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How do you feel about fasting?
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LeeshaSeal wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
Fasting most certainly starts autophagy. Here is one link to check out: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
Ok - so it does in mice (transgenic mice, no less)... did you read the study? The autophagy results were achieved with 24-48 hour water fasts, well beyond the range of IF.10 -
johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
The one time I looked for autophagy after people touted it as this amazing thing that's going to save your life thanks to fasting, I have not found any sources besides, I think, studies done in worms. That's also a problem.
I don't think you looked very hard. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
So mice, then.
That changes nothing.
That depends on how you look at things. The process of autophagy is only recently discovered and studied. It's the beginning of something that can be truly promising. All studies have to start somewhere and typically, they have to be successful on animals before moving to human trials. Weight loss aside, the idea that a process we can initiate can contribute to cancer, alzeihmers, Parkinsons, etc. prevention is inspiring to me. But if you want to dumb the whole thing down to a who's right and who's wrong about weight loss conversation, that's up to you.13 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
The one time I looked for autophagy after people touted it as this amazing thing that's going to save your life thanks to fasting, I have not found any sources besides, I think, studies done in worms. That's also a problem.
I don't think you looked very hard. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
From your link: "Our data lead us to speculate that sporadic fasting might represent a simple, safe and inexpensive means to promote this potentially therapeutic neuronal response."
Even the study authors don't think they've demonstrated what you seem to claim they have. They're just speculating.
And the study doesn't demonstrate anything about beneficial effects of autophagy, just suggests the speculation that "sporadic fasting" could enable neuronal autophagy, contrary to current "dogma" ("dogma" = widely held opinions that you disagree with). Also, unless they have their own special definition of "sporadic," even their "speculation" doesn't support IF on a regular, daily basis ("regular, daily" is not "sporadic" (occasional, irregular).11 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
Fasting most certainly starts autophagy. Here is one link to check out: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
Ok - so it does in mice (transgenic mice, no less)... did you read the study? The autophagy results were achieved with 24-48 hour water fasts, well beyond the range of IF.
Yes, mice. The research has to start somewhere and is very promising. It's relatively common to intersperse 24-48 fasts in a normal IF regimen. But yes, I have read that week-long fasts are where the true benefits for disease prevention come into play.16 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
The one time I looked for autophagy after people touted it as this amazing thing that's going to save your life thanks to fasting, I have not found any sources besides, I think, studies done in worms. That's also a problem.
I don't think you looked very hard. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
From your link: "Our data lead us to speculate that sporadic fasting might represent a simple, safe and inexpensive means to promote this potentially therapeutic neuronal response."
Even the study authors don't think they've demonstrated what you seem to claim they have. They're just speculating.
And the study doesn't demonstrate anything about beneficial effects of autophagy, just suggests the speculation that "sporadic fasting" could enable neuronal autophagy, contrary to current "dogma" ("dogma" = widely held opinions that you disagree with). Also, unless they have their own special definition of "sporadic," even their "speculation" doesn't support IF on a regular, daily basis ("regular, daily" is not "sporadic" (occasional, irregular).
As I've replied to other posters, the studies are relatively new (within the last 10 years). They have to start somewhere but their "speculations" are pretty promising. And, I posted one example that was easily found. It's not the only information out there. I'm not sure where your dogma comment is coming from but if it's because I'm discussing ideas that go against the grain, then okay. I prefer to be inspired by ideas that may prevent cancer and alzheimers - we aren't successfully winning that battle yet.
On a personal note, I've done CI/CO for nearly 2 decades. I'm 40 now and had my last baby at 38 and it is NOT working for me. I've logged in every day since January and I am personally not having success. I am trying something else and have been keeping my "friends" updated.15 -
LeeshaSeal - I said I wasn’t a nutritionist or a dietician, never said I didn’t have a formal education in health care; I actually work in oncology/cancer research. You cannot prevent cancer, or other types of diseases/co-morbities simply because you fast. There are ways to decrease your chances of specific ailments by eating healthy and remaining at a healthy weight, and avoiding certain toxins, ie cigarettes. Fasting can be beneficial for weight loss because it helps to restrict calories if the person has discipline (I don’t). But please don’t spread false propaganda on the medical benefits of starving yourself for hours/days.21
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LeeshaSeal wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
Fasting most certainly starts autophagy. Here is one link to check out: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/LeeshaSeal wrote: »They have to start somewhere but their "speculations" are pretty promising.
Nice backpedal.
Promising speculation based on transgenic mice is a far cry from "most certainly"
15 -
I have "fasted" for years, not intentionally though. I just hate eating breakfast so the time between my last and first meal is often 12-16 hours. I have no Medical data that show that i have any diffrent values than someone that eat breakfast, neither for the good or bad direction. My doctor says im normally healthy so the whole fasting thing i feel is just humbug and the only thing that makes it benifitial is that you have less time to get the same amount of calories in resulting in easier weight loss.1
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LeeshaSeal wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
Fasting most certainly starts autophagy. Here is one link to check out: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
Ok - so it does in mice (transgenic mice, no less)... did you read the study? The autophagy results were achieved with 24-48 hour water fasts, well beyond the range of IF.
Yes, mice. The research has to start somewhere and is very promising. It's relatively common to intersperse 24-48 fasts in a normal IF regimen. But yes, I have read that week-long fasts are where the true benefits for disease prevention come into play.
When you convert mice years to human years, that 24-48 hours becomes a very long time. Someone here had done the math and it was something like 10 years of fasting to add 10 years onto your life. Seems kinda miserable to me.11 -
johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
Fasting most certainly starts autophagy. Here is one link to check out: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/LeeshaSeal wrote: »They have to start somewhere but their "speculations" are pretty promising.
Nice backpedal.
Promising speculation based on transgenic mice is a far cry from "most certainly"
I think you're rude. You are missing my point.20 -
LeeshaSeal - I said I wasn’t a nutritionist or a dietician, never said I didn’t have a formal education in health care; I actually work in oncology/cancer research. You cannot prevent cancer, or other types of diseases/co-morbities simply because you fast. There are ways to decrease your chances of specific ailments by eating healthy and remaining at a healthy weight, and avoiding certain toxins, ie cigarettes. Fasting can be beneficial for weight loss because it helps to restrict calories if the person has discipline (I don’t). But please don’t spread false propaganda on the medical benefits of starving yourself for hours/days.
I didn't say that because I choose to fast that I won't have cancer. What I did say is that there studies out there that link fasting with autophagy and disease prevention. Discussing these things is not espousing the ideas as concrete truth, meaning that I'm not spreading "false propaganda". I get that it didn't work for you. Maybe I will be in the same boat but time will tell.14 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
The one time I looked for autophagy after people touted it as this amazing thing that's going to save your life thanks to fasting, I have not found any sources besides, I think, studies done in worms. That's also a problem.
I don't think you looked very hard. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
So mice, then.
That changes nothing.
That depends on how you look at things. The process of autophagy is only recently discovered and studied. It's the beginning of something that can be truly promising. All studies have to start somewhere and typically, they have to be successful on animals before moving to human trials. Weight loss aside, the idea that a process we can initiate can contribute to cancer, alzeihmers, Parkinsons, etc. prevention is inspiring to me. But if you want to dumb the whole thing down to a who's right and who's wrong about weight loss conversation, that's up to you.
you never addressed my earlier question to you - you say IF causes weight loss - how is it that people use IF to lose/gain/maintain weight if calorie deficit has nothing to do with it???5 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
The one time I looked for autophagy after people touted it as this amazing thing that's going to save your life thanks to fasting, I have not found any sources besides, I think, studies done in worms. That's also a problem.
I don't think you looked very hard. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
From your link: "Our data lead us to speculate that sporadic fasting might represent a simple, safe and inexpensive means to promote this potentially therapeutic neuronal response."
Even the study authors don't think they've demonstrated what you seem to claim they have. They're just speculating.
And the study doesn't demonstrate anything about beneficial effects of autophagy, just suggests the speculation that "sporadic fasting" could enable neuronal autophagy, contrary to current "dogma" ("dogma" = widely held opinions that you disagree with). Also, unless they have their own special definition of "sporadic," even their "speculation" doesn't support IF on a regular, daily basis ("regular, daily" is not "sporadic" (occasional, irregular).
As I've replied to other posters, the studies are relatively new (within the last 10 years). They have to start somewhere but their "speculations" are pretty promising. And, I posted one example that was easily found. It's not the only information out there. I'm not sure where your dogma comment is coming from but if it's because I'm discussing ideas that go against the grain, then okay. I prefer to be inspired by ideas that may prevent cancer and alzheimers - we aren't successfully winning that battle yet.
On a personal note, I've done CI/CO for nearly 2 decades. I'm 40 now and had my last baby at 38 and it is NOT working for me. I've logged in every day since January and I am personally not having success. I am trying something else and have been keeping my "friends" updated.
what do you mean when you say CICO doesn't work for you? you believe you are eating at a calorie SURPLUS now and losing weight????7 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
The one time I looked for autophagy after people touted it as this amazing thing that's going to save your life thanks to fasting, I have not found any sources besides, I think, studies done in worms. That's also a problem.
I don't think you looked very hard. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
So mice, then.
That changes nothing.
That depends on how you look at things. The process of autophagy is only recently discovered and studied. It's the beginning of something that can be truly promising. All studies have to start somewhere and typically, they have to be successful on animals before moving to human trials. Weight loss aside, the idea that a process we can initiate can contribute to cancer, alzeihmers, Parkinsons, etc. prevention is inspiring to me. But if you want to dumb the whole thing down to a who's right and who's wrong about weight loss conversation, that's up to you.
you never addressed my earlier question to you - you say IF causes weight loss - how is it that people use IF to lose/gain/maintain weight if calorie deficit has nothing to do with it???
I didn't quite understand your question earlier. First, I have read and seen testimonials that IF causes weight loss but I'm too new to the process to speak for my own experience. I'm also researching all that I can find and I do believe that you have to maintain a calorie deficit. The way understand it is that fasting lowers your insulin levels allowing your body to burn both your immediate glucose store and then on to your fat stores. If you overeat in your window, I believe that the body will have enough energy immediately available and won't switch to fat burning.
Maintenance comes from appetite correction, meaning that your body intuitively knows how much food it needs to function and your appetite signals register accordingly. Additionally, your metabolism is functioning optimally. Again, this is what I have read (research and first-hand testimonial) so I am not stating it de facto.14 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
The one time I looked for autophagy after people touted it as this amazing thing that's going to save your life thanks to fasting, I have not found any sources besides, I think, studies done in worms. That's also a problem.
I don't think you looked very hard. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
From your link: "Our data lead us to speculate that sporadic fasting might represent a simple, safe and inexpensive means to promote this potentially therapeutic neuronal response."
Even the study authors don't think they've demonstrated what you seem to claim they have. They're just speculating.
And the study doesn't demonstrate anything about beneficial effects of autophagy, just suggests the speculation that "sporadic fasting" could enable neuronal autophagy, contrary to current "dogma" ("dogma" = widely held opinions that you disagree with). Also, unless they have their own special definition of "sporadic," even their "speculation" doesn't support IF on a regular, daily basis ("regular, daily" is not "sporadic" (occasional, irregular).
As I've replied to other posters, the studies are relatively new (within the last 10 years). They have to start somewhere but their "speculations" are pretty promising. And, I posted one example that was easily found. It's not the only information out there. I'm not sure where your dogma comment is coming from but if it's because I'm discussing ideas that go against the grain, then okay. I prefer to be inspired by ideas that may prevent cancer and alzheimers - we aren't successfully winning that battle yet.
On a personal note, I've done CI/CO for nearly 2 decades. I'm 40 now and had my last baby at 38 and it is NOT working for me. I've logged in every day since January and I am personally not having success. I am trying something else and have been keeping my "friends" updated.
what do you mean when you say CICO doesn't work for you? you believe you are eating at a calorie SURPLUS now and losing weight????
I'm saying that the traditional method of calorie counting and restriction isn't working for me. My hope is that my body starts using its energy differently. BUT I don't intend to consume carte blanche either.13 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
The one time I looked for autophagy after people touted it as this amazing thing that's going to save your life thanks to fasting, I have not found any sources besides, I think, studies done in worms. That's also a problem.
I don't think you looked very hard. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
So mice, then.
That changes nothing.
That depends on how you look at things. The process of autophagy is only recently discovered and studied. It's the beginning of something that can be truly promising. All studies have to start somewhere and typically, they have to be successful on animals before moving to human trials. Weight loss aside, the idea that a process we can initiate can contribute to cancer, alzeihmers, Parkinsons, etc. prevention is inspiring to me. But if you want to dumb the whole thing down to a who's right and who's wrong about weight loss conversation, that's up to you.
you never addressed my earlier question to you - you say IF causes weight loss - how is it that people use IF to lose/gain/maintain weight if calorie deficit has nothing to do with it???
I didn't quite understand your question earlier. First, I have read and seen testimonials that IF causes weight loss but I'm too new to the process to speak for my own experience. I'm also researching all that I can find and I do believe that you have to maintain a calorie deficit. The way understand it is that fasting lowers your insulin levels allowing your body to burn both your immediate glucose store and then on to your fat stores. If you overeat in your window, I believe that the body will have enough energy immediately available and won't switch to fat burning.
Maintenance comes from appetite correction, meaning that your body intuitively knows how much food it needs to function and your appetite signals register accordingly. Additionally, your metabolism is functioning optimally. Again, this is what I have read (research and first-hand testimonial) so I am not stating it de facto.
So the argument is that IF causes weight loss but somehow your body "knows" when you've reached the weight you want to be and stops causing weight loss?
10 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
The one time I looked for autophagy after people touted it as this amazing thing that's going to save your life thanks to fasting, I have not found any sources besides, I think, studies done in worms. That's also a problem.
I don't think you looked very hard. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
From your link: "Our data lead us to speculate that sporadic fasting might represent a simple, safe and inexpensive means to promote this potentially therapeutic neuronal response."
Even the study authors don't think they've demonstrated what you seem to claim they have. They're just speculating.
And the study doesn't demonstrate anything about beneficial effects of autophagy, just suggests the speculation that "sporadic fasting" could enable neuronal autophagy, contrary to current "dogma" ("dogma" = widely held opinions that you disagree with). Also, unless they have their own special definition of "sporadic," even their "speculation" doesn't support IF on a regular, daily basis ("regular, daily" is not "sporadic" (occasional, irregular).
As I've replied to other posters, the studies are relatively new (within the last 10 years). They have to start somewhere but their "speculations" are pretty promising. And, I posted one example that was easily found. It's not the only information out there. I'm not sure where your dogma comment is coming from but if it's because I'm discussing ideas that go against the grain, then okay. I prefer to be inspired by ideas that may prevent cancer and alzheimers - we aren't successfully winning that battle yet.
On a personal note, I've done CI/CO for nearly 2 decades. I'm 40 now and had my last baby at 38 and it is NOT working for me. I've logged in every day since January and I am personally not having success. I am trying something else and have been keeping my "friends" updated.
what do you mean when you say CICO doesn't work for you? you believe you are eating at a calorie SURPLUS now and losing weight????
I'm saying that the traditional method of calorie counting and restriction isn't working for me. My hope is that my body starts using its energy differently. BUT I don't intend to consume carte blanche either.
That's like saying I hope my car starts running on water instead of gasoline.
The human body has established metabolic pathways. Physiology is what it is. Changing what time you eat doesn't somehow alter your metabolic pathways or change your physiology and magically make your body do something it isn't made to do, despite whatever woo Fung and his ilk might dream up.17 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
The one time I looked for autophagy after people touted it as this amazing thing that's going to save your life thanks to fasting, I have not found any sources besides, I think, studies done in worms. That's also a problem.
I don't think you looked very hard. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
From your link: "Our data lead us to speculate that sporadic fasting might represent a simple, safe and inexpensive means to promote this potentially therapeutic neuronal response."
Even the study authors don't think they've demonstrated what you seem to claim they have. They're just speculating.
And the study doesn't demonstrate anything about beneficial effects of autophagy, just suggests the speculation that "sporadic fasting" could enable neuronal autophagy, contrary to current "dogma" ("dogma" = widely held opinions that you disagree with). Also, unless they have their own special definition of "sporadic," even their "speculation" doesn't support IF on a regular, daily basis ("regular, daily" is not "sporadic" (occasional, irregular).
As I've replied to other posters, the studies are relatively new (within the last 10 years). They have to start somewhere but their "speculations" are pretty promising. And, I posted one example that was easily found. It's not the only information out there. I'm not sure where your dogma comment is coming from but if it's because I'm discussing ideas that go against the grain, then okay. I prefer to be inspired by ideas that may prevent cancer and alzheimers - we aren't successfully winning that battle yet.
On a personal note, I've done CI/CO for nearly 2 decades. I'm 40 now and had my last baby at 38 and it is NOT working for me. I've logged in every day since January and I am personally not having success. I am trying something else and have been keeping my "friends" updated.
what do you mean when you say CICO doesn't work for you? you believe you are eating at a calorie SURPLUS now and losing weight????
I'm saying that the traditional method of calorie counting and restriction isn't working for me. My hope is that my body starts using its energy differently. BUT I don't intend to consume carte blanche either.
That's like saying I hope my car starts running on water instead of gasoline.
The human body has established metabolic pathways. Physiology is what it is. Changing what time you eat doesn't somehow alter your metabolic pathways or change your physiology and magically make your body do something it isn't made to do, despite whatever woo Fung and his ilk might dream up.
That's not helpful at all and thank you for nit-picking my conversations. I am using a method that will allow me to burn fat for energy after it has depleted it's immediate energy store from food. I guess the joke is on me when I'm starving and still overweight. Why don't you explain "established metabolic pathways" and the corresponding physiology? And maybe provide articles outside of weightlifting online.18 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »IF helps with calorie restriction only. It has no specific health benefits. If you log your intake adequently and exercise, and you’re at or below your daily calories, IF isn’t needed. I tried IF (16:8 ratio) awhile back and I found I was eating MORE later because I felt famished. Eating 3 times a day has eliminated that.
That is a false statement. The benefits are numerous and there studies and research to prove it, which include weight loss, reducing inflammation, increasing muscle, reducing/eliminating type 2 diabetes, preventing cancer and alzheimers, to name a few. The 2016 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to a person that identified the process of Autophagy, which happens during a fasted-state. It's the process of your body cleaning out cellular junk and broken down proteins. Also, you were probably hungry because you were consuming something that released insulin and triggered digestion. It could have even been lemon in your water.
I actually think this is more of a false statement. you can't outrun thermodynamics. 2500 cals in your eating window is 2500 cals regardless. also autophogy and sparked more so by extended caloric restriction and deprivation, not fasting. if fasting helps you to create a deficit, then yes, its helping, but not causing. I would love to see those studies that prove it from credible legit sources. because I have credible proven meta analysis studies and articles on hand to negate a "10 person study" or a bodybuilding .com article.....
fasting does not promote weightless, caloric deficits do. I've been a test subject myself just to disprove people.
Fasting most certainly starts autophagy. Here is one link to check out: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
Ok - so it does in mice (transgenic mice, no less)... did you read the study? The autophagy results were achieved with 24-48 hour water fasts, well beyond the range of IF.
And 48 hours in the life of a mouse is quite something different than 48 hours to a human.6 -
A caloric deficit does that quite nicely, however it is created. That's how weight loss happens. CICO.LeeshaSeal wrote: »I am using a method that will allow me to burn fat for energy after it has depleted it's immediate energy store from food.
You still haven't answered the question of how people manage to gain weight while doing IF, if eating within a certain time window will absolutely guarantee weight loss. If time-constrained eating automatically causes your body to burn fat for energy after depleting its immediate energy store from food (which is not how it happens, btw), then it would not be physiologically possible to gain weight while doing IF.
LOL. That's a bit more complex than can be summed up in a forum post. And I'm not in the least bit inclined to take on rewriting what has been covered in countless textbooks on the subject to argue against Fung's pseudoscience and cherry-picked research.LeeshaSeal wrote: »Why don't you explain "established metabolic pathways" and the corresponding physiology?
7
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