10 -
Munchberry wrote: »CICO is NOT a weight loss plan - it is a math formula that describes the relationship between calories taken in (CI) and calories expended (CO).
Except with all things with the human body it is never quite as simple as it seems. I used to eye roll and tell people it was simple math. No more.
The point I think you're missing is that what your body calculates is CICO, it's not what you can calculate yourself.
All of these factors that people "yeah, but" are part of the CICO equation (in the true sense of it being a statement of energy balance) and just go to show how complicated it is and how much they don't understand it.9 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Munchberry wrote: »CICO is NOT a weight loss plan - it is a math formula that describes the relationship between calories taken in (CI) and calories expended (CO).
Except with all things with the human body it is never quite as simple as it seems. I used to eye roll and tell people it was simple math. No more.
It is simple math. Working out what the numbers in that formula are for the individual takes a little experimentation because there are things that affect CI. But the formula stands.
Well, to be fair, for some people it's more complicated due to some people wringing more calories out of food than other people, but we're talking margins here, you know? CO is also a crap shoot on how efficient you are at exercise too.
Again, this is just margins, but it's also close enough is good enough but it's also sometimes masked by the dreaded water weight on the scale and people get frustrated because they don't know this.4 -
Mazintrov13 wrote: »People are missing my point. The natural question that comes from reading this thread's title is "Why is CICO overrated?"
Understand that this conversation had filled 7 pages before I spoke up, so I acknowledge this isn't a commonly made argument, but I wish people were willing to at least consider a unique opinion instead of all-out attacking anyone who disagrees. I like to challenge people, I'm not malicious; my apologies if that wasn't clear from the outset. I'll re-state my point briefly.
If (I'm not saying it's the absolute truth), if CICO is overrated, it (IMO) could only possibly be overrated with respect to the remarkable amount of focus and self-control it takes to use the principles of CICO to change yourself in a positive way.
What good is information if one lacks the means (in this case, the 'behavior') to effectively use it to better their circumstances?
That is my point.
You should be saying calorie counting not CICO and understand the difference between the references
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Munchberry wrote: »CICO is NOT a weight loss plan - it is a math formula that describes the relationship between calories taken in (CI) and calories expended (CO).
Except with all things with the human body it is never quite as simple as it seems. I used to eye roll and tell people it was simple math. No more.
How is it not simple? It may a guesstimate, but it is simple...4 -
Aztec4Life wrote: »CICO thinking is like when we thought the earth was flat 500 years ago. I ate about the same calories at 400lbs that I do at 195. But now it's not processed junk.
There are so many factors that effect weight. Gender age fitness genetics stress sleep menstruation etc etc. To think that a simple math equation if energy expenditure regulates weight is ludicrous.
BTW, up until a few years ago I used to think calories caused me to be obese. I'm glad I know better now.
So you were diligently tracking calorie intake while obese - weighing and recording all your foods, and are doing so now as well? I too eat more calories now that I’m slimmer than before I lost weight - but it’s because I’m far more active than my previously Sedentary self - so again, CICO is still in play but my balance has shifted, I have a higher CO from activity than I did from the extra pounds, therefore my CI is higher as well (I’m in maintenance).
All the factors you list do play a part in our overall health and well being. Some of them directly contribute to the CO number, some impact your ability to stick with a program, some result in water weight fluctuations. They don’t negate CICO.
So if it wasn’t Calories that causes you to be obese, what was it?16 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Aztec4Life wrote: »CICO thinking is like when we thought the earth was flat 500 years ago. I ate about the same calories at 400lbs that I do at 195. But now it's not processed junk.
There are so many factors that effect weight. Gender age fitness genetics stress sleep menstruation etc etc. To think that a simple math equation if energy expenditure regulates weight is ludicrous.
BTW, up until a few years ago I used to think calories caused me to be obese. I'm glad I know better now.
So you were diligently tracking calorie intake while obese - weighing and recording all your foods, and are doing so now as well? I too eat more calories now that I’m slimmer than before I lost weight - but it’s because I’m far more active than my previously Sedentary self - so again, CICO is still in play but my balance has shifted, I have a higher CO from activity than I did from the extra pounds, therefore my CI is higher as well (I’m in maintenance).
All the factors you list do play a part in our overall health and well being. Some of them directly contribute to the CO number, some impact your ability to stick with a program, some result in water weight fluctuations. They don’t negate CICO.
So if it wasn’t Calories that causes you to be obese, what was it?
LOL. I can't wait to hear the answer to this one.
I'll put in an early guess - "teh insulinz!1!!!".14 -
Munchberry wrote: »CICO is NOT a weight loss plan - it is a math formula that describes the relationship between calories taken in (CI) and calories expended (CO).
Except with all things with the human body it is never quite as simple as it seems. I used to eye roll and tell people it was simple math. No more.
How is it not simple? It may a guesstimate, but it is simple...
It really is.
People get hung up on how we don't know everything that goes into CI. Since CI=A+B+C+D+E and the exact values of A through E are unknown (although they can be estimated well), they complain that you can't know CI exactly. Same with CO, and with that one there may be inputs we don't even know about. Oh, that makes it impossible, they say.
But that's missing the forest for the trees.
All you need to lose weight is to change the inputs so CI<CO.
SO although we don't know for sure what CI and CO are, we CAN easily find out of they are CI=CO, CI<CO, or CI>CO, and we can do things that we know for certain will decrease CI or increase CO.
So it's simple.
The difficulty (and why it may not be easy) is that some people find it hard, for lots of reasons, to decrease CI or increase CO, but that does not mean CICO is wrong or "overrated." I personally think understanding the task you need to accomplish (here, decreasing CI and/or decreasing CO) and setting that part to rest makes it easier to then figure out how to accomplish it (which will be individual).
So many people seem to want to talk themselves into the idea that if they are gaining they might be eating too much, but also might just be eating too little and so it's important to figure out the exact right calories and exact right macros and exact right foods for it even to work at all, and I think that often keeps them from focusing on the main goal or from figuring out why they are not actually achieving CI<CO. I think a healthful diet is important and CAN make it easily to decrease CI (especially if one is eating a poor diet currently), but understanding that the goal is to decrease CI and that CI<CO is how weight loss works is important.6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Munchberry wrote: »CICO is NOT a weight loss plan - it is a math formula that describes the relationship between calories taken in (CI) and calories expended (CO).
Except with all things with the human body it is never quite as simple as it seems. I used to eye roll and tell people it was simple math. No more.
It is simple math. Working out what the numbers in that formula are for the individual takes a little experimentation because there are things that affect CI. But the formula stands.
Well, to be fair, for some people it's more complicated due to some people wringing more calories out of food than other people, but we're talking margins here, you know? CO is also a crap shoot on how efficient you are at exercise too.
Again, this is just margins, but it's also close enough is good enough but it's also sometimes masked by the dreaded water weight on the scale and people get frustrated because they don't know this.
I just noticed I put CI when I meant CO. And now it's way too late to correct and this will haunt me in five years.10 -
I laugh out loud. I wonder how our ancestors regulated weight before they knew what calories were? Or every other species on the planet? Or the 99% of people on earth who dont track calories?41
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VintageFeline wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Munchberry wrote: »CICO is NOT a weight loss plan - it is a math formula that describes the relationship between calories taken in (CI) and calories expended (CO).
Except with all things with the human body it is never quite as simple as it seems. I used to eye roll and tell people it was simple math. No more.
It is simple math. Working out what the numbers in that formula are for the individual takes a little experimentation because there are things that affect CI. But the formula stands.
Well, to be fair, for some people it's more complicated due to some people wringing more calories out of food than other people, but we're talking margins here, you know? CO is also a crap shoot on how efficient you are at exercise too.
Again, this is just margins, but it's also close enough is good enough but it's also sometimes masked by the dreaded water weight on the scale and people get frustrated because they don't know this.
I just noticed I put CI when I meant CO. And now it's way too late to correct and this will haunt me in five years.
message a Mod- they'll fix it for you.2 -
Aztec4Life wrote: »I laugh out loud. I wonder how our ancestors regulated weight before they knew what calories were? Or every other species on the planet? Or the 99% of people on earth who dont track calories?
Because food is more plentiful now and we sit on our butts more.32 -
Aztec4Life wrote: »I laugh out loud. I wonder how our ancestors regulated weight before they knew what calories were? Or every other species on the planet? Or the 99% of people on earth who dont track calories?
Before I ever knew what CICO and macros were it was "damnit I'm eating to much - I'm going to get fat"
pretty straight forward.16 -
Aztec4Life wrote: »I laugh out loud. I wonder how our ancestors regulated weight before they knew what calories were? Or every other species on the planet? Or the 99% of people on earth who dont track calories?
Our ancestors had periods of time where there was no food. Instant CI<CO. Really, how hard is this to understand...20 -
Aztec4Life wrote: »I laugh out loud. I wonder how our ancestors regulated weight before they knew what calories were? Or every other species on the planet? Or the 99% of people on earth who dont track calories?
At some points in history, being overweight was a sign of wealth - they feasted regularly on multiple course, indulgent meals.9 -
Aztec4Life wrote: »I laugh out loud. I wonder how our ancestors regulated weight before they knew what calories were? Or every other species on the planet? Or the 99% of people on earth who dont track calories?
You are confusing calorie counting/tracking with CICO. CICO just explains what is going on inside the body.
CI<CO = Weight loss...
CI>CO = Weight gain...
CI=CO = Weight maintenance...13 -
Aztec4Life wrote: »I laugh out loud. I wonder how our ancestors regulated weight before they knew what calories were? Or every other species on the planet? Or the 99% of people on earth who dont track calories?
Because of more food scarcity, because of that hunter gatherer thing, because of life being completely different to modern life in every single way. When was the last time you chased down a gazelle then butchered it, cooked it, kept a fire going, fashioned any repairs to your shelter and skins you wear for warmth? How far do you walk to get water, forage for berries etc?
So many strawmen, strawmen everywhere!
And now? Some people are just naturally able to maintain their weight or have developed habits to enable them too. I was always overweight as an adult but maintained around the same weight. I never looked at the calorie content of anything, my natural habits kept my weight within a range. Not everyone is a fat *kitten* when faced with plentiful food.9 -
Aztec4Life wrote: »I laugh out loud. I wonder how our ancestors regulated weight before they knew what calories were? Or every other species on the planet? Or the 99% of people on earth who dont track calories?
so can you answer the question 'how did you become obese?' if not because of too many calories?5
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