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Should you be able to pronounce the names of product ingredients?
Replies
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Completely off the point, but I often take pleasure mispronouncing words deliberately, when talking to subject experts. It’s a habit I picked up from my Dad, who once asked a Dr for his “hobgoblin count”.
Glad I'm not the only one! My physical therapist asked where the tear on my rotator cuff was - I told her it was dorsal. She went to write it down and then exclaimed "no it isn't!"3 -
That’s where the ice cream, candy and booze lives... :drinker:SuzySunshine99 wrote: »It's almost as dumb as "Only shop on the perimeter of the grocery store".1 -
There is a rule of thumb, buried deep down in the 'don't have food that has ingredients you can't pronounce' statement, that matters, I actually think. But like most things, it's easier to make a catchy phrase to summarize the entire concept, and then some folks start treating the catchy phrase as though it's reality rather than a summation that has meaning behind the words.
And in this case, I've always taken this to mean, basically: don't eat things unless you know what they are.
Or in a more expanded version: a company is a business and it is not their job to keep you safe, so don't eat things unless you know what they are and, as a result, know they are relatively safe.
This is not new, it's just a new riff on an old theme - I mean, you can find old texts giving advice to housewives on how to check if a vendor is doctoring their meat to make it look pinker, or cutting flour with talcum, etc...
Companies today just do the same thing with laws and convolution, including sometimes trying to hide what ingredients are present with words that are hard to comprehend, or conversely, with words that are easy to comprehend but give the wrong impression. (they do not use technical words AND simplistic ones in the same product for no reason, you know?)
Like, for example, you often see 'celery extract' as an ingredient and you think - hey, I know what an extract is, I know celery, I got this!
Except, no, we don't, because extract has a legal meaning in the marketplace, not just linguistic, and it just means 'something you extracted from X.' And if, say, you extract nitrates from celery, you can call it 'celery extract.' And even more fun, you can actually put on the label 'no nitrates added,' because they weren't. Only celery extract was added.
...sometimes, to keep the meat pinker and looking fresher. Like I said: same thing, just different techniques.
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Completely off the point, but I often take pleasure mispronouncing words deliberately, when talking to subject experts. It’s a habit I picked up from my Dad, who once asked a Dr for his “hobgoblin count”.
lol that is pretty awesome. Also reminds me of an interview with the rather incredible Dr. Richard Feynman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFIYKmos3-s
The somewhat ironic thing to this is chemical names actually do convey knowledge because chemical names are based on prefixes and suffixes that are descriptive of what the thing is.
So if you had no idea what an apple was and someone said "apple" then yeah, that tells you nothing about it...it is just a common name. But if you had never heard of dihydrogen monoxide and you knew some chemistry you'd be able to tell what it was just from the name.
That is one reason why I find it so laughable that people act like using chemical names is some sort of way of obscuring what it is....actually its the exact opposite.
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Companies today just do the same thing with laws and convolution, including sometimes trying to hide what ingredients are present with words that are hard to comprehend, or conversely, with words that are easy to comprehend but give the wrong impression. (they do not use technical words AND simplistic ones in the same product for no reason, you know?)
No..they really don't. Don't confuse the lay-public's ignorance of chemistry with attempts at misdirection or confusion. The ingredients listed on boxes are the names of those ingredients, they don't have other names and there isn't some sort of misdirection. Maltodextrine is maltodextrine...that is what it is called....if you don't know what that is I am not sure why the company that posts it as an ingredient is to blame for your lack of knowledge. I'm not claiming that everyone should know everything about everything that would be ridiculous...but to act like if you don't know something it is because of some sinister plot is a bit ridiculous too.
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Completely off the point, but I often take pleasure mispronouncing words deliberately, when talking to subject experts. It’s a habit I picked up from my Dad, who once asked a Dr for his “hobgoblin count”.
Glad I'm not the only one! My physical therapist asked where the tear on my rotator cuff was - I told her it was dorsal. She went to write it down and then exclaimed "no it isn't!"
Did you say that on...porpoise?
(I'll just get my coat)6 -
Completely off the point, but I often take pleasure mispronouncing words deliberately, when talking to subject experts. It’s a habit I picked up from my Dad, who once asked a Dr for his “hobgoblin count”.
my husband does that. It annoys me. He pronounces jalapeno "gel-opp-uh-no" and he pronounces paprika "pa-parka"
On that note, he thinks it's stupid that words are not pronounced in the way they look like they should (such as thyme) and he will just say it with the "th" sound even though he knows it's wrong.0 -
I remember a thread a few years ago where someone posted this.
I asked what scary words she was talking about and she gave the examples of Thiamine and Riboflavin
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Runaroundafieldx2 wrote: »I remember a thread a few years ago where someone posted this.
I asked what scary words she was talking about and she gave the examples of Thiamine and Riboflavin
I hope she never gets prescribed Cyanocobalamin. She might think her doctor is trying to poison her.5 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »I mean just a quick primer on how to pronounce "chemical-sounding" names.
Chemical names are derived from a collection of descriptive prefixes and suffixes that are often latin or greek derived. Our language is latin/greek derived so much of the pronounciation is the same. The reason chemical names look so strange is in our language latin prefixes are attached to some root where a lot of chemical names are just a bunch of prefixes and suffixes strung together.
So using your examples
ergocalciferol. Ergo-calci-fer-ol. Ergo as in...well...ergo in latin for work. Calci- as in calcium. Fer as in ferrous, as in iron, -ol as in acohol as in an -OH group.
So from the name I can guess this compound has something to do with iron and calcium and probably has an alcohol group and I know how to pronounce it it Ergo-calci-fer-ol...even though i have never seen that name before because I know how to pronounce ergo, calcium, ferrous and alcohol so I just string those together ergo-calci-fer-ol
That is the thing with chemical names, they are actually more descriptive than standard names like Apple. Apple doesn't tell you anything unless you know what an apple is already. But Ergocalciferol tells me whatever it is has something to do with iron calcium and likely has an alcohol group in it. So if i basically just interpreted the name it would be something that works with iron and calcium and is an alcohol (ie it has an -OH group on it somewhere).
cholecalciferol
Chole- as in cholesterol
Calci- as in calcium
fer- as in ferrous
ol as in alchol. So if you can say cholesterol, calcium, ferrous and alcohol you can say chole-calci-fer-ol
nicotinamide riboside
Nicotin- as in nicotine
-amide as in, well, amide...that one is a chemical term
Ribo- as in ribose
-ide is a chemistry suffix to name the negative ion such as chloride (Cl-) or hydroxide (OH-)
So Nicotin-amide Ribos-ide
dihydrogen monoxide
Di- as in the latin for two
Hydrogen, as in hydrogen
Mon- as in the latin for one
Ox - as in oxygen
-ide is a chemistry suffix
So Di-hydrogen Mon-ox-ide
Each of these names tells you something about either what it is made of or what it does.
-ide also has meaning; usually 2 different elements in the compound.
Off topic sort of: As a chemistry major in college, I took great pleasure in reading shampoo labels when visiting friends (any label, really) and trying to build the molecular structures in my head. That was before this 'clean' movement so most people thought I was really weird.2 -
I think the bottom-line stupidity of "don't eat it if you can't pronounce it" is that most people have their phones with them when they shop. If you can't pronounce it or don't know what it is, look it up, for pete's sake! Most of us aren't going to know the definition and pronunciation of words we don't use in everyday life, but we all know how to type the word into google and educate ourselves. People could get away with making up a woo rule like that in the days where you'd have to carry around a dictionary to look things up, but there's just no excuse in 2018.4
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I think the bottom-line stupidity of "don't eat it if you can't pronounce it" is that most people have their phones with them when they shop. If you can't pronounce it or don't know what it is, look it up, for pete's sake! Most of us aren't going to know the definition and pronunciation of words we don't use in everyday life, but we all know how to type the word into google and educate ourselves. People could get away with making up a woo rule like that in the days where you'd have to carry around a dictionary to look things up, but there's just no excuse in 2018.
I find myself saying this about a lot of things.
I see someone whinging on TV about getting ripped off at the car dealer. Didn't they spend some time reviewing car buying or financing tips to learn that paying $1k for pin strips and fuzzy dice was a bad idea. Or that they might want to see if they can get a better interest rate/terms from a bank not being sold by the dealer? Or what others were paying for the new car they are looking at.
It's hard to feel sorry for people who don't even take 30 seconds to do a bit of research.
(But I have enjoyed the look on the guy/gal in the finance office when they give the doom and gloom scenarios about what might happen if you don't get the extended warranty. I suggest that perhaps buying the car isn't such a good idea if they have to offer extended warranties as part of the sale. Or that I could put that sort of money into repairing or upgrading my existing car with new wheels or a bluetooth head unit and not have to spend $30k on a new one....)
It's not just food ingredients, it's a whole host of things.
But then again, people think ACV is going to cure them.
Hope sells.
It may not work, at least not on it's own, but it sure sells.3 -
tbright1965 wrote: »I think the bottom-line stupidity of "don't eat it if you can't pronounce it" is that most people have their phones with them when they shop. If you can't pronounce it or don't know what it is, look it up, for pete's sake! Most of us aren't going to know the definition and pronunciation of words we don't use in everyday life, but we all know how to type the word into google and educate ourselves. People could get away with making up a woo rule like that in the days where you'd have to carry around a dictionary to look things up, but there's just no excuse in 2018.
I find myself saying this about a lot of things.
I see someone whinging on TV about getting ripped off at the car dealer. Didn't they spend some time reviewing car buying or financing tips to learn that paying $1k for pin strips and fuzzy dice was a bad idea. Or that they might want to see if they can get a better interest rate/terms from a bank not being sold by the dealer? Or what others were paying for the new car they are looking at.
It's hard to feel sorry for people who don't even take 30 seconds to do a bit of research.
(But I have enjoyed the look on the guy/gal in the finance office when they give the doom and gloom scenarios about what might happen if you don't get the extended warranty. I suggest that perhaps buying the car isn't such a good idea if they have to offer extended warranties as part of the sale. Or that I could put that sort of money into repairing or upgrading my existing car with new wheels or a bluetooth head unit and not have to spend $30k on a new one....)
It's not just food ingredients, it's a whole host of things.
But then again, people think ACV is going to cure them.
Hope sells.
It may not work, at least not on it's own, but it sure sells.
I hate buying cars with a passion that's deeper than the pits of hell. The last one we bought (a couple of years ago) was a used car from a dealer with multiple lots and every car inventoried on-line. We picked a couple of cars, went to the lot, test-drove them and made a decision. We were firm we weren't paying one cent more than the advertised price, which involved taking off several add-ons that didn't appear in the on-line description. Then we sat through half an hour of the finance guy coming up with all the extras we "needed" to save money, to the tune of $3000. At the end of that we told him we were paying exactly what was advertised on-line. We were then subtly shamed for being cheap throughout the rest of the proceedings. And that was one of the better experiences I've had. If we hadn't done due diligence ahead of time, we could have easily paid $5000 more.
OK, whew, got that out
Just wanted to add that potato chips only have 3 ingredients - potatoes, oil and salt. I don't know any definition that make them anything but highly processed food, in spite of the pronounceable ingredient list. 10 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »I mean just a quick primer on how to pronounce "chemical-sounding" names.
Chemical names are derived from a collection of descriptive prefixes and suffixes that are often latin or greek derived. Our language is latin/greek derived so much of the pronounciation is the same. The reason chemical names look so strange is in our language latin prefixes are attached to some root where a lot of chemical names are just a bunch of prefixes and suffixes strung together.
So using your examples
ergocalciferol. Ergo-calci-fer-ol. Ergo as in...well...ergo in latin for work. Calci- as in calcium. Fer as in ferrous, as in iron, -ol as in acohol as in an -OH group.
So from the name I can guess this compound has something to do with iron and calcium and probably has an alcohol group and I know how to pronounce it it Ergo-calci-fer-ol...even though i have never seen that name before because I know how to pronounce ergo, calcium, ferrous and alcohol so I just string those together ergo-calci-fer-ol
That is the thing with chemical names, they are actually more descriptive than standard names like Apple. Apple doesn't tell you anything unless you know what an apple is already. But Ergocalciferol tells me whatever it is has something to do with iron calcium and likely has an alcohol group in it. So if i basically just interpreted the name it would be something that works with iron and calcium and is an alcohol (ie it has an -OH group on it somewhere).
cholecalciferol
Chole- as in cholesterol
Calci- as in calcium
fer- as in ferrous
ol as in alchol. So if you can say cholesterol, calcium, ferrous and alcohol you can say chole-calci-fer-ol
nicotinamide riboside
Nicotin- as in nicotine
-amide as in, well, amide...that one is a chemical term
Ribo- as in ribose
-ide is a chemistry suffix to name the negative ion such as chloride (Cl-) or hydroxide (OH-)
So Nicotin-amide Ribos-ide
dihydrogen monoxide
Di- as in the latin for two
Hydrogen, as in hydrogen
Mon- as in the latin for one
Ox - as in oxygen
-ide is a chemistry suffix
So Di-hydrogen Mon-ox-ide
Each of these names tells you something about either what it is made of or what it does.
-ide also has meaning; usually 2 different elements in the compound.
Off topic sort of: As a chemistry major in college, I took great pleasure in reading shampoo labels when visiting friends (any label, really) and trying to build the molecular structures in my head. That was before this 'clean' movement so most people thought I was really weird.
Now they probably just assume you are a shill.
My background is biology not chemistry, I just happen to have the basics in chemistry. If I butchered anything above my apologies. I guess I knew that about -ide but wasn't sure how that related to -amide....because I am not sure what the "am" part would reference. I mean I know what an amide is...but I never thought of it as being an -am-ide. I guess come to think of it though am-monia, am-ine, am-ino...all have nitrogen, so i'd guess am- refers to nitrogen?2 -
tbright1965 wrote: »I think the bottom-line stupidity of "don't eat it if you can't pronounce it" is that most people have their phones with them when they shop. If you can't pronounce it or don't know what it is, look it up, for pete's sake! Most of us aren't going to know the definition and pronunciation of words we don't use in everyday life, but we all know how to type the word into google and educate ourselves. People could get away with making up a woo rule like that in the days where you'd have to carry around a dictionary to look things up, but there's just no excuse in 2018.
I find myself saying this about a lot of things.
I see someone whinging on TV about getting ripped off at the car dealer. Didn't they spend some time reviewing car buying or financing tips to learn that paying $1k for pin strips and fuzzy dice was a bad idea. Or that they might want to see if they can get a better interest rate/terms from a bank not being sold by the dealer? Or what others were paying for the new car they are looking at.
It's hard to feel sorry for people who don't even take 30 seconds to do a bit of research.
(But I have enjoyed the look on the guy/gal in the finance office when they give the doom and gloom scenarios about what might happen if you don't get the extended warranty. I suggest that perhaps buying the car isn't such a good idea if they have to offer extended warranties as part of the sale. Or that I could put that sort of money into repairing or upgrading my existing car with new wheels or a bluetooth head unit and not have to spend $30k on a new one....)
It's not just food ingredients, it's a whole host of things.
But then again, people think ACV is going to cure them.
Hope sells.
It may not work, at least not on it's own, but it sure sells.
I hate buying cars with a passion that's deeper than the pits of hell. The last one we bought (a couple of years ago) was a used car from a dealer with multiple lots and every car inventoried on-line. We picked a couple of cars, went to the lot, test-drove them and made a decision. We were firm we weren't paying one cent more than the advertised price, which involved taking off several add-ons that didn't appear in the on-line description. Then we sat through half an hour of the finance guy coming up with all the extras we "needed" to save money, to the tune of $3000. At the end of that we told him we were paying exactly what was advertised on-line. We were then subtly shamed for being cheap throughout the rest of the proceedings. And that was one of the better experiences I've had. If we hadn't done due diligence ahead of time, we could have easily paid $5000 more.
OK, whew, got that out Just wanted to add that potato chips only have 3 ingredients - potatoes, oil and salt. I don't know any definition that make them anything but highly processed food, in spite of the pronounceable ingredient list.
I start lowing my offer after 30 minutes. My time is worth something. Really gets the salesperson's attention. If my next offer is $100 less than the last I say my time is worth something, and we are moving on to the next hour, so I'm less willing to pay and am offering $100 less.
That puts an end to the games really quick. Of course, I have more cars than drivers, so I DON'T need to buy a new car today...
Which reminds me, a local MegaPlex dealer has on their sign, "A car sale is like a sunrise...."
And then the next screen is something about don't miss it.
But my thoughts were:
1. There is a sunrise everyday.
2. Some are better than others.
3. No need to hurry for a sunrise.
4. Sunrises are free.
I could probably come up with more. That was what I thought of at the red light.
5 -
I have a Italian friend who won't let me say the word "gnocchi" in her presence because I can't pronounce it well enough to please her highly-discriminating Italian-raised ear. (She does lets me eat the small potato dumplings in question, but only if I can do so without saying their name.)
Does that mean that gnocchi are bad for me? Or are they healthier if eaten in the presence of people less picky about Italian pronunciation?
Prosciutto has even greater health risks for me when within the hearing of this friend; because, while I can say the word to her standards, I can never resist the temptation to pronounce it "pro-se-cute-oo" or "per-se-cute-oo." Then she hits me.
But not very hard. She only hits hard when I pronounce it "pros-ti-tut-o."
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I can pronounce all that crap. I've taken plenty of chem classes and I'm a proficient reader with a strong phonics background. Even if I don't know what something is, I can sound it out properly following basic rules of the language. Because I can "speak" the ingredients properly, does it make it safer for me to eat certain things than it is for someone who is less educated and can't pronounce the ingredients? I guess an illiterate person has to starve to death.
I don't see how being able to read/pronounce words has any bearing on the safety of a product. The definition of a word is more important than the spelling. If there's a harmless (or even beneficial) chemical compound with a complicated name in my protein bar, I don't care. If there's something toxic in there I don't care how easy it is to say (take lead, for example) I'm not having it. Who cares if you can say it or not? If you don't know what something is, you have access to all kinds of information online - look it up.4 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »I mean just a quick primer on how to pronounce "chemical-sounding" names.
Chemical names are derived from a collection of descriptive prefixes and suffixes that are often latin or greek derived. Our language is latin/greek derived so much of the pronounciation is the same. The reason chemical names look so strange is in our language latin prefixes are attached to some root where a lot of chemical names are just a bunch of prefixes and suffixes strung together.
So using your examples
ergocalciferol. Ergo-calci-fer-ol. Ergo as in...well...ergo in latin for work. Calci- as in calcium. Fer as in ferrous, as in iron, -ol as in acohol as in an -OH group.
So from the name I can guess this compound has something to do with iron and calcium and probably has an alcohol group and I know how to pronounce it it Ergo-calci-fer-ol...even though i have never seen that name before because I know how to pronounce ergo, calcium, ferrous and alcohol so I just string those together ergo-calci-fer-ol
That is the thing with chemical names, they are actually more descriptive than standard names like Apple. Apple doesn't tell you anything unless you know what an apple is already. But Ergocalciferol tells me whatever it is has something to do with iron calcium and likely has an alcohol group in it. So if i basically just interpreted the name it would be something that works with iron and calcium and is an alcohol (ie it has an -OH group on it somewhere).
cholecalciferol
Chole- as in cholesterol
Calci- as in calcium
fer- as in ferrous
ol as in alchol. So if you can say cholesterol, calcium, ferrous and alcohol you can say chole-calci-fer-ol
nicotinamide riboside
Nicotin- as in nicotine
-amide as in, well, amide...that one is a chemical term
Ribo- as in ribose
-ide is a chemistry suffix to name the negative ion such as chloride (Cl-) or hydroxide (OH-)
So Nicotin-amide Ribos-ide
dihydrogen monoxide
Di- as in the latin for two
Hydrogen, as in hydrogen
Mon- as in the latin for one
Ox - as in oxygen
-ide is a chemistry suffix
So Di-hydrogen Mon-ox-ide
Each of these names tells you something about either what it is made of or what it does.
-ide also has meaning; usually 2 different elements in the compound.
Off topic sort of: As a chemistry major in college, I took great pleasure in reading shampoo labels when visiting friends (any label, really) and trying to build the molecular structures in my head. That was before this 'clean' movement so most people thought I was really weird.
Now they probably just assume you are a shill.
My background is biology not chemistry, I just happen to have the basics in chemistry. If I butchered anything above my apologies. I guess I knew that about -ide but wasn't sure how that related to -amide....because I am not sure what the "am" part would reference. I mean I know what an amide is...but I never thought of it as being an -am-ide. I guess come to think of it though am-monia, am-ine, am-ino...all have nitrogen, so i'd guess am- refers to nitrogen?
Well, I can't claim you butchered anything...I studied 20 years ago and I haven't used it since. I've forgotten much and am likely worse than the average lay person because I think I know things. In fact, I might be wrong already, because I think -ide in amide identifies the ion. I should step back anyway, as NO one ever said "dihydrogen monoxide" back then. I don't know where that ever came from. I'm sure there are more chem savvy people on this forum than me....maybe they'll comment....1 -
My response always to the 'don't eat if you can't pronounce it' mantra is to ask what happens if I have a lisp and I can't pronounce spinach - I shouldn't eat it????
What if I have a disability and I can't speak at all and therefore can't pronounce anything - what do I eat????
That is a rhetorical question, of course - but I think demonstrates how silly such a rule is.3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Companies today just do the same thing with laws and convolution, including sometimes trying to hide what ingredients are present with words that are hard to comprehend, or conversely, with words that are easy to comprehend but give the wrong impression. (they do not use technical words AND simplistic ones in the same product for no reason, you know?)
No..they really don't. Don't confuse the lay-public's ignorance of chemistry with attempts at misdirection or confusion. The ingredients listed on boxes are the names of those ingredients, they don't have other names and there isn't some sort of misdirection. Maltodextrine is maltodextrine...that is what it is called....if you don't know what that is I am not sure why the company that posts it as an ingredient is to blame for your lack of knowledge. I'm not claiming that everyone should know everything about everything that would be ridiculous...but to act like if you don't know something it is because of some sinister plot is a bit ridiculous too.
If there's a widely understood word for something (e.g., water), and manufacturers intentionally use a different word or phrase relatively few people understand (e.g., dihydrogen monoxide), yeah, I'm pretty sure they're intentionally trying to confuse.
My favorite example of this, although not a chemical name, is labels that list "evaporated cane juice" as an ingredient. Because they don't want consumers to know the food product has sugar in it.4
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