Myth or not a myth?
Replies
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estherdragonbat wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
I would say that eating fries, chocolate, and pizza within quantities that meet one's calorie goal is moderation.
OP could eat these foods often within her calorie goal if she wanted to. Even a calorie goal of 1,200 would allow for, say, a fun-sized candy bar, a piece of pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of french fries daily with 635 calories to spare. And we have no reason to believe that OP is even wanting to eat all these foods within a single day, but we know that she could and still lose weight.
Maybe those serving sizes wouldn't be satisfying to you. That's good information for you when planning your meals, it's irrelevant to OP.
Maybe you would struggle with hunger on a plan that sometimes included those foods. Again, great information for you, not so important for anyone else.
The important thing: if 1,200 calories is a deficit for someone, then eating 635 calories a day plus a fun-sized Snickers, a piece of Papa John's thin crust pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of McDonald's fries would result in weight loss. That's the question OP asked. Are you saying we should say "No" in response to that question?
If you could figure out that pizza doesn't work for you in the context of a deficit, why can't we assume that OP will also figure it out if it is true for her?
She may figure out what works for her. I hope she does. For a lot of people who are new to dieting, sticking with all of their same calorie rich foods and/or their usual portion sizes probably will end in failure though. Most people want to be full and not super hungry at the end of the day. If someone likes no healthy or lower calorie foods, then they will probably have a hard time sticking to their calorie budget eating only rich foods. That's the point I'm trying to make.
I would argue that if someone tries to eat exactly what they used to eat, remains hungry for weeks on end, and then quits instead of trying to adjust, then they may not have been ready to lose weight in the first place. That may just be my own experience clouding my judgement, though.
We have an OP here, already reaching out and trying to form some of those supportive bonds that would help get her through some of those early discomfort days many of us had, and instead of embracing her you are telling her that her way absolutely won't work. I think context is great. I think more information is usually good but not always. I just find browbeating a new dieter to be off-putting.
im not criticizing her. I was saying how the commonly used phrase of eat whatever you want in a calorie budget is misleading and overly simplistic because it doesn't mention the hard reality of portion control or how hard fitting those foods one really wants into their calorie budget actually is.
But portion control isn't hard. I have LITERALLY sat down with myself and said, "I'm going to be going out to eat. What can I order within my calories? Should I exercise more beforehand? Do I need a lighter lunch/dinner? Does this fit? How badly do I want it?" And making the adjustments is just... normal. Like having X amount of money in your wallet, knowing that's it until payday and deciding whether to blow 90% of it on one purchase and basically live on a shoestring for the next couple of days, or spacing it out more. It's not some messy, painful process fraught with tears and frustration. It's just... what you do.
I have also done those things. For a lot of people portion control is hard though. If weight loss was easy, everyone would be successful at it.1 -
catzzm9768 wrote: »Hello!:), im starting my weight loss journey, just need help and guidance really, soo ive been googling soo much lately on what i can eat, and i came across you can eat whatever you like but dont go over your daily calorie, my calorie daily to loose weight is 1,200 so can i still eat fries, chocolate , pizza as long as i dont go over 1,200? Will i still loose weight? im not very active i will walk sometimes, plus i dont like healthy foods such as salads i hate them so id find it very hard.
I will track my food on here before eating them.
Thank you!
yes.7 -
Come on. We have given nothing but context.I'm not sure. Some of them have lost a lot of weight. I work in a hospital so I asked some of the nurses there that have lost a good amount of weight. I just asked them what they thought of that comment. The people I know that have lost significant weight are not eating junk food all the time. I see their lunches at work, primarily healthy foods and portion sizes.
Have you read the second response in this thread?
Which one of your concerns does this response, quoted here for your convenience, NOT address?As long as 1200 cals puts you in a calorie deficit, then yes you'll lose weight.
However, it can be hard to sustain the type of diet you mentioned (fries, chocolate, pizza) because the quantity of food will end up being pretty small/low. Also, consider overall health/nutrition...
That comment is fine but a lot of times people dont give context like that
You choose to interpret "whatever I want" as "unlimited amounts of anything".kommodevaran wrote: »
Unlimited, or too large, amounts of something, is, again, not what "whatever" means.kommodevaran wrote: »
You watch, but you don't see? You read, but you don't understand what you read?janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. People new to counting calories dont know how far 1200 or 1500 calories go. They may try eating the same junk foods, realize their calories have quickly run out, end up hungry, and give up. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.
There’s a big difference between “whatever you want” and “however MUCH you want”. Try thinking of it that way?
I know there is a difference but a lot of people reading these boards may not. As I mentioned earlier, I asked a few people IRL what they thought of that comment..... They all pretty much said whatever you want is unlimited of what they want.
Do these real life people log their food?
I'm not sure. Some of them have lost a lot of weight. I work in a hospital so I asked some of the nurses there that have lost a good amount of weight. I just asked them what they thought of that comment. The people I know that have lost significant weight are not eating junk food all the time. I see their lunches at work, primarily healthy foods and portion sizes.
I think it was "condemning the OP to failure", not general condemnation, and suggesting that you can suggest an elimination diet if you want, not that you did.So far it is. The hardest part for me is sticking to my calorie budget without being hungry. That has forced me to eliminate my favorite foods for the most part because they dont fit in my calorie budget.
Ok. Why don't you open your diary and start a new thread and see if there is some advice this forum can give you for helping you with your hunger so you can have more of your favorite foods?
I am being 100 percent serious. There is a chance some of the really smart and experienced people here can give you some ideas with which to experiment.
I thought about it but it seems a lot of people in this message board are very judgemental. I mean in this message board people have accused me of condemning the OP and suggesting an elimination diet which I never did.
My whole point is that an occasional treat or small portion of it is doable, but that is not whatever you want.
You could up your calories a bit. You could redefine hungry. You could stop the feeling of entitlement. Maybe you're envoius of some phantom, but, reality check: No average height and normal weight female can eat 600 calories of ice cream often and still maintain a normal weight and get in good nutrition, unless she is very active.I pretty much have a good knowledge base already. I know what I have to do. I am doing it. I just have to live with either being hungry and eating my favorite foods or being more full and avoiding my favorites. I eat treats occasionally. If someone has some magic way of fitting 600 CALORIES OF Haagen Daaz fit into 1400 calorie budget where I can still be full let me know. It is not possible.
That's what "whatever I want" suggests to me and I'm not the only one who interprets that comment that way. I know that I cant eat ice cream every day. I dont eat it every day. That is the whole point i have been making. I dont feel entitled. I know I cant eat whatever I want and still lose weight. My maintenance calories range from 1700-1900 with exercise so upping my calories isnt an option. Losing weight is not easy.
You choose to aim for a 500-700 calorie deficit.
You choose to make weightloss hard.16 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
Come on. We have given nothing but context.I'm not sure. Some of them have lost a lot of weight. I work in a hospital so I asked some of the nurses there that have lost a good amount of weight. I just asked them what they thought of that comment. The people I know that have lost significant weight are not eating junk food all the time. I see their lunches at work, primarily healthy foods and portion sizes.
Have you read the second response in this thread?
Which one of your concerns does this response, quoted here for your convenience, NOT address?As long as 1200 cals puts you in a calorie deficit, then yes you'll lose weight.
However, it can be hard to sustain the type of diet you mentioned (fries, chocolate, pizza) because the quantity of food will end up being pretty small/low. Also, consider overall health/nutrition...
That comment is fine but a lot of times people dont give context like that
You choose to interpret "whatever I want" as "unlimited amounts of anything".kommodevaran wrote: »
Unlimited, or too large, amounts of something, is, again, not what "whatever" means.kommodevaran wrote: »
You watch, but you don't see? You read, but you don't understand what you read?janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. People new to counting calories dont know how far 1200 or 1500 calories go. They may try eating the same junk foods, realize their calories have quickly run out, end up hungry, and give up. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.
There’s a big difference between “whatever you want” and “however MUCH you want”. Try thinking of it that way?
I know there is a difference but a lot of people reading these boards may not. As I mentioned earlier, I asked a few people IRL what they thought of that comment..... They all pretty much said whatever you want is unlimited of what they want.
Do these real life people log their food?
I'm not sure. Some of them have lost a lot of weight. I work in a hospital so I asked some of the nurses there that have lost a good amount of weight. I just asked them what they thought of that comment. The people I know that have lost significant weight are not eating junk food all the time. I see their lunches at work, primarily healthy foods and portion sizes.
I think it was "condemning the OP to failure", not general condemnation, and suggesting that you can suggest an elimination diet if you want, not that you did.So far it is. The hardest part for me is sticking to my calorie budget without being hungry. That has forced me to eliminate my favorite foods for the most part because they dont fit in my calorie budget.
Ok. Why don't you open your diary and start a new thread and see if there is some advice this forum can give you for helping you with your hunger so you can have more of your favorite foods?
I am being 100 percent serious. There is a chance some of the really smart and experienced people here can give you some ideas with which to experiment.
I thought about it but it seems a lot of people in this message board are very judgemental. I mean in this message board people have accused me of condemning the OP and suggesting an elimination diet which I never did.
My whole point is that an occasional treat or small portion of it is doable, but that is not whatever you want.
You could up your calories a bit. You could redefine hungry. You could stop the feeling of entitlement. Maybe you're envoius of some phantom, but, reality check: No average height and normal weight female can eat 600 calories of ice cream often and still maintain a normal weight and get in good nutrition, unless she is very active.I pretty much have a good knowledge base already. I know what I have to do. I am doing it. I just have to live with either being hungry and eating my favorite foods or being more full and avoiding my favorites. I eat treats occasionally. If someone has some magic way of fitting 600 CALORIES OF Haagen Daaz fit into 1400 calorie budget where I can still be full let me know. It is not possible.
That's what "whatever I want" suggests to me and I'm not the only one who interprets that comment that way. I know that I cant eat ice cream every day. I dont eat it every day. That is the whole point i have been making. I dont feel entitled. I know I cant eat whatever I want and still lose weight. My maintenance calories range from 1700-1900 with exercise so upping my calories isnt an option. Losing weight is not easy.
You choose to aim for a 500-700 calorie deficit.
You choose to make weightloss hard.
I have seen many threads where that comment was thrown out there without additional information. If my maintenance is 1650, how is 1400 a 500-700 calorie deficit? That is with almost 10000 steps a day. It is people like you that discourage some from seeking advice here.12 -
I haven't criticized the collective wisdom. I take issue with that one particular comment about eating whatever you want that is commonly used. To the contrary, I have been criticized by several on here for simply being a bit more realistic about things.
You haven't been realistic though and that is the problem. Realistically there are many positive outcomes to this thread and you have continuously focused on the worst case scenario.
No thats not true. I have been realistic. Im not saying to never have pizza or a treat. I have been saying that sometimes staying in a calorie budget requires changing the types of food one eats or the portions or frequency of them. Some people can afford treats only rarely. What is unrealistic about that
But you have been harping on how misleading we have been and that is unrealistic. Is there a chance the utmost extreme might happen and someone might come along and only read that one phrase, take it out of context, and try it? Sure. That same person will figure out the error when the scale keeps going north too. It is unrealistic to only focus on the extreme possibility though.7 -
I have seen many threads where that comment was thrown out there without additional information. If my maintenance is 1650, how is 1400 a 500-700 calorie deficit?
Nope. If you don't post links you can't use other threads as evidence to back your claim. You haven't even done a good job using this one.
14 -
I haven't criticized the collective wisdom. I take issue with that one particular comment about eating whatever you want that is commonly used. To the contrary, I have been criticized by several on here for simply being a bit more realistic about things.
You haven't been realistic though and that is the problem. Realistically there are many positive outcomes to this thread and you have continuously focused on the worst case scenario.
No thats not true. I have been realistic. Im not saying to never have pizza or a treat. I have been saying that sometimes staying in a calorie budget requires changing the types of food one eats or the portions or frequency of them. Some people can afford treats only rarely. What is unrealistic about that
But you have been harping on how misleading we have been and that is unrealistic. Is there a chance the utmost extreme might happen and someone might come along and only read that one phrase, take it out of context, and try it? Sure. That same person will figure out the error when the scale keeps going north too. It is unrealistic to only focus on the extreme possibility though.
Because that comment is misleading. It is. That is not "unrealistic" of me to say that.13 -
I have seen many threads where that comment was thrown out there without additional information. If my maintenance is 1650, how is 1400 a 500-700 calorie deficit?
Nope. If you don't post links you can't use other threads as evidence to back your claim. You haven't even done a good job using this one.
I dont have to post links. There are tons of threads here where that comment has been used. I have seen them. If you dont believe it, thats fine.14 -
I am not doing any worst case scenario. I have said many things that are true. Many people struggle with hunger, with portion control, and fitting foods they like in their calorie budget. All truths.5 -
I dont have to post links. There are tons of threads here where that comment has been used. I have seen them. If you dont believe it, thats fine.
I will just assume then they were all fine and in context like it has happened in this thread then. This is nothing but a witch hunt.
8 -
How is 1650 1700-1900, and how is 1400 1200? And please link some of those threads without additional information. People are shocked to hear that they can make their own decisions, many people don't like to hear it. But ultimately, everybody make their own decisions. Having enough, balanced and neutral information so one can make overall good decisions, is a good thing, in my opinion. People like you is why we can't have nice things.kommodevaran wrote: »
Come on. We have given nothing but context.I'm not sure. Some of them have lost a lot of weight. I work in a hospital so I asked some of the nurses there that have lost a good amount of weight. I just asked them what they thought of that comment. The people I know that have lost significant weight are not eating junk food all the time. I see their lunches at work, primarily healthy foods and portion sizes.
Have you read the second response in this thread?
Which one of your concerns does this response, quoted here for your convenience, NOT address?As long as 1200 cals puts you in a calorie deficit, then yes you'll lose weight.
However, it can be hard to sustain the type of diet you mentioned (fries, chocolate, pizza) because the quantity of food will end up being pretty small/low. Also, consider overall health/nutrition...
That comment is fine but a lot of times people dont give context like that
You choose to interpret "whatever I want" as "unlimited amounts of anything".kommodevaran wrote: »
Unlimited, or too large, amounts of something, is, again, not what "whatever" means.kommodevaran wrote: »
You watch, but you don't see? You read, but you don't understand what you read?janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. People new to counting calories dont know how far 1200 or 1500 calories go. They may try eating the same junk foods, realize their calories have quickly run out, end up hungry, and give up. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.
There’s a big difference between “whatever you want” and “however MUCH you want”. Try thinking of it that way?
I know there is a difference but a lot of people reading these boards may not. As I mentioned earlier, I asked a few people IRL what they thought of that comment..... They all pretty much said whatever you want is unlimited of what they want.
Do these real life people log their food?
I'm not sure. Some of them have lost a lot of weight. I work in a hospital so I asked some of the nurses there that have lost a good amount of weight. I just asked them what they thought of that comment. The people I know that have lost significant weight are not eating junk food all the time. I see their lunches at work, primarily healthy foods and portion sizes.
I think it was "condemning the OP to failure", not general condemnation, and suggesting that you can suggest an elimination diet if you want, not that you did.So far it is. The hardest part for me is sticking to my calorie budget without being hungry. That has forced me to eliminate my favorite foods for the most part because they dont fit in my calorie budget.
Ok. Why don't you open your diary and start a new thread and see if there is some advice this forum can give you for helping you with your hunger so you can have more of your favorite foods?
I am being 100 percent serious. There is a chance some of the really smart and experienced people here can give you some ideas with which to experiment.
I thought about it but it seems a lot of people in this message board are very judgemental. I mean in this message board people have accused me of condemning the OP and suggesting an elimination diet which I never did.
My whole point is that an occasional treat or small portion of it is doable, but that is not whatever you want.
You could up your calories a bit. You could redefine hungry. You could stop the feeling of entitlement. Maybe you're envoius of some phantom, but, reality check: No average height and normal weight female can eat 600 calories of ice cream often and still maintain a normal weight and get in good nutrition, unless she is very active.I pretty much have a good knowledge base already. I know what I have to do. I am doing it. I just have to live with either being hungry and eating my favorite foods or being more full and avoiding my favorites. I eat treats occasionally. If someone has some magic way of fitting 600 CALORIES OF Haagen Daaz fit into 1400 calorie budget where I can still be full let me know. It is not possible.
That's what "whatever I want" suggests to me and I'm not the only one who interprets that comment that way. I know that I cant eat ice cream every day. I dont eat it every day. That is the whole point i have been making. I dont feel entitled. I know I cant eat whatever I want and still lose weight. My maintenance calories range from 1700-1900 with exercise so upping my calories isnt an option. Losing weight is not easy.
You choose to aim for a 500-700 calorie deficit.
You choose to make weightloss hard.
I have seen many threads where that comment was thrown out there without additional information. If my maintenance is 1650, how is 1400 a 500-700 calorie deficit? That is with almost 10000 steps a day. It is people like you that discourage some from seeking advice here.16 -
I am not doing any worst case scenario. I have said many things that are true. Many people struggle with hunger, with portion control, and fitting foods they like in their calorie budget. All truths.
Those things are true but they have nothing to do with making a statement misleading or not.
8 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
How is 1650 1700-1900, and how is 1400 1200? And please link some of those threads without additional information. People are shocked to hear that they can make their own decisions, many people don't like to hear it. But ultimately, everybody make their own decisions. Having enough, balanced and neutral information so one can make overall good decisions, is a good thing, in my opinion. People like you is why we can't have nice things.kommodevaran wrote: »
Come on. We have given nothing but context.I'm not sure. Some of them have lost a lot of weight. I work in a hospital so I asked some of the nurses there that have lost a good amount of weight. I just asked them what they thought of that comment. The people I know that have lost significant weight are not eating junk food all the time. I see their lunches at work, primarily healthy foods and portion sizes.
Have you read the second response in this thread?
Which one of your concerns does this response, quoted here for your convenience, NOT address?As long as 1200 cals puts you in a calorie deficit, then yes you'll lose weight.
However, it can be hard to sustain the type of diet you mentioned (fries, chocolate, pizza) because the quantity of food will end up being pretty small/low. Also, consider overall health/nutrition...
That comment is fine but a lot of times people dont give context like that
You choose to interpret "whatever I want" as "unlimited amounts of anything".kommodevaran wrote: »
Unlimited, or too large, amounts of something, is, again, not what "whatever" means.kommodevaran wrote: »
You watch, but you don't see? You read, but you don't understand what you read?janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. People new to counting calories dont know how far 1200 or 1500 calories go. They may try eating the same junk foods, realize their calories have quickly run out, end up hungry, and give up. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.
There’s a big difference between “whatever you want” and “however MUCH you want”. Try thinking of it that way?
I know there is a difference but a lot of people reading these boards may not. As I mentioned earlier, I asked a few people IRL what they thought of that comment..... They all pretty much said whatever you want is unlimited of what they want.
Do these real life people log their food?
I'm not sure. Some of them have lost a lot of weight. I work in a hospital so I asked some of the nurses there that have lost a good amount of weight. I just asked them what they thought of that comment. The people I know that have lost significant weight are not eating junk food all the time. I see their lunches at work, primarily healthy foods and portion sizes.
I think it was "condemning the OP to failure", not general condemnation, and suggesting that you can suggest an elimination diet if you want, not that you did.So far it is. The hardest part for me is sticking to my calorie budget without being hungry. That has forced me to eliminate my favorite foods for the most part because they dont fit in my calorie budget.
Ok. Why don't you open your diary and start a new thread and see if there is some advice this forum can give you for helping you with your hunger so you can have more of your favorite foods?
I am being 100 percent serious. There is a chance some of the really smart and experienced people here can give you some ideas with which to experiment.
I thought about it but it seems a lot of people in this message board are very judgemental. I mean in this message board people have accused me of condemning the OP and suggesting an elimination diet which I never did.
My whole point is that an occasional treat or small portion of it is doable, but that is not whatever you want.
You could up your calories a bit. You could redefine hungry. You could stop the feeling of entitlement. Maybe you're envoius of some phantom, but, reality check: No average height and normal weight female can eat 600 calories of ice cream often and still maintain a normal weight and get in good nutrition, unless she is very active.I pretty much have a good knowledge base already. I know what I have to do. I am doing it. I just have to live with either being hungry and eating my favorite foods or being more full and avoiding my favorites. I eat treats occasionally. If someone has some magic way of fitting 600 CALORIES OF Haagen Daaz fit into 1400 calorie budget where I can still be full let me know. It is not possible.
That's what "whatever I want" suggests to me and I'm not the only one who interprets that comment that way. I know that I cant eat ice cream every day. I dont eat it every day. That is the whole point i have been making. I dont feel entitled. I know I cant eat whatever I want and still lose weight. My maintenance calories range from 1700-1900 with exercise so upping my calories isnt an option. Losing weight is not easy.
You choose to aim for a 500-700 calorie deficit.
You choose to make weightloss hard.
I have seen many threads where that comment was thrown out there without additional information. If my maintenance is 1650, how is 1400 a 500-700 calorie deficit? That is with almost 10000 steps a day. It is people like you that discourage some from seeking advice here.
Nothing you said made sense there.6 -
I am not doing any worst case scenario. I have said many things that are true. Many people struggle with hunger, with portion control, and fitting foods they like in their calorie budget. All truths.
Those things are true but they have nothing to do with making a statement misleading or not.
I was accused of being unrealistic. Many people can't make their favorite foods a frequent part of their calorie budget in a portion that is satisfying. That is reality for some people. I'm just being scapegoated here and attacked for no reason. I see now why some people join MFP but never post. Adios.11 -
Somebody PLEASE just let her have the last word and let's move on. This is getting ridiculous and completely derailing the thread. It's not beneficial to the OP or anybody else.14
-
The first part was referring to how you first said you were eating 1200 calories, and that your maintenance calories were 1700 to 1900. Then suddenly your maintenance calories were 1650 and you were eating a diet of 1400 calories. That's not moving the goalposts, that's blowing up the arena.kommodevaran wrote: »
How is 1650 1700-1900, and how is 1400 1200? And please link some of those threads without additional information. People are shocked to hear that they can make their own decisions, many people don't like to hear it. But ultimately, everybody make their own decisions. Having enough, balanced and neutral information so one can make overall good decisions, is a good thing, in my opinion. People like you is why we can't have nice things.kommodevaran wrote: »
Come on. We have given nothing but context.I'm not sure. Some of them have lost a lot of weight. I work in a hospital so I asked some of the nurses there that have lost a good amount of weight. I just asked them what they thought of that comment. The people I know that have lost significant weight are not eating junk food all the time. I see their lunches at work, primarily healthy foods and portion sizes.
Have you read the second response in this thread?
Which one of your concerns does this response, quoted here for your convenience, NOT address?As long as 1200 cals puts you in a calorie deficit, then yes you'll lose weight.
However, it can be hard to sustain the type of diet you mentioned (fries, chocolate, pizza) because the quantity of food will end up being pretty small/low. Also, consider overall health/nutrition...
That comment is fine but a lot of times people dont give context like that
You choose to interpret "whatever I want" as "unlimited amounts of anything".kommodevaran wrote: »
Unlimited, or too large, amounts of something, is, again, not what "whatever" means.kommodevaran wrote: »
You watch, but you don't see? You read, but you don't understand what you read?janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. One piece of thin crust pizza is not " whatever I want". For me it is 2 or 3 slices of regular crust. I'm trying to be realistic here. For the average person eating "whatever" is why they are overweight in the first place and those types of comments are not helpful. As a relatively new person to these forums I'm saying that and I'm sure others may agree. Why do you think many people express surprise? Eating whatever they want doesnt work..
Since you said you’re new at this - let me throw out this perspective. Choosing thick crust pizza is what I did when I weighed 267 lbs. now I weigh 170 on the way to 150. My pizza of choice is either a slice of thick crust, 1/2 a thin crust pie or a lean cuisine 410 cal pizza. Since that is what I will continue to need to choose to maintain my weight, that falls into “what I want”. It’s not a sacrifice or a punishment, it’s my new normal. Not going all or nothing with food choices is the key to loss and maintence.
Let me clarify, I'm NOT new to calorie counting. I have been keeping food journals since I was 18 years old. I'm 35 now. I am pretty knowlegable when it comes to food and nutrition. I am new to these message boards. I'm not suggesting that people go all or nothing. I'm saying that the phrase " whatever you want" is misleading, especially to people who dont have knowledge about food and calories. People new to counting calories dont know how far 1200 or 1500 calories go. They may try eating the same junk foods, realize their calories have quickly run out, end up hungry, and give up. I have had to accept the reality that I can't eat whatever I want. That is a reality for me. It may not be your reality but it is for some people.
There’s a big difference between “whatever you want” and “however MUCH you want”. Try thinking of it that way?
I know there is a difference but a lot of people reading these boards may not. As I mentioned earlier, I asked a few people IRL what they thought of that comment..... They all pretty much said whatever you want is unlimited of what they want.
Do these real life people log their food?
I'm not sure. Some of them have lost a lot of weight. I work in a hospital so I asked some of the nurses there that have lost a good amount of weight. I just asked them what they thought of that comment. The people I know that have lost significant weight are not eating junk food all the time. I see their lunches at work, primarily healthy foods and portion sizes.
I think it was "condemning the OP to failure", not general condemnation, and suggesting that you can suggest an elimination diet if you want, not that you did.So far it is. The hardest part for me is sticking to my calorie budget without being hungry. That has forced me to eliminate my favorite foods for the most part because they dont fit in my calorie budget.
Ok. Why don't you open your diary and start a new thread and see if there is some advice this forum can give you for helping you with your hunger so you can have more of your favorite foods?
I am being 100 percent serious. There is a chance some of the really smart and experienced people here can give you some ideas with which to experiment.
I thought about it but it seems a lot of people in this message board are very judgemental. I mean in this message board people have accused me of condemning the OP and suggesting an elimination diet which I never did.
My whole point is that an occasional treat or small portion of it is doable, but that is not whatever you want.
You could up your calories a bit. You could redefine hungry. You could stop the feeling of entitlement. Maybe you're envoius of some phantom, but, reality check: No average height and normal weight female can eat 600 calories of ice cream often and still maintain a normal weight and get in good nutrition, unless she is very active.I pretty much have a good knowledge base already. I know what I have to do. I am doing it. I just have to live with either being hungry and eating my favorite foods or being more full and avoiding my favorites. I eat treats occasionally. If someone has some magic way of fitting 600 CALORIES OF Haagen Daaz fit into 1400 calorie budget where I can still be full let me know. It is not possible.
That's what "whatever I want" suggests to me and I'm not the only one who interprets that comment that way. I know that I cant eat ice cream every day. I dont eat it every day. That is the whole point i have been making. I dont feel entitled. I know I cant eat whatever I want and still lose weight. My maintenance calories range from 1700-1900 with exercise so upping my calories isnt an option. Losing weight is not easy.
You choose to aim for a 500-700 calorie deficit.
You choose to make weightloss hard.
I have seen many threads where that comment was thrown out there without additional information. If my maintenance is 1650, how is 1400 a 500-700 calorie deficit? That is with almost 10000 steps a day. It is people like you that discourage some from seeking advice here.
Nothing you said made sense there.
The other part is exactly why we're talking in circles having this conversation. You don't want to adjust your needs and wants to be more in line. You want everything, now. We can't have everything, all the time. But we can have a little of what we want, now and then.12 -
But shoot @anvilhead I was trying to get to 1k posts today.6
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At this rate you're getting thereBut shoot @anvilhead I was trying to get to 1k posts today.
It's past midnight here, but I suspect you're in the Americas 
5 -
Every thread like this devolves into the complainer ceding that the bad advice wasn't in THIS thread, but they've seen it in lots of other threads. And then saying they aren't going to waste time pointing us to a couple of these threads, because reasons.
OP, I hope you got the advice you needed before you lost your thread. Please feel free to start another one if you have follow up questions. Not all threads go so far off the path like this one did. Good luck :drinker:14 -
stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
That’s because there are no limits
Chocolate cake
Ice cream
Pizza
All permitted in appropriate portion sizes.
It’s the learning process so that you develop sustainable habits for life. And don’t yo yo cycle forever
Exactly. The pizza I like is 300 calories a slice. The cake, easily 400-500.
I can't fit them in "whenever I want" because I don't have that much room to eat satisfying portions (3-4 slices of pizza, for example, and more than a sliver of cake). But I can fit them in as sometimes treats.
4 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
I would say that eating fries, chocolate, and pizza within quantities that meet one's calorie goal is moderation.
OP could eat these foods often within her calorie goal if she wanted to. Even a calorie goal of 1,200 would allow for, say, a fun-sized candy bar, a piece of pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of french fries daily with 635 calories to spare. And we have no reason to believe that OP is even wanting to eat all these foods within a single day, but we know that she could and still lose weight.
Maybe those serving sizes wouldn't be satisfying to you. That's good information for you when planning your meals, it's irrelevant to OP.
Maybe you would struggle with hunger on a plan that sometimes included those foods. Again, great information for you, not so important for anyone else.
The important thing: if 1,200 calories is a deficit for someone, then eating 635 calories a day plus a fun-sized Snickers, a piece of Papa John's thin crust pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of McDonald's fries would result in weight loss. That's the question OP asked. Are you saying we should say "No" in response to that question?
If you could figure out that pizza doesn't work for you in the context of a deficit, why can't we assume that OP will also figure it out if it is true for her?
She may figure out what works for her. I hope she does. For a lot of people who are new to dieting, sticking with all of their same calorie rich foods and/or their usual portion sizes probably will end in failure though. Most people want to be full and not super hungry at the end of the day. If someone likes no healthy or lower calorie foods, then they will probably have a hard time sticking to their calorie budget eating only rich foods. That's the point I'm trying to make.
I would argue that if someone tries to eat exactly what they used to eat, remains hungry for weeks on end, and then quits instead of trying to adjust, then they may not have been ready to lose weight in the first place. That may just be my own experience clouding my judgement, though.
We have an OP here, already reaching out and trying to form some of those supportive bonds that would help get her through some of those early discomfort days many of us had, and instead of embracing her you are telling her that her way absolutely won't work. I think context is great. I think more information is usually good but not always. I just find browbeating a new dieter to be off-putting.
im not criticizing her. I was saying how the commonly used phrase of eat whatever you want in a calorie budget is misleading and overly simplistic because it doesn't mention the hard reality of portion control or how hard fitting those foods one really wants into their calorie budget actually is.
But portion control isn't hard. I have LITERALLY sat down with myself and said, "I'm going to be going out to eat. What can I order within my calories? Should I exercise more beforehand? Do I need a lighter lunch/dinner? Does this fit? How badly do I want it?" And making the adjustments is just... normal. Like having X amount of money in your wallet, knowing that's it until payday and deciding whether to blow 90% of it on one purchase and basically live on a shoestring for the next couple of days, or spacing it out more. It's not some messy, painful process fraught with tears and frustration. It's just... what you do.
Right, because that’s how “normal” weight people eat EVERY DAY!9 -
I am not doing any worst case scenario. I have said many things that are true. Many people struggle with hunger, with portion control, and fitting foods they like in their calorie budget. All truths.
Those things are true but they have nothing to do with making a statement misleading or not.
I was accused of being unrealistic. Many people can't make their favorite foods a frequent part of their calorie budget in a portion that is satisfying. That is reality for some people. I'm just being scapegoated here and attacked for no reason. I see now why some people join MFP but never post. Adios.
My last word I promise. If you want to lose weight AND maintain a certain lower weight, you will have to change your idea of satisfying. It’s not tragic - just a simple fact. As they say, choose your hard.9 -
diannethegeek wrote: »So far it is. The hardest part for me is sticking to my calorie budget without being hungry. That has forced me to eliminate my favorite foods for the most part because they dont fit in my calorie budget.
Ok. Why don't you open your diary and start a new thread and see if there is some advice we can give you for helping you with your hunger so you can have more of your favorite foods?
I am being 100 percent serious. There is a chance some of the really smart and experienced people here can give you some ideas with which to experiment.
these are my really general tips for hunger:
1. Make sure that your calorie goals are actually set appropriately. Don't skip this step. A lot of people set goals that are too aggressive and then wonder why they're having a hard time. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/819055/setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets
2. Try different macros. A lot of people look for foods higher in protein, fat, and fiber. These help us stay full and more satisfied longer. If you're using MFP's default settings, try to consider protein, fat, and fiber as minimums to reach every day rather than maximums to stay below. Others feel better with high volume, higher carb diets (I trend this way during my period, personally). That's okay, too. See what makes you feel best.
3. Drink plenty of fluids. Some people really do confuse thirst and hunger.
4. Get plenty of rest. This includes sleeping enough and taking rest days from the exercise. Sometimes our bodies look for food when they're exhausted.
5. Play around with your meal timings. Some people do really well on 5-6 small meals a day and others feel like they want to gnaw their own arm off eating like that. Skipping breakfast, eating breakfast, 16:8 fasting, 6 small meals, 3 larger meals, snacks, no snacks, meal timing won't make a big difference to your weight loss, but it may help your hunger levels, mood, concentration, gym performance, etc. throughout the day. Don't be afraid to try a different way and see if it helps.
6. Wait it out. If you know you're eating enough and the other steps above aren't helping, you may just have to wait it out. Our bodies send out hunger signals partially out of habit. If you eat at a certain time every day your body will start to get hungry at that time. The good news is that these signals can be retrained to stop telling you to be hungry all the time. The bad news is that you may just have to be hungry for a little bit while that happens.
7. I also think it's important to remember that there's a habitual component to hunger. This goes along with point #6, but if you eat because you're bored or you're used to eating in front of the TV or in the car or whatever it is, then you can replace those habits with others that are better for you. Things like keeping water on hand to sip instead of snacking or picking up hobbies that keep your hands busy or that get you out of the house more can help out a little while you're retraining your hunger cues. You might need to pay attention to why you're eating/hungry or what you're feeling when you eat and try to replace food with other things, but it can be really beneficial over time.
These are good tips. Some people do these things and are still hungry at the end of the day. It does seem like a lot of people set their calorie goals too low......1000 etc. But for some people with a more reasonable goal and calorie budget, hunger still exists.
Of course hunger will still exist for some people even with these tips. I would say most people even will still be hungry sometimes. Hunger is a thing we all have to live with at times and make our peace with. But the hows and whys are often highly individual and need to be solved through thoughtful experimentation.
Why are you jumping down people's throats for trying to help?10 -
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So a white knight the OP never asked for is upset about posters misconstruing her posts misconstruing the posts of the other posters, and has derailed the thread for seven full pages to make it clear how upset she is.
Hopefully the OP is enjoying a tasty slice of pizza within her calorie target. Never change MFP, never ever ever change.21 -
So far it is. The hardest part for me is sticking to my calorie budget without being hungry. That has forced me to eliminate my favorite foods for the most part because they dont fit in my calorie budget.
EXACTLY. But you CAN still eat your FAVOURITE FOODS ONCE IN A WHILE WITHIN YOUR BUDGET.
The point is that in order to lose weight and maintain your weight you have to forge a new reality where instead of literally asking yourself "am I going to order extra large fries AGAIN? I've had fries with every single meal THIS WEEK! I wish McDonald's had some salad"... which is an ACTUAL SELF DIALOGUE I'VE HAD several years ago when they didn't offer salads.... you look through your log and you discover a single small order of fries, a steak sandwich with fries, and an all you can eat fish and chips dinner which involved at least 250g of chips, THIS YEAR.
So eating your favourite foods does not mean having fries every day because then you won't be able to stay within your budget.
Simpez.
Exactly. I have budgeted treats in occasionally but that certainly does not mean "whatever I want".
It DOES. It is 100% exactly and precisely what it means.
You can eat whatever the *kitten* you want. AS LONG AS YOU CAN STICK TO YOUR BUDGET.
So you have to budget and ration and make choices because you... have a budget!
And consequences when you can't stick to it.
Hey @nooshi713: I work a minimum wage job and Shania Twain is coming to town. Can I go see her? I dig that chick!
Why, yes, PAV888 if you can make it fit your budget go see Shania, but you might find yourself a bit short of rent money if you're not very careful. and, now that I think of it, you might not even be able to get front row seats, but perhaps a nice seat in the nosebleed section will let you have some fun!
@nooshi713, you *kitten* why are you **kittening** me by saying I can go see Shania.
I TOLD YOU I am making minimum wage. And I have to pay rent. And I want to see Shania and Jay-Z, and Biebs and Pearl Jam, and Eminem, and eat lost of M&Ms for that matter!
So OBVIOUSLY I can't go see all of them so why are you lying to me and pretending that I can!
All I can afford to do is go to the park and listen to whoever the city brings in for free in conjunction with the harvest festival, or maybe the Jazz festival, or the big parade festival.
You liar you, telling me I can go to whichever concert I want to if I can fit it in my budget.24 -
So far it is. The hardest part for me is sticking to my calorie budget without being hungry. That has forced me to eliminate my favorite foods for the most part because they dont fit in my calorie budget.
EXACTLY. But you CAN still eat your FAVOURITE FOODS ONCE IN A WHILE WITHIN YOUR BUDGET.
The point is that in order to lose weight and maintain your weight you have to forge a new reality where instead of literally asking yourself "am I going to order extra large fries AGAIN? I've had fries with every single meal THIS WEEK! I wish McDonald's had some salad"... which is an ACTUAL SELF DIALOGUE I'VE HAD several years ago when they didn't offer salads.... you look through your log and you discover a single small order of fries, a steak sandwich with fries, and an all you can eat fish and chips dinner which involved at least 250g of chips, THIS YEAR.
So eating your favourite foods does not mean having fries every day because then you won't be able to stay within your budget.
Simpez.
Exactly. I have budgeted treats in occasionally but that certainly does not mean "whatever I want".
It DOES. It is 100% exactly and precisely what it means.
You can eat whatever the *kitten* you want. AS LONG AS YOU CAN STICK TO YOUR BUDGET.
So you have to budget and ration and make choices because you... have a budget!
And consequences when you can't stick to it.
Hey @nooshi713: I work a minimum wage job and Shania Twain is coming to town. Can I go see her? I dig that chick!
Why, yes, PAV888 if you can make it fit your budget go see Shania, but you might find yourself a bit short of rent money if you're not very careful. and, now that I think of it, you might not even be able to get front row seats, but perhaps a nice seat in the nosebleed section will let you have some fun!
@nooshi713, you *kitten* why are you **kittening** me by saying I can go see Shania.
I TOLD YOU I am making minimum wage. And I have to pay rent. And I want to see Shania and Jay-Z, and Biebs and Pearl Jam, and Eminem, and eat lost of M&Ms for that matter!
So OBVIOUSLY I can't go see all of them so why are you lying to me and pretending that I can!
All I can afford to do is go to the park and listen to whoever the city brings in for free in conjunction with the harvest festival, or maybe the Jazz festival, or the big parade festival.
You liar you, telling me I can go to whichever concert I want to if I can fit it in my budget.
QFA: Quoted for Awesome10 -
So far it is. The hardest part for me is sticking to my calorie budget without being hungry. That has forced me to eliminate my favorite foods for the most part because they dont fit in my calorie budget.
EXACTLY. But you CAN still eat your FAVOURITE FOODS ONCE IN A WHILE WITHIN YOUR BUDGET.
The point is that in order to lose weight and maintain your weight you have to forge a new reality where instead of literally asking yourself "am I going to order extra large fries AGAIN? I've had fries with every single meal THIS WEEK! I wish McDonald's had some salad"... which is an ACTUAL SELF DIALOGUE I'VE HAD several years ago when they didn't offer salads.... you look through your log and you discover a single small order of fries, a steak sandwich with fries, and an all you can eat fish and chips dinner which involved at least 250g of chips, THIS YEAR.
So eating your favourite foods does not mean having fries every day because then you won't be able to stay within your budget.
Simpez.
Exactly. I have budgeted treats in occasionally but that certainly does not mean "whatever I want".
It DOES. It is 100% exactly and precisely what it means.
You can eat whatever the *kitten* you want. AS LONG AS YOU CAN STICK TO YOUR BUDGET.
So you have to budget and ration and make choices because you... have a budget!
And consequences when you can't stick to it.
Hey @nooshi713: I work a minimum wage job and Shania Twain is coming to town. Can I go see her? I dig that chick!
Why, yes, PAV888 if you can make it fit your budget go see Shania, but you might find yourself a bit short of rent money if you're not very careful. and, now that I think of it, you might not even be able to get front row seats, but perhaps a nice seat in the nosebleed section will let you have some fun!
@nooshi713, you *kitten* why are you **kittening** me by saying I can go see Shania.
I TOLD YOU I am making minimum wage. And I have to pay rent. And I want to see Shania and Jay-Z, and Biebs and Pearl Jam, and Eminem, and eat lost of M&Ms for that matter!
So OBVIOUSLY I can't go see all of them so why are you lying to me and pretending that I can!
All I can afford to do is go to the park and listen to whoever the city brings in for free in conjunction with the harvest festival, or maybe the Jazz festival, or the big parade festival.
You liar you, telling me I can go to whichever concert I want to if I can fit it in my budget.
QFA: Quoted for Awesome
Yep3 -
If someone has some magic way of fitting 600 CALORIES OF Haagen Daaz into a1400 calorie budget where I can still be full let me know. It is not possible.
1. Halo top or the whole slew of competitors that use various combinations of fiber and polyalcohols and higher protein content to create a pint-ish of ice cream-like in the 320 to 400 Cal range.
2. Frozen banana + frozen lower calorie fruits such as blueberries, strawberries, or peaches and blended with various combinations of 0% or 2% yogurt/greek yogurt, milk, milk substitutes, with or without protein powder, with or without ice.
You're welcome.
7
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