Myth or not a myth?
Replies
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What you said is true but that is a misleading statement. You CAN in theory lose weight by eating whatever you want but it if whatever you want is only high calorie junk food then you will be unlikely to stick with your calorie budget.
For me, one birthday tiramisu is over my daily budget. So I can eat that, but I can't eat any other food for the rest of the day. And that cake wont fill me up much. I can drink two of those large pina coladas at the bar and also be over my daily calorie budget not allowing for any other food the rest of the day.
So when people say that you can eat whatever you want, they aren't lying necessarily but if you follow that advice and whatever you want is nothing but junk food, you will probably quickly realize that there aren't enough calories in a day to sustain that way of eating and keep you full/satisfied. Many people end up eating healthier and lower calorie foods because those foods keep them more full throughout the day. I do like healthy food in addition to unhealthy food. I'm still hungry but eating healthier tends to be more filling for me and stay within my calorie budget.
I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants. In case I was wrong I suggested she come back soon if she was having trouble with hunger for more assistance.
There is no harm in starting from what she knows and fixing it as needed. It is sensible and it beats trying to figure out what "healthy" and "unhealthy" means.
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I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants. In case I was wrong I suggested she come back soon if she was having trouble with hunger for more assistance.
There is no harm in starting from what she knows and fixing it as needed. It is sensible and it beats trying to figure out what "healthy" and "unhealthy" means.
That may be true. I dont know exactly what her diet includes. I do know many people who only eat unhealthy and calorie dense foods. That is probably how they got fat in the first place. So for some people who only like those types of foods, and still want to be full, eating "whatever you want" probably won't work.4 -
I used to get around this by eating a huge bowl of microwaved broccoli smothered in kimchi along with a very small portion of whatever "junk" I was craving. I got to taste the evil bad stuff but ended up quite full.
... probably won't work if you hate broccoli and kimchi though.
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I suspect some newbies may see those statements "eat whatever you want", try a few days of eating whatever, inevitably NOT be able to stick to their calorie budget, give up when they don't lose weight quickly, and feel frustrated. I feel like those types of statements should come with an explanation about how those calorie dense foods probably won't be very filling.
So for some people, they can try reducing portions of their normal foods, but may not be able to be full that way. They will probably end up having to change the types of food that they eat to maintain the calorie budget. Let's be real, it is hard for a lot of people to eat certain foods in moderation. That's probably why they are overweight. You CAN be overweight eating too much healthy food ( I am one of them) but it is much easier to overeat junk food.4 -
jseams1234 wrote: »I used to get around this by eating a huge bowl of microwaved broccoli smothered in kimchi along with a very small portion of whatever "junk" I was craving. I got to taste the evil bad stuff but ended up quite full.
... probably won't work if you hate broccoli and kimchi though.
It's a good strategy -- including what you're craving into your meal plans, but don't rely on it to *fill yourself up*. I'd have things like pizza and fries when I was losing weight, but I wouldn't make them the center of my meals. I'd have *some*.
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I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Separating the items from "junk" in your post seems less than ideal to me.
Eating what she WANTS is probably a big part of what got her here in the first place.
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
She needs to learn that food is fuel; not an emotional crutch or treat or anything like that.
Choosing food because it "tastes good" instead of being a good choice needs to stop. For many people.
Just my thoughts.27 -
That may be true. I dont know exactly what her diet includes. I do know many people who only eat unhealthy and calorie dense foods. That is probably how they got fat in the first place. So for some people who only like those types of foods, and still want to be full, eating "whatever you want" probably won't work.
No one knows what her entire normal diet consists of except her. IMO we don't really need to worry about it right now either. I think the best place to start is at the beginning so she can learn what works for her and not try to figure out what ambiguous terms like "healthy" mean which is something she is already struggling with.8 -
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Moderation comes in many forms.7 -
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).14 -
Yes, it does. But until we all agree on a definition of "moderation" then the cycle will continue.Moderation comes in many forms.
So I gave mine as a starting point.
She will probably go over her calorie allotment until that is fixed; she will probably not be in a deficit.
She has to pick more satiating foods that are lower in calories.
We all know this, just many others are trying to baby-talk her into it.9 -
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Separating the items from "junk" in your post seems less than ideal to me.
Eating what she WANTS is probably a big part of what got her here in the first place.
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
She needs to learn that food is fuel; not an emotional crutch or treat or anything like that.
Choosing food because it "tastes good" instead of being a good choice needs to stop. For many people.
Just my thoughts.
I appreciate the fact that you state that it is from your perspective and not absolute fact.
I would say though we don't know where "here" is for her. She may need to lose a lot or a few vanity pounds. I don't see a need to assume the worst about her food choices simply because she listed 3 examples of things she wants to continue eating.4 -
Yes, it does. But until we all agree on a definition of "moderation" then the cycle will continue.
So I gave mine as a starting point.
I think that's the point though - there are lots of ways to be successful here. All OP (or any of us) have to do to manage our weight is manage our intake. HOW we do that is entirely up to us.
So in true MFP fashion, we're bogging down this thread with terms and interpretations and methods and practices that are 90% individual preference.
Until OP comes back to clarify or ask further questions, I say we move on. There are plenty of other threads we can trash.14 -
So in true MFP fashion, we're bogging down this thread with terms and interpretations and methods and practices that are 90% individual preference.
Until OP comes back to clarify or ask further questions, I say we move on. There are plenty of other threads we can trash.
True story. 5 -
catzzm9768 wrote: »Hello!:), im starting my weight loss journey, just need help and guidance really, soo ive been googling soo much lately on what i can eat, and i came across you can eat whatever you like but dont go over your daily calorie, my calorie daily to loose weight is 1,200 so can i still eat fries, chocolate , pizza as long as i dont go over 1,200? Will i still loose weight? im not very active i will walk sometimes, plus i dont like healthy foods such as salads i hate them so id find it very hard.
I will track my food on here before eating them.
Thank you!
ps - what exactly do you hate about salads? There are many different types of greens. I don't care for iceberg, but like most other lettuces, and this time of year am enjoying putting baby Swiss chard and kale from my garden in my salads (not to be confused with the mature leaves, which I prefer steamed or in smoothies). I can't stand raw tomatoes, and will wash my cutting board if it gets contaminated with raw tomato. But I like peppers (red bell over green), carrots (shaved or shredded, not chunks), cucumber, to list just ordinary salad veggies. And there are countless ways to have dressing.
Some people have a reaction to raw fruits and veggies, but can eat them cooked. Tons of ways to cook veggies.3 -
People are using it to mean they don't "agree" with a post. Have been for months now.
They don't care what it is supposed to be used for. I was told so directly in a post.
Woo had two opposite meanings when it was launched. Now it means "that you think an idea or approach is too good to be true". However, since many think it means "Woo Hoo!" I just ignore it.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10570889/new-community-reaction-woo#latest
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janejellyroll wrote: »
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.6 -
@kshama2001
"Woo" or "woo-woo" in it's formal usage was coined by James Randi in the late 70's / early 80's and always meant "BS" that some people wanted to believe.. It was used in relation to pseudo-scientific claims.
It meant there was no actual scientific evidence.
Spirit guides = woo, spoon-bending = woo, faith healing = woo. It was short-hand.
"Too good to be true" is a fair interpretation of that and I'm OK with it, but most people these days are clicking it to mean they disagree with something, like a down-vote.
I don't *think* I've seen it used "positively" like "Woo-Hoo!!" in a long while.
If it was, then I couldn't tell.
I know in one thread several posters plainly stated they would use it to mean what they want.
They all proceeded to "woo" my post explaining the MFP usage of "woo" and it's origins.
Oh well.5 -
Before I have read some explanations of what " woo" means on here, I wouldnt have known it was a negative thing. My first thought was woo is good like an exclamation of excitement.3
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Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
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janejellyroll wrote: »
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..21 -
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
That’s because there are no limits
Chocolate cake
Ice cream
Pizza
All permitted in appropriate portion sizes.
It’s the learning process so that you develop sustainable habits for life. And don’t yo yo cycle forever11 -
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.16 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
Yes, I can eat 5 meals and still have room for that 255 calorie slice of pizza - and that's when I'm on a 1200 calorie goal. And those 5 meals are a LOT of food. I just pick really low calorie/high volume foods for those meals. It's all about playing around with what fills you up, what substitutes you are willing to make. And no, no one can eat as much of anything as they want and still lose weight.9 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
That’s because there are no limits
Chocolate cake
Ice cream
Pizza
All permitted in appropriate portion sizes.
It’s the learning process so that you develop sustainable habits for life. And don’t yo yo cycle forever
The average person is not going to eat one slice of thin crust pizza. I would rather not eat pizza at all. For me, 2 slices of regular crust is not ideal but even that won't fit my daily calorie budget. So eating "whatever I want" doesnt work. I will not be full and stick to my calorie budget eating that way. It might work for some with higher calorie budgets but not for a lot of people. For a lot of people trying to stick to their calorie budget and be full, it requires giving up a lot of favorite foods on a daily basis and only eating them rarely or eating such a small portion of them where it is not even satisfying.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.16 -
The average person is not going to eat one slice of thin crust pizza. I would rather not eat pizza at all. For me, 2 slices of regular crust is not ideal but even that won't fit my daily calorie budget. So eating "whatever I want" doesnt work. I will not be full and stick to my calorie budget eating that way. It might work for some with higher calorie budgets but not for a lot of people. For a lot of people trying to stick to their calorie budget and be full, it requires giving up a lot of favorite foods on a daily basis and only eating them rarely or eating such a small portion of them where it is not even satisfying.
In a society where most people are overweight, I'm not sure what the "average" person's eating habits have to do with it. The average person isn't eating like you (probably), I know the average person isn't eating like me.
The secret to weight management is finding something that is sustainable and enjoyable for us as individuals, we don't have to create a plan that will work for the average person.
If OP wants pizza frequently, what's the problem with that? If the calories are too hard for her to work out, she'll discover that and work out a frequency that is right for her. I honestly don't see the point of telling someone that a calorie deficit is required for weight loss but she'd better not eat pizza either because some other people don't think it is worth the calories.
That you would rather not eat pizza at all than have just one piece is 100% relevant for you and 100% irrelevant to others. I'd much rather have one piece of pizza than not have pizza. Thinking that I had to make the choice between a life with pizza and a life without was part of what kept me yo-yoing for so long.20 -
catzzm9768 wrote: »Hello!:), im starting my weight loss journey, just need help and guidance really, soo ive been googling soo much lately on what i can eat, and i came across you can eat whatever you like but dont go over your daily calorie, my calorie daily to loose weight is 1,200 so can i still eat fries, chocolate , pizza as long as i dont go over 1,200? Will i still loose weight? im not very active i will walk sometimes, plus i dont like healthy foods such as salads i hate them so id find it very hard.
I will track my food on here before eating them.
Thank you!
Yes, OP you can eat whatever you want, as long as the portion you need to stick to in order to fit your calorie goal satisfies you. As others have said, you may have to make some hard choices if some of those foods don't work in appropriate portions. If you run into problems and need help figuring out how to make those decisions, please feel free to come back and ask more questions!
I would also suggest you give a little thought to your weekly weight loss goal. 1.5 or 2 lbs per week is only appropriate to obese people with a lot to lose. It's possible you got such a low goal because you are looking for an aggressive rate of loss.
As for the derail this thread has started down, I see no reason to assume someone who has found MFP and made a wise decision to play with the numbers and log food and exercise can't figure out through trial and error which foods/portion sizes will work for them and which won't. Suggesting telling someone they can eat whatever they want means they will assume they can eat unlimited amounts is really insulting to people. Once you start accurately logging, it's kind of impossible to miss if your preferred size of your favorite food takes up all your calories
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A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Becasue they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
If common sense doesnt enter the equation you end up at is the 0 point ww foods that you can eat unlimited amounts of and why cant i lose weight threads.
Its not being misled. Its a lack of critical thinking.14 -
janejellyroll wrote: »One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
Right. Everything always falls under the umbrella of staying within the calorie deficit.
I think a sustainable diet starts with the easiest approach even if it takes some time, education, and compromise to be successful. How many threads are created each week with demotivated OPs because they are trying live off of "diet" food? Some of them are already so far gone they are only here to complain before quitting. If the OP needs more help at least she has not been trying to force down salad for a week or two.
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