Myth or not a myth?
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?16 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.26 -
Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Becasue they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
If common sense doesnt enter the equation you end up at is the 0 point ww foods that you can eat unlimited amounts of and why cant i lose weight threads.
Its not being misled. Its a lack of critical thinking.
A lot of people grew up with too large of portions or too much of the wrong foods. They may not know any better because that is how their family and friends ate and it was normal to them. That is why they are overweight to start with. You would think it is simply matter of common sense but for a lot of people it isnt. Some people can work out things and eat whatever they want in moderation. I know some people who hate all vegetables and only like calorie dense foods. Trying to simply limit portions may work for them or it may not. It is true that everyone is different. Some people also have trouble with portion control, especially when it comes to highly palatable rich foods. I'm simply pointing out a reality that exists for some people. Some people also give up because they continue to try to eat the same rich foods they enjoy but find that in order to stick to their calorie budget, they will be hungry at the end of the day. It would be worthwhile for people who are hungry to learn how to eat foods that are saturating even if they are not what they really want.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
Or they will see how many calories it takes out of their budget and think "wow - better not eat all of that if I want dinner!"
I highly doubt anyone thinks they can eat all they want of pizza and lose weight. The OP obviously knows she's eating too much of her favorite foods and wanted help with staying within her calories. I'm not sure when eating "whatever they want" became "eating unlimited quantities".15 -
@nooshi713
What do you want us to say? You're right?
You're right. There. Can we move on now?
A lot of people do a lot of things. We can't talk to/for/at everyone all at once. Most of us make a concious effort to be clear in what we say when giving advice. But it's up to others to make an effort to hear/understand what is being said, not simply what they want to hear.
If someone wants ot hear "eat whatever you want AND as much as you want" there's not much we can do about that... they are going to hear it regardless.
At the end of the day... "eat whatever you want" =/= "eat as much as you want".23 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
Or they will see how many calories it takes out of their budget and think "wow - better not eat all of that if I want dinner!"
I highly doubt anyone thinks they can eat all they want of pizza and lose weight. The OP obviously knows she's eating too much of her favorite foods and wanted help with staying within her calories. I'm not sure when eating "whatever they want" became "eating unlimited quantities".
OP wrote: "my calorie daily to loose weight is 1,200 so can i still eat fries, chocolate , pizza as long as i dont go over 1,200" so we know she knows the calorie goal is the key factor here.15 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. People new to counting calories dont know how far 1200 or 1500 calories go. They may try eating the same junk foods, realize their calories have quickly run out, end up hungry, and give up. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.22 -
A lot of people grew up with too large of portions or too much of the wrong foods. They may not know any better because that is how their family and friends ate and it was normal to them. That is why they are overweight to start with. You would think it is simply matter of common sense but for a lot of people it isnt. Some people can work out things and eat whatever they want in moderation. I know some people who hate all vegetables and only like calorie dense foods. Trying to simply limit portions may work for them or it may not. It is true that everyone is different. Some people also have trouble with portion control, especially when it comes to highly palatable rich foods. I'm simply pointing out a reality that exists for some people.
It doesn't matter if it works out right now. The beauty of MFP and logging is learning from your mistakes. Unless the OP is in an immediate health crisis what does it matter if it takes time for her to learn portion control? Also, I don't see the point in making the OP someone who needs to be spoon fed every piece of information for her to be successful. She was smart enough to do research, form a valid conclusion, and then ask for confirmation of her findings.
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
Or they will see how many calories it takes out of their budget and think "wow - better not eat all of that if I want dinner!"
I highly doubt anyone thinks they can eat all they want of pizza and lose weight. The OP obviously knows she's eating too much of her favorite foods and wanted help with staying within her calories. I'm not sure when eating "whatever they want" became "eating unlimited quantities".
OP wrote: "my calorie daily to loose weight is 1,200 so can i still eat fries, chocolate , pizza as long as i dont go over 1,200" so we know she knows the calorie goal is the key factor here.
So I was close to right on what the OP said.
Should have gone back and looked. 3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.
Given that OP knows about calories, I'm not sure these concerns are relevant here. She specifically acknowledges her calorie goal in her initial post.
Everyone (who is here to manage their weight) lives in the reality of not being able to eat as much as they want of whatever they want. Nobody is arguing that people can eat as much of they want of whatever they want. You're making a total strawman argument here. That you don't want 255 calories of pizza doesn't mean that you can't have pizza, it means that you're choosing not to have it. Your reality, however, is the same as everyone's.
7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Well, the OP mentioned 1200 calories, so it's "whatever she wants within 1200 calories". Many, if not most of us, mentioned that she may not find the foods she listed filling enough, or able to meet her nutritional needs.
I've slowly tapered down my pizza eating so that I can be satisfied with 460 calories worth plus a big salad. But it was a process. And I eat a lot more than 1200 calories per day gross.
And I'm still not there with pints of Ben & Jerry's ice cream. What my brain wants is 1200 calories worth. But if I were able to moderate it, it would fit.
However, that is a different issue. "Can ice cream fit in a balanced diet" is a different question than "Can Kshama successfully moderate pints of Ben & Jerry's?"14 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.21 -
catzzm9768 wrote: »Hello!:), im starting my weight loss journey, just need help and guidance really, soo ive been googling soo much lately on what i can eat, and i came across you can eat whatever you like but dont go over your daily calorie, my calorie daily to loose weight is 1,200 so can i still eat fries, chocolate , pizza as long as i dont go over 1,200? Will i still loose weight? im not very active i will walk sometimes, plus i dont like healthy foods such as salads i hate them so id find it very hard.
I will track my food on here before eating them.
Thank you!
This is kind of my philosophy to dieting:- Eat foods that you like in portion sizes that fit your goals.
- Get enough of fats & protein for health and satiety.
- Get plenty of fruits & veggies for the micronutrients.
- Fill in the rest of your calories with carbs, sweets, and treats as you see fit.
I happen to love salads, but I don't eat very many of them since produce tends to go bad in my fridge faster than I'd like. I ate ice cream most nights while I was losing and still lost weight. I cut out Oatmeal Creme Pies because I couldn't eat just one and didn't find them worth the calories in larger quantities. The trick is to play around and see what kind of foods you find satisfying at the portion sizes you'd need to eat to hit your goals and which ones you don't. That's going to be highly individual for everyone, though, so don't let anyone tell you it that you have to diet their way. If you want pizza, see if you can fit it into your goals. If you can, great! If you can't or you find there are other things you prefer instead, great! This is a lifelong journey for all of us and we need to learn our own way.
What works to get you into a calorie deficit is the important part. Whether it's a little chocolate every day or a whole candy bar once a week or substituting for lower calorie but chocolate-flavored things. Whatever works. Period. End thread. I don't even know why this is an argument.12 -
It seems to me you're putting too much emphasis on "whatever" and not enough on "want". If I just ate whatever, of course I'd be fat again. I don't want that. So I just eat enough to maintain a healthy weight. Before I found MFP, I believed I had to eat in a certain way to lose/maintain. It would work well for a while, apparently, until it absolutely didn't. So I overate indiscriminately, because I had missed so many foods, but most of all, because I need to feel that I'm making my own food choices. Having adhered to unecessary restictions for too long, I careened over to the other side of the road. I got fat again, no surprise there. I overate because I felt entitled, until I just stopped caring.janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
Now that I know it is ALL ABOUT CALORIES, I don't divide foods into good and bad, and I don't feel like a loser when I eat something I "shouldn't have". Getting that burden off my shoulders, actually makes me able to pay attention to how different foods and meals make me feel, and wanting to eat well, for health, wellbeing and longevity, and so I have ended up eating a nutrtionally sound and balanced diet, almost according to most national recommendations. This has brought forth and is facilitated by a surprising change: I love so many foods now, that I felt tasted either too bland or too strong, or both, I love cooking because I can make meals I want to eat, I don't have to overeat to try to get that "enough" feeling. I have treats, but only occasionally, and in reasonable amounts, that I'm finally able to stop at, because I know I'm not doing anything wrong, so there's no "evidence" to get rid of, and no "last supper" scenario. I know I can have more, I just have to wait, and everything tastes better when I'm not eating it all the time.12 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
And she can learn what moderation looks like for her on her own time and in her own way without being shamed or policed by these message boards.24 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.
To the bolded, they will learn just like you did no doubt, by logging food and learning from their mistakes.
OP asked if she can eat whatever she wants as long as she sticks to her calories. She has literally told us she understands there is a limit.
You can repeat it as much as you want, but "You can eat whatever you want as long as you hit your calorie goal" does NOT in any way equal "You can eat whatever you want in whatever quantity you want". If someone decides to hear something we aren't actually saying, then they will no doubt figure it out the first time they log a whole thick crust pizza or multiple chocolate bars.18 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. People new to counting calories dont know how far 1200 or 1500 caloroes go. They may try eating the same junk foods, realize their calories have quickly run out, end up hungry, and give up. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.
To be clear. "Whatever" does not suggest quantity. It suggests choice in type. If someone attaches quantity to a choice that is not implied that is on them, not the statement.
Words are important.15 -
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
That is your opinion. I see no reason to believe the OP is unable to understand context. You are blowing this way out of proportion as if we have condemned her to a lifetime of being overweight.
13 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
I would say that eating fries, chocolate, and pizza within quantities that meet one's calorie goal is moderation.
OP could eat these foods often within her calorie goal if she wanted to. Even a calorie goal of 1,200 would allow for, say, a fun-sized candy bar, a piece of pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of french fries daily with 635 calories to spare. And we have no reason to believe that OP is even wanting to eat all these foods within a single day, but we know that she could and still lose weight.
Maybe those serving sizes wouldn't be satisfying to you. That's good information for you when planning your meals, it's irrelevant to OP.
Maybe you would struggle with hunger on a plan that sometimes included those foods. Again, great information for you, not so important for anyone else.
The important thing: if 1,200 calories is a deficit for someone, then eating 635 calories a day plus a fun-sized Snickers, a piece of Papa John's thin crust pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of McDonald's fries would result in weight loss. That's the question OP asked. Are you saying we should say "No" in response to that question?
If you could figure out that pizza doesn't work for you in the context of a deficit, why can't we assume that OP will also figure it out if it is true for her?
9 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
It seems to me you're putting too much emphasis on "whatever" and not enough on "want". If I just ate whatever, of course I'd be fat again. I don't want that. So I just eat enough to maintain a healthy weight. Before I found MFP, I believed I had to eat in a certain way to lose/maintain. It would work well for a while, apparently, until it absolutely didn't. So I overate indiscriminately, because I had missed so many foods, but most of all, because I need to feel that I'm making my own food choices. Having adhered to unecessary restictions for too long, I careened over to the other side of the road. I got fat again, no surprise there. I overate because I felt entitled, until I just stopped caring.janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
Now that I know it is ALL ABOUT CALORIES, I don't divide foods into good and bad, and I don't feel like a loser when I eat something I "shouldn't have". Getting that burden off my shoulders, actually makes me able to pay attention to how different foods and meals make me feel, and wanting to eat well, for health, wellbeing and longevity, and so I have ended up eating a nutrtionally sound and balanced diet, almost according to most national recommendations. This has brought forth and is facilitated by a surprising change: I love so many foods now, that I felt tasted either too bland or too strong, or both, I love cooking because I can make meals I want to eat, I don't have to overeat to try to get that "enough" feeling. I have treats, but only occasionally, and in reasonable amounts, that I'm finally able to stop at, because I know I'm not doing anything wrong, so there's no "evidence" to get rid of, and no "last supper" scenario. I know I can have more, I just have to wait, and everything tastes better when I'm not eating it all the time.
I'm glad you have found what works for you. People go about losing weight in different ways. For some people, especially those with lower calorie budgets, what they "want" doesn't fit in their budget and allow for satiety. I'm not shaming anyone for their choices.14 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
As I say in every thread that gets derailed by someone fairly new to the boards who decides to criticize the advice we give - why don't you hang around for a little while and see the most common questions and problems newbies post about before telling us what the real issue is?
Because we see a TON of threads from newbies who are about to give up because they think they can't eat any "bad" foods or it will ruin their weight loss. And they miss those foods. Or they go on a bender because they slipped and had a slice of birthday cake at a party so they end up eating everything in sight for a week. Or they have given up hope of ever losing weight because they slip up and have junk food sometimes.
I have NEVER seen a post from someone who was told they can eat whatever they want but can't figure out what to do because a whole pizza, a 2 liter of soda and a bag of cookies doesn't fit in their calories. Never. You've derailed this thread for an issue I have literally never seen here in 4 years.27 -
At the end of the day... "eat whatever you want" =/= "eat as much as you want".
Just to amplify:
"eat whatever you want" = / = "eat as much as you want as often as your overweight self feels like it"
The purpose of the log is to keep things in perspective and to help you make better choices!
People log their food, preferably before they eat it, and make changes15 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
I would say that eating fries, chocolate, and pizza within quantities that meet one's calorie goal is moderation.
OP could eat these foods often within her calorie goal if she wanted to. Even a calorie goal of 1,200 would allow for, say, a fun-sized candy bar, a piece of pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of french fries daily with 635 calories to spare. And we have no reason to believe that OP is even wanting to eat all these foods within a single day, but we know that she could and still lose weight.
Maybe those serving sizes wouldn't be satisfying to you. That's good information for you when planning your meals, it's irrelevant to OP.
Maybe you would struggle with hunger on a plan that sometimes included those foods. Again, great information for you, not so important for anyone else.
The important thing: if 1,200 calories is a deficit for someone, then eating 635 calories a day plus a fun-sized Snickers, a piece of Papa John's thin crust pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of McDonald's fries would result in weight loss. That's the question OP asked. Are you saying we should say "No" in response to that question?
If you could figure out that pizza doesn't work for you in the context of a deficit, why can't we assume that OP will also figure it out if it is true for her?
She may figure out what works for her. I hope she does. For a lot of people who are new to dieting, sticking with all of their same calorie rich foods and/or their usual portion sizes probably will end in failure though. Most people want to be full and not super hungry at the end of the day. If someone likes no healthy or lower calorie foods, then they will probably have a hard time sticking to their calorie budget eating only rich foods. That's the point I'm trying to make.6 -
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
That is your opinion. I see no reason to believe the OP is unable to understand context. You are blowing this way out of proportion as if we have condemned her to a lifetime of being overweight.
I never said anyone here has condemned her. You are putting words in my mouth. I was simply suggesting that this commonly used phrase of eat whatever you want is misleading and more context would be helpful, especially to people that may be new to dieting. Someone may have input their numbers into MFP and have a number in mind, but may not know how far that number goes in terms of real food. Yeah, we can just let them figure it out. I'm willing to bet that at least some people will try to stick to their same habits and fail to stick to their calorie budget and leave frustrated. Most people have to make some changes in either the types of food they eat, the frequency of those foods, or the portions of those foods. I would rather give realistic information that is actually helpful than sugar coat the real process.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
I would say that eating fries, chocolate, and pizza within quantities that meet one's calorie goal is moderation.
OP could eat these foods often within her calorie goal if she wanted to. Even a calorie goal of 1,200 would allow for, say, a fun-sized candy bar, a piece of pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of french fries daily with 635 calories to spare. And we have no reason to believe that OP is even wanting to eat all these foods within a single day, but we know that she could and still lose weight.
Maybe those serving sizes wouldn't be satisfying to you. That's good information for you when planning your meals, it's irrelevant to OP.
Maybe you would struggle with hunger on a plan that sometimes included those foods. Again, great information for you, not so important for anyone else.
The important thing: if 1,200 calories is a deficit for someone, then eating 635 calories a day plus a fun-sized Snickers, a piece of Papa John's thin crust pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of McDonald's fries would result in weight loss. That's the question OP asked. Are you saying we should say "No" in response to that question?
If you could figure out that pizza doesn't work for you in the context of a deficit, why can't we assume that OP will also figure it out if it is true for her?
She may figure out what works for her. I hope she does. For a lot of people who are new to dieting, sticking with all of their same calorie rich foods and/or their usual portion sizes probably will end in failure though. Most people want to be full and not super hungry at the end of the day. If someone likes no healthy or lower calorie foods, then they will probably have a hard time sticking to their calorie budget eating only rich foods. That's the point I'm trying to make.
You're free to recommend elimination diets to the OP or tell her that she needs to stop eating pizza because you don't find 255 calories of it satisfying. You may give whatever advice you want.
I'm going to stick with giving the advice that I know worked for me and I've seen work for other people here: Weight loss is created by a calorie deficit and it's okay to experiment to find what works for you to create that deficit, including eating foods that you enjoy.18 -
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
That is your opinion. I see no reason to believe the OP is unable to understand context. You are blowing this way out of proportion as if we have condemned her to a lifetime of being overweight.
I never said anyone here has condemned her. You are putting words in my mouth. I was simply suggesting that this commonly used phrase of eat whatever you want is misleading and more context would be helpful, especially to people that may be new to dieting. Someone may have input their numbers into MFP and have a number in mind, but may not know how far that number goes in terms of real food. Yeah, we can just let them figure it out. I'm willing to bet that at least some people will try to stick to their same habits and fail to stick to their calorie budget and leave frustrated. Most people have to make some changes in either the types of food they eat, the frequency of those foods, or the portions of those foods. I would rather give realistic information that is actually helpful than sugar coat the real process.
This is the very first reply to the OP (and the sentiment was repeated in almost every other reply before you got started), so I'm not sure why you think this is an issue:You can lose weight eating whatever you want as long as you stay in your calorie goal. You may run into hunger issues so you need to be prepared to experiment and, not to worry, you won't be forced to eat salads.19 -
But we are saying, repeatedly, that "usual portion sizes" has to go.janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
I would say that eating fries, chocolate, and pizza within quantities that meet one's calorie goal is moderation.
OP could eat these foods often within her calorie goal if she wanted to. Even a calorie goal of 1,200 would allow for, say, a fun-sized candy bar, a piece of pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of french fries daily with 635 calories to spare. And we have no reason to believe that OP is even wanting to eat all these foods within a single day, but we know that she could and still lose weight.
Maybe those serving sizes wouldn't be satisfying to you. That's good information for you when planning your meals, it's irrelevant to OP.
Maybe you would struggle with hunger on a plan that sometimes included those foods. Again, great information for you, not so important for anyone else.
The important thing: if 1,200 calories is a deficit for someone, then eating 635 calories a day plus a fun-sized Snickers, a piece of Papa John's thin crust pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of McDonald's fries would result in weight loss. That's the question OP asked. Are you saying we should say "No" in response to that question?
If you could figure out that pizza doesn't work for you in the context of a deficit, why can't we assume that OP will also figure it out if it is true for her?
She may figure out what works for her. I hope she does. For a lot of people who are new to dieting, sticking with all of their same calorie rich foods and/or their usual portion sizes probably will end in failure though. Most people want to be full and not super hungry at the end of the day. If someone likes no healthy or lower calorie foods, then they will probably have a hard time sticking to their calorie budget eating only rich foods. That's the point I'm trying to make.
People who like no healthy food - do they really exist? Or are they just strawmen?
Is your point that a lot of people are designed to fail at weightloss?16 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
I would say that eating fries, chocolate, and pizza within quantities that meet one's calorie goal is moderation.
OP could eat these foods often within her calorie goal if she wanted to. Even a calorie goal of 1,200 would allow for, say, a fun-sized candy bar, a piece of pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of french fries daily with 635 calories to spare. And we have no reason to believe that OP is even wanting to eat all these foods within a single day, but we know that she could and still lose weight.
Maybe those serving sizes wouldn't be satisfying to you. That's good information for you when planning your meals, it's irrelevant to OP.
Maybe you would struggle with hunger on a plan that sometimes included those foods. Again, great information for you, not so important for anyone else.
The important thing: if 1,200 calories is a deficit for someone, then eating 635 calories a day plus a fun-sized Snickers, a piece of Papa John's thin crust pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of McDonald's fries would result in weight loss. That's the question OP asked. Are you saying we should say "No" in response to that question?
If you could figure out that pizza doesn't work for you in the context of a deficit, why can't we assume that OP will also figure it out if it is true for her?
She may figure out what works for her. I hope she does. For a lot of people who are new to dieting, sticking with all of their same calorie rich foods and/or their usual portion sizes probably will end in failure though. Most people want to be full and not super hungry at the end of the day. If someone likes no healthy or lower calorie foods, then they will probably have a hard time sticking to their calorie budget eating only rich foods. That's the point I'm trying to make.
I would argue that if someone tries to eat exactly what they used to eat, remains hungry for weeks on end, and then quits instead of trying to adjust, then they may not have been ready to lose weight in the first place. That may just be my own experience clouding my judgement, though.
We have an OP here, already reaching out and trying to form some of those supportive bonds that would help get her through some of those early discomfort days many of us had, and instead of embracing her you are telling her that her way absolutely won't work. I think context is great. I think more information is usually good but not always. I just find browbeating a new dieter to be off-putting.19 -
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
That is your opinion. I see no reason to believe the OP is unable to understand context. You are blowing this way out of proportion as if we have condemned her to a lifetime of being overweight.
I never said anyone here has condemned her. You are putting words in my mouth. I was simply suggesting that this commonly used phrase of eat whatever you want is misleading and more context would be helpful, especially to people that may be new to dieting. Someone may have input their numbers into MFP and have a number in mind, but may not know how far that number goes in terms of real food. Yeah, we can just let them figure it out. I'm willing to bet that at least some people will try to stick to their same habits and fail to stick to their calorie budget and leave frustrated. Most people have to make some changes in either the types of food they eat, the frequency of those foods, or the portions of those foods. I would rather give realistic information that is actually helpful than sugar coat the real process.
OP already talked about a 1,200 calorie goal. Why are you assuming she doesn't know that some element of portion control will be involved? She clearly gets it.
I don't know who you're advocating for here, but it isn't OP. She gets it.16 -
catzzm9768 wrote: »Hello!:), im starting my weight loss journey, just need help and guidance really, soo ive been googling soo much lately on what i can eat, and i came across you can eat whatever you like but dont go over your daily calorie, my calorie daily to loose weight is 1,200 so can i still eat fries, chocolate , pizza as long as i dont go over 1,200? Will i still loose weight? im not very active i will walk sometimes, plus i dont like healthy foods such as salads i hate them so id find it very hard.
I will track my food on here before eating them.
Thank you!
I want to add a couple of thoughts that got lost in this argument.
First, I think you've set a pretty reasonable starting place in your OP. Walking sometimes and sticking to your calorie goal sounds great.
Second, depending on your stats, you may find 1200 is even a little low. You might be able to eat a little more and still lose weight. If you find that 1200 is too restricting, you might try reducing your rate of loss (did you set it for 2 pounds a week? most people do) so that you get a little more to work with.
Third, "healthy foods" come in a very wide variety. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you have to eat salad and chicken breast all day to be healthy. There are lots and lots of healthy foods and you're sure to eat some of them. Even foods like potatoes have plenty of those good micronutrients your body needs. So relax and look at the bigger picture.
It sounds like the OP is well on their way.13
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