Coke zero
Replies
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Ok... let me explain... AGAIN.
Every chemical compound present in an FDA approved food item, supplement, medicine etc has had to be demonstrated to be "Generally Safe for Human Consumption"
That means it is a controlled compound. Period.
So, if you want to know every possible effect, you can read about drug description leaflet for any drug or supplement that is Potassium Citrate based.
That's all.
No one is saying that drinking diet coke is the equivalent of picking up your grandma's diet pills and smoking them in a pipe.
(The last piece was a joke, BTW, Just in case it wasn't clear)
First off it's "Generally Recognized as Safe" AKA GRAS. if you're going to pontificate, be accurate. Second there's no pamphlet. It's a paragraph§184.1625 Potassium citrate.
(a) Potassium citrate (C6H5K3O7·H2O, CAS Reg. No. 006100-0905-096) is the potassium salt of citric acid. It is prepared by neutralizing citric acid with potassium hydroxide or potassium carbonate. It occurs as transparent crystals or a white granular powder, is odorless and deliquescent, and contains one mole of water per mole of potassium citrate.
(b) The ingredient meets the specifications of the Food Chemicals Codex, 3d ed. (1981), p. 242, which is incorporated by reference in accordance with 5 U.S.C. 552(a) and 1 CFR part 51. Copies are available from the National Academy Press, 2101 Constitution Ave. NW., Washington, DC 20418, and the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition (HFS-200), 5001 Campus Dr., College Park, MD 20740, or may be examined at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). For information on the availability of this material at NARA, call 202-741-6030, or go to: http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/code_of_federal_regulations/ibr_locations.html.
(c) In accordance with §184.1(b)(1), the ingredient is used in food with no limitation other than current good manufacturing practice.
(d) Prior sanctions for this ingredient different from the uses established in this section, or different from those set forth in part 181 of this chapter, do not exist or have been waived.
[59 FR 63896, Dec. 12, 1994]
Bolded for emphasis7 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
First off it's "Generally Recognized as Safe" AKA GRAS. if you're going to pontificate, be accurate. Second there's no pamphlet. It's a paragraph
But, but, but...do you have a degree?!? :huh:
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janejellyroll wrote: »
It's not assuming you don't have a degree, it's assuming that you aren't a licensed medical doctor. Those are two completely different things.
The entire study isn't relevant to the point I'm making (we're not talking about the conclusions for bone health). I posted that abstract for one specific reason -- that potassium citrate was described as "safe" in it and the people conducting the study considered it safe enough to use in a double-blind study to see if it had an impact on bone health. They wouldn't have done that with a substance they considered harmful. The rest of the study would be relevant if we were having a different type of conversation. I'm sorry I didn't put that in better context for you -- I assumed my other comments would make that clear. I hope now you better understand why I posted the link to that abstract -- it wasn't to highlight the study overall, just the language in that portion and their justification for studying the substance (again, that it was judged to be "safe").
I did know that it contained those ingredients because I typically read the ingredients for foods I choose to consume and look up any that I'm not familiar with. Why would you assume that I need education from you in order to decide what to consume or that you communicating ingredients that I'm already aware of would impact my decisions? Frankly, it seems like you're vastly overestimating how much people think of your opinion.
Whether or not Coke is delicious is a completely different conversation from whether or not it is dangerous. You keep trying to sow doubt with these vague little statements, but you still haven't posted anything concrete. Why should anything you write have an impact on what people choose to put in their bodies?
[/quote]
Honestly, i don't care about your opinion. You quoted me and I responded.
But just in case you're curious, try to find out how long this study went on for and see if it qualifies as a "long term"
Oh... and one more thing... The double blind group also signed the release forms.
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quiksylver296 wrote: »
I have several. None of which are relevant to the topic at hand.
Although I'm also literate(since I was 6) which is relevant to the topic at hand. Since I've been reading journals recreationally since before I was a teenager, so I've got some background in critical study of scientific and technical writing.
Edited to clarify: I first started reading technical and scientific journals recreationally in early middle school, I was 11 or 12 not 6.3 -
Honestly, i don't care about your opinion. You quoted me and I responded.
But just in case you're curious, try to find out how long this study went on for and see if it qualifies as a "long term"
Oh... and one more thing... The double blind group also signed the release forms.
I'd like to think you understand that was a study of potassium citrate's impact on bone health and not a study of the overall safety of potassium citrate, but I can't tell if you're just determined to respond in bad faith or just really bad at reading.
What do release forms have to do with it? Release forms don't allow researchers to give people unsafe substances in studies of this type. Even if it did (and it doesn't), the researchers wouldn't turn around and describe the substance as safe.
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quiksylver296 wrote: »
I know it was sarcastic, but yes...
I have a microbiology degree from USF (As part of my prerequisites) and a post graduation in bio-chemistry.
So, while I may not be a doctor, I learned a thing or two about interpreting research
And, the next MCAT is in the fall.. SO it may take a while.3 -
I know it was sarcastic, but yes...
I have a microbiology degree from USF (As part of my prerequisites) and a post graduation in bio-chemistry.
So, while I may not be a doctor, I learned a thing or two about interpreting research
And, the next MCAT is in the fall.. SO it may take a while.
A tip in interpreting message boards: that question was directed at someone else.8 -
I know it was sarcastic, but yes...
I have a microbiology degree from USF (As part of my prerequisites) and a post graduation in bio-chemistry.
So, while I may not be a doctor, I learned a thing or two about interpreting research
And, the next MCAT is in the fall.. SO it may take a while.
Good luck with that...2 -
Are we all trotting out our degrees?3
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quiksylver296 wrote: »Are we all trotting out our degrees?
Does anyone know what today is?SpoilerThat's right, it's Friday9 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »Are we all trotting out our degrees?
Why? Are you doubting that I have them? Because I assure you, my degrees are the greatest and I definitely definitely have them.8 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
I know. Fun, huh?3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
Why? Are you doubting that I have them? Because I assure you, my degrees are the greatest and I definitely definitely have them.
Not at all! You're the greatest, bestest and smartestest.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
I'd like to think you understand that was a study of potassium citrate's impact on bone health and not a study of the overall safety of potassium citrate, but I can't tell if you're just determined to respond in bad faith or just really bad at reading.
What do release forms have to do with it? Release forms don't allow researchers to give people unsafe substances in studies of this type. Even if it did (and it doesn't), the researchers wouldn't turn around and describe the substance as safe.
1 - The whole discussion was about long term consumption. This study doesn't qualify.
2 - A Short term study was not about bone health, it was about one specific causation.
3 - The last line of the Abstract reads: Longer term trials with definitive outcomes such as bone density and fracture are needed. That, in other words mean, it helped here, but we don't know what it will do to the body 5 years from now.
4 - There is an extensive list of compounds that were found to not be safe AFTER the research, therefore, the Release forms do apply. They are an Insurance Requirement which all labs conducting research must have.
5 - Just because a substance is described as safe, it does not mean it is free from side effects. Short and Long Term.
I understand it's hard to be told that things you eat or drink everyday may not be good for you, sucks.
I am not trying to offend, nor act in bad faith.
I am just saying that "Safe" has a broad definition in research.
As in... In controlled dietary amounts, potassium prevents muscle cramps, but in large amounts, it can stop your heart.11 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »Are we all trotting out our degrees?
Nope... But you did ask and since I've been reminded here(Not by you) that I am not a doctor and you know, not qualified at all to speak or interpret a study, I popped the card.
Not my finest moment thou... I agree there.2 -
Did we ever answer the question about context and dosage?
I'm enjoying my dose as we chat.
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quiksylver296 wrote: »Did we ever answer the question about context and dosage?
I'm enjoying my dose as we chat.
And that's "Good Night" to everyone.3 -
1 - The whole discussion was about long term consumption. This study doesn't qualify.
2 - A Short term study was not about bone health, it was about one specific causation.
3 - The last line of the Abstract reads: Longer term trials with definitive outcomes such as bone density and fracture are needed. That, in other words mean, it helped here, but we don't know what it will do to the body 5 years from now.
4 - There is an extensive list of compounds that were found to not be safe AFTER the research, therefore, the Release forms do apply. They are an Insurance Requirement which all labs conducting research must have.
5 - Just because a substance is described as safe, it does not mean it is free from side effects. Short and Long Term.
I understand it's hard to be told that things you eat or drink everyday may not be good for you, sucks.
I am not trying to offend, nor act in bad faith.
I am just saying that "Safe" has a broad definition in research.
As in... In controlled dietary amounts, potassium prevents muscle cramps, but in large amounts, it can stop your heart.
I'm really sorry that I went over your head and you thought I was trying to have a conversation about bone health instead of the statement that potassium citrate was safe. It wasn't what I was doing and I should have started with more basic information, something that would have caused less confusion for you about what I was attempting to communicate.
This has nothing to do with things being "hard" for me. It might be hard if you had some actual evidence to support your claims and diet soda was something that was important to me. But you keep repeating that something is wrong with potassium citrate while not providing any evidence to support this (just vague threats about what will happen in ten years) -- how could that be hard to hear for any reasonable person who bases their decisions on actual information?
It's like if I kept telling you that using the gear shift in your car was bad for you and that you'd find out what I meant someday. Would you get worried? Well, maybe you would, I don't know. But I have a different standard for worry.
Believe me, nobody is offended by your statements that we'll somehow know what you're talking about in ten years although you can't possibly provide support for your claims now.
As far as you not acting in bad faith, if this is you discussing in good faith, good luck with the rest of your education.8 -
Aspartame breaks down as Methanol, Methanol then breaks into Formaldehyde. This happens with a ton of other stuff, including natural foods, such as bananas or tomatoes.
I would, however, be more worried about the correlation between "Zero Calorie" sodas and weight gain. That's the hidden trick.
This is where we started.
I'm questioning your educational claims, at this point.7 -
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Nope... But you did ask and since I've been reminded here(Not by you) that I am not a doctor and you know, not qualified at all to speak or interpret a study, I popped the card.
Not my finest moment thou... I agree there.
Except you've:
gotten terms wrong (particularly GRAS);
made at least one claim that is demonstrably false (specifically the "pamphlet" claim);
moved goalposts;
shown that you apparently don't understand the difference between a compound containing a particular chemical and the pure form of said chemical;
shown that you don't really understand correlations;
shown that you don't understand basic weight management;
only got part of the aspartame breakdown correct;
and not shown any actual evidence of your fear-mongering claims (the closest thing didn't show what you claimed it showed).
You know, fairly basic things someone with a degree in biochem should never get wrong.
So, yeah -
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Second that. Coke Zero + Kraken Spiced Rum = bliss.
this is my go to as well
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nickssweetheart wrote: »
Nobody really thinks that. I say that as someone who has from time to time washed down most of a pizza with Diet Pepsi. Fat people aren't stupid, you know. It's just a relatively painless way to save some calories for people who have other issues with food. I don't know if you mean to come off as contemptuous toward the overweight, but it kind of sounds that way to me.
@nickssweetheart
Dude...I was fat...
And while I was most certainly not stupid, I was completely ignorant of calories. I used to drink anywhere from 3-6 full sugar sodas daily and didn't give it a thought because it's a beverage...what harm could a beverage do? I used to cook with copious amounts of oil and butter and cream and had no clue how calorie dense they were...hell, I didn't even know what a calorie was. My go to lunch for ages was a drive through the taco bell to order a supreme combo with a burrito and taco supreme and then two additional bean burritos...I thought it was a pretty healthy lunch because beans. When I was being "good" I'd go to Sweet Tomatoes and get a salad and some soup...and dump about a gallon of ranch dressing and cheese on top.
You don't have to be stupid to be ignorant of something.
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I don't like Coke Zero enough to continue drinking it regularly if I were to see evidence that it would harm me. I am more than capable of comprehending scientific study and research language, as are many regular posters here, some of whom in fact make a living at scientific research and application. I am in fact generally an overly-cautious person, not too difficult to convince something is dangerous.
The "older" sweeteners like saccharine and aspartame have been on the market for decades, with no evidence of a clear link to weight gain or disease. The only reason studies are still being done on them is because of this sort of fear-mongering that gives far more weight to one or two diet surveys or demographic studies than they should be given, while ignoring other uncontrolled variables that don't fit the narrative.
Every month or so a new poster jumps into to one of these threads and cites the same handful of inconclusive or easily arguable research. Every time they end up moving the goalposts and telling us we're too uneducated/addicted/stupid to understand. I will continue to read through all this, looking to see if any new info becomes available, as I am fascinated by this subject. But considering the 60+ years of trying to prove the stuff is dangerous with no luck, I will continue to drink a few diet sodas a week without a second thought.
Now bagged lettuce on the other hand, that stuff'll kill you :drinker:6 -
My family like all the Zero drinks from Coke. Since I taught my wife how to make a Vanilla Cream Coke just like Sonic's with Coke Zero, she's happy to do so. And she's a lifetime Coca Cola addict.0
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quiksylver296 wrote: »Did we ever answer the question about context and dosage?
I'm enjoying my dose as we chat.
The only way to make that picture better is to make it a Cherry Coke Zero.2 -
BruceHedtke wrote: »
The only way to make that picture better is to make it a Cherry Coke Zero.
No. Vanilla.1 -
Second that. Coke Zero + Kraken Spiced Rum = bliss.
Can't wait to try .....less calories, more rum !1 -
JakedOnGreenBeers wrote: »
yay bringing the discussion back to a good place! lol
Yes !! I think I'll have a double with my coke zero after that scientific discussion ...whew !!1
This discussion has been closed.
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