Do we go nowhere ?
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First of all, for context, I’m an agnostic, a skeptic, who knows her bible.
That’s all the evidence I have. Even Jesus pointed out it is not for the living to know what comes next.Do you think when we expire that's it?
I take inspiration from Albert Schweitzer who summed all the morality of the bible to “Reverence for Life”. He had this revelation while cruising down the Congo, surrounded by the riotous sights, sounds, and scents of jungle life. All of it growing, learning, loving, fighting and procreating. In our barren solar system, our blue green marble, bursting with life, is an incalculable treasure.What can your views on life possibly be if that's the case?
In the absence of an ethereal afterlife (imagined by the Greeks by the way) I must make my mark in the brief flash of time that I have. My only mark on eternity is in the inheritance I pay forward to my children, the trees I plant, the words I write, the young people I encourage. This is closer to the Jewish (and OT) concept of morality which is concerned with behaviour and actions here on earth. This is immediate and earthy.6 -
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Good thread... I'm glad it took off. I was fully expecting it to be locked / deleted by now.
My answer? I ain't got a clue. And I'm ok with that. I don't lose any sleep over what might or might not happen a week or a month or a decade from now. Additionally, I don't need the idea of heaven or afterlife or whatever to reconcile death.
It might sound corny or cliche, but I try to live in balance with the people and the environment around me. Within that context, I make decisions to increase my own happiness.
To me, that's just common sense and sensible living. I don't need a book or a building or a whatever else to tell me that's right. I've decided that's what's right for me based on my life experiences.2 -
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SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »yep. I think being dead is just....nothingness. The same as before we're born.
to me the point of life is just to try to leave the world a little better off than you found it. and that can mean something different for everyone.
But what's the point if we all disappear? Why would a dead person care if the world is better?
Why would a soul in heaven or in hell care if the world is better than it was with them in it?
But it gives some meaning to the world, a reason to be here, a lesson to be learnt. Without pain there wouldn't be reliefe. Without hate their wouldn't be love. Opposites. Lessons to be learnt, choices to be made, roads to go down. Why don't you just go and become a drug addict and throw your life away ? Or become a thief and rob people? Maybe it wasn't your destiny or maybe, you just don't chose to go down that path but maybe, it was because your chose not to. Why did you chose not to ? Probably cos you know your a good person. Where does that goodness come from? We are in a world full of hate so where does that hate come from ?
Are you suggesting that pain, relief, love and hate only exist in gods world? That lessons can only be learned through god? These are not condescending or confrontational questions. Just as there are questions in your life that don’t have answers, you simply rely on blind faith and therefore you don't question them. There are questions in my life that I just don’t question. I respect your beliefs but I don’t necessarily feel as though your life is more valuable or has more meaning in it than mine.
You are misunderstanding me I never said my life has more value or meaning than yours. I am simply trying to understand yours.
We all live here, we all die here, we pay our taxes. I question if there is more to it than simply being born, paying taxes and dying.
Oh no, no, I wasn’t implying that you had suggested that, I was just saying I still feel like you and I, and every other person for that matter, are on the same level. I just meant that because I didn’t fall out of faith and instead was just not raised with it, I don’t feel like I’m missing out on something.
So really, you can't comment on something that you know nothing about.
How would I know nothing about it? I live it.
Because you said that you think we just die. You offered nothing beyond that.
I offered that there is nothing beyond that. How can you ask people that don’t believe there is anything beyond death, what is beyond death?
I'm simply trying to see your reasons for living. It's seems you have some, loosley built on Christian morals etc and take them as your own and justify your life that way. And you seem to hope for the best without any direction.
You’re coming off as a bit judgmental here. Please don’t accuse me of borrowing morals from the Christian faith, my morals are based on common sense. I don’t steal because I have no right to take something that I haven’t earned or doesn’t belong to me. I don’t need a set of rules to tell me it’s not ok to murder, common sense tells me not to murder. So on and so forth. It has never occurred to me to justify my very existence nor have I looked for justification for anyone else’s. If by living my life with no direction, you mean I’m not living my life in hopes that at the end, the doorman at the pearly gates deems me good enough to enter the club, then yes, I am directionless. I don’t hope for the best, that’s about as useful to me as looking up to the heavens and asking someone else to grant me the best possible outcome. Instead of take life as it comes and if I’m looking for a particular outcome, I plan and work towards said outcome. I don’t push my fate into someone else’s hands and say “here you work this out for me and I’ll just be grateful that you have blessed me with any outcome.” I directly responsible for my own outcomes. I cannot and will not look at a child’s death, an infant born with a disability, a young father taken too soon or any other human tragedy or suffering as gods will be done. I refuse to believe that me carrying and delivering twins only to find out that only one made it, was part of some bigger plan for me or my child laid out by some bearded guy wearing a dress.
It seems to me that, certainly not all, but every person of faith in my life, has taken this set of guidelines laid out for them and contorted them to suit their own lives. My body is a temple but not on Friday nights when drinks are two for one. Premarital sex is a sin but I’m horny and we live together so we’re practically married anyway. I know only god can judge but those people don’t believe in god so I am superior and I better explain to them how and why they are wrong. Was supposed to go to church this morning but I’m hungover as hell and I’ve got atomic beer farts. I can’t seem to get pregnant after all the years of trying but certainly this wasn’t part of God’s plan so I’m going to intervene with science and medicine because I’m entitled to be a parent and that’s the desired outcome for me.
Take your beliefs and by all means, live happily with them. But please don’t waste any energy pitying me and my meaningless and directionless ways. I’m quite pleased to live in my own truths as opposed to living someone else’s charade.SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »yep. I think being dead is just....nothingness. The same as before we're born.
to me the point of life is just to try to leave the world a little better off than you found it. and that can mean something different for everyone.
But what's the point if we all disappear? Why would a dead person care if the world is better?
Why would a soul in heaven or in hell care if the world is better than it was with them in it?
But it gives some meaning to the world, a reason to be here, a lesson to be learnt. Without pain there wouldn't be reliefe. Without hate their wouldn't be love. Opposites. Lessons to be learnt, choices to be made, roads to go down. Why don't you just go and become a drug addict and throw your life away ? Or become a thief and rob people? Maybe it wasn't your destiny or maybe, you just don't chose to go down that path but maybe, it was because your chose not to. Why did you chose not to ? Probably cos you know your a good person. Where does that goodness come from? We are in a world full of hate so where does that hate come from ?
Are you suggesting that pain, relief, love and hate only exist in gods world? That lessons can only be learned through god? These are not condescending or confrontational questions. Just as there are questions in your life that don’t have answers, you simply rely on blind faith and therefore you don't question them. There are questions in my life that I just don’t question. I respect your beliefs but I don’t necessarily feel as though your life is more valuable or has more meaning in it than mine.
You are misunderstanding me I never said my life has more value or meaning than yours. I am simply trying to understand yours.
We all live here, we all die here, we pay our taxes. I question if there is more to it than simply being born, paying taxes and dying.
Oh no, no, I wasn’t implying that you had suggested that, I was just saying I still feel like you and I, and every other person for that matter, are on the same level. I just meant that because I didn’t fall out of faith and instead was just not raised with it, I don’t feel like I’m missing out on something.
So really, you can't comment on something that you know nothing about.
How would I know nothing about it? I live it.
But what about ghosts?
Well it's not like she would actually talk about ghosts or the like since she doesn't believe in them. Oh wait. She has.
But she also thinks we just end up in jars, a little bit contradictory isn't it. She probably has an explanation...
I owe you an explanation for nothing but speaking of contradictions aren’t you planning on converting your boyfriends extra room into something else when you move in with him? Remember that thread you started where you got so hammered drunk that the only person who could tolerate interacting with you was sweet and patient barefoot? That was fun. What did god think about that?
You are quite possibly the greatest person... ever. Ah lub ya.3 -
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Avocado_Angel wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »yep. I think being dead is just....nothingness. The same as before we're born.
to me the point of life is just to try to leave the world a little better off than you found it. and that can mean something different for everyone.
But what's the point if we all disappear? Why would a dead person care if the world is better?
Why would a soul in heaven or in hell care if the world is better than it was with them in it?
But it gives some meaning to the world, a reason to be here, a lesson to be learnt. Without pain there wouldn't be reliefe. Without hate their wouldn't be love. Opposites. Lessons to be learnt, choices to be made, roads to go down. Why don't you just go and become a drug addict and throw your life away ? Or become a thief and rob people? Maybe it wasn't your destiny or maybe, you just don't chose to go down that path but maybe, it was because your chose not to. Why did you chose not to ? Probably cos you know your a good person. Where does that goodness come from? We are in a world full of hate so where does that hate come from ?
Are you suggesting that pain, relief, love and hate only exist in gods world? That lessons can only be learned through god? These are not condescending or confrontational questions. Just as there are questions in your life that don’t have answers, you simply rely on blind faith and therefore you don't question them. There are questions in my life that I just don’t question. I respect your beliefs but I don’t necessarily feel as though your life is more valuable or has more meaning in it than mine.
You are misunderstanding me I never said my life has more value or meaning than yours. I am simply trying to understand yours.
We all live here, we all die here, we pay our taxes. I question if there is more to it than simply being born, paying taxes and dying.
Oh no, no, I wasn’t implying that you had suggested that, I was just saying I still feel like you and I, and every other person for that matter, are on the same level. I just meant that because I didn’t fall out of faith and instead was just not raised with it, I don’t feel like I’m missing out on something.
So really, you can't comment on something that you know nothing about.
How would I know nothing about it? I live it.
But what about ghosts?
Well it's not like she would actually talk about ghosts or the like since she doesn't believe in them. Oh wait. She has.
But she also thinks we just end up in jars, a little bit contradictory isn't it. She probably has an explanation...
I owe you an explanation for nothing but speaking of contradictions aren’t you planning on converting your boyfriends extra room into something else when you move in with him? Remember that thread you started where you got so hammered drunk that the only person who could tolerate interacting with you was sweet and patient barefoot? That was fun. What did god think about that?
No sorry i can't seem to remember as clearly as you, thanks for reminding me of that. I'm sure god will have that 1 at the top of his list as well.
What a silly woman you are.
You. Your special brand of judgment is precisely the reason that religious discussions are not permitted in the forums.5 -
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I don’t believe in a afterlife. I kind of think it’s just a coping mechanism for people who can’t fathom not existing. I also think a lot of people subconsciously believe being dead is an “experience” like you’re just floating around in a dark abyss for all eternity, but you have to have a CONSCIOUSNESS to experience something. There is no consciousness when you’re dead. It’s like being put under anesthesia.........Forever. There’s literally NOTHING to be afraid of.
There is no point to life. You have to give it your own meaning and purpose. In my case I have no plans on committing suicide, so whatever time I have left I’m just trying to make it as painless as possible and have some fun a long the way.5 -
SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Avocado_Angel wrote: »So what's the point in living if that's your opinion?
Repopulate I guess. I’m not so deep that I need a point to live for. I’m just here trying to enjoy it while I can.
This is what I think too...but I never wanted kids...which makes me think I'm damaged DNA...good reason to not "re populate" I guess3 -
Avocado_Angel wrote: »Actually intrested to get an atheist view on life. Do you think when we expire that's it? What can your views on life possibly be if that's the case? I am very intrigued by this.
When we die we are 'done'...we 'compost' into the world and become part of whatever?? Fertilizer? Random debris?recycled? Garbage or a pollutant?
I understand why people want to think there is more to themselves and their 'consciousness', but realistically I think that is just some human ego thing...none of us are significant in a big picture...but in a small picture, amongst the people we touch and know, we are the very essence of "life"...and should be treasured5 -
I was brought up in a religious household. Bible study nights Tuesday's and Thursday's. Church every Sunday. I'm one of those who has drifted and has just tried to live life. I was taught that there is no afterlife, once you die, you die. The way it was put to me is that it's falling asleep and never waking up. I would hate that. I honestly am not sure what I believe these days. I have read about many different versions of an afterlife. I know natives believe in an afterlife. That when a person passes, they pass into the "next life". I'm not sure exactly what that next life is but for them, it exists. I've had dreams of my father who passed, the dreams are not pleasant, for me. In my dreams he is in this world tree. It reaches into the heavens and when you walk its winding halls you can see the stars around you, it is absolutely beautiful. I found my father in a room in this tree, alive and at peace. I could not interact with him. I tried - he couldn't hear me. I've had many dreams such as this. In other dreams, he talks to me and asks about things in my life. I'd like to think he's still experiencing life somewhere, in another time line perhaps. Who knows.7
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The idea of an afterlife terrifies me. My Sunday school teacher when I was a kid always described it using a power cord. The small plug was this life, the infinite cord is the afterlife. Never ending. I think a lot of people come to religion for the wrong reason such as being afraid of making the wrong decision and be doomed to an eternity of torture, but that was never what religion was supposed to be about. That kind of discussion isn't allowed so I digress, but yes I believe in the afterlife. Ultimately nobody knows except the dead, and dead men tell no tales.4
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_barefoot_ wrote: »craygslyst1 wrote: »I’m a preachers kid.
I don’t believe due to the hatred and judgement set forth by religion.
The only the thing that’s killed more people than religion is f’n mosquitos.
Religion is a means of controlling people while making others rich.
Original sin? Really? What a neat little package. No matter what, you’re bound to hell without god.
So no matter how horrible the act, we just can’t understand God’s plan?
No one has EVER come back to say how great heaven is or terrible hell is.
I’ll say this, if there is a god, he’s too busy to care what we’re doing.
Religion/god has killed millions. Made men rich and others poor, turned man against man for eons.
I have zero use for it.
Edit:
When I was 12, I was realizing just how MANY religions there are.
I asked my mom.. ‘how do we know our religion is RIGHT? God wouldn’t let US be wrong, would he?’
Never an answer.
I have the answer to your question .
I heard a preacher say this and it made sense to me .
He said ...
Because Jesus is the only one who died and came back to life .
No other religion has done that .
Dose your family know you do not believe in God ?
If so how did they take it ?
No, this is not true, Christianity's story has been told by many religions before Jesus was around. Christianity has borrowed a lot to tell their story.5 -
_barefoot_ wrote: »No one has said why they don't believe ...
Is there a reason to why you don't want to believe .
Are you mad at God ?
Do you feel you are not worth is love ?
That's a different question for a different thread.
Surely one needs a reason to believe in somethign - you don't need a reason to NOT believe in something.1 -
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The idea of an afterlife terrifies me. My Sunday school teacher when I was a kid always described it using a power cord. The small plug was this life, the infinite cord is the afterlife. Never ending. I think a lot of people come to religion for the wrong reason such as being afraid of making the wrong decision and be doomed to an eternity of torture, but that was never what religion was supposed to be about. That kind of discussion isn't allowed so I digress, but yes I believe in the afterlife. Ultimately nobody knows except the dead, and dead men tell no tales.
Is that the difference, or one of the differences, between religion and faith?0
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