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CICO is overrated in my opinion
Replies
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rheddmobile wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I don't know a single Biblical literalist. I'm certain they exist and make for excellent strawmen, but don't serve much purpose in furthering understanding.
There are multiple supporting secular accounts - most notable being Josephus & Tacitus. There are parables and there are accounts of history. You cannot simply disregard the base of work because the intent is misrepresented.
I have bible literalists in my family. There are just some things we don't discuss.
ETA: I have discussed CICO with one of the bible literalists. She, unfortunately found it to be too much trouble and keeps looking for magical fixes. She's very into Trim Healthy Mama.
This of course requires additional clarification on "literalists". For example was the world created in 7 Roman calendar days? Is the Earth ~8 k years old?
Similar to CICO I find it fascinating how concerned people can be over the finer points. In particular why it is so important to them.
The biblical literalists in my family believe in a young earth and 7 literal days.
I believe that Oreos (well the kind I can have since I can't have gluten) are delicious.
My mother in law believes that dinosaurs walked with Noah and perished in the flood. Her husband, my husband's stepfather, believes that the King James Bible and no other version is literally perfect and divinely transmitted.
The thing I find weirdest about them is that they are not at all literalists when it comes to verses such as "turn the other cheek" or "give all you have to the poor and follow Me."
Anyway, pretty sure religious debate is against the rules here.
Not getting into the nuts and bolts of this, but touching on some of what you've said and something lemurcat said, I just wanted to note that I studied the bible extensively both as an evangelical Christian and from a Catholic perspective and that they are very different takes.
As it is, I don't really have a dog in this "fight", so to speak. I find the religious scriptures of all faiths to be an interesting area, one I'd like to delve into more, but I'm pretty much a hopeful agnostic.8 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I don't know a single Biblical literalist. I'm certain they exist and make for excellent strawmen, but don't serve much purpose in furthering understanding.
There are multiple supporting secular accounts - most notable being Josephus & Tacitus. There are parables and there are accounts of history. You cannot simply disregard the base of work because the intent is misrepresented.
I have bible literalists in my family. There are just some things we don't discuss.
ETA: I have discussed CICO with one of the bible literalists. She, unfortunately found it to be too much trouble and keeps looking for magical fixes. She's very into Trim Healthy Mama.
This of course requires additional clarification on "literalists". For example was the world created in 7 Roman calendar days? Is the Earth ~8 k years old?
Similar to CICO I find it fascinating how concerned people can be over the finer points. In particular why it is so important to them.
I'm flexible on the age of the earth.... In that I'm open to the idea that human history is ~20K years and not just 87 -
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Weird experience - opens thread on CICO, reads first few pages, skips to end - somehow we are now on how literally we take the bible
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My family is pretty literal- I grew up being taught the earth was young- and created in 7 literal days.
Didn't really realize I grew up in a "literalist" family. Look at that.2 -
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lemurcat12 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I don't know a single Biblical literalist. I'm certain they exist and make for excellent strawmen, but don't serve much purpose in furthering understanding.
There are multiple supporting secular accounts - most notable being Josephus & Tacitus. There are parables and there are accounts of history. You cannot simply disregard the base of work because the intent is misrepresented.
I have bible literalists in my family. There are just some things we don't discuss.
ETA: I have discussed CICO with one of the bible literalists. She, unfortunately found it to be too much trouble and keeps looking for magical fixes. She's very into Trim Healthy Mama.
This of course requires additional clarification on "literalists". For example was the world created in 7 Roman calendar days? Is the Earth ~8 k years old?
Similar to CICO I find it fascinating how concerned people can be over the finer points. In particular why it is so important to them.
I think it's an interesting topic and have had long and mutually respectfully discussions with literalists about it (I'm Catholic and religious). That said, I don't think it's something that can be productively discussed here (and is almost certainly going to be seen by TPTB as against the rules, I'd bet).
No doubt. Although we've gone almost 24 hours now.
Perhaps by taking such a long/wide road and tangent to get here we've shed the people unable to have a civil/productive discussion.
That being said, there are other fora where such a conversation could be held. Perhaps a group, if there's interest. Would need to weed out against trolls and derailers.
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paperpudding wrote: »Weird experience - opens thread on CICO, reads first few pages, skips to end - somehow we are now on how literally we take the bible .
Lmfao, I just read the first page, then skipped to the end. Brother, I know. I was equally baffled...5 -
paperpudding wrote: »Weird experience - opens thread on CICO, reads first few pages, skips to end - somehow we are now on how literally we take the bible .
I did the same thing...
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sarah_K_parker wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Weird experience - opens thread on CICO, reads first few pages, skips to end - somehow we are now on how literally we take the bible .
Lmfao, I just read the first page, then skipped to the end. Brother, I know. I was equally baffled...vanilla_frosting wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Weird experience - opens thread on CICO, reads first few pages, skips to end - somehow we are now on how literally we take the bible .
I did the same thing...
And this, little boys and girls, is exactly why you should always read comments before posting.
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JerSchmare wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I don't know a single Biblical literalist. I'm certain they exist and make for excellent strawmen, but don't serve much purpose in furthering understanding.
There are multiple supporting secular accounts - most notable being Josephus & Tacitus. There are parables and there are accounts of history. You cannot simply disregard the base of work because the intent is misrepresented.
I have bible literalists in my family. There are just some things we don't discuss.
ETA: I have discussed CICO with one of the bible literalists. She, unfortunately found it to be too much trouble and keeps looking for magical fixes. She's very into Trim Healthy Mama.
This of course requires additional clarification on "literalists". For example was the world created in 7 Roman calendar days? Is the Earth ~8 k years old?
Similar to CICO I find it fascinating how concerned people can be over the finer points. In particular why it is so important to them.
The biblical literalists in my family believe in a young earth and 7 literal days.
I believe that Oreos (well the kind I can have since I can't have gluten) are delicious.
My mother in law believes that dinosaurs walked with Noah and perished in the flood. Her husband, my husband's stepfather, believes that the King James Bible and no other version is literally perfect and divinely transmitted.
The thing I find weirdest about them is that they are not at all literalists when it comes to verses such as "turn the other cheek" or "give all you have to the poor and follow Me."
Anyway, pretty sure religious debate is against the rules here.
Not getting into the nuts and bolts of this, but touching on some of what you've said and something lemurcat said, I just wanted to note that I studied the bible extensively both as an evangelical Christian and from a Catholic perspective and that they are very different takes.
As it is, I don't really have a dog in this "fight", so to speak. I find the religious scriptures of all faiths to be an interesting area, one I'd like to delve into more, but I'm pretty much a hopeful agnostic.
Religious Studies is absolutely fascinating. I used to be good friends with a guy that was getting his Masters in religious Studies. I met one of his professors, and we became buddies. We would drink heavily Long into the night and discuss the Bible and religion. Funny note: many deeply religious people drop out of Religious Studies courses because it is more about historical facts. They get upset at the facts. At least, the facts as we understand them. This is according to the professor. I have no actual knowledge or data to back this up. But, it is bothersome for the teachers because the religious people are often vocal and refute everything until they finally leave.
Yeah, I went into an informal study (not in school, but did it on my own using scholarly sources) as a die hard believer and came out an agnostic.
Saying that, I respect believers. I just don't have that *something* within me necessary to hold onto faith for long. I've gone back and forth on it throughout my life.
Interesting observation about my kids: when she was young, I was still in my believer stage, and my daughter quite naturally was skeptical about the whole idea of anything "other". She's a natural atheist. I've never even thought such a thing could be possible. Also, while we never actively encouraged the idea of Santa, we never discouraged it either. She never believed in him either. Now our son? He's a believer and also believed fully in Santa (even without us encouraging it) and the Easter Bunny.
ETA: Dear glob, I hope I am not coming across to those of you with faith as comparing Santa with God. Not my intention.9 -
^^^^^^^^^^^GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I don't know a single Biblical literalist. I'm certain they exist and make for excellent strawmen, but don't serve much purpose in furthering understanding.
There are multiple supporting secular accounts - most notable being Josephus & Tacitus. There are parables and there are accounts of history. You cannot simply disregard the base of work because the intent is misrepresented.
I have bible literalists in my family. There are just some things we don't discuss.
ETA: I have discussed CICO with one of the bible literalists. She, unfortunately found it to be too much trouble and keeps looking for magical fixes. She's very into Trim Healthy Mama.
This of course requires additional clarification on "literalists". For example was the world created in 7 Roman calendar days? Is the Earth ~8 k years old?
Similar to CICO I find it fascinating how concerned people can be over the finer points. In particular why it is so important to them.
The biblical literalists in my family believe in a young earth and 7 literal days.
I believe that Oreos (well the kind I can have since I can't have gluten) are delicious.
My mother in law believes that dinosaurs walked with Noah and perished in the flood. Her husband, my husband's stepfather, believes that the King James Bible and no other version is literally perfect and divinely transmitted.
The thing I find weirdest about them is that they are not at all literalists when it comes to verses such as "turn the other cheek" or "give all you have to the poor and follow Me."
Anyway, pretty sure religious debate is against the rules here.
Not getting into the nuts and bolts of this, but touching on some of what you've said and something lemurcat said, I just wanted to note that I studied the bible extensively both as an evangelical Christian and from a Catholic perspective and that they are very different takes.
As it is, I don't really have a dog in this "fight", so to speak. I find the religious scriptures of all faiths to be an interesting area, one I'd like to delve into more, but I'm pretty much a hopeful agnostic.
Religious Studies is absolutely fascinating. I used to be good friends with a guy that was getting his Masters in religious Studies. I met one of his professors, and we became buddies. We would drink heavily Long into the night and discuss the Bible and religion. Funny note: many deeply religious people drop out of Religious Studies courses because it is more about historical facts. They get upset at the facts. At least, the facts as we understand them. This is according to the professor. I have no actual knowledge or data to back this up. But, it is bothersome for the teachers because the religious people are often vocal and refute everything until they finally leave.
Yeah, I went into an informal study (not in school, but did it on my own using scholarly sources) as a die hard believer and came out an agnostic.
This would be me also.5 -
:huh:
What happened to this thread? I left it going in the direction of a train wreck and I come back to... well... never mind...
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ladyreva78 wrote: »:huh:
What happened to this thread? I left it going in the direction of a train wreck and I come back to... well... never mind...
either get on board or move along.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I don't know a single Biblical literalist. I'm certain they exist and make for excellent strawmen, but don't serve much purpose in furthering understanding.
There are multiple supporting secular accounts - most notable being Josephus & Tacitus. There are parables and there are accounts of history. You cannot simply disregard the base of work because the intent is misrepresented.
I have bible literalists in my family. There are just some things we don't discuss.
ETA: I have discussed CICO with one of the bible literalists. She, unfortunately found it to be too much trouble and keeps looking for magical fixes. She's very into Trim Healthy Mama.
This of course requires additional clarification on "literalists". For example was the world created in 7 Roman calendar days? Is the Earth ~8 k years old?
Similar to CICO I find it fascinating how concerned people can be over the finer points. In particular why it is so important to them.
I'm flexible on the age of the earth.... In that I'm open to the idea that human history is ~20K years and not just 8
I think much the same way as I don't think the genealogies are meant to be a means of calculating things. I guess for some that would mean I am not a literalist although I do hold to a 7 day creation and an actual historical Adam and fall into sin.6 -
Not much to say other than I am not religious, I believe there are some snippets of historical fact within the bible but am on the side of largely moral lesson fairy stories.
And thus, not religious. But respect and defend a persons right to faith (but not right to extremism within any faith) and am also fascinated by different religions.
I'm sure you all care about my position..........
As you were.13 -
^^^^^^^^^^^GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I don't know a single Biblical literalist. I'm certain they exist and make for excellent strawmen, but don't serve much purpose in furthering understanding.
There are multiple supporting secular accounts - most notable being Josephus & Tacitus. There are parables and there are accounts of history. You cannot simply disregard the base of work because the intent is misrepresented.
I have bible literalists in my family. There are just some things we don't discuss.
ETA: I have discussed CICO with one of the bible literalists. She, unfortunately found it to be too much trouble and keeps looking for magical fixes. She's very into Trim Healthy Mama.
This of course requires additional clarification on "literalists". For example was the world created in 7 Roman calendar days? Is the Earth ~8 k years old?
Similar to CICO I find it fascinating how concerned people can be over the finer points. In particular why it is so important to them.
The biblical literalists in my family believe in a young earth and 7 literal days.
I believe that Oreos (well the kind I can have since I can't have gluten) are delicious.
My mother in law believes that dinosaurs walked with Noah and perished in the flood. Her husband, my husband's stepfather, believes that the King James Bible and no other version is literally perfect and divinely transmitted.
The thing I find weirdest about them is that they are not at all literalists when it comes to verses such as "turn the other cheek" or "give all you have to the poor and follow Me."
Anyway, pretty sure religious debate is against the rules here.
Not getting into the nuts and bolts of this, but touching on some of what you've said and something lemurcat said, I just wanted to note that I studied the bible extensively both as an evangelical Christian and from a Catholic perspective and that they are very different takes.
As it is, I don't really have a dog in this "fight", so to speak. I find the religious scriptures of all faiths to be an interesting area, one I'd like to delve into more, but I'm pretty much a hopeful agnostic.
Religious Studies is absolutely fascinating. I used to be good friends with a guy that was getting his Masters in religious Studies. I met one of his professors, and we became buddies. We would drink heavily Long into the night and discuss the Bible and religion. Funny note: many deeply religious people drop out of Religious Studies courses because it is more about historical facts. They get upset at the facts. At least, the facts as we understand them. This is according to the professor. I have no actual knowledge or data to back this up. But, it is bothersome for the teachers because the religious people are often vocal and refute everything until they finally leave.
Yeah, I went into an informal study (not in school, but did it on my own using scholarly sources) as a die hard believer and came out an agnostic.
This would be me also.
Me three.1 -
Not sure what to make of all the wooing. I mean I get that this is a relatively controversial subject, but nobody in the "believer" camp has done any more than present opinion and perspective as opinion and perspective.8
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stanmann571 wrote: »Not sure what to make of all the wooing. I mean I get that this is a relatively controversial subject, but nobody in the "believer" camp has done any more than present opinion and perspective as opinion and perspective.
I doubt anyone wooing has bothered to actually reply. All I see is a generally respectful exchange of viewpoints based on actual posts. The opinions of anonymous woo-ers don't count
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I don't think this thread is turning out quite the way OP hoped 4
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The bible is a bit of both sides. On one hand you have things about people who definitely actually lived and may or may not have done the things that stand in the bible about them. On the other you have a talking snake.8
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stanmann571 wrote: »Not sure what to make of all the wooing. I mean I get that this is a relatively controversial subject, but nobody in the "believer" camp has done any more than present opinion and perspective as opinion and perspective.
I'm still trying to figure out what "woo" means. Like I get the point its' supposed to mean like "bro science" or "woo- gwenth paltrow diets"- But its honestly gets applied in the strangest way- I just sort of ignore it honestly.2 -
I have an almost an hour and a half to go- sooooooo let's move it along- we gotta keep talking about something.0
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I have an almost an hour and a half to go- sooooooo let's move it along- we gotta keep talking about something.
I move that we create a debate/discussion group that's aggressively moderated against disrespectful folks, but no holds barred regarding ethical/theological belief/opinion.5 -
I have an almost an hour and a half to go- sooooooo let's move it along- we gotta keep talking about something.
I can talk to you about protein biosynthesis if you want... Then again, not sure I understood most of what I've just read. Was too busy shaking my head at the oddest train wrecks going on. It's kinda hard to read (and take useful notes) when you're shaking your head.
Oh and, I didn't woo your answer to my Obi-Wan... I thought it was funny
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VintageFeline wrote: »
Oh and don't shake your head while you're trying to speed read... it'll slow you down
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ladyreva78 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
Oh and don't shake your head while you're trying to speed read... it'll slow you down
damnit- but I'll jump over- I'm definitely sort of dragging booty here and not in the good way- I just had my last snack- and there is giant bag of doritos that I'm avoiding.
I'll pop over- I saw it and passed by it like ten times- I missed the fact it was gaining speed.stanmann571 wrote: »I have an almost an hour and a half to go- sooooooo let's move it along- we gotta keep talking about something.
I move that we create a debate/discussion group that's aggressively moderated against disrespectful folks, but no holds barred regarding ethical/theological belief/opinion.
I'm down. Although I freely admit- it's hard to be respectful sometimes. The whole imaginary friend thing comes out and people get offended. But I can try. It would be more fun than doing nothing.1 -
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moosmum1972 wrote: »ladyreva78 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
Oh and don't shake your head while you're trying to speed read... it'll slow you down
Quick notes...
OP wants a diet to prevent all possible disease and lose weight....
Sort of goes to plan (well.it is friday) then ADDED SUGARZ = LOW FAT CONSPIRACY = ALL FRUIT IS POISON
Then bizarrely special k being 33% sugar and eating 128lbs of added sugar each a year ....being thrown about every other post....
Most excellent cliff notes there!0
This discussion has been closed.
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