Myth or not a myth?
Replies
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Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. People new to counting calories dont know how far 1200 or 1500 caloroes go. They may try eating the same junk foods, realize their calories have quickly run out, end up hungry, and give up. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.
To be clear. "Whatever" does not suggest quantity. It suggests choice in type. If someone attaches quantity to a choice that is not implied that is on them, not the statement.
Words are important.
This is how i would word it. I can eat whatever I want, just not how much of it as i want.
I have 3 slices of pizza instead of 6. I no longer order Garlic bread.
I buy halo Top instead of regular ice cream.
I use cauliflower rice in place of regular rice.
I load my plate with huge salads instead of potatoes. I need to do this with veggies too, as i dont eat near enough!
Above all, i do NOT, or very rarely buy foods that i know i have little self control around, such as peanut butter, Nutella, chips, chocolate covered pretzels. I could go on and on
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So far it is. The hardest part for me is sticking to my calorie budget without being hungry. That has forced me to eliminate my favorite foods for the most part because they dont fit in my calorie budget.
EXACTLY. But you CAN still eat your FAVOURITE FOODS ONCE IN A WHILE WITHIN YOUR BUDGET.
The point is that in order to lose weight and maintain your weight you have to forge a new reality where instead of literally asking yourself "am I going to order extra large fries AGAIN? I've had fries with every single meal THIS WEEK! I wish McDonald's had some salad"... which is an ACTUAL SELF DIALOGUE I'VE HAD several years ago when they didn't offer salads.... you look through your log and you discover a single small order of fries, a steak sandwich with fries, and an all you can eat fish and chips dinner which involved at least 250g of chips, THIS YEAR.
So eating your favourite foods does not mean having fries every day because then you won't be able to stay within your budget.
Simpez.
Exactly. I have budgeted treats in occasionally but that certainly does not mean "whatever I want".
It DOES. It is 100% exactly and precisely what it means.
You can eat whatever the *kitten* you want. AS LONG AS YOU CAN STICK TO YOUR BUDGET.
So you have to budget and ration and make choices because you... have a budget!
And consequences when you can't stick to it.
Hey @nooshi713: I work a minimum wage job and Shania Twain is coming to town. Can I go see her? I dig that chick!
Why, yes, PAV888 if you can make it fit your budget go see Shania, but you might find yourself a bit short of rent money if you're not very careful. and, now that I think of it, you might not even be able to get front row seats, but perhaps a nice seat in the nosebleed section will let you have some fun!
@nooshi713, you *kitten* why are you **kittening** me by saying I can go see Shania.
I TOLD YOU I am making minimum wage. And I have to pay rent. And I want to see Shania and Jay-Z, and Biebs and Pearl Jam, and Eminem, and eat lost of M&Ms for that matter!
So OBVIOUSLY I can't go see all of them so why are you lying to me and pretending that I can!
All I can afford to do is go to the park and listen to whoever the city brings in for free in conjunction with the harvest festival, or maybe the Jazz festival, or the big parade festival.
You liar you, telling me I can go to whichever concert I want to if I can fit it in my budget.
As a 3 year MFP veteran (97 lbs and still losing) and a person who tends to spend $ like you describe (concerts and more trips than I can afford) this hits close to home. My credit card bills are my 100+ lbs overweight!
It just shows, hopefully to the OP and to the “contrarians” that we can always learn something new or a way to reframe our thinking. Thank you!5 -
catzzm9768 wrote: »Hello!:), im starting my weight loss journey, just need help and guidance really, soo ive been googling soo much lately on what i can eat, and i came across you can eat whatever you like but dont go over your daily calorie, my calorie daily to loose weight is 1,200 so can i still eat fries, chocolate , pizza as long as i dont go over 1,200? Will i still loose weight? im not very active i will walk sometimes, plus i dont like healthy foods such as salads i hate them so id find it very hard.
I will track my food on here before eating them.
Thank you!
Yes, OP you can eat whatever you want, as long as the portion you need to stick to in order to fit your calorie goal satisfies you. As others have said, you may have to make some hard choices if some of those foods don't work in appropriate portions. If you run into problems and need help figuring out how to make those decisions, please feel free to come back and ask more questions!
I would also suggest you give a little thought to your weekly weight loss goal. 1.5 or 2 lbs per week is only appropriate to obese people with a lot to lose. It's possible you got such a low goal because you are looking for an aggressive rate of loss.
As for the derail this thread has started down, I see no reason to assume someone who has found MFP and made a wise decision to play with the numbers and log food and exercise can't figure out through trial and error which foods/portion sizes will work for them and which won't. Suggesting telling someone they can eat whatever they want means they will assume they can eat unlimited amounts is really insulting to people. Once you start accurately logging, it's kind of impossible to miss if your preferred size of your favorite food takes up all your calories
You always say what I think.3 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
Unlimited, or too large, amounts of something, is, again, not what "whatever" means.kommodevaran wrote: »
You watch, but you don't see? You read, but you don't understand what you read?janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. People new to counting calories dont know how far 1200 or 1500 calories go. They may try eating the same junk foods, realize their calories have quickly run out, end up hungry, and give up. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.
There’s a big difference between “whatever you want” and “however MUCH you want”. Try thinking of it that way?
I know there is a difference but a lot of people reading these boards may not. As I mentioned earlier, I asked a few people IRL what they thought of that comment..... They all pretty much said whatever you want is unlimited of what they want.
Do these real life people log their food?
I'm not sure. Some of them have lost a lot of weight. I work in a hospital so I asked some of the nurses there that have lost a good amount of weight. I just asked them what they thought of that comment. The people I know that have lost significant weight are not eating junk food all the time. I see their lunches at work, primarily healthy foods and portion sizes.
I think it was "condemning the OP to failure", not general condemnation, and suggesting that you can suggest an elimination diet if you want, not that you did.So far it is. The hardest part for me is sticking to my calorie budget without being hungry. That has forced me to eliminate my favorite foods for the most part because they dont fit in my calorie budget.
Ok. Why don't you open your diary and start a new thread and see if there is some advice this forum can give you for helping you with your hunger so you can have more of your favorite foods?
I am being 100 percent serious. There is a chance some of the really smart and experienced people here can give you some ideas with which to experiment.
I thought about it but it seems a lot of people in this message board are very judgemental. I mean in this message board people have accused me of condemning the OP and suggesting an elimination diet which I never did.
My whole point is that an occasional treat or small portion of it is doable, but that is not whatever you want.
You could up your calories a bit. You could redefine hungry. You could stop the feeling of entitlement. Maybe you're envoius of some phantom, but, reality check: No average height and normal weight female can eat 600 calories of ice cream often and still maintain a normal weight and get in good nutrition, unless she is very active.I pretty much have a good knowledge base already. I know what I have to do. I am doing it. I just have to live with either being hungry and eating my favorite foods or being more full and avoiding my favorites. I eat treats occasionally. If someone has some magic way of fitting 600 CALORIES OF Haagen Daaz fit into 1400 calorie budget where I can still be full let me know. It is not possible.
That's what "whatever I want" suggests to me and I'm not the only one who interprets that comment that way. I know that I cant eat ice cream every day. I dont eat it every day. That is the whole point i have been making. I dont feel entitled. I know I cant eat whatever I want and still lose weight. My maintenance calories range from 1700-1900 with exercise so upping my calories isnt an option. Losing weight is not easy.
For that not to be what "whatever you want" suggests to you, you have to be willfully ignoring every single post in this thread you're currently in. Including the OP herself. You're projecting your own problems into others. Hard.14 -
If someone has some magic way of fitting 600 CALORIES OF Haagen Daaz into a1400 calorie budget where I can still be full let me know. It is not possible.
1. Halo top or the whole slew of competitors that use various combinations of fiber and polyalcohols and higher protein content to create a pint-ish of ice cream-like in the 320 to 400 Cal range.
2. Frozen banana + frozen lower calorie fruits such as blueberries, strawberries, or peaches and blended with various combinations of 0% or 2% yogurt/greek yogurt, milk, milk substitutes, with or without protein powder, with or without ice.
You're welcome.
Another option would be: save 85 calories a day (or create it with more activity, which is surprisingly easy if you introduce small NEAT stuff) and have 600 calories of Haagen Daaz once a week.4 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. People new to counting calories dont know how far 1200 or 1500 caloroes go. They may try eating the same junk foods, realize their calories have quickly run out, end up hungry, and give up. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.
To be clear. "Whatever" does not suggest quantity. It suggests choice in type. If someone attaches quantity to a choice that is not implied that is on them, not the statement.
Words are important.
This is how i would word it. I can eat whatever I want, just not how much of it as i want.
I have 3 slices of pizza instead of 6. I no longer order Garlic bread.
I buy halo Top instead of regular ice cream.
I use cauliflower rice in place of regular rice.
I load my plate with huge salads instead of potatoes. I need to do this with veggies too, as i dont eat near enough!
Above all, i do NOT, or very rarely buy foods that i know i have little self control around, such as peanut butter, Nutella, chips, chocolate covered pretzels. I could go on and on
The way I word it is:
I can pick two out of these three: whatever I want, as much as I want, as often as I want.
- I can have high calorie foods as often as I want, but limit quantity to fit calories.
- I can have high calorie foods in larger quantities, but I can't have that every day.
- I can have large quantities of a food every day, but I'm limited to lower calorie choices.
I use all three strategies depending on the food item.
ETA: Calories need to be cut somewhere, so some things need to change. To claim the "eat whatever you want" crowd are saying just go ham on everything or eat nothing but high calorie foods seriously makes me want to understand how people think. Any normal person would rather not be hungry all the time, so when you eat whatever you want, your choices tend to self correct to minimize hunger when being hungry isn't worth it. They also tend to self correct when there is a larger mental need for not feeling restricted or rigid. A person's diet just evolves based on their needs. No normal person would be happy limiting their entire day to a couple of slices of cheesecake every single day. Similarely, no normal person would be happy feeling like they suffer and white knuckle every single day. People and their needs and reactions are way more dynamic than straw men builders seem to think.6 -
dollarbill181 wrote: »Even though I stayed under my calorie goal my weight would barely budge or go down. Once I started counting my carbs and ignoring calories, i was eating more than I was before and higher calories, but my weight finally started to drop.
If you weren't counting calories how do you know you were eating more calories than before?
I would suggest that you may have felt you were eating more, because you were hungry less; but in reality you were creating a calorie deficit.
CICO.3 -
I am not doing any worst case scenario. I have said many things that are true. Many people struggle with hunger, with portion control, and fitting foods they like in their calorie budget. All truths.
Those things are true but they have nothing to do with making a statement misleading or not.
I was accused of being unrealistic. Many people can't make their favorite foods a frequent part of their calorie budget in a portion that is satisfying. That is reality for some people. I'm just being scapegoated here and attacked for no reason. I see now why some people join MFP but never post. Adios.
My last word I promise. If you want to lose weight AND maintain a certain lower weight, you will have to change your idea of satisfying. It’s not tragic - just a simple fact. As they say, choose your hard.
And the amazing thing is that over a year or two of discipline, it will change.
I'm 2 years in, and down from 265. Currently around 235. I've been as low as 227. I've been chipping away at getting into maintenance in the 220 range for about the last year. I'm not in a huge hurry to get there, 3 years ago, I could have polished off a large double cheese extra meat feast pizza with no problem, and still wanted more--not hungry, just wanting more. This spring, On a change of pace day(not cheating) I had 3 slices of pep and was way past satisfied. Not only that, but the 3 slices was actually FEWER calories than my normal dinner. So I hit my calories. It blew me away.4 -
Nice to see a community here with so much good advice. I'm no expert or role model, but my understanding is that as you begin your process, you should focus more on calorie density in foods. That is, foods that are high in calorie density will generally satiate you less than foods that are low in calorie density. Calorie density means literally how many calories a food has per gram. The theory is that with a low calorie density food like say, an apple, you should be able to feel more "full" than with a high calorie density food, like a steak. So 100grams of apple will carry fewer calories than 100 grams of steak, but should make you feel just as "full."2
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It’s true! But it’s hard to maintain 1200 calories when your diet is all pizza and chocolate and fries lol1
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Nice to see a community here with so much good advice. I'm no expert or role model, but my understanding is that as you begin your process, you should focus more on calorie density in foods. That is, foods that are high in calorie density will generally satiate you less than foods that are low in calorie density. Calorie density means literally how many calories a food has per gram. The theory is that with a low calorie density food like say, an apple, you should be able to feel more "full" than with a high calorie density food, like a steak. So 100grams of apple will carry fewer calories than 100 grams of steak, but should make you feel just as "full."
You should find food that fits your lifestyle and that satiates you personally. It’s an individual thing. Giving advice like, you should eat this not that, is what makes people inconsistent. It takes a lifestyle change for results that last. Not swapping steak for apples, not even a little bit.3 -
As others have posted, you are going to have to experiment, to find what works for you.
For me, starchy carbs just leave me wanting more, more, more. (I was tested and found out I have some food allergies and sensitivities, so there is the way my body is processing or attempting to process certain foods to consider.)
Lean proteins and vegetables (I like and can tolerate) can leave me feeling satiated for hours. Combinations of whole grains and lean proteins can do the same "magic". But, I have had years to figure all of this out. Learning to limit my intake of high calorie(s), but tiny portions of certain foods I love is something I have learned to do and accept.
Mostly I don't eat them, even though I love them, because I am not getting "the bang for my buck" so to speak. I do occasionally though. I just have to cut back on other things and, "Now I can't have fresh mozz, tomatoes, basil and olive oil drizzle because I already ate cheesecake! Better luck next time!" (Inner monologue.)
Eat what you like.0 -
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Wow after reading through this whole train wreck this morning I can’t decide if I’m happy or sad that I missed getting in on the ground floor or not.
One of my pet peeves on these boards is the willful misinterpretation of what people are posting. Manother is the insinuation that if every post does not address every possible individual variable and scenario (when not explicitly stated or even insinuated) then none of the collective posts and general advice have any merit whatsoever. If one person offers a simple answer to the question that was asked and does not provide caveats, then suddenly all the other advice is worthless and should be ignored because some mythical poster might misinterpret the simple and direct response to the question asked. The last pet peeve of mine is the assumption that no one on these boards is smart enough to monitor and adjust based on their own hunger cues and satiety.
This thread seems to hit the trifecta!17 -
Same here, Even when normalized for calories, 200 calories of steak is going to keep me happy a lot longer than 200 calories of apple.5 -
I am not doing any worst case scenario. I have said many things that are true. Many people struggle with hunger, with portion control, and fitting foods they like in their calorie budget. All truths.
Those things are true but they have nothing to do with making a statement misleading or not.
I was accused of being unrealistic. Many people can't make their favorite foods a frequent part of their calorie budget in a portion that is satisfying. That is reality for some people. I'm just being scapegoated here and attacked for no reason. I see now why some people join MFP but never post. Adios.
That sucks for you. I on the other hand am blessed to not have trigger foods, not be a volume eater, AND I worked to increase my activity so that my TDEE is higher than the average 5’2 female over forty with a desk job (2200)
Last night in fact I had the calories for half a thin crust (STL style so super thin) pizza and toasted ravioli and a glass of wine with room for dessert. But, I was so full that I put the last piece of pizza back and didn’t have dessert, ending the day with about 400 extra cals to bank for this weekend (and I will need them all and then some!). How come you get to demand that everyone’s advice cater to the scenario where a person isn’t satiated by the amount of food I ate last night but I don’t get to demand that you cater your advice to my situation? I typically don’t mention a scenario like last night because I know I’m an exception but damn it I worked to get my step count up to 12k-15k per day, I balance my days where I know I’m going to have something like pizza for dinner with lower cal and higher nutrient breakfast and lunch plus my usual exercise, and I shouldn’t feel guilty because I do eat whatever I want. The reason I say that is because I’m sensible enough to know that what I want is to have good nutrition, lead an active lifestyle, and feel satiated.... those things that I want do not rule out pizza nor do they mean I’m eating nothing but pizza.
*I mean no disrespect to people who are struggling to feel satisfied while eating at a deficit or to the people who choose no pizza instead of a little pizza. I used to think that everyone should just do what I do and will be satisfied by the same foods and same quantities that I’m satisfied by. I’m not bragging about my calorie requirement or my dietary choices - I’m simply trying to point out that rather than assuming everyone is destined to be miserable why don’t we encourage people to have reasonable goals, be active, and focus on finding the right solution for themselves; but let’s also give people the benefit of the doubt that they are smart enough to do that for themselves with trial and error.
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As long as 1200 cals puts you in a calorie deficit, then yes you'll lose weight.
However, it can be hard to sustain the type of diet you mentioned (fries, chocolate, pizza) because the quantity of food will end up being pretty small/low. Also, consider overall health/nutrition...
This. A single slice of large deluxe pizza can be as high as 480 calories. Imagine eating nothing but two slices of pizza all day and maybe a small salad. However, switching to more lean meats, lower calorie prepared versions of vegetables, and another side, and you can make a couple decent meals, and even add in some breakfast for 1200 calories. It's not that you can't eat specific foods, it's that you have to balance the calories of the food you're eating with your need for food.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.
To the bolded, they will learn just like you did no doubt, by logging food and learning from their mistakes.
OP asked if she can eat whatever she wants as long as she sticks to her calories. She has literally told us she understands there is a limit.
You can repeat it as much as you want, but "You can eat whatever you want as long as you hit your calorie goal" does NOT in any way equal "You can eat whatever you want in whatever quantity you want". If someone decides to hear something we aren't actually saying, then they will no doubt figure it out the first time they log a whole thick crust pizza or multiple chocolate bars.Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »
To be clear. "Whatever" does not suggest quantity. It suggests choice in type. If someone attaches quantity to a choice that is not implied that is on them, not the statement.
Words are important.
And this is why generally like to read threads the whole way through before replying. Of course, I'm breaking that "rule" now.
But yeah: whatever != however much
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Eat what you want as long as you stay within your calories; ignore the hyperbole; measure and weigh to make sure you're really in a deficit. Done.3
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I kind of feel bad for Nooshi. Her own situation must not be very much fun for it to cloud her perception/comprehension as much as it did in this thread. She was so irritated over one phrase she couldn't see anything else. I still think this forum might have been able to help her. Ah well...8
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Wow, lots of good stuff in this thread. The entire phrase, "You can eat whatever you want if you stay below your daily calorie burn and lose weight" is a true statement. The reason to limit food high in calories and low in nutrition is that you will miss out on nutrition. Also there is a process called sugar crash that can occur if you eat sugar or other foods the body turns into sugar, like bread, white rice, and pasta. The body releases insulin to reduce the sugar levels in the blood. That leads to lower blood sugar and hunger.
Also, according to Covert Bailey (author of Fit or Fat), losing weight by eating less make you a thin fat person. Covert Bailey is all about lean body mass or Body Fat Percentage. By increasing the muscle in the body, the body burns more calories every day. You can cut calories and make the scale show a number you want, and still feel terrible.
By getting more fit, through resistance training (weights) and exercise you feel better. Muscle is denser than fat, so you may weigh as much as you do now, but fit into much smaller clothes. Also, by burning more calories you can eat more calories and remain the same size.
One myth that is true is "Many people say they want to lose weight, but really they want to become more fit."
Any change to your body will require a change in your lifestyle. Good Luck!4 -
I kind of feel bad for Nooshi. I still think this forum might have been able to help her. Ah well...
She might be a troll. Her one point was, for her, "setting out to eat one slice of pizza ends up many slices of pizza and therefore no pizza at all, and therefore she can't eat whatever she wants" She saw that as true for here and therefore must be true for every other person.
She doesn't have much on her profile page, member since 2016. I'm not sure what her motivation is. I wish her the best though. Good Luck Nooshi if you read this.
Arguing with a troll and trying to capture a pig in the mud are similar as after 10 minutes, you realize the pig likes it.
Good Luck All!
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I just skimmed the responses so forgive any repeating of information:
-Yes, you will lose weight if 1200cal/day is less than what you ingest now.
-However, to get the full benefit of weight loss, a balanced diet is best.
-Lots of information on the Net may be incorrect or someone's opinion. A good website to go to that has "evidence based" information is www.choosemyplate.gov. It is a website sponsored by the Federal Government and its information is easy to read and understand. It is a website that I referenced when I was a RN/Health Coach.0 -
Sp8zmanSpiff wrote: »I kind of feel bad for Nooshi. I still think this forum might have been able to help her. Ah well...
She might be a troll. Her one point was, for her, "setting out to eat one slice of pizza ends up many slices of pizza and therefore no pizza at all, and therefore she can't eat whatever she wants" She saw that as true for here and therefore must be true for every other person.
She doesn't have much on her profile page, member since 2016. I'm not sure what her motivation is. I wish her the best though. Good Luck Nooshi if you read this.
Arguing with a troll and trying to capture a pig in the mud are similar as after 10 minutes, you realize the pig likes it.
Good Luck All!
She wasn't a troll. I have a finely honed trolldar after 25 year of posting/modding/administrating/sysoping.
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Sp8zmanSpiff wrote: »I kind of feel bad for Nooshi. I still think this forum might have been able to help her. Ah well...
She might be a troll. Her one point was, for her, "setting out to eat one slice of pizza ends up many slices of pizza and therefore no pizza at all, and therefore she can't eat whatever she wants" She saw that as true for here and therefore must be true for every other person.
She doesn't have much on her profile page, member since 2016. I'm not sure what her motivation is. I wish her the best though. Good Luck Nooshi if you read this.
Arguing with a troll and trying to capture a pig in the mud are similar as after 10 minutes, you realize the pig likes it.
Good Luck All!
She wasn't a troll. I have a finely honed trolldar after 25 year of posting/modding/administrating/sysoping.
Agree, just a very frustrated person. and I'll see your 25 and raise you. 5 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
Agree, just a very frustrated person. and I'll see your 25 and raise you.
This is a competition I don't want to be in. I am scared to think of what my lifetime post grand total might be.
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stanmann571 wrote: »
Agree, just a very frustrated person. and I'll see your 25 and raise you.
This is a competition I don't want to be in. I am scared to think of what my lifetime post grand total might be.
Scary. I spent a lot of time in some very active newsgroups so half a million maybe?2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Scary. I spent a lot of time in some very active newsgroups so half a million maybe?
Sure. Yeah. 500k only.
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Like most of the people on here, the "junk food" isn't as filling and you can't eat much if you stick to just that. However, I have been a junk food junkie for too many years to give it up 100% of the time so I have learned to incorporate it into my meals.
I personally still eat pizza, burgers and tacos however I make them all at home now 95% of the time. I make pizza out of whole wheat tortilla or pita shells to help cut calories. I use extra lean ground beef. One thing I learned very recently though is that I severely underestimated my meat portions. When I bought a scale a couple of weeks ago I was horrified by how much I was truly eating. I now have skinny burgers LOL
If I want an ice cream in the evening I make sure i have the calories for it first or will go for a walk so I can enjoy it guilt free. I am not a sweet eater, for the most part I prefer the salt. Give me potato chips any day over a cookie. I now eat more popcorn or baked chips instead of fried.
I have found that my body, when I'm truly listening to it, tells me when I'm on the right track and I feel better eating the healthier foods now than when I overindulge in the junk.
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