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Gullible Naive Society or Just down right Lazy?
Replies
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IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
I understand the point you're trying to make. But we are all tempted by yummy food. We would all rather eat whatever we want, and sleep late. We all have our struggles and we all make our choices. No one is doing everything right and still destined to be obese. No one has no choice but to eat too much calorie dense food.
It's possible to believe in personal responsibility being the key, yet still understand the struggle we all go through to figure out what the right choices are and how hard it can be to make those choices. Most of us here in maintenance spent our whole adult lives up to this point failing and failing again until we figured it out.
It is not the food industry's responsibility to make sure we don't eat too much. We all walk through the same supermarket, we all drive past the same restaurants. I love fast food, but when I ate it every day for lunch, it was too hard to lose weight. So I decided to cut back to once a week. I would still love to go every day, but I don't. Other people do, and routinely tell me how "lucky" I am to be thin. When work brings in pizza for us, I have 1 slice and maybe split a second with someone, others have three slices. Then they complain that work is making them fat. These people feel powerless, but they are making choices. And the diet industry is feeding that feeling that they have no control, because if they took control and recognized they were making choices, there would be no need for a diet industry.
IMHO, if you want to blame an "industry", blame the diet and weight loss industry. They are convincing everyone that it isn't their fault and setting up all the boogiemen.
You know what, I'm done, because I'm just going to end up repeating myself. If you disagree with my opinion, then that's fine.
There are people who think the tobacco industry did nothing wrong either.
It's usually the people who quit smoking that think that, for some reason, while the ones who never got hooked in the first place seem to be able to see something wasn't right.
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When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.8
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IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
Exactly....minus the "bro" part because it applies to everyone. There certainly are things that I could be doing better...I'm not sure if you meant that as an insult or what but...yeah, of course. You can put effort into looking for and making excuses...but how exactly does that help you become successful? Can everyone succeed? No. Is trying to succeed all that is needed for success? No. Are there impediments to your success that are beyond your grasp or control? Yes.
Is looking for things external to yourself for which you have no control in order to blame them for your lack of success a path to success? No.
Encouraging people to place blame on Dorittos Inc for making a particularly tasty snack chip will not help anyone deal with their weight problem. You didn't succeed in your goals because you made excuses and blamed companies...you took agency and made changes in your own life.
It is not that I have no empathy for lifes struggles and difficulties, I do...I just don't see the point in dwelling on them rather than taking a hard look at ones own decisions and deciding how best to change them to best effect ones own personal goals. At no point did I say it was easy, you just seem to be reading that into what i am saying. What I am saying is that deciding to place blame rather than take action is not a path towards your goals.9 -
the first time I saw my little baby be drawn in by packaging in the grocery store I was stunned...my little baby NOW my little babies are college grads - eat clean...one is a PhD in nutrition...FOOL ME ONCE - shame on you ....not fooling us again,. we even adjust our diet when we are not feeling great..instead of running off to a doctor. food is the foundation of our health.18
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When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
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the first time I saw my little baby be drawn in by packaging in the grocery store I was stunned...my little baby NOW my little babies are college grads - eat clean...one is a PhD in nutrition...FOOL ME ONCE - shame on you ....not fooling us again,.
My babies seemed inexorably drawn to dog food. Those dastardly dog food companies, set upon ruining my child's future health!14 -
Why are shows like Ghost Hunter still on? They've never captured or even seen a ghost. Why do people believe in a higher power? Absolutely no proof of such a thing.
People need to have faith in something.3 -
the first time I saw my little baby be drawn in by packaging in the grocery store I was stunned...my little baby NOW my little babies are college grads - eat clean...one is a PhD in nutrition...FOOL ME ONCE - shame on you ....not fooling us again,.
My babies seemed inexorably drawn to dog food. Those dastardly dog food companies, set upon ruining my child's future health!
But do they have a nice shiny coat?8 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »the first time I saw my little baby be drawn in by packaging in the grocery store I was stunned...my little baby NOW my little babies are college grads - eat clean...one is a PhD in nutrition...FOOL ME ONCE - shame on you ....not fooling us again,.
My babies seemed inexorably drawn to dog food. Those dastardly dog food companies, set upon ruining my child's future health!
But do they have a nice shiny coat?
My oldest son does have gorgeous curly hair the girls are all jealous of. I'll have him write a thank you note to Purina.5 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
Maybe that's more or less the truth. Eat less, move more isn't a catch phrase. It's simple, just not easy. They were looking for an easy button.12 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
After seeing peoples eyes glaze over when you explain how this is a lifestyle change and not a short-term diet, I didn't feel like wasting my time, but if they actually asked "real" questions, I was glad to discuss anything they wanted if I felt it would help them, but they were the minority.13 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
Exactly....minus the "bro" part because it applies to everyone. There certainly are things that I could be doing better. You can put effort into looking for and making excuses...but how exactly does that help you become successful? Can everyone succeed? No. Is trying to succeed all that is needed for success? No. Are there impediments to your success that are beyond your grasp or control? Yes.
Is looking for things external to yourself for which you have no control in order to blame them for your lack of success a path to success? No.
Encouraging people to place blame on Dorittos Inc for making a particularly tasty snack chip will not help anyone deal with their weight problem. You didn't succeed in your goals because you made excuses and blamed companies...you took agency and made changes in your own life.
So which is it? Are you gullible or lazy?
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the first time I saw my little baby be drawn in by packaging in the grocery store I was stunned...my little baby NOW my little babies are college grads - eat clean...one is a PhD in nutrition...FOOL ME ONCE - shame on you ....not fooling us again,.
My babies seemed inexorably drawn to dog food. Those dastardly dog food companies, set upon ruining my child's future health!
One of my nephews is convinced that detergent bottles have something magically delicious inside them . . . or at least that's what I've concluded after seeing how much he will cry when my sister doesn't let him have them.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »the first time I saw my little baby be drawn in by packaging in the grocery store I was stunned...my little baby NOW my little babies are college grads - eat clean...one is a PhD in nutrition...FOOL ME ONCE - shame on you ....not fooling us again,.
My babies seemed inexorably drawn to dog food. Those dastardly dog food companies, set upon ruining my child's future health!
One of my nephews is convinced that detergent bottles have something magically delicious inside them . . . or at least that's what I've concluded after seeing how much he will cry when my sister doesn't let him have them.
Never too early to teach them to eat clean :laugh:17 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
Exactly....minus the "bro" part because it applies to everyone. There certainly are things that I could be doing better. You can put effort into looking for and making excuses...but how exactly does that help you become successful? Can everyone succeed? No. Is trying to succeed all that is needed for success? No. Are there impediments to your success that are beyond your grasp or control? Yes.
Is looking for things external to yourself for which you have no control in order to blame them for your lack of success a path to success? No.
Encouraging people to place blame on Dorittos Inc for making a particularly tasty snack chip will not help anyone deal with their weight problem. You didn't succeed in your goals because you made excuses and blamed companies...you took agency and made changes in your own life.
So which is it? Are you gullible or lazy?
In what aspects? I am not gullible and lazy in all aspects of my life but there certainly are parts that I am. I tend to be lazy when it comes to exercise, find it easy to make excuses to do something else. For that I've tried to at least set 30 minutes aside on weekends for exercise, be it directed like a workout video or more general like a hike. For gullibility I find I can sometimes be overly skeptical of political organizations and parties I do not traditionally agree with while being a little too accepting and gullible when it comes to statements by parties or organizations I have traditionally agreed with....that could be considered a bit of intellectual laziness as well I suppose. I try to work on that by limiting the amount of time I try to find holes in someones statement if I tend to disagree with them in general and at least look into the statements a bit of someone I tend to agree with. Time management has always been an issue for me, I don't think multitasking is actually possible...certainly isn't for me. Have been trying to implement a time management system I got from a self-help book on management.
Or did you mean in a different way?
No one is perfect, so I don't see why I would consider my imperfections to be embarrassing or something I wouldn't be willing to admit. After all if you can't admit them you can't work on them.
I think you are totally misunderstanding or misrepresenting what I am saying either intentionally or otherwise.
I am not saying "be perfect like me" I am saying "if you want to work towards a goal then spending time blaming external factors is not going to get you there". I am not saying that losing weight is easy, I am saying that blaming companies for making tasty snacks isn't going to get you there.
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IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
I understand the point you're trying to make. But we are all tempted by yummy food. We would all rather eat whatever we want, and sleep late. We all have our struggles and we all make our choices. No one is doing everything right and still destined to be obese. No one has no choice but to eat too much calorie dense food.
It's possible to believe in personal responsibility being the key, yet still understand the struggle we all go through to figure out what the right choices are and how hard it can be to make those choices. Most of us here in maintenance spent our whole adult lives up to this point failing and failing again until we figured it out.
It is not the food industry's responsibility to make sure we don't eat too much. We all walk through the same supermarket, we all drive past the same restaurants. I love fast food, but when I ate it every day for lunch, it was too hard to lose weight. So I decided to cut back to once a week. I would still love to go every day, but I don't. Other people do, and routinely tell me how "lucky" I am to be thin. When work brings in pizza for us, I have 1 slice and maybe split a second with someone, others have three slices. Then they complain that work is making them fat. These people feel powerless, but they are making choices. And the diet industry is feeding that feeling that they have no control, because if they took control and recognized they were making choices, there would be no need for a diet industry.
IMHO, if you want to blame an "industry", blame the diet and weight loss industry. They are convincing everyone that it isn't their fault and setting up all the boogiemen.
You know what, I'm done, because I'm just going to end up repeating myself. If you disagree with my opinion, then that's fine.
There are people who think the tobacco industry did nothing wrong either.
It's usually the people who quit smoking that think that, for some reason, while the ones who never got hooked in the first place seem to be able to see something wasn't right.
The tobacco industry knew that their product would give someone cancer, even if consumed in a responsible manner, and hid that information as long as they could. There is no food in the supermarket or restaurants that will kill someone if consumed in a responsible manner. Sorry, but I don't agree there is similarity there. I can eat a toaster strudel with my breakfast every Sunday and live a long and healthy life. Or I could eat a box of Toaster Strudels every day, and become an obese diabetic. My choice determines the different outcomes. Toaster Strudels aren't going to kill me, my choice to over consume them might.
So this is in the debate forum. I wasn't looking to pick a fight with you, or put down your opinion. I was debating with you, because yes I do disagree and that's what this forum is for. You are of course entitled to your opinion, and like I said, I get where you're coming from. But I do strongly disagree :drinker:11 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
After seeing peoples eyes glaze over when you explain how this is a lifestyle change and not a short-term diet, I didn't feel like wasting my time, but if they actually asked "real" questions, I was glad to discuss anything they wanted if I felt it would help them, but they were the minority.
There are a lot of people who have had similar experiences. People ask what the secret is, and then when you tell them, they shut down because it's too much work. Absolutely, it's a lot of work. If it were easy we would all be strong, healthy, and rich.8 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
He said:A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
What you countered with doesn't bear on that at all.
I agree with him, obviously: We need to understand the personal responsibility and agency we do have, even if it's not total agency. If we believe we have no control over any aspect to any degree, we truly have none, but only because we're not seeing the (perhaps meager) tools on the workbench in front of us. If we believe we are manipulated victims, the focus is on what we can't control; that's an unproductive focus.
To say that we have (some) control and influence over our situation says nothing about how easy progress will be, or how successful we'll be.
I think the same thing does apply to finances, BTW: I'm old, and retired, as are many of my friends. The people who looked at the financial workbench with a clear eye in their youth, and figured out what tools than they had and how to use them, have done better overall than those who believed they had no control, or didn't think about it. Doesn't mean it was easy, doesn't mean they were bang-up successful in a big way, didn't mean some weren't set back by illness or other uncontrollables . . . but they were more successful than they would've been had they not taken responsibility, and used what few tools they had as best they could.
You're doing exactly those things when you keep trying, and end up figuring out what works, and moving down in skirt size.
To say that a message of responsibility and agency is empowering is not to say that people aren't working hard. It's to say that working hard is worthwhile.
In the same circumstances, people who focus on their own agency make better progress than people who focus on what's being done to them by others. Easy progress? No. To the most ultimate imaginable success? No. But more progress.
P.S. I don't understand where habits come from, if they don't flow from choices.
And what I'm saying is that you can run a marathon, and say you did it 1) by putting one foot in front of the other, personal choice and discipline. If you don't run a marathon, it's because of a lack of discipline and decision.
That is true, but not helpful to someone whose chest starts burning after a minute of running.
Ignoring the challenges they have to overcome does not help them overcome them. Instead of put one foot in front of the other, how about:
2) Try alternate walking and running. Before your chest starts burning, slow down and walk. When you catch your breath, start running again. Do this several times and be done. The next day, repeat, only add one minute. Over time, your lung capacity increases really fast. Then sign up for a 5k. Then join a running club. After a while, you'll notice you can push out 10 miles with ease, but then hit a wall at mile 13. Here are the strategies to pushing past that barrier to mile 22, where it gets hard again. There are specific strategies to get those last 4 miles done.
Which advice do you think is more helpful to the one that's struggling?
This sub-thread was rooted in a post where someone (hint: you) said:There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
How on earth is that "helpful to the one that's (sic) struggling" with weight loss?
It doesn't. It frames the problem in a way that blames external forces.
But I get that you weren't actually talking about detailed steps people should take. Neither am I.
It's a thread about why people are attracted to bad diet advice. You're seemingly saying one reason is that hyperpalatable foods and their purveyors are to blame. I disagree.5 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Someone mentioned the food. I am very new and learning constantly. My thing is you don't realize how bad the food you eat really is until you look up one day and realize you are overweight or have some kind of health issue. They make the (From my perspective at least) food addictive. The more salt, carbs, fat ... the better it tastes.. it's an addiction. Sometimes not even a conscious choice..just what you are accustomed to eating. I recently quit smoking and getting off the unhealthy food is by far harder than quitting the cigs. I decided I would take control of my body. I have made bad decisions about my 'diet' but at least i am trying. Someone mentioned the soda and chips (I would add tv and video games)..yeah if you don't know better it seems so much more appetizing than broccoli and water and exercise.
Honestly I didn't know any better..So when some healthy looking person would say oh I use this or that..yeah I listened. Who knew there is actual work involved and personal responsibility for every thing you put into your body. Like I said.. learning in progress.
People make food that tastes good....must be a conspiracy.
It actually is, to be honest. There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Right....because they want people to by their chips....so they make them tasty. Does that count as a conspiracy now?
Facebook employees have quit over what they say is manipulation of the human brain circuitry to make sure you spend as much time as possible on their site.
Food scientists say the same thing about their industry.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is not in the favor of the health of the consumer, and that is coming from the industry insiders.
If you don't agree, that's fine.
Yeah, because they are in the business of making money not the buisness of making you healthy. That isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a crime....it is just market economics. It isn't the job of a company to make you healthy, it is your job to make you healthy. If you value health over taste you can choose to purchase other items or moderate as you see fit. You have control of your own decisions. Someone making a particularly entertaining or appealing or tasty product isn't mindcontrolling you, they are just offering you something you like....you of course have the choice to decide to prioritize something else instead.
Take a look at my avi. I went from the red skirt to the blue one. I workout nearly every day. I am extremely fit. I eat 70% clean. I'll have you know, I don't feel that the MAJORITY of my eating and workouts are a choice. It is habit. Even when I don't want to go to the gym, I do. Not because I decide to, but because my body naturally starts getting ready at a certain time, because that's the power of habit. It works both ways, to reach for the cigarette, the donut, or the weights.
And I also remember what it was like when before I could fit into the red skirt. And how many tries I had. And how many things I tried. I remember working as hard as humanly possible to lose weight and eat only low calories and see no movement on the scale. It's only through the grace of God that I found the strength not to quit.
Just because I've made a lot of progress and it's (a lot) easier for me now, doesn't mean I have to ignore the challenges the people who are still trying their best and finding it very difficult.
People hollering about personal responsibility and Calories in Calories out sounded the exact same way to me as when you ask someone how to be a millionaire and they say, make more profit than expenses. If it was that easy, they wouldn't have business incubators and mentors.
So unless you are rolling in several million dollars, please stop being so condescending to those who are still struggling. Because MATH.
Because when I make my billions, I'll give credit where credit is due.
A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
So how's that portfolio doing?
Because I'm guessing you aren't working hard enough on it. You really should consider what you are doing in that regard because income in minus expenses is simple math.
Just get it done. No excuses if you haven't at least made a million by 45. Income minus expenses. Personal responsibility bro.
He said:A message of personal responsibility and agency should be empowering not condescending. You do have choice, everyone had choice. I made no statement about how easy it is to make choices or to be successful and the world doesn't really owe you or anyone else anything.
What you countered with doesn't bear on that at all.
I agree with him, obviously: We need to understand the personal responsibility and agency we do have, even if it's not total agency. If we believe we have no control over any aspect to any degree, we truly have none, but only because we're not seeing the (perhaps meager) tools on the workbench in front of us. If we believe we are manipulated victims, the focus is on what we can't control; that's an unproductive focus.
To say that we have (some) control and influence over our situation says nothing about how easy progress will be, or how successful we'll be.
I think the same thing does apply to finances, BTW: I'm old, and retired, as are many of my friends. The people who looked at the financial workbench with a clear eye in their youth, and figured out what tools than they had and how to use them, have done better overall than those who believed they had no control, or didn't think about it. Doesn't mean it was easy, doesn't mean they were bang-up successful in a big way, didn't mean some weren't set back by illness or other uncontrollables . . . but they were more successful than they would've been had they not taken responsibility, and used what few tools they had as best they could.
You're doing exactly those things when you keep trying, and end up figuring out what works, and moving down in skirt size.
To say that a message of responsibility and agency is empowering is not to say that people aren't working hard. It's to say that working hard is worthwhile.
In the same circumstances, people who focus on their own agency make better progress than people who focus on what's being done to them by others. Easy progress? No. To the most ultimate imaginable success? No. But more progress.
P.S. I don't understand where habits come from, if they don't flow from choices.
And what I'm saying is that you can run a marathon, and say you did it 1) by putting one foot in front of the other, personal choice and discipline. If you don't run a marathon, it's because of a lack of discipline and decision.
That is true, but not helpful to someone whose chest starts burning after a minute of running.
Ignoring the challenges they have to overcome does not help them overcome them. Instead of put one foot in front of the other, how about:
2) Try alternate walking and running. Before your chest starts burning, slow down and walk. When you catch your breath, start running again. Do this several times and be done. The next day, repeat, only add one minute. Over time, your lung capacity increases really fast. Then sign up for a 5k. Then join a running club. After a while, you'll notice you can push out 10 miles with ease, but then hit a wall at mile 13. Here are the strategies to pushing past that barrier to mile 22, where it gets hard again. There are specific strategies to get those last 4 miles done.
Which advice do you think is more helpful to the one that's struggling?
The 2nd one is better advice. But that wasn't what you brought to the conversation that I took issue with . I was taking issue with you giving the notion that companies are to blame for producing tasty foods that are overly tempting rather than the people who choose to eat those foods in favor of a more moderated and sustainable diet.
Using your marathon analogy it would be like you came into the conversation with a third option:
3) Blame sneaker companies for making shoes that are very trendy and popular but yet don't provide enough arch support for sustained running. Gripe about this publicly until you feel better about your inability to run a marathon and demand sneaker companies produce shoes that better fit your personal needs rather than fit the overall market.
Between those three options option 2 might be best, but I'd side with option 1 over option 3. Option 3 strikes me as being the most negative and useless of the three.9 -
Recently, I was on social media discussing CICO and I was met with derision and lots of, ‘you just don’t get it!’ (What don’t I get? I’m safely losing weight!) and, ‘you’d sing a different tune if you had a chronic illness that means you can’t exercise sometimes!’
I pointed out I do, in fact, have a chronic illness and sometimes I can’t exercise and am still losing weight. To which the reply (from many), was, it’s just not that easy!’ But I never said it was easy.
I’d also like to point out I wasn’t fat shaming anyone. But I was made to feel as though talking about the science of CICO was a heartless thing to do.
People don't want to take responsibility for themselves. It's much more comforting to look at oneself as a victim because it removes accountability for their actions. That epidemic reaches much further than just weight loss in our society.
People don't understand the difference between simple and easy.
Weightloss is simple. Consume fewer calories than you are using and you will, over time, lose weight. That's the simple part.
However, it's not EASY. You have to have skills to measure and track these things. Even with apps, people often don't get it.
As others have suggested, they also fail to perform critical reasoning. They see the giant bowl of cereal on the box and assume, or believe that's ONE serving. It's probably 3 to 5 servings.
Simple, yes.
Easy, no. Not for the chronically ill or injured nor for those not impacted by such concerns.5 -
Yet that is the truth. My wife, with multiple advanced degrees is on some pre-packaged food program now. She's smart enough to use the food scale, that she bought years ago and weight out food and eat it.
But instead, she believes that she much have 5 small meals every day and one lean and green meal, and she cannot exercise...
Meanwhile, all I've done since 14 Feb, well really 15 Feb, since we "blew it out" with a home cook Valentines Day meal is start tracking what I eat and, following the advice of my diabetes coach/dietitian which is stay under 2250 calories/day and under 225g of carbs/day 60g/meal and 45g/day in snacks.
Other than those days where I might ride my bike for two or three hours, I pretty much follow those guidelines and have dropped over 45 pounds, seeing my A1C and BG values return to the normal range.
I was already exercising, so that wasn't the issue. Just what was on my fork.
No heroic measures.
I've spoken with people who have noticed and they ask what I'm doing. Many times it's people at the gym, so they know I was already working out. I tell them I just watch what is on the end of my fork, that you cannot outwork your fork. I've shared my food log with them. Most cannot believe it's just paying attention to what I eat. Yet, really, that's all it is.
They want to believe there is some big, external factor, some lever they can push or pull to get more benefit than effort. That's the impression I get.
It would probably be better for me if I just said I was on the bacon and donuts diet, and suggest they google it....IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
2 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
Maybe that's more or less the truth. Eat less, move more isn't a catch phrase. It's simple, just not easy. They were looking for an easy button.
No, they weren't!!!!!!!!
I know, because I WAS THAT PERSON. I was that person with the gym memberships and the tapes and the diets and NO PROGRESS.
I wasn't looking for catch phrases. I was looking for real advice.
You go to business school because business is an entire skill set to learn. A simple profit = income - expenses IS NOT REAL BUSINESS ADVICE.
Losing weight took an enormous amount of new skills and habits I had to learn. It took a lot longer than I expected, but I'm also a lot fitter than I ever thought possible.
I can bench press 205lbs and squat 365. I can do backflips. I can swim laps and run races. I can eat clean.
Is any of that "the easy button?"
We aren't looking for "the easy button." We were looking for the "payroll is due, and the salesmen haven't closed the sales, and the bank is still looking over the loan papers, how do we get through" advice.
Cashflow and Net Worth are two different things, and you have to master both to succeed.
But, go ahead, and keep telling people about your superior discipline and lack of excuses.
27 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
Maybe that's more or less the truth. Eat less, move more isn't a catch phrase. It's simple, just not easy. They were looking for an easy button.
No, they weren't!!!!!!!!
I know, because I WAS THAT PERSON. I was that person with the gym memberships and the tapes and the diets and NO PROGRESS.
I wasn't looking for catch phrases. I was looking for real advice.
You go to business school because business is an entire skill set to learn. A simple profit = income - expenses IS NOT REAL BUSINESS ADVICE.
Losing weight took an enormous amount of new skills and habits I had to learn. It took a lot longer than I expected, but I'm also a lot fitter than I ever thought possible.
I can bench press 205lbs and squat 365. I can do backflips. I can swim laps and run races. I can eat clean.
Is any of that "the easy button?"
We aren't looking for "the easy button." We were looking for the "payroll is due, and the salesmen haven't closed the sales, and the bank is still looking over the loan papers, how do we get through" advice.
Cashflow and Net Worth are two different things, and you have to master both to succeed.
But, go ahead, and keep telling people about your superior discipline and lack of excuses.
Since you seem to be stating that everything in here should adhere to the highest possible standard of advice for how best to lose weight perhaps you can explain how your opening statement in this thread qualifies?IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Applying the very standard you appear to be applying to everyone else how would you rate this statement in terms of advice on how best to lose weight? How does blaming food manufacturers start you down the road to weight loss? How is this better advice that saying it is important to take personal responsibility and that discipline is a key aspect of any endevour to improve oneself. Sure...that advice might be too trite to be directly useful...but it at least it isn't terrible advice.14 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
Maybe that's more or less the truth. Eat less, move more isn't a catch phrase. It's simple, just not easy. They were looking for an easy button.
No, they weren't!!!!!!!!
I know, because I WAS THAT PERSON. I was that person with the gym memberships and the tapes and the diets and NO PROGRESS.
I wasn't looking for catch phrases. I was looking for real advice.
You go to business school because business is an entire skill set to learn. A simple profit = income - expenses IS NOT REAL BUSINESS ADVICE.
Losing weight took an enormous amount of new skills and habits I had to learn. It took a lot longer than I expected, but I'm also a lot fitter than I ever thought possible.
I can bench press 205lbs and squat 365. I can do backflips. I can swim laps and run races. I can eat clean.
Is any of that "the easy button?"
We aren't looking for "the easy button." We were looking for the "payroll is due, and the salesmen haven't closed the sales, and the bank is still looking over the loan papers, how do we get through" advice.
Cashflow and Net Worth are two different things, and you have to master both to succeed.
But, go ahead, and keep telling people about your superior discipline and lack of excuses.
You are projecting your motivations and experiences onto others. I was also that person. I suspect many others were as well.
Until I was ready to make the changes, no one could have made that sale on how to do it. No one. Same with finances. Until I was ready, no one could have made me change. I wanted it all, but not enough to do the work. I needed to be ready. Once I was ready, I realized that the information and support had been there all along. Accepting that still didn't make it easy.16 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »There is such a thing called hyperpalatability. That's why people can eat a whole bag of chips or fries. They figured out the point of natural satiation - the point where you body has figured out it has eaten enough. Then they found out how to make you want to eat past that point. They intentionally make foods that is hard to stop eating, because of it's hyperpalatability, which produces a dopamine response, which is the same chemical that makes it hard to get off your phone or stop playing video games.
Since you seem to be stating that everything in here should adhere to the highest possible standard of advice for how best to lose weight perhaps you can explain how your opening statement in this thread qualifies?
Applying the very standard you appear to be applying to everyone else how would you rate this statement in terms of advice on how best to lose weight?
Sure. All you had to do was not to be a quote miner, and just take the message in context. See bold:IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »
I have lost a lot of weight, and go to the gym nearly every day, for years and I lift heavy. This is my 2 cents on the topic:
I think for many people they are both habituated and addicted to certain foods. When you consider 1) food scientists were tasked by governments with making calorie dense foods to solve malnutrition and 2) by companies to find the combination that pushes past the satiation point, what they call hyperpalatability, you understand that people are going to have a hard time dieting. Because habits are hard to break and addictions are hard to break and so you have both the power of habit and the power of addiction to break all at once. Combine that with cold turkey not being an option, it means you have to live close to and be surrounded by the source of that addiction. You have to live to eat, so the amount of self-regulation required is really big.
There is a ginormous amount of new habits and skill sets one has to learn and practice consistently to be able to successfully lose weight. Going to the gym? What are you going to do with your hair afterward? You are going to eat more vegetables? How do you even cook them? Speaking of cooking, when are you going to find time for that? Most people don't consider what is for dinner until they want to eat it. Healthy eating requires preplanning and organization around food that most Americans don't do, because Americans are not big on cooking.
Then they have to alter their palate, which takes time. Rice cakes and green tea? How gross when going from Doritos and Coke.
It's hard. If it wasn't, more people would be slim.
People are looking for whatever they can grasp to help.
Most of the items you listed are being hawked by fitspiration Instagram people who LOOK like they know what they are talking about, even those who have lost major weight often hawk teas and cleanses.
As for sweat belts, I see many very slim women and even trainers use them, but they are just using them for bloating, not weight loss. People new on their journey are looking for any kind of loss, even if it's just water weight.
Corsets do work in terms of inches, but it doesn't make people lose fat - the fat (and organs) just get pushed and squished to the lower belly area. Gross.
Whatever these things are, it is a step in the process. Just as babies don't just get up and start walking, and most addicts try stopping a few times before being successful, so too are people who look to weight loss fads and diets. If they don't give up, they'll get there eventually.
My2cents.
5 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »
Sure. All you had to do was not to be a quote miner, and just take the message in context. See bold:
I quote mined you? I quoted your entire post. What do you mean I quote mined? Did you not say what I quoted?
And again, hold up that mirror. You are claiming everyone's post boils down to "its easy, I'm perfect, all you need is discipline and personal responsibility" which is a total misrepresentation.
No one in this entire thread has said even once that losing weight is easy but yet you claim that everyone has. You don't even quote mine, you just strawman. When you have actually quoted back something I said in this forum I agreed with what I said, I didn't complain that you were "quote mining" me. So do you stand by your statement or not?
So I ask again, how does your statement equate to good advice about weight loss given you are holding everyone else to that standard?10 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
Maybe that's more or less the truth. Eat less, move more isn't a catch phrase. It's simple, just not easy. They were looking for an easy button.
No, they weren't!!!!!!!!
I know, because I WAS THAT PERSON. I was that person with the gym memberships and the tapes and the diets and NO PROGRESS.
I wasn't looking for catch phrases. I was looking for real advice.
You go to business school because business is an entire skill set to learn. A simple profit = income - expenses IS NOT REAL BUSINESS ADVICE.
Losing weight took an enormous amount of new skills and habits I had to learn. It took a lot longer than I expected, but I'm also a lot fitter than I ever thought possible.
I can bench press 205lbs and squat 365. I can do backflips. I can swim laps and run races. I can eat clean.
Is any of that "the easy button?"
We aren't looking for "the easy button." We were looking for the "payroll is due, and the salesmen haven't closed the sales, and the bank is still looking over the loan papers, how do we get through" advice.
Cashflow and Net Worth are two different things, and you have to master both to succeed.
But, go ahead, and keep telling people about your superior discipline and lack of excuses.
You are projecting your motivations and experiences onto others. I was also that person. I suspect many others were as well.
Until I was ready to make the changes, no one could have made that sale on how to do it. No one. Same with finances. Until I was ready, no one could have made me change. I wanted it all, but not enough to do the work. I needed to be ready. Once I was ready, I realized that the information and support had been there all along. Accepting that still didn't make it easy.
And I was doing the work. And I wanted the advice. And I got trite *kitten* advice like eat less, move more. Which I was already doing to the best of my ability and all I had to show for it was insulting comments like I was lazy or not drink soda (which I wasn't).
Maybe next time take it down a notch and try actually being helpful to people if they are actually struggling.
Or, just do you and tell the cigarette addict to just not buy any cigarettes.
I hope that maybe the next time someone asks you, you'll remember this conversation and not be so quick to throw out a catch phrase.
They are not looking for the "what." They are looking for the "how."17 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »
Sure. All you had to do was not to be a quote miner, and just take the message in context. See bold:
I quote mined you? I quoted your entire post. What do you mean I quote mined? Did you not say what I quoted?
And again, hold up that mirror. You are claiming everyone's post boils down to "its easy, I'm perfect, all you need is discipline and personal responsibility" which is a total misrepresentation.
No one in this entire thread has said even once that losing weight is easy but yet you claim that everyone has. You don't even quote mine, you just strawman. When you have actually quoted back something I said in this forum I agreed with what I said, I didn't complain that you were "quote mining" me. So do you stand by your statement or not?
So I ask again, how does your statement equate to good advice about weight loss given you are holding everyone else to that standard?
Now you are using words like "strawman," which indicates to me that you care less about the topic at hand and more about winning a debate.
Using strawmen is a debate strategy. So, next time, apply all that knowledge you have about debate techniques when someone asks you how to lose weight.
Instead of replying, eat less, move more, or, "make the decision" or "do the work," say something like, if you're hungry at night after dinner try xyz to keep your calories at or under your goal.
You know, strategies. Like a compassionate human.
8 -
IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
Maybe that's more or less the truth. Eat less, move more isn't a catch phrase. It's simple, just not easy. They were looking for an easy button.
No, they weren't!!!!!!!!
I know, because I WAS THAT PERSON. I was that person with the gym memberships and the tapes and the diets and NO PROGRESS.
I wasn't looking for catch phrases. I was looking for real advice.
You go to business school because business is an entire skill set to learn. A simple profit = income - expenses IS NOT REAL BUSINESS ADVICE.
Losing weight took an enormous amount of new skills and habits I had to learn. It took a lot longer than I expected, but I'm also a lot fitter than I ever thought possible.
I can bench press 205lbs and squat 365. I can do backflips. I can swim laps and run races. I can eat clean.
Is any of that "the easy button?"
We aren't looking for "the easy button." We were looking for the "payroll is due, and the salesmen haven't closed the sales, and the bank is still looking over the loan papers, how do we get through" advice.
Cashflow and Net Worth are two different things, and you have to master both to succeed.
But, go ahead, and keep telling people about your superior discipline and lack of excuses.
You are projecting your motivations and experiences onto others. I was also that person. I suspect many others were as well.
Until I was ready to make the changes, no one could have made that sale on how to do it. No one. Same with finances. Until I was ready, no one could have made me change. I wanted it all, but not enough to do the work. I needed to be ready. Once I was ready, I realized that the information and support had been there all along. Accepting that still didn't make it easy.
And I was doing the work. And I wanted the advice. And I got trite *kitten* advice like eat less, move more. Which I was already doing to the best of my ability and all I had to show for it was insulting comments like I was lazy or not drink soda (which I wasn't).
Maybe next time take it down a notch and try actually being helpful to people if they are actually struggling.
Or, just do you and tell the cigarette addict to just not buy any cigarettes.
I hope that maybe the next time someone asks you, you'll remember this conversation and not be so quick to throw out a catch phrase.
They are not looking for the "what." They are looking for the "how."
Simple question. Are you owed advice?8 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »When I lost all my weight, people would ask how I did it, I would say (in the simplest way) ate less, moved more, they would get the most disappointed look. So my vote is Lazy.
That's the answer that makes you feel the best about yourself.
The truth is, they were looking for more than a catch phrase. They weren't looking for a calorie count and exercise program. They were looking for honest, "how did you get past the challenges" answer.
And you gave them: I'm disciplined and you're lazy.
Bravo. Heavy sarcasm.
Maybe that's more or less the truth. Eat less, move more isn't a catch phrase. It's simple, just not easy. They were looking for an easy button.
No, they weren't!!!!!!!!
I know, because I WAS THAT PERSON. I was that person with the gym memberships and the tapes and the diets and NO PROGRESS.
I wasn't looking for catch phrases. I was looking for real advice.
You go to business school because business is an entire skill set to learn. A simple profit = income - expenses IS NOT REAL BUSINESS ADVICE.
Losing weight took an enormous amount of new skills and habits I had to learn. It took a lot longer than I expected, but I'm also a lot fitter than I ever thought possible.
I can bench press 205lbs and squat 365. I can do backflips. I can swim laps and run races. I can eat clean.
Is any of that "the easy button?"
We aren't looking for "the easy button." We were looking for the "payroll is due, and the salesmen haven't closed the sales, and the bank is still looking over the loan papers, how do we get through" advice.
Cashflow and Net Worth are two different things, and you have to master both to succeed.
But, go ahead, and keep telling people about your superior discipline and lack of excuses.
You are projecting your motivations and experiences onto others. I was also that person. I suspect many others were as well.
Until I was ready to make the changes, no one could have made that sale on how to do it. No one. Same with finances. Until I was ready, no one could have made me change. I wanted it all, but not enough to do the work. I needed to be ready. Once I was ready, I realized that the information and support had been there all along. Accepting that still didn't make it easy.
And I was doing the work. And I wanted the advice. And I got trite *kitten* advice like eat less, move more. Which I was already doing to the best of my ability and all I had to show for it was insulting comments like I was lazy or not drink soda (which I wasn't).
Maybe next time take it down a notch and try actually being helpful to people if they are actually struggling.
Or, just do you and tell the cigarette addict to just not buy any cigarettes.
I hope that maybe the next time someone asks you, you'll remember this conversation and not be so quick to throw out a catch phrase.
They are not looking for the "what." They are looking for the "how."
Simple question. Are you owed advice?
Oh, you are one of those people. Never mind.
-A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. - Carnegie
14
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