Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Gullible Naive Society or Just down right Lazy?
Options
Replies
-
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
I understand the point you're trying to make. But we are all tempted by yummy food. We would all rather eat whatever we want, and sleep late. We all have our struggles and we all make our choices. No one is doing everything right and still destined to be obese. No one has no choice but to eat too much calorie dense food.
It's possible to believe in personal responsibility being the key, yet still understand the struggle we all go through to figure out what the right choices are and how hard it can be to make those choices. Most of us here in maintenance spent our whole adult lives up to this point failing and failing again until we figured it out.
It is not the food industry's responsibility to make sure we don't eat too much. We all walk through the same supermarket, we all drive past the same restaurants. I love fast food, but when I ate it every day for lunch, it was too hard to lose weight. So I decided to cut back to once a week. I would still love to go every day, but I don't. Other people do, and routinely tell me how "lucky" I am to be thin. When work brings in pizza for us, I have 1 slice and maybe split a second with someone, others have three slices. Then they complain that work is making them fat. These people feel powerless, but they are making choices. And the diet industry is feeding that feeling that they have no control, because if they took control and recognized they were making choices, there would be no need for a diet industry.
IMHO, if you want to blame an "industry", blame the diet and weight loss industry. They are convincing everyone that it isn't their fault and setting up all the boogiemen.
You know what, I'm done, because I'm just going to end up repeating myself. If you disagree with my opinion, then that's fine.
There are people who think the tobacco industry did nothing wrong either.
It's usually the people who quit smoking that think that, for some reason, while the ones who never got hooked in the first place seem to be able to see something wasn't right.
11 -
When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.8
-
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
Exactly....minus the "bro" part because it applies to everyone. There certainly are things that I could be doing better...I'm not sure if you meant that as an insult or what but...yeah, of course. You can put effort into looking for and making excuses...but how exactly does that help you become successful? Can everyone succeed? No. Is trying to succeed all that is needed for success? No. Are there impediments to your success that are beyond your grasp or control? Yes.
Is looking for things external to yourself for which you have no control in order to blame them for your lack of success a path to success? No.
Encouraging people to place blame on Dorittos Inc for making a particularly tasty snack chip will not help anyone deal with their weight problem. You didn't succeed in your goals because you made excuses and blamed companies...you took agency and made changes in your own life.
It is not that I have no empathy for lifes struggles and difficulties, I do...I just don't see the point in dwelling on them rather than taking a hard look at ones own decisions and deciding how best to change them to best effect ones own personal goals. At no point did I say it was easy, you just seem to be reading that into what i am saying. What I am saying is that deciding to place blame rather than take action is not a path towards your goals.9 -
the first time I saw my little baby be drawn in by packaging in the grocery store I was stunned...my little baby NOW my little babies are college grads - eat clean...one is a PhD in nutrition...FOOL ME ONCE - shame on you ....not fooling us again,. we even adjust our diet when we are not feeling great..instead of running off to a doctor. food is the foundation of our health.18
-
When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
17 -
the first time I saw my little baby be drawn in by packaging in the grocery store I was stunned...my little baby NOW my little babies are college grads - eat clean...one is a PhD in nutrition...FOOL ME ONCE - shame on you ....not fooling us again,.
My babies seemed inexorably drawn to dog food. Those dastardly dog food companies, set upon ruining my child's future health!14 -
Why are shows like Ghost Hunter still on? They've never captured or even seen a ghost. Why do people believe in a higher power? Absolutely no proof of such a thing.
People need to have faith in something.3 -
the first time I saw my little baby be drawn in by packaging in the grocery store I was stunned...my little baby NOW my little babies are college grads - eat clean...one is a PhD in nutrition...FOOL ME ONCE - shame on you ....not fooling us again,.
My babies seemed inexorably drawn to dog food. Those dastardly dog food companies, set upon ruining my child's future health!
But do they have a nice shiny coat?8 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »the first time I saw my little baby be drawn in by packaging in the grocery store I was stunned...my little baby NOW my little babies are college grads - eat clean...one is a PhD in nutrition...FOOL ME ONCE - shame on you ....not fooling us again,.
My babies seemed inexorably drawn to dog food. Those dastardly dog food companies, set upon ruining my child's future health!
But do they have a nice shiny coat?
My oldest son does have gorgeous curly hair the girls are all jealous of. I'll have him write a thank you note to Purina.5 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
Maybe that's more or less the truth. Eat less, move more isn't a catch phrase. It's simple, just not easy. They were looking for an easy button.12 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
After seeing peoples eyes glaze over when you explain how this is a lifestyle change and not a short-term diet, I didn't feel like wasting my time, but if they actually asked "real" questions, I was glad to discuss anything they wanted if I felt it would help them, but they were the minority.13 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
Exactly....minus the "bro" part because it applies to everyone. There certainly are things that I could be doing better. You can put effort into looking for and making excuses...but how exactly does that help you become successful? Can everyone succeed? No. Is trying to succeed all that is needed for success? No. Are there impediments to your success that are beyond your grasp or control? Yes.
Is looking for things external to yourself for which you have no control in order to blame them for your lack of success a path to success? No.
Encouraging people to place blame on Dorittos Inc for making a particularly tasty snack chip will not help anyone deal with their weight problem. You didn't succeed in your goals because you made excuses and blamed companies...you took agency and made changes in your own life.
So which is it? Are you gullible or lazy?
7 -
the first time I saw my little baby be drawn in by packaging in the grocery store I was stunned...my little baby NOW my little babies are college grads - eat clean...one is a PhD in nutrition...FOOL ME ONCE - shame on you ....not fooling us again,.
My babies seemed inexorably drawn to dog food. Those dastardly dog food companies, set upon ruining my child's future health!
One of my nephews is convinced that detergent bottles have something magically delicious inside them . . . or at least that's what I've concluded after seeing how much he will cry when my sister doesn't let him have them.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »the first time I saw my little baby be drawn in by packaging in the grocery store I was stunned...my little baby NOW my little babies are college grads - eat clean...one is a PhD in nutrition...FOOL ME ONCE - shame on you ....not fooling us again,.
My babies seemed inexorably drawn to dog food. Those dastardly dog food companies, set upon ruining my child's future health!
One of my nephews is convinced that detergent bottles have something magically delicious inside them . . . or at least that's what I've concluded after seeing how much he will cry when my sister doesn't let him have them.
Never too early to teach them to eat clean :laugh:17 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
Exactly....minus the "bro" part because it applies to everyone. There certainly are things that I could be doing better. You can put effort into looking for and making excuses...but how exactly does that help you become successful? Can everyone succeed? No. Is trying to succeed all that is needed for success? No. Are there impediments to your success that are beyond your grasp or control? Yes.
Is looking for things external to yourself for which you have no control in order to blame them for your lack of success a path to success? No.
Encouraging people to place blame on Dorittos Inc for making a particularly tasty snack chip will not help anyone deal with their weight problem. You didn't succeed in your goals because you made excuses and blamed companies...you took agency and made changes in your own life.
So which is it? Are you gullible or lazy?
In what aspects? I am not gullible and lazy in all aspects of my life but there certainly are parts that I am. I tend to be lazy when it comes to exercise, find it easy to make excuses to do something else. For that I've tried to at least set 30 minutes aside on weekends for exercise, be it directed like a workout video or more general like a hike. For gullibility I find I can sometimes be overly skeptical of political organizations and parties I do not traditionally agree with while being a little too accepting and gullible when it comes to statements by parties or organizations I have traditionally agreed with....that could be considered a bit of intellectual laziness as well I suppose. I try to work on that by limiting the amount of time I try to find holes in someones statement if I tend to disagree with them in general and at least look into the statements a bit of someone I tend to agree with. Time management has always been an issue for me, I don't think multitasking is actually possible...certainly isn't for me. Have been trying to implement a time management system I got from a self-help book on management.
Or did you mean in a different way?
No one is perfect, so I don't see why I would consider my imperfections to be embarrassing or something I wouldn't be willing to admit. After all if you can't admit them you can't work on them.
I think you are totally misunderstanding or misrepresenting what I am saying either intentionally or otherwise.
I am not saying "be perfect like me" I am saying "if you want to work towards a goal then spending time blaming external factors is not going to get you there". I am not saying that losing weight is easy, I am saying that blaming companies for making tasty snacks isn't going to get you there.
19 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
I understand the point you're trying to make. But we are all tempted by yummy food. We would all rather eat whatever we want, and sleep late. We all have our struggles and we all make our choices. No one is doing everything right and still destined to be obese. No one has no choice but to eat too much calorie dense food.
It's possible to believe in personal responsibility being the key, yet still understand the struggle we all go through to figure out what the right choices are and how hard it can be to make those choices. Most of us here in maintenance spent our whole adult lives up to this point failing and failing again until we figured it out.
It is not the food industry's responsibility to make sure we don't eat too much. We all walk through the same supermarket, we all drive past the same restaurants. I love fast food, but when I ate it every day for lunch, it was too hard to lose weight. So I decided to cut back to once a week. I would still love to go every day, but I don't. Other people do, and routinely tell me how "lucky" I am to be thin. When work brings in pizza for us, I have 1 slice and maybe split a second with someone, others have three slices. Then they complain that work is making them fat. These people feel powerless, but they are making choices. And the diet industry is feeding that feeling that they have no control, because if they took control and recognized they were making choices, there would be no need for a diet industry.
IMHO, if you want to blame an "industry", blame the diet and weight loss industry. They are convincing everyone that it isn't their fault and setting up all the boogiemen.
You know what, I'm done, because I'm just going to end up repeating myself. If you disagree with my opinion, then that's fine.
There are people who think the tobacco industry did nothing wrong either.
It's usually the people who quit smoking that think that, for some reason, while the ones who never got hooked in the first place seem to be able to see something wasn't right.
The tobacco industry knew that their product would give someone cancer, even if consumed in a responsible manner, and hid that information as long as they could. There is no food in the supermarket or restaurants that will kill someone if consumed in a responsible manner. Sorry, but I don't agree there is similarity there. I can eat a toaster strudel with my breakfast every Sunday and live a long and healthy life. Or I could eat a box of Toaster Strudels every day, and become an obese diabetic. My choice determines the different outcomes. Toaster Strudels aren't going to kill me, my choice to over consume them might.
So this is in the debate forum. I wasn't looking to pick a fight with you, or put down your opinion. I was debating with you, because yes I do disagree and that's what this forum is for. You are of course entitled to your opinion, and like I said, I get where you're coming from. But I do strongly disagree :drinker:11 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
After seeing peoples eyes glaze over when you explain how this is a lifestyle change and not a short-term diet, I didn't feel like wasting my time, but if they actually asked "real" questions, I was glad to discuss anything they wanted if I felt it would help them, but they were the minority.
There are a lot of people who have had similar experiences. People ask what the secret is, and then when you tell them, they shut down because it's too much work. Absolutely, it's a lot of work. If it were easy we would all be strong, healthy, and rich.8 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
He said:A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
What you countered with doesn't bear on that at all.
I agree with him, obviously: We need to understand the personal responsibility and agency we do have, even if it's not total agency. If we believe we have no control over any aspect to any degree, we truly have none, but only because we're not seeing the (perhaps meager) tools on the workbench in front of us. If we believe we are manipulated victims, the focus is on what we can't control; that's an unproductive focus.
To say that we have (some) control and influence over our situation says nothing about how easy progress will be, or how successful we'll be.
I think the same thing does apply to finances, BTW: I'm old, and retired, as are many of my friends. The people who looked at the financial workbench with a clear eye in their youth, and figured out what tools than they had and how to use them, have done better overall than those who believed they had no control, or didn't think about it. Doesn't mean it was easy, doesn't mean they were bang-up successful in a big way, didn't mean some weren't set back by illness or other uncontrollables . . . but they were more successful than they would've been had they not taken responsibility, and used what few tools they had as best they could.
You're doing exactly those things when you keep trying, and end up figuring out what works, and moving down in skirt size.
To say that a message of responsibility and agency is empowering is not to say that people aren't working hard. It's to say that working hard is worthwhile.
In the same circumstances, people who focus on their own agency make better progress than people who focus on what's being done to them by others. Easy progress? No. To the most ultimate imaginable success? No. But more progress.
P.S. I don't understand where habits come from, if they don't flow from choices.
And what I'm saying is that you can run a marathon, and say you did it 1) by putting one foot in front of the other, personal choice and discipline. If you don't run a marathon, it's because of a lack of discipline and decision.
That is true, but not helpful to someone whose chest starts burning after a minute of running.
Ignoring the challenges they have to overcome does not help them overcome them. Instead of put one foot in front of the other, how about:
2) Try alternate walking and running. Before your chest starts burning, slow down and walk. When you catch your breath, start running again. Do this several times and be done. The next day, repeat, only add one minute. Over time, your lung capacity increases really fast. Then sign up for a 5k. Then join a running club. After a while, you'll notice you can push out 10 miles with ease, but then hit a wall at mile 13. Here are the strategies to pushing past that barrier to mile 22, where it gets hard again. There are specific strategies to get those last 4 miles done.
Which advice do you think is more helpful to the one that's struggling?
This sub-thread was rooted in a post where someone (hint: you) said:There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
How on earth is that "helpful to the one that's (sic) struggling" with weight loss?
It doesn't. It frames the problem in a way that blames external forces.
But I get that you weren't actually talking about detailed steps people should take. Neither am I.
It's a thread about why people are attracted to bad diet advice. You're seemingly saying one reason is that hyperpalatable foods and their purveyors are to blame. I disagree.5 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
He said:A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
What you countered with doesn't bear on that at all.
I agree with him, obviously: We need to understand the personal responsibility and agency we do have, even if it's not total agency. If we believe we have no control over any aspect to any degree, we truly have none, but only because we're not seeing the (perhaps meager) tools on the workbench in front of us. If we believe we are manipulated victims, the focus is on what we can't control; that's an unproductive focus.
To say that we have (some) control and influence over our situation says nothing about how easy progress will be, or how successful we'll be.
I think the same thing does apply to finances, BTW: I'm old, and retired, as are many of my friends. The people who looked at the financial workbench with a clear eye in their youth, and figured out what tools than they had and how to use them, have done better overall than those who believed they had no control, or didn't think about it. Doesn't mean it was easy, doesn't mean they were bang-up successful in a big way, didn't mean some weren't set back by illness or other uncontrollables . . . but they were more successful than they would've been had they not taken responsibility, and used what few tools they had as best they could.
You're doing exactly those things when you keep trying, and end up figuring out what works, and moving down in skirt size.
To say that a message of responsibility and agency is empowering is not to say that people aren't working hard. It's to say that working hard is worthwhile.
In the same circumstances, people who focus on their own agency make better progress than people who focus on what's being done to them by others. Easy progress? No. To the most ultimate imaginable success? No. But more progress.
P.S. I don't understand where habits come from, if they don't flow from choices.
And what I'm saying is that you can run a marathon, and say you did it 1) by putting one foot in front of the other, personal choice and discipline. If you don't run a marathon, it's because of a lack of discipline and decision.
That is true, but not helpful to someone whose chest starts burning after a minute of running.
Ignoring the challenges they have to overcome does not help them overcome them. Instead of put one foot in front of the other, how about:
2) Try alternate walking and running. Before your chest starts burning, slow down and walk. When you catch your breath, start running again. Do this several times and be done. The next day, repeat, only add one minute. Over time, your lung capacity increases really fast. Then sign up for a 5k. Then join a running club. After a while, you'll notice you can push out 10 miles with ease, but then hit a wall at mile 13. Here are the strategies to pushing past that barrier to mile 22, where it gets hard again. There are specific strategies to get those last 4 miles done.
Which advice do you think is more helpful to the one that's struggling?
The 2nd one is better advice. But that wasn't what you brought to the conversation that I took issue with . I was taking issue with you giving the notion that companies are to blame for producing tasty foods that are overly tempting rather than the people who choose to eat those foods in favor of a more moderated and sustainable diet.
Using your marathon analogy it would be like you came into the conversation with a third option:
3) Blame sneaker companies for making shoes that are very trendy and popular but yet don't provide enough arch support for sustained running. Gripe about this publicly until you feel better about your inability to run a marathon and demand sneaker companies produce shoes that better fit your personal needs rather than fit the overall market.
Between those three options option 2 might be best, but I'd side with option 1 over option 3. Option 3 strikes me as being the most negative and useless of the three.9 -
Recently, I was on social media discussing CICO and I was met with derision and lots of, ‘you just don’t get it!’ (What don’t I get? I’m safely losing weight!) and, ‘you’d sing a different tune if you had a chronic illness that means you can’t exercise sometimes!’
I pointed out I do, in fact, have a chronic illness and sometimes I can’t exercise and am still losing weight. To which the reply (from many), was, it’s just not that easy!’ But I never said it was easy.
I’d also like to point out I wasn’t fat shaming anyone. But I was made to feel as though talking about the science of CICO was a heartless thing to do.
People don't want to take responsibility for themselves. It's much more comforting to look at oneself as a victim because it removes accountability for their actions. That epidemic reaches much further than just weight loss in our society.
People don't understand the difference between simple and easy.
Weightloss is simple. Consume fewer calories than you are using and you will, over time, lose weight. That's the simple part.
However, it's not EASY. You have to have skills to measure and track these things. Even with apps, people often don't get it.
As others have suggested, they also fail to perform critical reasoning. They see the giant bowl of cereal on the box and assume, or believe that's ONE serving. It's probably 3 to 5 servings.
Simple, yes.
Easy, no. Not for the chronically ill or injured nor for those not impacted by such concerns.5
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 916 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions