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What are some of your unpopular opinions about food?

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  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 5,654 Member Member Posts: 5,654 Member
    VegjoyP wrote: »
    Black jellybeans are awesome, Licorice is awesome. Nuts should not be in in chocolate unless they are nut butter. Pizza is sickening except white pizza, pasta and bread are a waist of calories and if you do have spagetti or pasta its only good with butter, no tomato.
    Funny thing is I am Italian! Cake is only good as batter. Uncooked. The frosting is what matters.
    Carnival food is the worst and is directly from the devil 😂

    Wow, you're like the anti-me. They say everyone has a twin out there somewhere, but apparently, everyone has an exact opposite as well. I strongly disagree with each and every thing you listed. :D

    Heh, I'm with you, except that for me bread can be (but certainly isn't always) wasted cals, and I don't think I even really know what carnival food is (I dislike cotton candy, if that's what is being discussed).
  • SuzySunshine99SuzySunshine99 Member Posts: 1,750 Member Member Posts: 1,750 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    VegjoyP wrote: »
    Black jellybeans are awesome, Licorice is awesome. Nuts should not be in in chocolate unless they are nut butter. Pizza is sickening except white pizza, pasta and bread are a waist of calories and if you do have spagetti or pasta its only good with butter, no tomato.
    Funny thing is I am Italian! Cake is only good as batter. Uncooked. The frosting is what matters.
    Carnival food is the worst and is directly from the devil 😂

    Wow, you're like the anti-me. They say everyone has a twin out there somewhere, but apparently, everyone has an exact opposite as well. I strongly disagree with each and every thing you listed. :D

    Heh, I'm with you, except that for me bread can be (but certainly isn't always) wasted cals, and I don't think I even really know what carnival food is (I dislike cotton candy, if that's what is being discussed).

    Oh, yeah, no to the cotton candy, but I was thinking more like funnel cakes, churros, doughnuts, corn on the cob, etc. Not stuff you'd want all the time, but it has its place once a year.
    edited May 27
  • ccrdragonccrdragon Member Posts: 2,704 Member Member Posts: 2,704 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    VegjoyP wrote: »
    Black jellybeans are awesome, Licorice is awesome. Nuts should not be in in chocolate unless they are nut butter. Pizza is sickening except white pizza, pasta and bread are a waist of calories and if you do have spagetti or pasta its only good with butter, no tomato.
    Funny thing is I am Italian! Cake is only good as batter. Uncooked. The frosting is what matters.
    Carnival food is the worst and is directly from the devil 😂

    Wow, you're like the anti-me. They say everyone has a twin out there somewhere, but apparently, everyone has an exact opposite as well. I strongly disagree with each and every thing you listed. :D

    Heh, I'm with you, except that for me bread can be (but certainly isn't always) wasted cals, and I don't think I even really know what carnival food is (I dislike cotton candy, if that's what is being discussed).

    I would consider cotton candy, funnel cakes, fried 'insert food type', turkey legs, etc to be carnival food. With the exception of the turkey legs and fried cheese, I am a hard pass on the carnival food.
    edited May 27
  • VegjoyPVegjoyP Member Posts: 921 Member Member Posts: 921 Member
    Katmary71 wrote: »
    VegjoyP wrote: »
    Black jellybeans are awesome, Licorice is awesome. Nuts should not be in in chocolate unless they are nut butter. Pizza is sickening except white pizza, pasta and bread are a waist of calories and if you do have spagetti or pasta its only good with butter, no tomato.
    Funny thing is I am Italian! Cake is only good as batter. Uncooked. The frosting is what matters.
    Carnival food is the worst and is directly from the devil 😂

    I had to laugh at this, especially when I saw it was you because I love all the desserts you post on the no calorie thread! Totally agree licorice is awesome, fennel is the perfect combo of veggie and anise! Prefer no nuts in chocolate too though chocolate and nut butter's one of my favorites. I used to hate tomato sauce and only eat pasta with butter and cheese (Spaghetti Factory's brown butter and mizithra cheese was my favorite thing to eat and I still love it), would pick white pizza or pesto pizza over tomatoes though heirloom tomatoes on it would be great. Frosting rocks over cake any day, I'll eat people's leftover frosting if I can get away with it and not look like a pig, never met the "it's too rich for me" frosting and I took cake decorating classes for half a year. Having your own bowl of buttercream frosting is dangerous!

    Love it! Yes, Brown butter! 😁🤗 I don't generally eat any aweets anymore and candy, etc. BUT.... when I may be in a rare place in occasion I will have to seriously restrain myself from sneaking the frosting, icing or peanut butter.... 😂
    edited May 27
  • pancakerunnerpancakerunner Member Posts: 4,136 Member Member Posts: 4,136 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    VegjoyP wrote: »
    Black jellybeans are awesome, Licorice is awesome. Nuts should not be in in chocolate unless they are nut butter. Pizza is sickening except white pizza, pasta and bread are a waist of calories and if you do have spagetti or pasta its only good with butter, no tomato.
    Funny thing is I am Italian! Cake is only good as batter. Uncooked. The frosting is what matters.
    Carnival food is the worst and is directly from the devil 😂

    Wow, you're like the anti-me. They say everyone has a twin out there somewhere, but apparently, everyone has an exact opposite as well. I strongly disagree with each and every thing you listed. :D

    Heh, I'm with you, except that for me bread can be (but certainly isn't always) wasted cals, and I don't think I even really know what carnival food is (I dislike cotton candy, if that's what is being discussed).

    Oh, yeah, no to the cotton candy, but I was thinking more like funnel cakes, churros, doughnuts, corn on the cob, etc. Not stuff you'd want all the time, but it has its place once a year.

    only good carnival or fair food is 1.) deep fried cheese curds, 2.) pickle on a stick and 3.) pronto pup

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  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 5,654 Member Member Posts: 5,654 Member
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    VegjoyP wrote: »
    Black jellybeans are awesome, Licorice is awesome. Nuts should not be in in chocolate unless they are nut butter. Pizza is sickening except white pizza, pasta and bread are a waist of calories and if you do have spagetti or pasta its only good with butter, no tomato.
    Funny thing is I am Italian! Cake is only good as batter. Uncooked. The frosting is what matters.
    Carnival food is the worst and is directly from the devil 😂

    Wow, you're like the anti-me. They say everyone has a twin out there somewhere, but apparently, everyone has an exact opposite as well. I strongly disagree with each and every thing you listed. :D

    Heh, I'm with you, except that for me bread can be (but certainly isn't always) wasted cals, and I don't think I even really know what carnival food is (I dislike cotton candy, if that's what is being discussed).

    I would consider cotton candy, funnel cakes, fried 'insert food type', turkey legs, etc to be carnival food. With the exception of the turkey legs and fried cheese, I am a hard pass on the carnival food.

    I don't think I've been to a carnival since I was a kid (and this was in Anchorage, AK, so likely we didn't have all the stuff). I suppose this makes me weird, but I don't think I've ever had funnel cake. I am fascinated by state fair stuff (which is distinct in my mind from carnival foods), but haven't made it to a state fair as an adult either, even though I would like to go.

    I hate messy food (that was my issue with the big turkey legs when we had them at something as a kid), so that might be a problem for me. (I used to do Taste of Chicago, but realized crowds + trying to eat food that could be messy while walking around in super hot weather is something I am now too old for. And I think I realized that around age 30!) ;-)
  • pancakerunnerpancakerunner Member Posts: 4,136 Member Member Posts: 4,136 Member
    Pasta, pizza, risotto, and breads do not make you fat---it's the quantities and the heavy sauces.

    Quantities, yes. Also... glucose overload from carbs. Also inflammation from processed oils. I disagree that it is the heavy sauces (if made with quality fat).
    edited May 27
  • pancakerunnerpancakerunner Member Posts: 4,136 Member Member Posts: 4,136 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Pasta, pizza, risotto, and breads do not make you fat---it's the quantities and the heavy sauces.

    Quantities, yes. Also... glucose overload from carbs. Also inflammation from processed oils. I disagree that it is the heavy sauces (if made with quality fat).

    I think snowflake954 is exactly right. The issue with certain so-called carb-based dishes people frequently eat is the calories (and a surprising amount of those cals are from fat if you think of them as "carb" dishes). For example, people think of pasta dishes as "carbs" (and indeed in many restaurants the serving size of the pasta itself is nuts), but more often a majority of the cals are from the fat in the sauce. This is especially true for white sauces, but at a restaurant (and for some people when home made) you may well be getting fat from cheese and butter or olive oil or heavy cream not to mention higher fat meat.

    My most common ways of making pasta (56 g or less) is (1) with lots of veg, shrimp (or other lean meat) and a limited amount of olive oil with the only other fat a little feta or, in the alternative, olives or pine nuts or other nuts/seeds, and (2) with a tomato-based sauce with a bit of olive oil, lean ground beef and lots of veg, and in either case I get a meal that has nothing like the macros or cals as some of the most popular pasta-based restaurant meals.

    Unless "processed oils" is supposed to include olive oil, I don't even get why that would be associated with pastas (let alone risotto, bread, or a well-made pizza). Pizza (a good one, not some mass market chain) typically uses olive oil, IME, and pasta will use olive oil or butter depending on the dish. Risotto, of course, calls for butter, and most bread doesn't include any fat until you add butter or dip it in olive oil.

    Re my pasta meals, there are no ill-effects such as inflammation or "glucose overload," nor are the cals higher than my normal meals (and thus no weight gain unless other food eaten throughout the day causes me to go over my cals).

    I will say this: there is something to be said about the ingredients used and preparation. I can only speak for what I see here in the US, but I do believe that a diet high in carbs and omega-6 fats creates hormone imbalance and insatiability, which leads to weight gain.

    pasta + olive oil + protein + full fat feta? Sounds perfectly balanced. But that's not the case for majority of people (at least here in the states) who are eating pasta with sauces made with vegetable oils, tomato sauces with sugar, etc.
  • snowflake954snowflake954 Member Posts: 5,111 Member Member Posts: 5,111 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Pasta, pizza, risotto, and breads do not make you fat---it's the quantities and the heavy sauces.

    Quantities, yes. Also... glucose overload from carbs. Also inflammation from processed oils. I disagree that it is the heavy sauces (if made with quality fat).

    I think snowflake954 is exactly right. The issue with certain so-called carb-based dishes people frequently eat is the calories (and a surprising amount of those cals are from fat if you think of them as "carb" dishes). For example, people think of pasta dishes as "carbs" (and indeed in many restaurants the serving size of the pasta itself is nuts), but more often a majority of the cals are from the fat in the sauce. This is especially true for white sauces, but at a restaurant (and for some people when home made) you may well be getting fat from cheese and butter or olive oil or heavy cream not to mention higher fat meat.

    My most common ways of making pasta (56 g or less) is (1) with lots of veg, shrimp (or other lean meat) and a limited amount of olive oil with the only other fat a little feta or, in the alternative, olives or pine nuts or other nuts/seeds, and (2) with a tomato-based sauce with a bit of olive oil, lean ground beef and lots of veg, and in either case I get a meal that has nothing like the macros or cals as some of the most popular pasta-based restaurant meals.

    Unless "processed oils" is supposed to include olive oil, I don't even get why that would be associated with pastas (let alone risotto, bread, or a well-made pizza). Pizza (a good one, not some mass market chain) typically uses olive oil, IME, and pasta will use olive oil or butter depending on the dish. Risotto, of course, calls for butter, and most bread doesn't include any fat until you add butter or dip it in olive oil.

    Re my pasta meals, there are no ill-effects such as inflammation or "glucose overload," nor are the cals higher than my normal meals (and thus no weight gain unless other food eaten throughout the day causes me to go over my cals).

    I will say this: there is something to be said about the ingredients used and preparation. I can only speak for what I see here in the US, but I do believe that a diet high in carbs and omega-6 fats creates hormone imbalance and insatiability, which leads to weight gain.

    pasta + olive oil + protein + full fat feta? Sounds perfectly balanced. But that's not the case for majority of people (at least here in the states) who are eating pasta with sauces made with vegetable oils, tomato sauces with sugar, etc.

    You know Lemur...right about now I really miss that fantastic thread done by the body builder with perfect blood work that ate junk food as an experiment, documented it and found out that IT MADE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE and he got ripped over a couple of years. People used to argue that it wasn't possible, but he had the pics and the blood work results. He was surprised himself.
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Member, Premium Posts: 16,446 Member Member, Premium Posts: 16,446 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Pasta, pizza, risotto, and breads do not make you fat---it's the quantities and the heavy sauces.

    Quantities, yes. Also... glucose overload from carbs. Also inflammation from processed oils. I disagree that it is the heavy sauces (if made with quality fat).

    I think snowflake954 is exactly right. The issue with certain so-called carb-based dishes people frequently eat is the calories (and a surprising amount of those cals are from fat if you think of them as "carb" dishes). For example, people think of pasta dishes as "carbs" (and indeed in many restaurants the serving size of the pasta itself is nuts), but more often a majority of the cals are from the fat in the sauce. This is especially true for white sauces, but at a restaurant (and for some people when home made) you may well be getting fat from cheese and butter or olive oil or heavy cream not to mention higher fat meat.

    My most common ways of making pasta (56 g or less) is (1) with lots of veg, shrimp (or other lean meat) and a limited amount of olive oil with the only other fat a little feta or, in the alternative, olives or pine nuts or other nuts/seeds, and (2) with a tomato-based sauce with a bit of olive oil, lean ground beef and lots of veg, and in either case I get a meal that has nothing like the macros or cals as some of the most popular pasta-based restaurant meals.

    Unless "processed oils" is supposed to include olive oil, I don't even get why that would be associated with pastas (let alone risotto, bread, or a well-made pizza). Pizza (a good one, not some mass market chain) typically uses olive oil, IME, and pasta will use olive oil or butter depending on the dish. Risotto, of course, calls for butter, and most bread doesn't include any fat until you add butter or dip it in olive oil.

    Re my pasta meals, there are no ill-effects such as inflammation or "glucose overload," nor are the cals higher than my normal meals (and thus no weight gain unless other food eaten throughout the day causes me to go over my cals).

    I will say this: there is something to be said about the ingredients used and preparation. I can only speak for what I see here in the US, but I do believe that a diet high in carbs and omega-6 fats creates hormone imbalance and insatiability, which leads to weight gain.

    pasta + olive oil + protein + full fat feta? Sounds perfectly balanced. But that's not the case for majority of people (at least here in the states) who are eating pasta with sauces made with vegetable oils, tomato sauces with sugar, etc.

    You know Lemur...right about now I really miss that fantastic thread done by the body builder with perfect blood work that ate junk food as an experiment, documented it and found out that IT MADE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE and he got ripped over a couple of years. People used to argue that it wasn't possible, but he had the pics and the blood work results. He was surprised himself.

    @DVDgzz.

    His eating record is also here, in great detail, along with an after-ish profile photo:

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141807961&p=822484731#post822484731

    The first post on that thread gives a verbal summary of his starting point.

    To be fair, I think it was more than "a couple of years". The thread at Bodybuilding runs from 2012 to 2018, and says what his Insta account is.

    There is (or at least used to be) a general-participation thread around here (i.e., not his deleted thread) with a before-ish photo of him as . . . well, let's just say, with a higher body fat % by a good bit, and what appeared to be less muscle mass, besides. But he's been at this stuff a long time.
    (ETA, Before-ish pic is here: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/43824947#Comment_43824947 )


    Mostly just after-ish pics on his profile page here: https://www.myfitnesspal.com/photos/view/106195216

    Gotta keep it in proportion, though: He works out, and is active in daily life, in major, major ways, while eating pizza, strawberry marshmallows, cinnamon rolls, sweet cereals, fast food, and all that stuff. Also - and as a consequence - he has a TDEE that lets him "waste" a lot of calories, while still getting basic adequate macros/micros. Most of us schlepping around eating mostly sweetened cereal and Taco Bell will not achieve similar results.

    But still. :lol: Interesting.
    edited May 28
  • snowflake954snowflake954 Member Posts: 5,111 Member Member Posts: 5,111 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Pasta, pizza, risotto, and breads do not make you fat---it's the quantities and the heavy sauces.

    Quantities, yes. Also... glucose overload from carbs. Also inflammation from processed oils. I disagree that it is the heavy sauces (if made with quality fat).

    I think snowflake954 is exactly right. The issue with certain so-called carb-based dishes people frequently eat is the calories (and a surprising amount of those cals are from fat if you think of them as "carb" dishes). For example, people think of pasta dishes as "carbs" (and indeed in many restaurants the serving size of the pasta itself is nuts), but more often a majority of the cals are from the fat in the sauce. This is especially true for white sauces, but at a restaurant (and for some people when home made) you may well be getting fat from cheese and butter or olive oil or heavy cream not to mention higher fat meat.

    My most common ways of making pasta (56 g or less) is (1) with lots of veg, shrimp (or other lean meat) and a limited amount of olive oil with the only other fat a little feta or, in the alternative, olives or pine nuts or other nuts/seeds, and (2) with a tomato-based sauce with a bit of olive oil, lean ground beef and lots of veg, and in either case I get a meal that has nothing like the macros or cals as some of the most popular pasta-based restaurant meals.

    Unless "processed oils" is supposed to include olive oil, I don't even get why that would be associated with pastas (let alone risotto, bread, or a well-made pizza). Pizza (a good one, not some mass market chain) typically uses olive oil, IME, and pasta will use olive oil or butter depending on the dish. Risotto, of course, calls for butter, and most bread doesn't include any fat until you add butter or dip it in olive oil.

    Re my pasta meals, there are no ill-effects such as inflammation or "glucose overload," nor are the cals higher than my normal meals (and thus no weight gain unless other food eaten throughout the day causes me to go over my cals).

    I will say this: there is something to be said about the ingredients used and preparation. I can only speak for what I see here in the US, but I do believe that a diet high in carbs and omega-6 fats creates hormone imbalance and insatiability, which leads to weight gain.

    pasta + olive oil + protein + full fat feta? Sounds perfectly balanced. But that's not the case for majority of people (at least here in the states) who are eating pasta with sauces made with vegetable oils, tomato sauces with sugar, etc.

    You know Lemur...right about now I really miss that fantastic thread done by the body builder with perfect blood work that ate junk food as an experiment, documented it and found out that IT MADE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE and he got ripped over a couple of years. People used to argue that it wasn't possible, but he had the pics and the blood work results. He was surprised himself.

    @DVDgzz.

    His eating record is also here, in great detail, along with an after-ish profile photo:

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141807961&p=822484731#post822484731

    The first post on that thread gives a verbal summary of his starting point.

    To be fair, I think it was more than "a couple of years". The thread at Bodybuilding runs from 2012 to 2018, and says what his Insta account is.

    There is (or at least used to be) a general-participation thread around here (i.e., not his deleted thread) with a before-ish photo of him as . . . well, let's just say, with a higher body fat % by a good bit, and what appeared to be less muscle mass, besides. But he's been at this stuff a long time.
    (ETA, Before-ish pic is here: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/43824947#Comment_43824947 )


    Mostly just after-ish pics on his profile page here: https://www.myfitnesspal.com/photos/view/106195216

    Gotta keep it in proportion, though: He works out, and is active in daily life, in major, major ways, while eating pizza, strawberry marshmallows, cinnamon rolls, sweet cereals, fast food, and all that stuff. Also - and as a consequence - he has a TDEE that lets him "waste" a lot of calories, while still getting basic adequate macros/micros. Most of us schlepping around eating mostly sweetened cereal and Taco Bell will not achieve similar results.

    But still. :lol: Interesting.

    Thank you Anne. It's true that he burns more calories than most. His thread was always interesting, and so many refused to believe him.

    PS: For anyone interested click on his name and go to his profile. He has about 15 pics and you can see what eating "unhealthy" can do. ;)
    edited May 28
  • pancakerunnerpancakerunner Member Posts: 4,136 Member Member Posts: 4,136 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Pasta, pizza, risotto, and breads do not make you fat---it's the quantities and the heavy sauces.

    Quantities, yes. Also... glucose overload from carbs. Also inflammation from processed oils. I disagree that it is the heavy sauces (if made with quality fat).

    I think snowflake954 is exactly right. The issue with certain so-called carb-based dishes people frequently eat is the calories (and a surprising amount of those cals are from fat if you think of them as "carb" dishes). For example, people think of pasta dishes as "carbs" (and indeed in many restaurants the serving size of the pasta itself is nuts), but more often a majority of the cals are from the fat in the sauce. This is especially true for white sauces, but at a restaurant (and for some people when home made) you may well be getting fat from cheese and butter or olive oil or heavy cream not to mention higher fat meat.

    My most common ways of making pasta (56 g or less) is (1) with lots of veg, shrimp (or other lean meat) and a limited amount of olive oil with the only other fat a little feta or, in the alternative, olives or pine nuts or other nuts/seeds, and (2) with a tomato-based sauce with a bit of olive oil, lean ground beef and lots of veg, and in either case I get a meal that has nothing like the macros or cals as some of the most popular pasta-based restaurant meals.

    Unless "processed oils" is supposed to include olive oil, I don't even get why that would be associated with pastas (let alone risotto, bread, or a well-made pizza). Pizza (a good one, not some mass market chain) typically uses olive oil, IME, and pasta will use olive oil or butter depending on the dish. Risotto, of course, calls for butter, and most bread doesn't include any fat until you add butter or dip it in olive oil.

    Re my pasta meals, there are no ill-effects such as inflammation or "glucose overload," nor are the cals higher than my normal meals (and thus no weight gain unless other food eaten throughout the day causes me to go over my cals).

    I will say this: there is something to be said about the ingredients used and preparation. I can only speak for what I see here in the US, but I do believe that a diet high in carbs and omega-6 fats creates hormone imbalance and insatiability, which leads to weight gain.

    pasta + olive oil + protein + full fat feta? Sounds perfectly balanced. But that's not the case for majority of people (at least here in the states) who are eating pasta with sauces made with vegetable oils, tomato sauces with sugar, etc.

    You know Lemur...right about now I really miss that fantastic thread done by the body builder with perfect blood work that ate junk food as an experiment, documented it and found out that IT MADE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE and he got ripped over a couple of years. People used to argue that it wasn't possible, but he had the pics and the blood work results. He was surprised himself.

    @DVDgzz.

    His eating record is also here, in great detail, along with an after-ish profile photo:

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141807961&p=822484731#post822484731

    The first post on that thread gives a verbal summary of his starting point.

    To be fair, I think it was more than "a couple of years". The thread at Bodybuilding runs from 2012 to 2018, and says what his Insta account is.

    There is (or at least used to be) a general-participation thread around here (i.e., not his deleted thread) with a before-ish photo of him as . . . well, let's just say, with a higher body fat % by a good bit, and what appeared to be less muscle mass, besides. But he's been at this stuff a long time.
    (ETA, Before-ish pic is here: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/43824947#Comment_43824947 )


    Mostly just after-ish pics on his profile page here: https://www.myfitnesspal.com/photos/view/106195216

    Gotta keep it in proportion, though: He works out, and is active in daily life, in major, major ways, while eating pizza, strawberry marshmallows, cinnamon rolls, sweet cereals, fast food, and all that stuff. Also - and as a consequence - he has a TDEE that lets him "waste" a lot of calories, while still getting basic adequate macros/micros. Most of us schlepping around eating mostly sweetened cereal and Taco Bell will not achieve similar results.

    But still. :lol: Interesting.

    hey, good for him! but for the 85% of the population that is at a metabolic disadvantage, wouldn't say this is recommended. Also think it is worth noting he didn't comment on his hunger levels and how he felt physically/mentally.
    edited May 28
  • makinemjellismakinemjellis Member Posts: 91 Member Member Posts: 91 Member
    Bacon is overrated.
    Bananas are gross.
    Raisins should stay grapes.
  • VegjoyPVegjoyP Member Posts: 921 Member Member Posts: 921 Member
    Anything Pork is horrible and disgusting. Packaged candy is a waist of calories ( except organic chocolate and cacao)
    Fruitcake is awesome( I wish I had a gluten free healthy version 😥)
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Member, Premium Posts: 16,446 Member Member, Premium Posts: 16,446 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Pasta, pizza, risotto, and breads do not make you fat---it's the quantities and the heavy sauces.

    Quantities, yes. Also... glucose overload from carbs. Also inflammation from processed oils. I disagree that it is the heavy sauces (if made with quality fat).

    I think snowflake954 is exactly right. The issue with certain so-called carb-based dishes people frequently eat is the calories (and a surprising amount of those cals are from fat if you think of them as "carb" dishes). For example, people think of pasta dishes as "carbs" (and indeed in many restaurants the serving size of the pasta itself is nuts), but more often a majority of the cals are from the fat in the sauce. This is especially true for white sauces, but at a restaurant (and for some people when home made) you may well be getting fat from cheese and butter or olive oil or heavy cream not to mention higher fat meat.

    My most common ways of making pasta (56 g or less) is (1) with lots of veg, shrimp (or other lean meat) and a limited amount of olive oil with the only other fat a little feta or, in the alternative, olives or pine nuts or other nuts/seeds, and (2) with a tomato-based sauce with a bit of olive oil, lean ground beef and lots of veg, and in either case I get a meal that has nothing like the macros or cals as some of the most popular pasta-based restaurant meals.

    Unless "processed oils" is supposed to include olive oil, I don't even get why that would be associated with pastas (let alone risotto, bread, or a well-made pizza). Pizza (a good one, not some mass market chain) typically uses olive oil, IME, and pasta will use olive oil or butter depending on the dish. Risotto, of course, calls for butter, and most bread doesn't include any fat until you add butter or dip it in olive oil.

    Re my pasta meals, there are no ill-effects such as inflammation or "glucose overload," nor are the cals higher than my normal meals (and thus no weight gain unless other food eaten throughout the day causes me to go over my cals).

    I will say this: there is something to be said about the ingredients used and preparation. I can only speak for what I see here in the US, but I do believe that a diet high in carbs and omega-6 fats creates hormone imbalance and insatiability, which leads to weight gain.

    pasta + olive oil + protein + full fat feta? Sounds perfectly balanced. But that's not the case for majority of people (at least here in the states) who are eating pasta with sauces made with vegetable oils, tomato sauces with sugar, etc.

    You know Lemur...right about now I really miss that fantastic thread done by the body builder with perfect blood work that ate junk food as an experiment, documented it and found out that IT MADE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE and he got ripped over a couple of years. People used to argue that it wasn't possible, but he had the pics and the blood work results. He was surprised himself.

    @DVDgzz.

    His eating record is also here, in great detail, along with an after-ish profile photo:

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141807961&p=822484731#post822484731

    The first post on that thread gives a verbal summary of his starting point.

    To be fair, I think it was more than "a couple of years". The thread at Bodybuilding runs from 2012 to 2018, and says what his Insta account is.

    There is (or at least used to be) a general-participation thread around here (i.e., not his deleted thread) with a before-ish photo of him as . . . well, let's just say, with a higher body fat % by a good bit, and what appeared to be less muscle mass, besides. But he's been at this stuff a long time.
    (ETA, Before-ish pic is here: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/43824947#Comment_43824947 )


    Mostly just after-ish pics on his profile page here: https://www.myfitnesspal.com/photos/view/106195216

    Gotta keep it in proportion, though: He works out, and is active in daily life, in major, major ways, while eating pizza, strawberry marshmallows, cinnamon rolls, sweet cereals, fast food, and all that stuff. Also - and as a consequence - he has a TDEE that lets him "waste" a lot of calories, while still getting basic adequate macros/micros. Most of us schlepping around eating mostly sweetened cereal and Taco Bell will not achieve similar results.

    But still. :lol: Interesting.

    hey, good for him! but for the 85% of the population that is at a metabolic disadvantage, wouldn't say this is recommended. Also think it is worth noting he didn't comment on his hunger levels and how he felt physically/mentally.

    Actually, in the (now-deleted) thread here, I believe he did comment on those things. He still has posts here: They don't bespeak a life of misery, physically or mentally.

    I think the big variable to focus on here is not so much his "metabolic advantage" - at least not genetic metabolic factors - but the fact that he works like a demon at being fit and strong . . . and he's pretty focused about hitting nutritional goals (even though those goals are not the typical bro-goals: they're a little more mainstream).

    It's a very, very interesting case. And people are frequently "blind men and the elephant" in interpreting it (probably me included :lol: ). It challenges some cherished orthodoxies.

    We don't all want to be him, arguably can't be like him, but I don't think the biggest reason we're not (or can't) is some kind of random genetic luck.
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 5,654 Member Member Posts: 5,654 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Pasta, pizza, risotto, and breads do not make you fat---it's the quantities and the heavy sauces.

    Quantities, yes. Also... glucose overload from carbs. Also inflammation from processed oils. I disagree that it is the heavy sauces (if made with quality fat).

    I think snowflake954 is exactly right. The issue with certain so-called carb-based dishes people frequently eat is the calories (and a surprising amount of those cals are from fat if you think of them as "carb" dishes). For example, people think of pasta dishes as "carbs" (and indeed in many restaurants the serving size of the pasta itself is nuts), but more often a majority of the cals are from the fat in the sauce. This is especially true for white sauces, but at a restaurant (and for some people when home made) you may well be getting fat from cheese and butter or olive oil or heavy cream not to mention higher fat meat.

    My most common ways of making pasta (56 g or less) is (1) with lots of veg, shrimp (or other lean meat) and a limited amount of olive oil with the only other fat a little feta or, in the alternative, olives or pine nuts or other nuts/seeds, and (2) with a tomato-based sauce with a bit of olive oil, lean ground beef and lots of veg, and in either case I get a meal that has nothing like the macros or cals as some of the most popular pasta-based restaurant meals.

    Unless "processed oils" is supposed to include olive oil, I don't even get why that would be associated with pastas (let alone risotto, bread, or a well-made pizza). Pizza (a good one, not some mass market chain) typically uses olive oil, IME, and pasta will use olive oil or butter depending on the dish. Risotto, of course, calls for butter, and most bread doesn't include any fat until you add butter or dip it in olive oil.

    Re my pasta meals, there are no ill-effects such as inflammation or "glucose overload," nor are the cals higher than my normal meals (and thus no weight gain unless other food eaten throughout the day causes me to go over my cals).

    I will say this: there is something to be said about the ingredients used and preparation. I can only speak for what I see here in the US, but I do believe that a diet high in carbs and omega-6 fats creates hormone imbalance and insatiability, which leads to weight gain.

    pasta + olive oil + protein + full fat feta? Sounds perfectly balanced. But that's not the case for majority of people (at least here in the states) who are eating pasta with sauces made with vegetable oils, tomato sauces with sugar, etc.

    You know Lemur...right about now I really miss that fantastic thread done by the body builder with perfect blood work that ate junk food as an experiment, documented it and found out that IT MADE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE and he got ripped over a couple of years. People used to argue that it wasn't possible, but he had the pics and the blood work results. He was surprised himself.

    @DVDgzz.

    His eating record is also here, in great detail, along with an after-ish profile photo:

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141807961&p=822484731#post822484731

    The first post on that thread gives a verbal summary of his starting point.

    To be fair, I think it was more than "a couple of years". The thread at Bodybuilding runs from 2012 to 2018, and says what his Insta account is.

    There is (or at least used to be) a general-participation thread around here (i.e., not his deleted thread) with a before-ish photo of him as . . . well, let's just say, with a higher body fat % by a good bit, and what appeared to be less muscle mass, besides. But he's been at this stuff a long time.
    (ETA, Before-ish pic is here: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/43824947#Comment_43824947 )


    Mostly just after-ish pics on his profile page here: https://www.myfitnesspal.com/photos/view/106195216

    Gotta keep it in proportion, though: He works out, and is active in daily life, in major, major ways, while eating pizza, strawberry marshmallows, cinnamon rolls, sweet cereals, fast food, and all that stuff. Also - and as a consequence - he has a TDEE that lets him "waste" a lot of calories, while still getting basic adequate macros/micros. Most of us schlepping around eating mostly sweetened cereal and Taco Bell will not achieve similar results.

    But still. :lol: Interesting.

    hey, good for him! but for the 85% of the population that is at a metabolic disadvantage, wouldn't say this is recommended. Also think it is worth noting he didn't comment on his hunger levels and how he felt physically/mentally.

    I think the biggest issue in the US is that people eat constantly, non filling foods (high fat more than high carb if you look at the SAD numbers). And people eat a lot at desks, in the car, not in family meals, and in a lot of the US aren't active. If people are into fast food (I never was), that's a lot of cals without a lot of sating options.

    I don't think it's the carb percentage, which is the same or lower than many places which have far better weight numbers. The focus on carbs vs nutrients is, IMO, just a money-making scheme by some (like Fung) which hurts those who ideally would understand how weight loss works.

    I'm a nut for good nutrition because I think it's valuable, but I know I could lose or gain eating low or high nutrition meals. (And also low or high carb.)
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