Is 5 2 just a fad?
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Excuse me if I'm totally wrong, but isn't this just starving yourself on a schedule?0
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Define starving yourself. It's 2 days of severely restricted calorie intake.0
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Yes, it's a fad. Had a neighbor that did it for a few weeks, then quit. Said it was too hard. lol.0
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Define starving yourself. It's 2 days of severely restricted calorie intake.
Not having enough calories to fuel your bodily functions. If your bmr is 1800 and you eat 500, is that not starving yourself? Just because its only temporarily doesn't really change the definition does it?0 -
It is not a fad, Dr Michael Mosely has been doing it for over 10 years, and it was he who made the TV programme that triggered the recent interest
I don't think he has been doing it for 10 years. It seemed like it was a revelation to him on the Horizon programme. I remember him doing another "diet" Horizon programme not so long before, in which he found out that his body fat was too high and he was advocating turning meals into soup, increasing NEAT, eating low-fat dairy, etc. It had Alex James out of Blur on it, showing off his cheese. It looks like all that didn't work for him either, because apparently he still needed to lose weight when he did the next Horizon diet programme.
The idea of 5:2 did exist before the Horizon programme, so I'm sure there are people who have done it a long time - just not Michael Mosley!0 -
Yup. I have been JUDDDing for almost 18 months, I started way before Dr Mosely's programme.
I started it as I have never found a diet that sounded doable (I know too much physiology and all of the 'rules' were counter intuitive for sustained adherence). But JUDDD, written by another doctor, whose book explains his thinking and provides a lot of research links, focussed on the health benefits and the importance or 2 things:
1 weight loss is secondary
2 it should fit into your life not rule it
Taking that on board I have eaten my calories as the calculator suggests, never bothered if I was a bit over or under and always made the decision not to do it if life got in the way, that way failing, and its psychological issues, is never an issue.
Over a year I have lost about 0.5lbs each and every week (I stopped completely for about 3 months), lost a lot of fat - my back fat is almost entirely gone
and have lower cholesterol, BP and probably other measures I am unaware of. Energy has never been a problem, now I have the all clear form my GP I exercise on the morning of Up Days, prior to a proper breakfast, to take advantage of the 'fasted state' and it is easy, whether cardio or resistance.
I could bore you, having spent a few weeks in a medical library researching it, but I did my homework and am happy that, as far as is known now, it is not unhealthy when done properly. Best of all it is not a diet, it has none of the anxieties of a diet, none of the life sucking needs to focus on, obsess over foods... there is only 1 rule
Eat you calories
I know the naysayers will continue to scoff, but I do not have the inclination to care or to obsessively count carbs, sugars, protein whatever. For me this works, fits in my life, does me no psychological harm and any physiological changes are, so far, positive and any possible negatives will probably, at worst, be the same as any other diet.
I am fat. There is metabolic syndrome in the family. I need to do something, this is my something.
After that there is only one thing to say, each to his own - but do your own homework before dissing or starting any diet!0 -
Yes it's a fad until it has been proved in independent properly monitored scientific tests. I have no problem with fasting, I do it occasionally, sometimes inadvertently because of travel, sometimes because I want to, but to build it into a regime is just dumb in my opinion. It might work for some people but it depends how many calories you eat overall. There is no shortcut to calories in < calories out = weight loss.0
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How much research do you want?
Gold standard research on IF goes back decades in connection with diabetes - endocrinologists have studied it for years in animals and humans.
Ramadan and the affects of fasting in other religions have also been studied for years.
Effects on non obese subjects, obese subjects, insulin resistance, atherosclerosis, VO2max, brain metabolism, Alzheimers and on and on and on....
There are lots of studies out there, a quick Google will find them for you.0 -
How much research do you want?
Gold standard research on IF goes back decades in connection with diabetes - endocrinologists have studied it for years in animals and humans.
Ramadan and the affects of fasting in other religions have also been studied for years.
Effects on non obese subjects, obese subjects, insulin resistance, atherosclerosis, VO2max, brain metabolism, Alzheimers and on and on and on....
There are lots of studies out there, a quick Google will find them for you.
Suggest you read what I wrote. I have no problem with fasting per se, I googled 5:2 scientific research and found -
"There does not appear to be any research evidence that looks directly at the 5:2 diet. However, unlike some other fashionable diets, there is some evidence that suggests the claims made about it may have some validity – albeit with some notable limitations"
The jury is out, and while they're out it remains a fad.0 -
Semantics!
5:2 per se is too new to have specific research. But its principles are not new and there is a lot of research on those.
Also, if you focus on the weight loss then will be very little, as that is not its primary purpose.
As fads go intermittent fasting is very well researched.0 -
Semantics!
5:2 per se is too new to have specific research. But its principles are not new and there is a lot of research on those.
Also, if you focus on the weight loss then will be very little, as that is not its primary purpose.
As fads go intermittent fasting is very well researched.
No, not semantics, science! I have, as I've said, no problem with intermittent fasting, I do it myself, but 5:2 is a strict regime concerning regular fasting, and is promoted as an 'easy' way to lose weight with the caveat " Success also depends on not over-eating on your normal days"..........ooops, there you go!! So the 5:2 i based on eating less calories a week. And like it or not, it is not promoted as anything other than weight loss. You can even buy books by the people who came up with it! Not that they have anything other than altruism in their makeup......yeah right! It's even promoted as the "FAST DIET". The UK National Health Service say about it "compared to other types of weight loss programmes the evidence base of the safety and effectiveness of the 5:2 diet is limited"
http://thefastdiet.co.uk/
It' a fad. Get over it. Meantime I will continue to lose weight using the calorie control method for which there is scientific proof.0 -
Reading both of us back I think we are agreeing in principle. It is a matter if semantics, that and no tone in the written word.
I fast but not 5:2. The Fast in the title does not mean quick. I hate the website for it, it is full of idiots who start the diet and THEN ask questions. The forum is shocking in the extreme.
Success depending on not overeating on your normal days - why is that and oops, a bad thing? It is simply logical.
You repeat that there is little evidence for 5:2 and I will repeat that there is plenty of evidence for IF... we could go on.
It is a pity you choose to be a bit combative, 'get over it' never translates pleasantly. It usually ends any discussion due to the other person considering it a brick wall.
In light of that, good luck with your weight loss.0 -
Define starving yourself. It's 2 days of severely restricted calorie intake.
Not having enough calories to fuel your bodily functions. If your bmr is 1800 and you eat 500, is that not starving yourself? Just because its only temporarily doesn't really change the definition does it?
If you look in the mirror you will see that we all carry a huge fuel tank in the form of fat. Starvation is not eating low calories twice a week.
Do I look starved?
5:2 is a fad if you look at it as being fashionable but it is really just repackaging of different established styles of fasting into a simple framework that fits in very flexibly with the rest of your lifestyle. No special foods, no supplements, nothing to buy or subscribe too. Not really that faddish....
I've been doing it for a year and it's worked brilliantly for me.0 -
5:2 works and I'm over 60! BP now normal after being high for years, joint pains gone, shortness of breath gone, IBS gone. Sustainable because after restricting your calories to 500, you know tomorrow you will be eating "normally". 5lb off my goal weight after 22 weeks.
Congratulations on your weight loss. Counting calories works, I'm 66 lbs down after six and a half months. I'm also over 60. Sustainable because I have changed my lifestyle and am eating much healthier, I have no wish to eat 'normally' if it is the way I was eating before I started this journey. I like fasting occasionally, I'm not sure if it does have any good or bad effect, but it does reduce the number of calories I would otherwise have eaten that day, so for me it's positive.0 -
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Define starving yourself. It's 2 days of severely restricted calorie intake.
Not having enough calories to fuel your bodily functions. If your bmr is 1800 and you eat 500, is that not starving yourself? Just because its only temporarily doesn't really change the definition does it?
If you look in the mirror you will see that we all carry a huge fuel tank in the form of fat. Starvation is not eating low calories twice a week.
Do I look starved?
5:2 is a fad if you look at it as being fashionable but it is really just repackaging of different established styles of fasting into a simple framework that fits in very flexibly with the rest of your lifestyle. No special foods, no supplements, nothing to buy or subscribe too. Not really that faddish....
I've been doing it for a year and it's worked brilliantly for me.
How long can you survive on just your fat stores before you have negative health consequences? I'm just confused because when fasting isn't discussed on here, the talk is always "OHHH your deficit is too great and you won't lose weight and starvation mode blah blah". Hard to tell what's real0 -
How long can you survive on just your fat stores before you have negative health consequences? I'm just confused because when fasting isn't discussed on here, the talk is always "OHHH your deficit is too great and you won't lose weight and starvation mode blah blah". Hard to tell what's real
Ah! That's the problem there - starvation mode. It is one of the great diet industry lies. It is based in truth but has very little to do with the kind of kcal restrictions a normal 'diet' would introduce.
Also Intermittent Fasting is just another way of restricting your kcals to a weekly deficit, usually the same weekly deficit that any other sane diet would lead you to - about 1lb per week over time. It is really just a way of spreading your kcals out over a week rather than a day. Easier for some to get to grips with (and has other mooted health benefits).
Not all IF diets require cutting out any food group, fat, carb, protein. Some really do just focus on the kcals.
So you aren't starving yourself, relying on fat stores, wrecking your metabolism or any of the other horror stories you may have read. Although there will always be people who take it to extremes - at which point some of your objections would become much more real!0 -
How long can you survive on just your fat stores before you have negative health consequences? I'm just confused because when fasting isn't discussed on here, the talk is always "OHHH your deficit is too great and you won't lose weight and starvation mode blah blah". Hard to tell what's real
It's only one day at a time....
It's really only when people do extended fasts (3 days seems to be the commonly quoted figure) that you start to see metabolic slowdown.
You would also be surprised how much good food you can have for 600 calories (500 for women) - I fasted Weds & Fri last week if you want to see examples. This is what (in my opinion) makes this very easy to stick to plus the thought that "tomorrow I can eat normally" makes temporary hunger easy to deal with. Any form of weight loss only works when you discover something that is sustainable over the long term. For me prolonged deficit every single day is what's defeated me in the past and made losses temporary.
When I'm losing weight I'm only having approx. 3000 calories deficit over the course of a week, so very much a lifestyle change and not a crash diet.
Guess I'm a bit of an evangelist as I've been fat the vast majority of my adult life but I would recommend that people do their research into the various IF styles and give one a go.0 -
How long can you survive on just your fat stores before you have negative health consequences? I'm just confused because when fasting isn't discussed on here, the talk is always "OHHH your deficit is too great and you won't lose weight and starvation mode blah blah". Hard to tell what's real
It's only one day at a time....
It's really only when people do extended fasts (3 days seems to be the commonly quoted figure) that you start to see metabolic slowdown.
You would also be surprised how much good food you can have for 600 calories (500 for women) - I fasted Weds & Fri last week if you want to see examples. This is what (in my opinion) makes this very easy to stick to plus the thought that "tomorrow I can eat normally" makes temporary hunger easy to deal with. Any form of weight loss only works when you discover something that is sustainable over the long term. For me prolonged deficit every single day is what's defeated me in the past and made losses temporary.
When I'm losing weight I'm only having approx. 3000 calories deficit over the course of a week, so very much a lifestyle change and not a crash diet.
Guess I'm a bit of an evangelist as I've been fat the vast majority of my adult life but I would recommend that people do their research into the various IF styles and give one a go.
So, is there a limit to how much energy we can get from fat stored on our body? Like, could someone just drink water and live off their fat until they are totally thin? If not, why not? The science in this is interesting.0 -
It's a fad at the moment in that it's suddenly become the popular diet method, even though it has been around for a while. I've even seen adverts outside Pizza Express advertising their salads as fitting with fasting days!
I don't know a lot about the diet, but it does seem to work very well for some people. I'd always be wary of a diet that involves serious restriction though, just because it's next to impossible to maintain in the long-term. You do it for say, three months, drop dress sizes and all is well, but what happens when you reach your goal and start eating normally again? Surely you put it all back on?0 -
So, is there a limit to how much energy we can get from fat stored on our body? Like, could someone just drink water and live off their fat until they are totally thin? If not, why not? The science in this is interesting.
You are into the world of micronutrients, lack of vitamins and minerals and a whole list of directly associated illnesses, psychological stress and anxiety plus a long list of indirectly caused illnesses, heart problems, death!
Does anyone one remember the sunlight diet? Great scam!0 -
Do you feel exhausted?
I ran 10km yesterday & didnt have a thing to eat.
What do you think?0 -
It's a fad at the moment in that it's suddenly become the popular diet method, even though it has been around for a while. I've even seen adverts outside Pizza Express advertising their salads as fitting with fasting days!
I don't know a lot about the diet, but it does seem to work very well for some people. I'd always be wary of a diet that involves serious restriction though, just because it's next to impossible to maintain in the long-term. You do it for say, three months, drop dress sizes and all is well, but what happens when you reach your goal and start eating normally again? Surely you put it all back on?
I reached my goal before I even started eating this way. What happens now? Oh wait. I still lose weight, I still have more energy than every before & I sleep better than I have in years.
I do 4:3 rather than 5:2 just cause with my ADHD routine is easier for me. So every 3rd day is a fasting day for me. My 6th one was yesterday & I loved it as much as the 1st one. I've lost an extra 2.5kg and dont feel hungry on it at all till about 1pm the following day. I eat normal on the non-fast days (actually I eat quite well and still manage to just hit TDEE) and stress less about counting calories.
It's not hard to eat so little. Yesterday consisted of hot water to drink. Then a 10km run & managed to still hit 40,000 steps. Fast day before that I ate about 250cals I think & still did my normal daily workout. Soooooooooooo much energy & I love this WOE so much that it IS my new way of eating....for life.0 -
It's a fad at the moment in that it's suddenly become the popular diet method, even though it has been around for a while. I've even seen adverts outside Pizza Express advertising their salads as fitting with fasting days!
I don't know a lot about the diet, but it does seem to work very well for some people. I'd always be wary of a diet that involves serious restriction though, just because it's next to impossible to maintain in the long-term. You do it for say, three months, drop dress sizes and all is well, but what happens when you reach your goal and start eating normally again? Surely you put it all back on?
Pizza Express... really? I'll have to keep an eye out for that! Sheer madness
As for the restriction, it is the same weekly deficit as many other diet plans. I have been on it for 18 months and, when I reach goal, I will do as everyone one else who wants to maintain does, monitor and do a modified version, maybe 1 day a week/fortnight.
Everyone who diets will have to do that anyway. And IF at least does allow you to learn what real normal eating is, you can practice that on your 'normal' eating days. It becomes very easy after a while. I have been surprised at how much my appetite has changed - I have a full button that works all by itself now - and I don't have any cravings for sweet things, or any other foods come to that.
But I would say, as I usually remember to, I know someone who absolutely hates IF as much as I love it. It really is each to his own.0 -
You know nobody is forcing anyone to do it. So if you don't like it then dont do it.
6 months ago I didnt know what 5:2 was..... if I did I would have thought people were crazy. Now I love it. I get excited about my fasting days. I look forward to them more than my normal days.
But like I said..... unless YOU are the one eating this way.... then what's the problem?0 -
I don't know a lot about the diet, but it does seem to work very well for some people. I'd always be wary of a diet that involves serious restriction though, just because it's next to impossible to maintain in the long-term. You do it for say, three months, drop dress sizes and all is well, but what happens when you reach your goal and start eating normally again? Surely you put it all back on?
That's the whole point. It's not a short term thing to lose weight. You do this long term because of the health benefits of fasting. It's a different healthier way to eat.
It's not impossible to maintain at all. Not in the slightest. I can do it on days I go to the pub and there are people who've been doing variations for this for 50+ years.0 -
I had quite a lot of weight loss success doing this for a few months last year. In the end it wasn't right for me long term, because I didn't like constantly thinking about food on my fast days. But if you are the type of person who psychologically deals with occasional extreme deprivation better than constant low level deprivation, I think it is a useful tool for long term weight maintenance.0
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It can feel like deprivation can't it
I found I could get round that following the JUDDD suggestion, always eat the same thing, plus always make sure it is highly flavoured.
I find that big flavours make me feel more fed. So I batch make veggie curries and alternate them with a simple tuna salad.
Then again it did take me a while to find my own eating pattern, 1 meal a day with miso soup and red tea during the day. Until then it did feel a bit hard.0 -
To address the issue of whether people over 60 should follow the 5:2. I am 61 and have been following the 5:2 since April 2013. Yes, I lost a lot of weight and am now at goal. What helped me stay with this plan? First of all I suffered from a lot of pain in various parts of my body from many different conditions. The 5:2 plan is partially an anti-inflammatory diet and for myself, I have been pain-free since the first week of fasting. This motivation alone caused me to stay with this plan initially. I spread my fast over three meals and a snack so never feel that hungry, other people do it in one, or two meals. Whatever works for them. My energy levels are terrific and my exercise diary will attest to that as well. I have done the 30 DS and am currently working on the Slim Down Fast video produced by Exercise TV. When my grandson visited we took part in a kick-boxing class, which I found very enjoyable and may join a gym in the fall to participate regularly. My SO&SO and I have started swimming two nights a week and walking there and back for a total of about a 40 minute walk. I definitely do not feel run-down. This week I have decided to go to maintenance and just fast on one day. If I find that I lose the health benefit of being pain free I will go back to the 5:2 and just up my calories on the other days so I don't lose weight. This is a very sustainable, healthy and delicious way to go through life. I am a vegan and don't eat a lot of fast food but I do enjoy some. I also try to eat a very balanced diet on all days, even my fasts. I would suggest that you read the book and/or watch the documentary and you will gain more of an understanding of the science behind this plan.0
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It's not like 60 is old!
And you seem to be living proof 0
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