Dating a Divorced, Older Man
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I've never understood this need people feel to get married. Marriage doesn't make a relationship great or a love deeper, that's just a perception; if the relationship is good, then what does it matter whether you're married or not? Do you love him or the idea of marriage? It sounds like it is the second one you're more in love with, to be honest; the idea of marriage over the reality of him.
I’m not in love with the idea of marriage. There’s great things about it but marriage is a hard, self-denying commitment. It’s not glamorous so there’s nothing for me to be in love with about the idea. I mentioned earlier that it does, however, and primarily, hold insane value in my faith. What it represents and how I, personally, believed a relationship should be, is what I want to participate in. That’s the value to me. It’s a conviction. I have a strong personal conviction for marriage and against a more recreational relationship.
I do agree that I don’t think it’s lack of love on his part. I’m working on not needing verbal affirmation. I’m trying to also be patient with him but it’s discouraging to repeatedly hear here that I’m silly for expecting change. That people don’t change, etc2 -
"...he doesn’t want to give me any false hope."
That's a bad sign right there. He's strongly hinting that your feelings for him are hopeless. While he hasn't got the balls to cut you loose (he'll enjoy it while it lasts) he's hinting that he won't go as far as purposely misleading you by giving you affirmations he's not fully on board with. He thinks he's being nice this way, because he's not specifically lying to you.
I've been in this kind of relationship. This is just the kind of thing he said to me. Nice guy who really, really liked me (but didn't really love me.) He could have saved us both a lot of time and heartache if he'd just been straightforward, instead of trying to "spare my feelings" and dragging things out way too long (over a year.) It was more comfortable for him to just let things ride and hope I would eventually leave him first so he didn't have to be the bad guy.
The longer you go on feeling like you aren't sure where you stand and getting mixed messages from him, the more depressing it gets. Although the first few days after the break up were demoralizing, I was surprised to find myself feeling rather relieved very quickly. I didn't have to wonder where we stood anymore...
The best thing about a relationship like this is that it teaches you a lesson about what to avoid in the future. When you find the right one, you'll just know. It's nothing like the other. You feel confident and secure. Someone who really loves you knows that he does and he makes it clear to you. He doesn't play games.
Good luck!
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LivingtheLeanDream wrote: »Some guys just don't find it easy to compliment, flatter or be openly affectionate. For him it's once bitten, twice shy so it's understandable he's going to want to take things slowly.
I realise that doesn't help you, but you're going to have to be patient I feel.
My wife almost cured me of being openly affectionate or complimentary. Then I met an incredible woman and the affection was back.
Easier with those side chicks, yup.2 -
swagoner94 wrote: »I've never understood this need people feel to get married. Marriage doesn't make a relationship great or a love deeper, that's just a perception; if the relationship is good, then what does it matter whether you're married or not? Do you love him or the idea of marriage? It sounds like it is the second one you're more in love with, to be honest; the idea of marriage over the reality of him.
I’m not in love with the idea of marriage. There’s great things about it but marriage is a hard, self-denying commitment. It’s not glamorous so there’s nothing for me to be in love with about the idea. I mentioned earlier that it does, however, and primarily, hold insane value in my faith. What it represents and how I, personally, believed a relationship should be, is what I want to participate in. That’s the value to me. It’s a conviction. I have a strong personal conviction for marriage and against a more recreational relationship.
I do agree that I don’t think it’s lack of love on his part. I’m working on not needing verbal affirmation. I’m trying to also be patient with him but it’s discouraging to repeatedly hear here that I’m silly for expecting change. That people don’t change, etc
I completely understand your idea towards marriage. I feel the same towards it. The need for the verbal affirmation, thats your love language. Its not exactly necessary to have it, but it creates insecurities when you don't. Its just how you are. And people like to say, you need to accept him for how he is, but what about him accepting you for how you are? Works both ways.
Also, people do change. HOWEVER..... its best that they change for themselves. If someone changes for someone else, it creates resentment later on. Been there, done that. Haha
You two may be perfect for each other. But maybe now is not your time. Maybe he needs to separate from you for a while to see what he really wants and needs.
Or maybe this relationship helps you realize what you really need and dont need.
I personally thought PDA was over rated. But then I married a man who wouldn't hold my hand in public. Seems like such a small thing..... but I needed that. And after a few years of not having it, I felt disconnected. Because that lack of touch bled into our home life. Not just the "public" one...
Also, verbal affirmation is my love language. At one point it had been over a year before he said anything that hinted that he found me attractive. One day he said I was pretty. After 1.5 yrs of marriage, and over a year of zero compliments, I was in shock and almost cried. Now I know I need to hear the words.... and more than once a year.
Don't ignore your needs because you love him. Love is not enough....1 -
I skipped a few pages... you're co-workers? Not that I'm in a place to judge, but that does complicate things more than is ideal.
Anyway, your problem isn't the age gap (although it may be a problem). It's the experience gap. The "we're in totally different life places and can't completely understand each others' needs" gap.
You also suffer from a perspective gap - at 23, you think 9 months is a long time. He should know by now. You think 2 years is a long time. He should have gotten past this by now. For him - those time periods just aren't that long.
I'm divorced and re-married. I spent a lot of time thinking I NEVER wanted to get married again. I was with my now-husband for a pretty long time and still thought I NEVER wanted to get married again (so I'm not one of those people who just "felt right" when I met the right person). For me, it wasn't a problem with commitment, exactly, but I had this fear that people get "stuck" together - I wanted to know, without a doubt, that I was waking up next to someone that chose to be there, every day, rather than someone that was just there because leaving was too much trouble. I would have happily stayed together forever, living in separate places, keeping separate bank accounts and insurance policies and sleeping over at each others' houses every night. That represented something to me. Does that make sense? Maybe not.
We got there, but it took time. A lot of time. Way more than 9 months. We were "dating" for over 4 years when we got engaged. FWIW, he's also divorced, and sharing custody with his ex, and even though we approached our decision to get married from very different places, there was a lot of value in knowing that we each understood where the other was coming from, and the fears and insecurities that we were each dealing with. I think that's very difficult to do when you're dating someone who just plain doesn't have that experience.5 -
It's hard to get over someone cheating on you, it happened to me though thankfully with a girlfriend of 2 years and not a marriage. I was so gunshy of relationships after that I basically went MGTOW for the next 5 years until I met my wife.1
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swagoner94 wrote: »he says he has a hard time giving verbal affirmation because he doesn’t want to give me any false hope.
He says he is essentially jaded and has commitment issues. He isn’t even sure he wants to be married again.
When someone tells you who/what they are, believe them. If it's been 9 months and he's still ambivalent, I wouldn't expect much.1 -
JeepHair77 wrote: »I skipped a few pages... you're co-workers? Not that I'm in a place to judge, but that does complicate things more than is ideal.
Anyway, your problem isn't the age gap (although it may be a problem). It's the experience gap. The "we're in totally different life places and can't completely understand each others' needs" gap.
You also suffer from a perspective gap - at 23, you think 9 months is a long time. He should know by now. You think 2 years is a long time. He should have gotten past this by now. For him - those time periods just aren't that long.
I'm divorced and re-married. I spent a lot of time thinking I NEVER wanted to get married again. I was with my now-husband for a pretty long time and still thought I NEVER wanted to get married again (so I'm not one of those people who just "felt right" when I met the right person). For me, it wasn't a problem with commitment, exactly, but I had this fear that people get "stuck" together - I wanted to know, without a doubt, that I was waking up next to someone that chose to be there, every day, rather than someone that was just there because leaving was too much trouble. I would have happily stayed together forever, living in separate places, keeping separate bank accounts and insurance policies and sleeping over at each others' houses every night. That represented something to me. Does that make sense? Maybe not.
We got there, but it took time. A lot of time. Way more than 9 months. We were "dating" for over 4 years when we got engaged. FWIW, he's also divorced, and sharing custody with his ex, and even though we approached our decision to get married from very different places, there was a lot of value in knowing that we each understood where the other was coming from, and the fears and insecurities that we were each dealing with. I think that's very difficult to do when you're dating someone who just plain doesn't have that experience.
Hey, I just randomly popped back over my old posts and saw this had new replies. This was valuable. Thank you for sharing it. It totally makes sense. I'm actually encouraged to hear it didn't immediately click for you and that it took some time.
Since posting, he has said the words, "I love you," to me.. which is a big deal to me! I'm going to share something pretty personal here, but I also got on a low dose antidepressant - mostly due to PMDD symptoms. I tended to get really, insanely emotional - especially about all this - just about a week out from my period. TMI. Sorry.. but it was a pattern I started noticing. Since taking medication to help balance me out, I feel like I've been waaaaaayyyy better at emotionally practicing patience and keeping my head on straight.
We DO work together. We work in an industry that's known for something called "crunch," which is a few months of people working 50-90 hours a week... it's intense. It's been that for the last few months and there is maybe a few more months of that. I, personally, don't work those hours since I'm in HR and not one of the developers on the team. HE is. This obviously doesn't give us a ton of time to spend together or deal with this right now. But my hope is that when this is all done, we can re-evaluate this.4 -
Most men are like cavemen when it comes to acknowledging their own feelings let alone expressing them to others. I know because I use to be so closed up and have dated many men who couldn't verbalize what was going on. And yeah, once bitten twice shy thing comes to mind too but... I say if all else is good time will tell.2
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swagoner94 wrote: »He makes it sound like he... wants to want marriage again. I mean I’ve asked him why we are together if he’s not even sure about that, and he says he’s not sure he doesnt. He acknowledges this of course isn’t fair to me as our options are to call it off or for me to wait around and see if he makes up his mind and lands on the same page.
Don't wait around if you two arent on the same page. Your man should be jumping through hoops to please you. Yep, I said it.3 -
I didn't read the whole thread, but turn the "arrangement" around and see what you think of this:
You're a divorced 36 year old woman (your ex was cheating on you--or that's what you told him), dating a relatively "innocent" (meaning not dating around much) 23 year old (mature-ish) man. He won't give you (affirmation or fill in the blank with something important to/for you). Think about that. What would you advise someone in that case?
What does your family and/or parents think/say of this "arrangement"? You're grown, but do they approve of him? If not, why?
Men LIE, (women too of course), but men will say a lot of stuff (anything) to get a young inexperienced (in life) woman in bed, period.
Have you spoken to the EX? A lot of people are shocked at hearing the other-side of the coin in a divorce. Remember, men will LIE to get you in bed without a real commitment.
Just some thoughts from an older person whose been around the block a time or two...maybe three or four!
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Tread carefully....
A few years back I spent 4 years of my life playing this same game with a man that I was very much in love with. What you’re describing is very similar. Down to the excuses he used to not give me what I needed. He was doting, affectionate, kind and caring. We were inseparable. Our kids got along. Our families got along. He bought me lavish gifts, took me nice places. He was a good guy. No matter what I did, he could and would not tell me he loved me and would not commit. He would say the same things your man said. He would tell me it wasn’t a matter of him not loving me just a matter of him just not being ready to say it. That he knew exactly how he felt about me. He would say he didn’t want to give me false hope. You know why? Because he was a nice guy. He thought that by beating around the bush and speaking this way he was sparing my feelings. When in fact he was leading me on. I would have much rather him flat out say “I have no intention of getting married. I am not ready to fall in love again.” Then let me make my own decision on where I wanted the relationship to go. He won’t say that though. Because the thing you have to remember is, a divorced man is used to a certain level of companionship. While not all people require that need for human contact some do. He sounds like the type that needs affection but doesn’t want the strings attached. He’s not stupid and he knows that most self respecting women aren’t going to give their emotions out to someone who has no intentions of returning them. When I broke up with my guy it was a matter of months before it was all over Facebook him and his new girl cooing and “I love you” back and forth like nothing. It was then that I realized that I was just a tool he used to get him over his own loneliness until something better came along. It is what it is. With in a few months from that, they were married. We are adults here. I think we have all been through bad break ups, divorce or not. When you meet someone else that you’re in love with that all disappears. Even if he doesn’t want to get married again, why can’t he tell you he loves you? Please don’t let this man drag your heart through the mud for years. Tell him to strap his big boy pants on and make up his mind because you deserve better than that.8 -
It sounds like he's on board only as long as he's getting what he wants from the situation. Companionship, physical affection, etc. He will not give you the one thing that you have explicitly stated that you want/need because it makes him uncomfortable. I suggest you give him plenty of room to figure out what he really wants.1
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If you are not getting what you need out of the relationship you should leave. I tried to stay in a couple of relationships where all the love came from me and not the other side. Both ended badly. In fact, one was with a devorced 45 year old with commitment issuses when I was 18. I left when I was 22 and wish I had left sooner.0
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It's your life and your future. He may be a great guy, you may have loads in common, he may still be scarred from his previous relationship and needing time to get over that. However, it's down to you to decide whether he is able to give you the things you want in the here and now. Because if not, then you have a decision to make...0
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swagoner94 wrote: »JeepHair77 wrote: »I skipped a few pages... you're co-workers? Not that I'm in a place to judge, but that does complicate things more than is ideal.
Anyway, your problem isn't the age gap (although it may be a problem). It's the experience gap. The "we're in totally different life places and can't completely understand each others' needs" gap.
You also suffer from a perspective gap - at 23, you think 9 months is a long time. He should know by now. You think 2 years is a long time. He should have gotten past this by now. For him - those time periods just aren't that long.
I'm divorced and re-married. I spent a lot of time thinking I NEVER wanted to get married again. I was with my now-husband for a pretty long time and still thought I NEVER wanted to get married again (so I'm not one of those people who just "felt right" when I met the right person). For me, it wasn't a problem with commitment, exactly, but I had this fear that people get "stuck" together - I wanted to know, without a doubt, that I was waking up next to someone that chose to be there, every day, rather than someone that was just there because leaving was too much trouble. I would have happily stayed together forever, living in separate places, keeping separate bank accounts and insurance policies and sleeping over at each others' houses every night. That represented something to me. Does that make sense? Maybe not.
We got there, but it took time. A lot of time. Way more than 9 months. We were "dating" for over 4 years when we got engaged. FWIW, he's also divorced, and sharing custody with his ex, and even though we approached our decision to get married from very different places, there was a lot of value in knowing that we each understood where the other was coming from, and the fears and insecurities that we were each dealing with. I think that's very difficult to do when you're dating someone who just plain doesn't have that experience.
Hey, I just randomly popped back over my old posts and saw this had new replies. This was valuable. Thank you for sharing it. It totally makes sense. I'm actually encouraged to hear it didn't immediately click for you and that it took some time.
Since posting, he has said the words, "I love you," to me.. which is a big deal to me! I'm going to share something pretty personal here, but I also got on a low dose antidepressant - mostly due to PMDD symptoms. I tended to get really, insanely emotional - especially about all this - just about a week out from my period. TMI. Sorry.. but it was a pattern I started noticing. Since taking medication to help balance me out, I feel like I've been waaaaaayyyy better at emotionally practicing patience and keeping my head on straight.
We DO work together.
We work in an industry that's known for something called "crunch," which is a few months of people working 50-90 hours a week... it's intense. It's been that for the last few months and there is maybe a few more months of that. I, personally, don't work those hours since I'm in HR and not one of the developers on the team. HE is. This obviously doesn't give us a ton of time to spend together or deal with this right now. But my hope is that when this is all done, we can re-evaluate this.
I'm going to focus on these parts...
He works "crunch" hours, and you don't. You say it's already been a "few months" and "maybe a few more months" left. Sounds to me like it's a permanently mandated schedule. Definitely not conducive to a budding relationship, especially when there's many things stacked against it already.
As someone who's worked these kinds of hours, while in a relationship, I've found that it's most often not going to work out long term. Not because the desire isn't there. But, rather, the person in your situation tends to start feeling emotions such as not desirable, unwanted, pushed aside for work, losing out to other "priorities". Conversations with family and friends puts even deeper doubts, frustrations and fears into the mind and it snowballs.
Whereas, on the other person's perspective, they get focused on the project while at work. Or, there's times they have to work on something at home. Yet, they are wanting to spend time with the other. Sometimes frustration gets the better of them, and it gets taken out on you because of a lack of understanding. Yet, what seems to keep the two together is the very brief and far too few times you get to spend together which also can become issues in and of themselves.
I experienced this both in my marriage, as well as the majority of relationships I've been in. Most people just do not understand jobs that have high workload and hour requirements when they are not in those kinds of positions. I've had women say they understand and are willing to give it a try. But, in reality, they don't like it and have either cheated on me &/or ended the relationship.
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I think that 99.9% of MFPers are jaded. But I've enjoyed reading this thread.4
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xFunctionalStrengthx wrote: »swagoner94 wrote: »JeepHair77 wrote: »I skipped a few pages... you're co-workers? Not that I'm in a place to judge, but that does complicate things more than is ideal.
Anyway, your problem isn't the age gap (although it may be a problem). It's the experience gap. The "we're in totally different life places and can't completely understand each others' needs" gap.
You also suffer from a perspective gap - at 23, you think 9 months is a long time. He should know by now. You think 2 years is a long time. He should have gotten past this by now. For him - those time periods just aren't that long.
I'm divorced and re-married. I spent a lot of time thinking I NEVER wanted to get married again. I was with my now-husband for a pretty long time and still thought I NEVER wanted to get married again (so I'm not one of those people who just "felt right" when I met the right person). For me, it wasn't a problem with commitment, exactly, but I had this fear that people get "stuck" together - I wanted to know, without a doubt, that I was waking up next to someone that chose to be there, every day, rather than someone that was just there because leaving was too much trouble. I would have happily stayed together forever, living in separate places, keeping separate bank accounts and insurance policies and sleeping over at each others' houses every night. That represented something to me. Does that make sense? Maybe not.
We got there, but it took time. A lot of time. Way more than 9 months. We were "dating" for over 4 years when we got engaged. FWIW, he's also divorced, and sharing custody with his ex, and even though we approached our decision to get married from very different places, there was a lot of value in knowing that we each understood where the other was coming from, and the fears and insecurities that we were each dealing with. I think that's very difficult to do when you're dating someone who just plain doesn't have that experience.
Hey, I just randomly popped back over my old posts and saw this had new replies. This was valuable. Thank you for sharing it. It totally makes sense. I'm actually encouraged to hear it didn't immediately click for you and that it took some time.
Since posting, he has said the words, "I love you," to me.. which is a big deal to me! I'm going to share something pretty personal here, but I also got on a low dose antidepressant - mostly due to PMDD symptoms. I tended to get really, insanely emotional - especially about all this - just about a week out from my period. TMI. Sorry.. but it was a pattern I started noticing. Since taking medication to help balance me out, I feel like I've been waaaaaayyyy better at emotionally practicing patience and keeping my head on straight.
We DO work together.
We work in an industry that's known for something called "crunch," which is a few months of people working 50-90 hours a week... it's intense. It's been that for the last few months and there is maybe a few more months of that. I, personally, don't work those hours since I'm in HR and not one of the developers on the team. HE is. This obviously doesn't give us a ton of time to spend together or deal with this right now. But my hope is that when this is all done, we can re-evaluate this.
I'm going to focus on these parts...
He works "crunch" hours, and you don't. You say it's already been a "few months" and "maybe a few more months" left. Sounds to me like it's a permanently mandated schedule. Definitely not conducive to a budding relationship, especially when there's many things stacked against it already.
As someone who's worked these kinds of hours, while in a relationship, I've found that it's most often not going to work out long term. Not because the desire isn't there. But, rather, the person in your situation tends to start feeling emotions such as not desirable, unwanted, pushed aside for work, losing out to other "priorities". Conversations with family and friends puts even deeper doubts, frustrations and fears into the mind and it snowballs.
Whereas, on the other person's perspective, they get focused on the project while at work. Or, there's times they have to work on something at home. Yet, they are wanting to spend time with the other. Sometimes frustration gets the better of them, and it gets taken out on you because of a lack of understanding. Yet, what seems to keep the two together is the very brief and far too few times you get to spend together which also can become issues in and of themselves.
I experienced this both in my marriage, as well as the majority of relationships I've been in. Most people just do not understand jobs that have high workload and hour requirements when they are not in those kinds of positions. I've had women say they understand and are willing to give it a try. But, in reality, they don't like it and have either cheated on me &/or ended the relationship.
We work in video games. So it’s “crunch” while the game is about to launch. Once it launches it chills out for the next two years until we have to launch again.2 -
We broke up.. thanks again everyone. 12
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