Coke zero
Replies
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I would respectfully disagree that the studies you reference show a "strong correlation" or that "they seem to have a very adverse effect". Because the thing with correlation is that you don't know which way the correlation goes. Does diet soda cause weight gain or do overweight people switch to diet soda? Is it possible overweight people switch to diet soda because it seems like an easy way to save calories, but then never change anything else so they just keep gaining weight? Is it possible people who drink diet soda feel like they now have some wiggle room since they saved some calories and so subconsciously eat a little more?
This is anecdotal and not at all related to my original post. Studies don't look at the one guy who went on a caloric deficient cycle and lost weight.
it looks at controlled groups.
It just so happens that the Aspartame you're vigorously defending has side unexpected long term side effects and it presented itself only in the control groups, which does suggest a correlation.Also, if artificial sweeteners raise blood sugar levels and therefore stimulate insulin production, why have the thousands and thousands of diabetics who routinely test their blood glucose levels multiple times a day not reported the fact that the diet soda the ADA suggests they drink is actually causing blood sugar to rise?
Again, comprehension is very important here.
The suggested correlation between long term consumption of Aspartame vs Insulin resistance by way of bacterium imbalance is verified in mice with similar effects in human controlled groups.
Neither the studies, nor I, ever suggested that your blood sugar goes up with every sip.The problem with the studies done on humans is that it is literally impossible to control all the other variables than the one you are testing. There are some people who have been drinking diet soda since they were children, others who switch to it for any number of reasons at different points in their lives. Often, people switch to artificial sweeteners thinking that's all they need to do. Other times people switch to diet soda while making full lifestyle changes. What other psychological, diet, and exercise changes did those pregnant women and elderly people make? Is it possible those other factors, which perhaps are correlated with choosing diet soda, actually caused the negative weight result? No way to tell.
By your logic, there's no point in doing any studies.
Yes, it is possible. But, in this case, Aspartame consumption is the only constant in all of the control groups.
Particularly in Diet or Zero Calorie drinks.
The studies are then verified within animal testing.
Both show the same results with animals being the absolute controlled environment and human studies being data collection, which is flawed, but even if you remove the top and bottom 15% of the results, which are usually the variants, the group study is still valid.
Scientists can't put people in cages to control them 24/7, so the duplication of results obtained in animals is the strong correlation.The fact is, there is no biological or chemical reason currently known as to how or why artificial sweeteners could actually cause weight gain, and there are myriad confounding uncontrolled variables that make population studies like the ones you cited useless. And there are tons of people here who are carefully tracking their calories, drinking diet soda and putting artificial sweetener in their tea and coffee, and losing weight exactly as expected.
Everyone loves a good bogey man, so the idea that artificial sweeteners are some kind of a problem will most likely continue. They are some of, if not the, most studied food additives in history, in wide use for decades, with no definitive proof of any actual negatives.
No. That is not the fact.
There's lack of comprehension of how studies work and that's the reason why people believe that "smelling farts helps to prevent cancer". It was on the Today Show, so it must be right.
People who were exposed to Asbestos, developed cancer over years of exposure.
People who smoke cigarrettes, have a higher risk of lung cancer... But wait... They drive, so they are exposed to carbon monoxide. In the 60s, Camel Cigarettes were the most recommended by doctors... Go figure.
Hexavalent Chromium doesn't cause cancer, or miscarriage, or malformation in babies with one sip, but the long term exposure in Hinckley, CA condemned half a city to a lifetime in the hospital... You may have seen that in a movie. Julia Roberts starred in it.
Now, all of these people ate food for years, good and bad food, they drove cars, they may or may not have had lead paint exposure or Asbestos exposure and some of them even used drugs.
Should we call the scientists at the American Cancer Institute and tell them they don't know "shiznitz".
In the end, all of this won't matter, because you love the taste of Coke Zero.
And I haven't even talked about the rest of the ingredients:
Carbonated water, caramel color, phosphoric acid, aspartame, potassium benzoate, natural flavors, potassium citrate, acesulfame potassium, caffeine.
I will stop here, because there's no longer a point in arguing.
As I said before. Drink whatever you want.
19 -
I would respectfully disagree that the studies you reference show a "strong correlation" or that "they seem to have a very adverse effect". Because the thing with correlation is that you don't know which way the correlation goes. Does diet soda cause weight gain or do overweight people switch to diet soda? Is it possible overweight people switch to diet soda because it seems like an easy way to save calories, but then never change anything else so they just keep gaining weight? Is it possible people who drink diet soda feel like they now have some wiggle room since they saved some calories and so subconsciously eat a little more?
This is anecdotal and not at all related to my original post. Studies don't look at the one guy who went on a caloric deficient cycle and lost weight.
it looks at controlled groups.
It just so happens that the Aspartame you're vigorously defending has side unexpected long term side effects and it presented itself only in the control groups, which does suggest a correlation.Also, if artificial sweeteners raise blood sugar levels and therefore stimulate insulin production, why have the thousands and thousands of diabetics who routinely test their blood glucose levels multiple times a day not reported the fact that the diet soda the ADA suggests they drink is actually causing blood sugar to rise?
Again, comprehension is very important here.
The suggested correlation between long term consumption of Aspartame vs Insulin resistance by way of bacterium imbalance is verified in mice with similar effects in human controlled groups.
Neither the studies, nor I, ever suggested that your blood sugar goes up with every sip.The problem with the studies done on humans is that it is literally impossible to control all the other variables than the one you are testing. There are some people who have been drinking diet soda since they were children, others who switch to it for any number of reasons at different points in their lives. Often, people switch to artificial sweeteners thinking that's all they need to do. Other times people switch to diet soda while making full lifestyle changes. What other psychological, diet, and exercise changes did those pregnant women and elderly people make? Is it possible those other factors, which perhaps are correlated with choosing diet soda, actually caused the negative weight result? No way to tell.
By your logic, there's no point in doing any studies.
Yes, it is possible. But, in this case, Aspartame consumption is the only constant in all of the control groups.
Particularly in Diet or Zero Calorie drinks.
The studies are then verified within animal testing.
Both show the same results with animals being the absolute controlled environment and human studies being data collection, which is flawed, but even if you remove the top and bottom 15% of the results, which are usually the variants, the group study is still valid.
Scientists can't put people in cages to control them 24/7, so the duplication of results obtained in animals is the strong correlation.The fact is, there is no biological or chemical reason currently known as to how or why artificial sweeteners could actually cause weight gain, and there are myriad confounding uncontrolled variables that make population studies like the ones you cited useless. And there are tons of people here who are carefully tracking their calories, drinking diet soda and putting artificial sweetener in their tea and coffee, and losing weight exactly as expected.
Everyone loves a good bogey man, so the idea that artificial sweeteners are some kind of a problem will most likely continue. They are some of, if not the, most studied food additives in history, in wide use for decades, with no definitive proof of any actual negatives.
No. That is not the fact.
There's lack of comprehension of how studies work and that's the reason why people believe that "smelling farts helps to prevent cancer". It was on the Today Show, so it must be right.
People who were exposed to Asbestos, developed cancer over years of exposure.
People who smoke cigarrettes, have a higher risk of lung cancer... But wait... They drive, so they are exposed to carbon monoxide. In the 60s, Camel Cigarettes were the most recommended by doctors... Go figure.
Hexavalent Chromium doesn't cause cancer, or miscarriage, or malformation in babies with one sip, but the long term exposure in Hinckley, CA condemned half a city to a lifetime in the hospital... You may have seen that in a movie. Julia Roberts starred in it.
Now, all of these people ate food for years, good and bad food, they drove cars, they may or may not have had lead paint exposure or Asbestos exposure and some of them even used drugs.
Should we call the scientists at the American Cancer Institute and tell them they don't know "shiznitz".
In the end, all of this won't matter, because you love the taste of Coke Zero.
And I haven't even talked about the rest of the ingredients:
Carbonated water, caramel color, phosphoric acid, aspartame, potassium benzoate, natural flavors, potassium citrate, acesulfame potassium, caffeine.
I will stop here, because there's no longer a point in arguing.
As I said before. Drink whatever you want.
For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I would respectfully disagree that the studies you reference show a "strong correlation" or that "they seem to have a very adverse effect". Because the thing with correlation is that you don't know which way the correlation goes. Does diet soda cause weight gain or do overweight people switch to diet soda? Is it possible overweight people switch to diet soda because it seems like an easy way to save calories, but then never change anything else so they just keep gaining weight? Is it possible people who drink diet soda feel like they now have some wiggle room since they saved some calories and so subconsciously eat a little more?
This is anecdotal and not at all related to my original post. Studies don't look at the one guy who went on a caloric deficient cycle and lost weight.
it looks at controlled groups.
It just so happens that the Aspartame you're vigorously defending has side unexpected long term side effects and it presented itself only in the control groups, which does suggest a correlation.Also, if artificial sweeteners raise blood sugar levels and therefore stimulate insulin production, why have the thousands and thousands of diabetics who routinely test their blood glucose levels multiple times a day not reported the fact that the diet soda the ADA suggests they drink is actually causing blood sugar to rise?
Again, comprehension is very important here.
The suggested correlation between long term consumption of Aspartame vs Insulin resistance by way of bacterium imbalance is verified in mice with similar effects in human controlled groups.
Neither the studies, nor I, ever suggested that your blood sugar goes up with every sip.The problem with the studies done on humans is that it is literally impossible to control all the other variables than the one you are testing. There are some people who have been drinking diet soda since they were children, others who switch to it for any number of reasons at different points in their lives. Often, people switch to artificial sweeteners thinking that's all they need to do. Other times people switch to diet soda while making full lifestyle changes. What other psychological, diet, and exercise changes did those pregnant women and elderly people make? Is it possible those other factors, which perhaps are correlated with choosing diet soda, actually caused the negative weight result? No way to tell.
By your logic, there's no point in doing any studies.
Yes, it is possible. But, in this case, Aspartame consumption is the only constant in all of the control groups.
Particularly in Diet or Zero Calorie drinks.
The studies are then verified within animal testing.
Both show the same results with animals being the absolute controlled environment and human studies being data collection, which is flawed, but even if you remove the top and bottom 15% of the results, which are usually the variants, the group study is still valid.
Scientists can't put people in cages to control them 24/7, so the duplication of results obtained in animals is the strong correlation.The fact is, there is no biological or chemical reason currently known as to how or why artificial sweeteners could actually cause weight gain, and there are myriad confounding uncontrolled variables that make population studies like the ones you cited useless. And there are tons of people here who are carefully tracking their calories, drinking diet soda and putting artificial sweetener in their tea and coffee, and losing weight exactly as expected.
Everyone loves a good bogey man, so the idea that artificial sweeteners are some kind of a problem will most likely continue. They are some of, if not the, most studied food additives in history, in wide use for decades, with no definitive proof of any actual negatives.
No. That is not the fact.
There's lack of comprehension of how studies work and that's the reason why people believe that "smelling farts helps to prevent cancer". It was on the Today Show, so it must be right.
People who were exposed to Asbestos, developed cancer over years of exposure.
People who smoke cigarrettes, have a higher risk of lung cancer... But wait... They drive, so they are exposed to carbon monoxide. In the 60s, Camel Cigarettes were the most recommended by doctors... Go figure.
Hexavalent Chromium doesn't cause cancer, or miscarriage, or malformation in babies with one sip, but the long term exposure in Hinckley, CA condemned half a city to a lifetime in the hospital... You may have seen that in a movie. Julia Roberts starred in it.
Now, all of these people ate food for years, good and bad food, they drove cars, they may or may not have had lead paint exposure or Asbestos exposure and some of them even used drugs.
Should we call the scientists at the American Cancer Institute and tell them they don't know "shiznitz".
In the end, all of this won't matter, because you love the taste of Coke Zero.
And I haven't even talked about the rest of the ingredients:
Carbonated water, caramel color, phosphoric acid, aspartame, potassium benzoate, natural flavors, potassium citrate, acesulfame potassium, caffeine.
I will stop here, because there's no longer a point in arguing.
As I said before. Drink whatever you want.
For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?
It sounds scary?
9 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I would respectfully disagree that the studies you reference show a "strong correlation" or that "they seem to have a very adverse effect". Because the thing with correlation is that you don't know which way the correlation goes. Does diet soda cause weight gain or do overweight people switch to diet soda? Is it possible overweight people switch to diet soda because it seems like an easy way to save calories, but then never change anything else so they just keep gaining weight? Is it possible people who drink diet soda feel like they now have some wiggle room since they saved some calories and so subconsciously eat a little more?
This is anecdotal and not at all related to my original post. Studies don't look at the one guy who went on a caloric deficient cycle and lost weight.
it looks at controlled groups.
It just so happens that the Aspartame you're vigorously defending has side unexpected long term side effects and it presented itself only in the control groups, which does suggest a correlation.Also, if artificial sweeteners raise blood sugar levels and therefore stimulate insulin production, why have the thousands and thousands of diabetics who routinely test their blood glucose levels multiple times a day not reported the fact that the diet soda the ADA suggests they drink is actually causing blood sugar to rise?
Again, comprehension is very important here.
The suggested correlation between long term consumption of Aspartame vs Insulin resistance by way of bacterium imbalance is verified in mice with similar effects in human controlled groups.
Neither the studies, nor I, ever suggested that your blood sugar goes up with every sip.The problem with the studies done on humans is that it is literally impossible to control all the other variables than the one you are testing. There are some people who have been drinking diet soda since they were children, others who switch to it for any number of reasons at different points in their lives. Often, people switch to artificial sweeteners thinking that's all they need to do. Other times people switch to diet soda while making full lifestyle changes. What other psychological, diet, and exercise changes did those pregnant women and elderly people make? Is it possible those other factors, which perhaps are correlated with choosing diet soda, actually caused the negative weight result? No way to tell.
By your logic, there's no point in doing any studies.
Yes, it is possible. But, in this case, Aspartame consumption is the only constant in all of the control groups.
Particularly in Diet or Zero Calorie drinks.
The studies are then verified within animal testing.
Both show the same results with animals being the absolute controlled environment and human studies being data collection, which is flawed, but even if you remove the top and bottom 15% of the results, which are usually the variants, the group study is still valid.
Scientists can't put people in cages to control them 24/7, so the duplication of results obtained in animals is the strong correlation.The fact is, there is no biological or chemical reason currently known as to how or why artificial sweeteners could actually cause weight gain, and there are myriad confounding uncontrolled variables that make population studies like the ones you cited useless. And there are tons of people here who are carefully tracking their calories, drinking diet soda and putting artificial sweetener in their tea and coffee, and losing weight exactly as expected.
Everyone loves a good bogey man, so the idea that artificial sweeteners are some kind of a problem will most likely continue. They are some of, if not the, most studied food additives in history, in wide use for decades, with no definitive proof of any actual negatives.
No. That is not the fact.
There's lack of comprehension of how studies work and that's the reason why people believe that "smelling farts helps to prevent cancer". It was on the Today Show, so it must be right.
People who were exposed to Asbestos, developed cancer over years of exposure.
People who smoke cigarrettes, have a higher risk of lung cancer... But wait... They drive, so they are exposed to carbon monoxide. In the 60s, Camel Cigarettes were the most recommended by doctors... Go figure.
Hexavalent Chromium doesn't cause cancer, or miscarriage, or malformation in babies with one sip, but the long term exposure in Hinckley, CA condemned half a city to a lifetime in the hospital... You may have seen that in a movie. Julia Roberts starred in it.
Now, all of these people ate food for years, good and bad food, they drove cars, they may or may not have had lead paint exposure or Asbestos exposure and some of them even used drugs.
Should we call the scientists at the American Cancer Institute and tell them they don't know "shiznitz".
In the end, all of this won't matter, because you love the taste of Coke Zero.
And I haven't even talked about the rest of the ingredients:
Carbonated water, caramel color, phosphoric acid, aspartame, potassium benzoate, natural flavors, potassium citrate, acesulfame potassium, caffeine.
I will stop here, because there's no longer a point in arguing.
As I said before. Drink whatever you want.
For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?
It sounds scary?
The "I don't know what it is, so you should be afraid of it" school of dietary analysis is probably my least favorite.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I would respectfully disagree that the studies you reference show a "strong correlation" or that "they seem to have a very adverse effect". Because the thing with correlation is that you don't know which way the correlation goes. Does diet soda cause weight gain or do overweight people switch to diet soda? Is it possible overweight people switch to diet soda because it seems like an easy way to save calories, but then never change anything else so they just keep gaining weight? Is it possible people who drink diet soda feel like they now have some wiggle room since they saved some calories and so subconsciously eat a little more?
This is anecdotal and not at all related to my original post. Studies don't look at the one guy who went on a caloric deficient cycle and lost weight.
it looks at controlled groups.
It just so happens that the Aspartame you're vigorously defending has side unexpected long term side effects and it presented itself only in the control groups, which does suggest a correlation.Also, if artificial sweeteners raise blood sugar levels and therefore stimulate insulin production, why have the thousands and thousands of diabetics who routinely test their blood glucose levels multiple times a day not reported the fact that the diet soda the ADA suggests they drink is actually causing blood sugar to rise?
Again, comprehension is very important here.
The suggested correlation between long term consumption of Aspartame vs Insulin resistance by way of bacterium imbalance is verified in mice with similar effects in human controlled groups.
Neither the studies, nor I, ever suggested that your blood sugar goes up with every sip.The problem with the studies done on humans is that it is literally impossible to control all the other variables than the one you are testing. There are some people who have been drinking diet soda since they were children, others who switch to it for any number of reasons at different points in their lives. Often, people switch to artificial sweeteners thinking that's all they need to do. Other times people switch to diet soda while making full lifestyle changes. What other psychological, diet, and exercise changes did those pregnant women and elderly people make? Is it possible those other factors, which perhaps are correlated with choosing diet soda, actually caused the negative weight result? No way to tell.
By your logic, there's no point in doing any studies.
Yes, it is possible. But, in this case, Aspartame consumption is the only constant in all of the control groups.
Particularly in Diet or Zero Calorie drinks.
The studies are then verified within animal testing.
Both show the same results with animals being the absolute controlled environment and human studies being data collection, which is flawed, but even if you remove the top and bottom 15% of the results, which are usually the variants, the group study is still valid.
Scientists can't put people in cages to control them 24/7, so the duplication of results obtained in animals is the strong correlation.The fact is, there is no biological or chemical reason currently known as to how or why artificial sweeteners could actually cause weight gain, and there are myriad confounding uncontrolled variables that make population studies like the ones you cited useless. And there are tons of people here who are carefully tracking their calories, drinking diet soda and putting artificial sweetener in their tea and coffee, and losing weight exactly as expected.
Everyone loves a good bogey man, so the idea that artificial sweeteners are some kind of a problem will most likely continue. They are some of, if not the, most studied food additives in history, in wide use for decades, with no definitive proof of any actual negatives.
No. That is not the fact.
There's lack of comprehension of how studies work and that's the reason why people believe that "smelling farts helps to prevent cancer". It was on the Today Show, so it must be right.
People who were exposed to Asbestos, developed cancer over years of exposure.
People who smoke cigarrettes, have a higher risk of lung cancer... But wait... They drive, so they are exposed to carbon monoxide. In the 60s, Camel Cigarettes were the most recommended by doctors... Go figure.
Hexavalent Chromium doesn't cause cancer, or miscarriage, or malformation in babies with one sip, but the long term exposure in Hinckley, CA condemned half a city to a lifetime in the hospital... You may have seen that in a movie. Julia Roberts starred in it.
Now, all of these people ate food for years, good and bad food, they drove cars, they may or may not have had lead paint exposure or Asbestos exposure and some of them even used drugs.
Should we call the scientists at the American Cancer Institute and tell them they don't know "shiznitz".
In the end, all of this won't matter, because you love the taste of Coke Zero.
And I haven't even talked about the rest of the ingredients:
Carbonated water, caramel color, phosphoric acid, aspartame, potassium benzoate, natural flavors, potassium citrate, acesulfame potassium, caffeine.
I will stop here, because there's no longer a point in arguing.
As I said before. Drink whatever you want.
For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?
It sounds scary?
The "I don't know what it is, so you should be afraid of it" school of dietary analysis is probably my least favorite.
Right? The one time when Google probably is your friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_citrate5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?
Good Question.
Potassium Citrate is a chemical compound used to reduce acidity.
In medicine it can be used to reduce the effects of Gout and the formation of Kidney Stones.
It is intended for short term use to control specific symptoms.
Long term exposure may cause hyperkalemia (Excessive Potassium in the Blood). Hyperkalemia symptoms are dizzyness, irregular heart rhythm, mood swings and confusion, numbness and tingling sensations etc.
Basically, you're drinking an Anti-Corrosive, although very mild, because Coke Zero tastes good.
Put 10 years of exposure into it, that's when problems exacerbate.
17 -
janejellyroll wrote: »For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?
Good Question.
Potassium Citrate is a chemical compound used to reduce acidity.
In medicine it can be used to reduce the effects of Gout and the formation of Kidney Stones.
It is intended for short term use to control specific symptoms.
Long term exposure may cause hyperkalemia (Excessive Potassium in the Blood). Hyperkalemia symptoms are dizzyness, irregular heart rhythm, mood swings and confusion, numbness and tingling sensations etc.
Basically, you're drinking an Anti-Corrosive, although very mild, because Coke Zero tastes good.
Put 10 years of exposure into it, that's when problems exacerbate.
Proof?2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?
Good Question.
Potassium Citrate is a chemical compound used to reduce acidity.
In medicine it can be used to reduce the effects of Gout and the formation of Kidney Stones.
It is intended for short term use to control specific symptoms.
Long term exposure may cause hyperkalemia (Excessive Potassium in the Blood). Hyperkalemia symptoms are dizzyness, irregular heart rhythm, mood swings and confusion, numbness and tingling sensations etc.
Basically, you're drinking an Anti-Corrosive, although very mild, because Coke Zero tastes good.
Put 10 years of exposure into it, that's when problems exacerbate.
Long term exposure to the amounts typically found in a soda cause problems after ten years? What is the source for that claim?7 -
From my own n=1 observations, a lot of fat people who are drinking diet sodas are washing down whole pizzas, triple bacon cheeseburgers, and extra large fries. I think a lot of people think the fact that they are drinking the diet soda trumps those other things...that's why they're fat.
I drink diet soda...not fat. I was fat when I was drinking regular soda...lost 40 Lbs with diet soda in my life.
The problem with correlation studies is that other variables aren't controlled.7 -
I honestly don't know if actual doctors share your concerns about potassium citrate. It's considered safe enough that it was given in a blind trial to test impact on bone health. They don't do that with things they think may cause damage. In fact, the summary for the study describes it like this: "Readily available, safe, and easily administered in an oral form, potassium citrate has the potential to improve skeletal health. . . . "
Readily available and safe.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3578058/9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »The "I don't know what it is, so you should be afraid of it" school of dietary analysis is probably my least favorite.
Up until the 70s, consumer products including christmas decorations and baby powder contained a serpentine mineral called Chrysotile. People didn't know about it, they read mineral, so they assumed it was ok.
The serpentine mineral Chrysotile is commonly known as White Asbestos.
The "I don't know what it is, so you should be afraid of it" school of dietary analysis sucks, but then again, it is right every now and then.12 -
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janejellyroll wrote: »The "I don't know what it is, so you should be afraid of it" school of dietary analysis is probably my least favorite.
Up until the 70s, consumer products including christmas decorations and baby powder contained a serpentine mineral called Chrysotile. People didn't know about it, they read mineral, so they assumed it was ok.
The serpentine mineral Chrysotile is commonly known as White Asbestos.
The "I don't know what it is, so you should be afraid of it" school of dietary analysis sucks, but then again, it is right every now and then.
You're assuming the only alternative to being afraid of the unknown is blindly embracing everything unknown.
I prefer to find out what something is and then make my consumption decisions based on that.9 -
This content has been removed.
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My electrolytes were very low post op because of vomiting and my surgeon suggested I drink coke zero for the phosphoric acid instead of drinking water with phosphate tablets dissolved in it.8
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janejellyroll wrote: »I honestly don't know if actual doctors share your concerns about potassium citrate. It's considered safe enough that it was given in a blind trial to test impact on bone health. They don't do that with things they think may cause damage. In fact, the summary for the study describes it like this: "Readily available, safe, and easily administered in an oral form, potassium citrate has the potential to improve skeletal health. . . . "
Readily available and safe.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3578058/
Yes... And also used to treat a condition.
Kind of like taking an aspirin to control clotting. It is given to treat a condition with the understanding that it is reasonably safe.
one of the possible effects of the long term use of aspirin, is hemorrhagic stroke.
That's the danger of reading and not understanding.
Also, don't make the mistake of thinking no one else has a degree.18 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I honestly don't know if actual doctors share your concerns about potassium citrate. It's considered safe enough that it was given in a blind trial to test impact on bone health. They don't do that with things they think may cause damage. In fact, the summary for the study describes it like this: "Readily available, safe, and easily administered in an oral form, potassium citrate has the potential to improve skeletal health. . . . "
Readily available and safe.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3578058/
Yes... And also used to treat a condition.
Kind of like taking an aspirin to control clotting. It is given to treat a condition with the understanding that it is reasonably safe.
one of the possible effects of the long term use of aspirin, is hemorrhagic stroke.
That's the danger of reading and not understanding.
Also, don't make the mistake of thinking no one else has a degree.
The source I quoted said "safe." If you're arguing that it is unsafe, what are you based that conclusion on?
Who said anything about someone having or not having a degree? What does that have to do with whether or not doctors consider potassium citrate to be safe enough to use in a blind study to test the effect on bone health? Can we make an agreement to stay somewhat on topic?6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »The "I don't know what it is, so you should be afraid of it" school of dietary analysis is probably my least favorite.
Up until the 70s, consumer products including christmas decorations and baby powder contained a serpentine mineral called Chrysotile. People didn't know about it, they read mineral, so they assumed it was ok.
The serpentine mineral Chrysotile is commonly known as White Asbestos.
The "I don't know what it is, so you should be afraid of it" school of dietary analysis sucks, but then again, it is right every now and then.
You're assuming the only alternative to being afraid of the unknown is blindly embracing everything unknown.
I prefer to find out what something is and then make my consumption decisions based on that.
That's interesting, because you first attempted to mock someone.
And are now attempting to bequiksylver296 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?
Good Question.
Potassium Citrate is a chemical compound used to reduce acidity.
In medicine it can be used to reduce the effects of Gout and the formation of Kidney Stones.
It is intended for short term use to control specific symptoms.
Long term exposure may cause hyperkalemia (Excessive Potassium in the Blood). Hyperkalemia symptoms are dizzyness, irregular heart rhythm, mood swings and confusion, numbness and tingling sensations etc.
Basically, you're drinking an Anti-Corrosive, although very mild, because Coke Zero tastes good.
Put 10 years of exposure into it, that's when problems exacerbate.
Proof?
Pick up a Potassium Citrate based controlled compound and read the drug description leaflet.
I should list all of the side effects and if you pickup one that is prescription based in the US, it should also list the possible long term side effects.
Beyond that, you can ask your doctor to show it to you in his BMA or Prescription Guide. Every doctor should have one.8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »The "I don't know what it is, so you should be afraid of it" school of dietary analysis is probably my least favorite.
Up until the 70s, consumer products including christmas decorations and baby powder contained a serpentine mineral called Chrysotile. People didn't know about it, they read mineral, so they assumed it was ok.
The serpentine mineral Chrysotile is commonly known as White Asbestos.
The "I don't know what it is, so you should be afraid of it" school of dietary analysis sucks, but then again, it is right every now and then.
You're assuming the only alternative to being afraid of the unknown is blindly embracing everything unknown.
I prefer to find out what something is and then make my consumption decisions based on that.
That's interesting, because you first attempted to mock someone.
And are now attempting to bequiksylver296 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?
Good Question.
Potassium Citrate is a chemical compound used to reduce acidity.
In medicine it can be used to reduce the effects of Gout and the formation of Kidney Stones.
It is intended for short term use to control specific symptoms.
Long term exposure may cause hyperkalemia (Excessive Potassium in the Blood). Hyperkalemia symptoms are dizzyness, irregular heart rhythm, mood swings and confusion, numbness and tingling sensations etc.
Basically, you're drinking an Anti-Corrosive, although very mild, because Coke Zero tastes good.
Put 10 years of exposure into it, that's when problems exacerbate.
Proof?
Pick up a Potassium Citrate based controlled compound and read the drug description leaflet.
I should list all of the side effects and if you pickup one that is prescription based in the US, it should also list the possible long term side effects.
Beyond that, you can ask your doctor to show it to you in his BMA or Prescription Guide. Every doctor should have one.
I'm sorry, if this is directed to me, I have no idea what you mean by this. What exactly do you find interesting?
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »The "I don't know what it is, so you should be afraid of it" school of dietary analysis is probably my least favorite.
Up until the 70s, consumer products including christmas decorations and baby powder contained a serpentine mineral called Chrysotile. People didn't know about it, they read mineral, so they assumed it was ok.
The serpentine mineral Chrysotile is commonly known as White Asbestos.
The "I don't know what it is, so you should be afraid of it" school of dietary analysis sucks, but then again, it is right every now and then.
You're assuming the only alternative to being afraid of the unknown is blindly embracing everything unknown.
I prefer to find out what something is and then make my consumption decisions based on that.
That's interesting, because you first attempted to mock someone.
And are now attempting to bequiksylver296 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?
Good Question.
Potassium Citrate is a chemical compound used to reduce acidity.
In medicine it can be used to reduce the effects of Gout and the formation of Kidney Stones.
It is intended for short term use to control specific symptoms.
Long term exposure may cause hyperkalemia (Excessive Potassium in the Blood). Hyperkalemia symptoms are dizzyness, irregular heart rhythm, mood swings and confusion, numbness and tingling sensations etc.
Basically, you're drinking an Anti-Corrosive, although very mild, because Coke Zero tastes good.
Put 10 years of exposure into it, that's when problems exacerbate.
Proof?
Pick up a Potassium Citrate based controlled compound and read the drug description leaflet.
I should list all of the side effects and if you pickup one that is prescription based in the US, it should also list the possible long term side effects.
Beyond that, you can ask your doctor to show it to you in his BMA or Prescription Guide. Every doctor should have one.
A "Potassium Citrate based controlled compound" is not Potassium Citrate. I can assure you that the coca cola company does not pour crushed pills into its cola.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I honestly don't know if actual doctors share your concerns about potassium citrate. It's considered safe enough that it was given in a blind trial to test impact on bone health. They don't do that with things they think may cause damage. In fact, the summary for the study describes it like this: "Readily available, safe, and easily administered in an oral form, potassium citrate has the potential to improve skeletal health. . . . "
Readily available and safe.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3578058/
Yes... And also used to treat a condition.
Kind of like taking an aspirin to control clotting. It is given to treat a condition with the understanding that it is reasonably safe.
one of the possible effects of the long term use of aspirin, is hemorrhagic stroke.
That's the danger of reading and not understanding.
Also, don't make the mistake of thinking no one else has a degree.
The source I quoted said "safe." If you're arguing that it is unsafe, what are you based that conclusion on?
Who said anything about someone having or not having a degree? What does that have to do with whether or not doctors consider potassium citrate to be safe enough to use in a blind study to test the effect on bone health? Can we make an agreement to stay somewhat on topic?
The "degree's" piece is related to this statement. "I honestly don't know if actual doctors share your concerns about potassium citrate."
Also, I'm not arguing that it is unsafe...
I am telling you that you did not understand what is written and I guarantee you did not read the whole thing especially, because the webpage you've posted contains the definitions, descriptions and conclusions.
The complete data is not available and it isn't even relevant.
The whole point here is that this particular chemical compounds has been observed to cause some particular side effects. You can read the side effects and long term side effects on google if you don't believe what I wrote.
Now, it is generally safe and particularly beneficial when treating a specific condition.
The benefits outweigh the possible long term side effects.
However, when you use it daily, for no specific reason, all you get is the possible side effects.
Again, Coke tastes delicious. I don't drink it, but I love it.
All I'm saying here is that if you didn't know i contained these compounds, now you do.
Whether or not that's going to have any impact on what you put in your body, I don't know.
As I said before, Drink whatever you want.
11 -
I usually have 0-2 Coke Zeros a day, depending on what's up. I also like Pepsi max @JBApplebee, but it's not as available as Coke Zero is to me, and I'll choose CZ over PM in the grocery store if I'm buying a 12 pack (unless there's a great sale or coupon). I was a HUGE Pepsi drinker (2-3 cans a day) before weight loss, so I'm just a soda fan in general. I drink a crapton of sparkling water, but I still love a brown and bubbly sweet drink.0
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janejellyroll wrote: »For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?
Good Question.
Potassium Citrate is a chemical compound used to reduce acidity.
In medicine it can be used to reduce the effects of Gout and the formation of Kidney Stones.
It is intended for short term use to control specific symptoms.
Long term exposure may cause hyperkalemia (Excessive Potassium in the Blood). Hyperkalemia symptoms are dizzyness, irregular heart rhythm, mood swings and confusion, numbness and tingling sensations etc.
Basically, you're drinking an Anti-Corrosive, although very mild, because Coke Zero tastes good.
Put 10 years of exposure into it, that's when problems exacerbate.
I've been drinking diet soda for a lot longer than 10 years and amazingly I'm still alive (and in excellent health). Go figure
1 -
stevencloser wrote: »
A "Potassium Citrate based controlled compound" is not Potassium Citrate. I can assure you that the coca cola company does not pour crushed pills into its cola.
Ok... let me explain... AGAIN.
Every chemical compound present in an FDA approved food item, supplement, medicine etc has had to be demonstrated to be "Generally Safe for Human Consumption"
That means it is a controlled compound. Period.
So, if you want to know every possible effect, you can read about drug description leaflet for any drug or supplement that is Potassium Citrate based.
That's all.
No one is saying that drinking diet coke is the equivalent of picking up your grandma's diet pills and smoking them in a pipe.
(The last piece was a joke, BTW, Just in case it wasn't clear)8 -
Love the ignore button! However, wish it would also work when the offender is quoted...2
-
janejellyroll wrote: »For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?
Good Question.
Potassium Citrate is a chemical compound used to reduce acidity.
In medicine it can be used to reduce the effects of Gout and the formation of Kidney Stones.
It is intended for short term use to control specific symptoms.
Long term exposure may cause hyperkalemia (Excessive Potassium in the Blood). Hyperkalemia symptoms are dizzyness, irregular heart rhythm, mood swings and confusion, numbness and tingling sensations etc.
Basically, you're drinking an Anti-Corrosive, although very mild, because Coke Zero tastes good.
Put 10 years of exposure into it, that's when problems exacerbate.
I've been drinking diet soda for a lot longer than 10 years and amazingly I'm still alive (and in excellent health). Go figure
Good for you.
It didn't make you better at context interpretation thou, cause you sure missed the point.
10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I honestly don't know if actual doctors share your concerns about potassium citrate. It's considered safe enough that it was given in a blind trial to test impact on bone health. They don't do that with things they think may cause damage. In fact, the summary for the study describes it like this: "Readily available, safe, and easily administered in an oral form, potassium citrate has the potential to improve skeletal health. . . . "
Readily available and safe.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3578058/
Yes... And also used to treat a condition.
Kind of like taking an aspirin to control clotting. It is given to treat a condition with the understanding that it is reasonably safe.
one of the possible effects of the long term use of aspirin, is hemorrhagic stroke.
That's the danger of reading and not understanding.
Also, don't make the mistake of thinking no one else has a degree.
The source I quoted said "safe." If you're arguing that it is unsafe, what are you based that conclusion on?
Who said anything about someone having or not having a degree? What does that have to do with whether or not doctors consider potassium citrate to be safe enough to use in a blind study to test the effect on bone health? Can we make an agreement to stay somewhat on topic?
The "degree's" piece is related to this statement. "I honestly don't know if actual doctors share your concerns about potassium citrate."
Also, I'm not arguing that it is unsafe...
I am telling you that you did not understand what is written and I guarantee you did not read the whole thing especially, because the webpage you've posted contains the definitions, descriptions and conclusions.
The complete data is not available and it isn't even relevant.
The whole point here is that this particular chemical compounds has been observed to cause some particular side effects. You can read the side effects and long term side effects on google if you don't believe what I wrote.
Now, it is generally safe and particularly beneficial when treating a specific condition.
The benefits outweigh the possible long term side effects.
However, when you use it daily, for no specific reason, all you get is the possible side effects.
Again, Coke tastes delicious. I don't drink it, but I love it.
All I'm saying here is that if you didn't know i contained these compounds, now you do.
Whether or not that's going to have any impact on what you put in your body, I don't know.
As I said before, Drink whatever you want.
It's not assuming you don't have a degree, it's assuming that you aren't a licensed medical doctor. Those are two completely different things.
The entire study isn't relevant to the point I'm making (we're not talking about the conclusions for bone health). I posted that abstract for one specific reason -- that potassium citrate was described as "safe" in it and the people conducting the study considered it safe enough to use in a double-blind study to see if it had an impact on bone health. They wouldn't have done that with a substance they considered harmful. The rest of the study would be relevant if we were having a different type of conversation. I'm sorry I didn't put that in better context for you -- I assumed my other comments would make that clear. I hope now you better understand why I posted the link to that abstract -- it wasn't to highlight the study overall, just the language in that portion and their justification for studying the substance (again, that it was judged to be "safe").
I did know that it contained those ingredients because I typically read the ingredients for foods I choose to consume and look up any that I'm not familiar with. Why would you assume that I need education from you in order to decide what to consume or that you communicating ingredients that I'm already aware of would impact my decisions? Frankly, it seems like you're vastly overestimating how much people think of your opinion.
Whether or not Coke is delicious is a completely different conversation from whether or not it is dangerous. You keep trying to sow doubt with these vague little statements, but you still haven't posted anything concrete. Why should anything you write have an impact on what people choose to put in their bodies?
6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »For the bolded ingredients, why did you bold them? What's wrong with, say, potassium citrate?
Good Question.
Potassium Citrate is a chemical compound used to reduce acidity.
In medicine it can be used to reduce the effects of Gout and the formation of Kidney Stones.
It is intended for short term use to control specific symptoms.
Long term exposure may cause hyperkalemia (Excessive Potassium in the Blood). Hyperkalemia symptoms are dizzyness, irregular heart rhythm, mood swings and confusion, numbness and tingling sensations etc.
Basically, you're drinking an Anti-Corrosive, although very mild, because Coke Zero tastes good.
Put 10 years of exposure into it, that's when problems exacerbate.
I've been drinking diet soda for a lot longer than 10 years and amazingly I'm still alive (and in excellent health). Go figure
Good for you.
It didn't make you better at context interpretation thou, cause you sure missed the point.
You wrote this: "Put 10 years of exposure into it, that's when problems exacerbate."
So someone pointing out that many, many people have more than ten years of exposure without the problems you are warning about is absolutely relevant.8 -
stevencloser wrote: »
A "Potassium Citrate based controlled compound" is not Potassium Citrate. I can assure you that the coca cola company does not pour crushed pills into its cola.
Ok... let me explain... AGAIN.
Every chemical compound present in an FDA approved food item, supplement, medicine etc has had to be demonstrated to be "Generally Safe for Human Consumption"
That means it is a controlled compound. Period.
So, if you want to know every possible effect, you can read about drug description leaflet for any drug or supplement that is Potassium Citrate based.
That's all.
Are we taking context and dosage into account, or nah?
6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »From my own n=1 observations, a lot of fat people who are drinking diet sodas are washing down whole pizzas, triple bacon cheeseburgers, and extra large fries. I think a lot of people think the fact that they are drinking the diet soda trumps those other things...that's why they're fat.
I drink diet soda...not fat. I was fat when I was drinking regular soda...lost 40 Lbs with diet soda in my life.
The problem with correlation studies is that other variables aren't controlled.
Nobody really thinks that. I say that as someone who has from time to time washed down most of a pizza with Diet Pepsi. Fat people aren't stupid, you know. It's just a relatively painless way to save some calories for people who have other issues with food. I don't know if you mean to come off as contemptuous toward the overweight, but it kind of sounds that way to me.
0
This discussion has been closed.
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