Myth or not a myth?
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I kind of feel bad for Nooshi. Her own situation must not be very much fun for it to cloud her perception/comprehension as much as it did in this thread. She was so irritated over one phrase she couldn't see anything else. I still think this forum might have been able to help her. Ah well...8
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Wow, lots of good stuff in this thread. The entire phrase, "You can eat whatever you want if you stay below your daily calorie burn and lose weight" is a true statement. The reason to limit food high in calories and low in nutrition is that you will miss out on nutrition. Also there is a process called sugar crash that can occur if you eat sugar or other foods the body turns into sugar, like bread, white rice, and pasta. The body releases insulin to reduce the sugar levels in the blood. That leads to lower blood sugar and hunger.
Also, according to Covert Bailey (author of Fit or Fat), losing weight by eating less make you a thin fat person. Covert Bailey is all about lean body mass or Body Fat Percentage. By increasing the muscle in the body, the body burns more calories every day. You can cut calories and make the scale show a number you want, and still feel terrible.
By getting more fit, through resistance training (weights) and exercise you feel better. Muscle is denser than fat, so you may weigh as much as you do now, but fit into much smaller clothes. Also, by burning more calories you can eat more calories and remain the same size.
One myth that is true is "Many people say they want to lose weight, but really they want to become more fit."
Any change to your body will require a change in your lifestyle. Good Luck!4 -
I kind of feel bad for Nooshi. I still think this forum might have been able to help her. Ah well...
She might be a troll. Her one point was, for her, "setting out to eat one slice of pizza ends up many slices of pizza and therefore no pizza at all, and therefore she can't eat whatever she wants" She saw that as true for here and therefore must be true for every other person.
She doesn't have much on her profile page, member since 2016. I'm not sure what her motivation is. I wish her the best though. Good Luck Nooshi if you read this.
Arguing with a troll and trying to capture a pig in the mud are similar as after 10 minutes, you realize the pig likes it.
Good Luck All!
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I just skimmed the responses so forgive any repeating of information:
-Yes, you will lose weight if 1200cal/day is less than what you ingest now.
-However, to get the full benefit of weight loss, a balanced diet is best.
-Lots of information on the Net may be incorrect or someone's opinion. A good website to go to that has "evidence based" information is www.choosemyplate.gov. It is a website sponsored by the Federal Government and its information is easy to read and understand. It is a website that I referenced when I was a RN/Health Coach.0 -
Sp8zmanSpiff wrote: »I kind of feel bad for Nooshi. I still think this forum might have been able to help her. Ah well...
She might be a troll. Her one point was, for her, "setting out to eat one slice of pizza ends up many slices of pizza and therefore no pizza at all, and therefore she can't eat whatever she wants" She saw that as true for here and therefore must be true for every other person.
She doesn't have much on her profile page, member since 2016. I'm not sure what her motivation is. I wish her the best though. Good Luck Nooshi if you read this.
Arguing with a troll and trying to capture a pig in the mud are similar as after 10 minutes, you realize the pig likes it.
Good Luck All!
She wasn't a troll. I have a finely honed trolldar after 25 year of posting/modding/administrating/sysoping.
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Sp8zmanSpiff wrote: »I kind of feel bad for Nooshi. I still think this forum might have been able to help her. Ah well...
She might be a troll. Her one point was, for her, "setting out to eat one slice of pizza ends up many slices of pizza and therefore no pizza at all, and therefore she can't eat whatever she wants" She saw that as true for here and therefore must be true for every other person.
She doesn't have much on her profile page, member since 2016. I'm not sure what her motivation is. I wish her the best though. Good Luck Nooshi if you read this.
Arguing with a troll and trying to capture a pig in the mud are similar as after 10 minutes, you realize the pig likes it.
Good Luck All!
She wasn't a troll. I have a finely honed trolldar after 25 year of posting/modding/administrating/sysoping.
Agree, just a very frustrated person. and I'll see your 25 and raise you.
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stanmann571 wrote: »
Agree, just a very frustrated person. and I'll see your 25 and raise you.
This is a competition I don't want to be in. I am scared to think of what my lifetime post grand total might be.
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stanmann571 wrote: »
Agree, just a very frustrated person. and I'll see your 25 and raise you.
This is a competition I don't want to be in. I am scared to think of what my lifetime post grand total might be.
Scary. I spent a lot of time in some very active newsgroups so half a million maybe?2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Scary. I spent a lot of time in some very active newsgroups so half a million maybe?
Sure. Yeah. 500k only.
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Like most of the people on here, the "junk food" isn't as filling and you can't eat much if you stick to just that. However, I have been a junk food junkie for too many years to give it up 100% of the time so I have learned to incorporate it into my meals.
I personally still eat pizza, burgers and tacos however I make them all at home now 95% of the time. I make pizza out of whole wheat tortilla or pita shells to help cut calories. I use extra lean ground beef. One thing I learned very recently though is that I severely underestimated my meat portions. When I bought a scale a couple of weeks ago I was horrified by how much I was truly eating. I now have skinny burgers LOL
If I want an ice cream in the evening I make sure i have the calories for it first or will go for a walk so I can enjoy it guilt free. I am not a sweet eater, for the most part I prefer the salt. Give me potato chips any day over a cookie. I now eat more popcorn or baked chips instead of fried.
I have found that my body, when I'm truly listening to it, tells me when I'm on the right track and I feel better eating the healthier foods now than when I overindulge in the junk.
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Not sure what to do next....
Did low carb or Keto or something about three years ago and dropped 40 pounds.
I kept the carbs really low and strict for two years but managed to gain 16 pounds back over those two years. Basically eating too much.
In February I kept with the same carb restricted program but started measuring all portions and logging everything. I also added in exercise. That works really good, dropped the 16 pounds I gained back and another 16.
So should I keep the low carb keto thing going, just count calories or both. About 20 pounds to goal. I started my original journey at about 250, dropped to 203 (Keto), up to 217 (keto eating too much) now 186 (keto, counting cals and excercising). Shooting for 170ish. 5 foot 11 male 49 years old?
I welcome your comments but don't be mean!1 -
Not sure what to do next....
Did low carb or Keto or something about three years ago and dropped 40 pounds.
I kept the carbs really low and strict for two years but managed to gain 16 pounds back over those two years. Basically eating too much.
In February I kept with the same carb restricted program but started measuring all portions and logging everything. I also added in exercise. That works really good, dropped the 16 pounds I gained back and another 16.
So should I keep the low carb keto thing going, just count calories or both. About 20 pounds to goal. I started my original journey at about 250, dropped to 203 (Keto), up to 217 (keto eating too much) now 186 (keto, counting cals and excercising). Shooting for 170ish. 5 foot 11 male 49 years old?
I welcome your comments but don't be mean!
If you like eating that way and it satiates you, keep it up. If you'd rather have some more carbs in your life, it's OK too. It's a total personal preference on how it's easiest for YOU to stay under your calorie goals. But regardless of WHAT or HOW you eat, keep logging as it seems to be key for you. You've proven you can't just eat keto and not worry about calories. And exercise is always great for your health.0 -
At this point I am sort of afraid of carbs. I have this theory if I'm not dieting I am gaining weight, therefore I will always be dieting. The fear though is that if I start eating carbs again I will go back to 250 cause I can eat a lot when I'm not in control!0
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You shouldn't fear any food. For some people some types of carbs are trigger foods and make them hungrier. You might want to slowly start adding some carbs back (while keeping your calories under control) and see how you feel. You also might have a bit of a weight gain at the beginning from water, but try not to freak out. Use a weight trending app. Maybe start with some fruit.0
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At this point I am sort of afraid of carbs. I have this theory if I'm not dieting I am gaining weight, therefore I will always be dieting. The fear though is that if I start eating carbs again I will go back to 250 cause I can eat a lot when I'm not in control!
I am afraid that is not healthy. You can't be afraid of eating. During the time you were losing did you log your food and keep up with calories? If not, that is a good place to start to learn how to be comfortable with food choices. Keto is a way of eating but you still need a calorie deficit to lose weight and calorie median to maintain your weight when you are done losing. Understanding that will give you some freedom from the myth that "not" dieting will immediately equate to gaining weight.
You should also know that transitioning on and off Keto will come with water weight fluctuations. When you go on it you will lose water weight and if you come off of it you will gain it back. This scares some Keto followers and perhaps helps perpetuate your personal fear.
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Not sure what to do next....
Did low carb or Keto or something about three years ago and dropped 40 pounds.
I kept the carbs really low and strict for two years but managed to gain 16 pounds back over those two years. Basically eating too much.
In February I kept with the same carb restricted program but started measuring all portions and logging everything. I also added in exercise. That works really good, dropped the 16 pounds I gained back and another 16.
So should I keep the low carb keto thing going, just count calories or both. About 20 pounds to goal. I started my original journey at about 250, dropped to 203 (Keto), up to 217 (keto eating too much) now 186 (keto, counting cals and excercising). Shooting for 170ish. 5 foot 11 male 49 years old?
I welcome your comments but don't be mean!
It depends. Look how you regained your weight. What happened? Why did you start overeating? Did you enjoy the diet and felt satisfied and happy on it, but just lost focus and slipped back? Did the diet contribute to you gaining because you felt restricted and more of the stuff you like but didn't learn to moderate crept back? Were you not mentally prepared for maintenance? Were you not prepared experience-wise because you were overly rigid with your diet and couldn't handle the flexibility maintenance needs?
Just think about your past gaining experiences and prepare strategies to counter them when they happen again in the future. If you felt the diet was pleasant, keep it, if you felt it was restrictive, stop doing low carb. It all really depends on how your gain happened, so it's hard to give you any specific advice.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
I would say that eating fries, chocolate, and pizza within quantities that meet one's calorie goal is moderation.
OP could eat these foods often within her calorie goal if she wanted to. Even a calorie goal of 1,200 would allow for, say, a fun-sized candy bar, a piece of pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of french fries daily with 635 calories to spare. And we have no reason to believe that OP is even wanting to eat all these foods within a single day, but we know that she could and still lose weight.
Maybe those serving sizes wouldn't be satisfying to you. That's good information for you when planning your meals, it's irrelevant to OP.
Maybe you would struggle with hunger on a plan that sometimes included those foods. Again, great information for you, not so important for anyone else.
The important thing: if 1,200 calories is a deficit for someone, then eating 635 calories a day plus a fun-sized Snickers, a piece of Papa John's thin crust pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of McDonald's fries would result in weight loss. That's the question OP asked. Are you saying we should say "No" in response to that question?
If you could figure out that pizza doesn't work for you in the context of a deficit, why can't we assume that OP will also figure it out if it is true for her?
She may figure out what works for her. I hope she does. For a lot of people who are new to dieting, sticking with all of their same calorie rich foods and/or their usual portion sizes probably will end in failure though. Most people want to be full and not super hungry at the end of the day. If someone likes no healthy or lower calorie foods, then they will probably have a hard time sticking to their calorie budget eating only rich foods. That's the point I'm trying to make.
You're free to recommend elimination diets to the OP or tell her that she needs to stop eating pizza because you don't find 255 calories of it satisfying. You may give whatever advice you want.
I'm going to stick with giving the advice that I know worked for me and I've seen work for other people here: Weight loss is created by a calorie deficit and it's okay to experiment to find what works for you to create that deficit, including eating foods that you enjoy.
I'm not recommending an elimination diet nor telling her to never eat pizza. I never said those things.
Then I have no idea why you're so worked up about people telling OP it's okay to eat pizza sometimes.4 -
Thanks M23 I have been thinking of adding a carbs back a little, before I hit goal. I am not worried about water weight and know that an overnight change in weight up or down is not real, it's just my body. I have gone up two one week and dropped three the next. I know if I am on program or not and am very disciplined, therefore I am 100% on my program.
I don't agree fear is not healthy NovusD, I keeps me in check. Fear of overeating or bad food choices can help motivate you to not overeat or choose the right foods. Fear can be a great personal motivator as long as you are not inflicting fear on others. That would be bad!
Oh yes I meant to say to M23, when I hit goal I am not going off my diet and am just increasing the calories I allow myself to eat. I will never go off my diet because to me diet is how I control my eating and my way of eating right.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
I would say that eating fries, chocolate, and pizza within quantities that meet one's calorie goal is moderation.
OP could eat these foods often within her calorie goal if she wanted to. Even a calorie goal of 1,200 would allow for, say, a fun-sized candy bar, a piece of pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of french fries daily with 635 calories to spare. And we have no reason to believe that OP is even wanting to eat all these foods within a single day, but we know that she could and still lose weight.
Maybe those serving sizes wouldn't be satisfying to you. That's good information for you when planning your meals, it's irrelevant to OP.
Maybe you would struggle with hunger on a plan that sometimes included those foods. Again, great information for you, not so important for anyone else.
The important thing: if 1,200 calories is a deficit for someone, then eating 635 calories a day plus a fun-sized Snickers, a piece of Papa John's thin crust pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of McDonald's fries would result in weight loss. That's the question OP asked. Are you saying we should say "No" in response to that question?
If you could figure out that pizza doesn't work for you in the context of a deficit, why can't we assume that OP will also figure it out if it is true for her?
She may figure out what works for her. I hope she does. For a lot of people who are new to dieting, sticking with all of their same calorie rich foods and/or their usual portion sizes probably will end in failure though. Most people want to be full and not super hungry at the end of the day. If someone likes no healthy or lower calorie foods, then they will probably have a hard time sticking to their calorie budget eating only rich foods. That's the point I'm trying to make.
You're free to recommend elimination diets to the OP or tell her that she needs to stop eating pizza because you don't find 255 calories of it satisfying. You may give whatever advice you want.
I'm going to stick with giving the advice that I know worked for me and I've seen work for other people here: Weight loss is created by a calorie deficit and it's okay to experiment to find what works for you to create that deficit, including eating foods that you enjoy.
I'm not recommending an elimination diet nor telling her to never eat pizza. I never said those things.
Then I have no idea why you're so worked up about people telling OP it's okay to eat pizza sometimes.
Ok I never had a problem with telling her to eat pizza sometimes. I never said I was eating 1200 calories. You guys have twisted my posts so much that it was too frustrating to continue the conversation yesterday. My whole point was that sometimes eating what you want isnt possible on ones calorie deficit. Halo top is not worth eating to me. I'm certainly not a troll. One thing I will say is that several posters here arent very nice and this entire post has been very discouraging.12 -
Hi Amused-
Funny I know exactly what happened. Our house got hit by a tornado and we move to a hotel. I had no problem keeping to low carbs but I stopped measuring and counting. I never and I mean never feel full. Full to me is satisfied. I can eat and still feel hungry. Some will want to argue that point but it is true for me. So if I don't log measure and count I will overeat.
Your right a tornado and living in a hotel is a poor excuse but that's really what happened and why I stopped measuring. The good news is in two years I only gained 16 pounds and not all forty back. I attribute that to sticking with the low carbs.2
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