December 2018 Monthly Running Challenge

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  • kgirlhart
    kgirlhart Posts: 5,185 Member
    @rheddmobile That is an awesome ornament! And congratulations on your silver anniversary!

    @7lenny7 I have looked Elevate, my problem is I don't really understand what my goal is. I seem to spend a lot of time in the neutral zone. Is the fitness supposed to be higher or lower than fatigue?
  • 7lenny7
    7lenny7 Posts: 3,498 Member
    kgirlhart wrote: »
    @rheddmobile That is an awesome ornament! And congratulations on your silver anniversary!

    @7lenny7 I have looked Elevate, my problem is I don't really understand what my goal is. I seem to spend a lot of time in the neutral zone. Is the fitness supposed to be higher or lower than fatigue?

    @kgirlhart Don't try to compare the fitness level with the fatigue level. They are related, but not directly.

    And I must correct my earlier post. I *DO* look at the "Form" number. I generally ignore the fatigue number. It's the Form number that tells you went you go into overtraining, or if you're fresh enough for a race. Form = Fitness minus Fatigue.

    Fatigue is the tiredness which limits your performance. Fitness is your cardiovascular foundation which allows you to increase your potential, be it distance, time or both.

    Each effort, running in this case, will add both fitness and fatigue. When you rest, fatigue is lost faster than fitness. This is what allows us to become better runners.

    If you're not putting forth enough effort, your fatigue will be low, but so will your fitness. No progress is being made.
    If you're running too much your fitness will rapidly increase but you will wear down your body and may end up injured or sick.
    The goal is to run enough to increase your fitness level as much as possible, but rest enough to keep your form out of the overload zone. Ideally, your form level will be between Optimal and Overload. If you're in the neutral zone you could probably run farther, or more often.

    From the app's help menu regarding Form:
    A Training Zone is defined by a range of Form values and Training Zones can be: Transition zone, Freshness, Neutral, Optimal and Over-Training. So, a Form value can be associated to a particular Training Zone.

    Depending on the Form value, you can manage and plan your training to reach or avoid a particular zone. So when:
    +25 < Form : Transition zone. Athlete is on form. Case where athlete has an extended break. (e.g. illness, injury or end of the season).
    +5 < Form < +25 : Freshness Zone. Athlete is on form. Ready for a race or big day(s).
    -10 < Form < +5 : Neutral Zone. Zone reached typically when athlete is in a rest or recovery week. After a race or hard training period.
    -30 < Form < -10 : Optimal Training Zone. Where athlete can build an effective fitness.
    Form < -30 : Over Load Zone. Athlete is on overload or over-training phase. He should take a rest!

    As runners we are generally in tune with how we feel, so all these numbers and equations are necessary, but I'm an engineer and I love numbers, graphs, and over analyzing. This Strava extension is a good check for how my training is going, and allows me to compare different training cycles.

    Another thing Elevate does is forecasts the numbers for a week, assuming no running in that time. This helps me know how much I should run before race to keep my form number in the "Freshness Zone".

    All these numbers and cool charts are great, but of course we, first and foremost, need to listen to our bodies no matter what the numbers say. If you feel like you need a rest, then rest, no matter what the Form number is.

    Here's some more info on this concept from Joel Friel:

    https://www.joefrielsblog.com/2015/12/managing-training-using-tsb.html

    In this case he uses CTL for Fitness, ATL for Fatigue, and TSB for Form

  • shanaber
    shanaber Posts: 6,423 Member
    edited December 2018
    @eleanorhawkins - I can totally relate to the depression and frustration from not running. I have not really run since the middle of October (although I kept trying here and there) and for me it hurt even more to walk. I find I get frustrated and upset by things, mostly minor, so easily now and unfortunately my DH usually gets the brunt of it. Going to the gym and cycling is the only thing that has saved me and probably saved my marriage too. It isn't running and I hate spending hours in the gym but it does help and I am hoping it is helping me maintain some semblance of my fitness level. I also gained a few pounds initially which scared the crap out of me. I do not want to go back to where I was before either. So I changed up my eating a little (more protein per the doctor for healing bones, more calcium, etc) and dropped my calories a bit below maintenance even though I am cycling and lifting still. ETA - I have since lost the few I gained so that made me feel better!
    I would rest your knees/legs over the holiday and then if still hurting get in to see an orthopedic doctor or a sports medicine doctor if you can(not sure how the system works there). Otherwise see your GP. Mostly just have your knees checked to find out what is wrong and how to get beyond it. I would make clear to them that your goal is to get back to running... a sports doctor or a doctor who is also a runner will understand, others not so much.

    @7lenny7 - I put an old watch on Hobbes the Vizsla for a while when we would run just to see how far he went - it was hilarious because he was all over the place and back and forth... I wish I had done it a time or two at the dog beach too just to see how fast he goes when he zooms along. Also I used the auto-pause feature so that might work for your hunting trips when he is in the truck with you.
  • _nikkiwolf_
    _nikkiwolf_ Posts: 1,380 Member
    edited December 2018
    eleanorhawkins wrote: »
    @_nikkiwolf_ thanks :) You know, I own a bicycle but Spanish drivers make me too scared to ride it on the roads, and there's nowhere offroad I can get to without putting the bike in a van for pushing it along pavements for over half an hour first, so it's rusting in the garage. I used to own a spinning bike, but we didn't use it so we sold it. I really really regret that now. I can't afford to buy another one, and have yet to find any second hand ones round here. I have toyed with the idea of selling the road bike to cover some of the cost of an indoor bike, but would probably regret that some time too. I need to look into those roller things to convert outdoor to indoor, but vaguely remember looking once and them being really expensive. There's a municipal indoor pool 5 minutes from me, I could try and pluck up the courage and fork out the bit of cash to go use that, but the times its open for non-lesson use are pretty dumb and I hate getting almost naked in public and it has a tonne of chlorine that really *kitten* up my psoriasis. I think the English phrase for this current situation is something like 'stuck between a wall and a hard place' **insert rolly eye smiley here**
    @eleanorhawkins I guess it depends on what you consider really expensive. The outdoor-to-indoor trainers start around 60 Euro (e.g. this one - which at least where I live is equivalent to 10x swimming pool entrance fee, not accounting for transportation cost to get to/from the pool). With that type you have to remove the wheel of your bike to install it, so it's a bit inconvenient if you swap between outdoor and indoor a lot, but it sounds like that won't be a problem for you.
    I have a different type, rollers (this model , they cost a little more). I can just put my bike on them and ride in place without modifying anything, which is more convenient for me since I also use my bike outside in winter sometimes, and I would be much too lazy to mess with the wheel all the time. But they really require concentration to ride on, so I only use them for short training - something like "an hour in front of the TV" doesn't work with that type, at least not for me.
    I think what gets really expensive are the "smart trainers", that you can connect e.g. to Zwift or Sufferfest to do rides in virtual landscapes, and they automatically change the resistance when it goes "uphill" or "downhill", and cool features like that.
  • shanaber
    shanaber Posts: 6,423 Member
    edited December 2018
    @7lenny7 - I use Elevate too but have not looked at it in a while. Certainly not since my injury, I am afraid of what I will see...

    ETA - I looked... not as bad as I imagined. Fitness 23.2 Form -2.2 My Fitness was at peak (46) in June/July right before my HM in SF in July. It was staying right in the low 40's until my injury when it dropped off then stabilized in the mid 20's. Guess I will keep up with that cycling as it seems to be helping some.
  • kgirlhart
    kgirlhart Posts: 5,185 Member
    Thanks @7lenny7. That is helpful.
  • AmyOutOfControl
    AmyOutOfControl Posts: 1,425 Member
    A chance to win a Garmin, Aftershokz Headphones and pair of Brooks running shoes!

    https://charitymiles.org/giveaway/12-clever/?ref_id=rA19512653&fbclid=IwAR0M2HGKjIsM9nrWWdjiixSPfZpmzKi9JQSEeSQgmvFnpiVSeumR8oFXX0U
  • Avidkeo
    Avidkeo Posts: 3,211 Member
    sarahthes wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    i've had a niggling pain on the inside bottom of my ankle bone. anyone else ever had it? tendonitis?

    Not a doctor, but that's where I had tendonitis. My GP diagnosed it and then sent me to a sports physiotherapist to get a more precise diagnosis and treatment. I had it in the tendon that connects the inner calf muscle to the bottom of the foot. It ached behind the ankle bone and into the arch.

    Yep. All the time when I'm wearing the wrong shoes. It's called posterior tibial ligament tendinitis.

    To ease the pain you can do cross fibre massage, it hurts for a minute then eases. There are a few stretches you can do as well.

    But the biggest thing is shoes! I have slightly flat feet and need to wear stability shoes, even when walking. I know my running shoes are getting to old when I start getting that pain.so try new, properly fitted shoes. And check your everyday shoes as well.
  • mbaker566
    mbaker566 Posts: 11,233 Member
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    sarahthes wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    i've had a niggling pain on the inside bottom of my ankle bone. anyone else ever had it? tendonitis?

    Not a doctor, but that's where I had tendonitis. My GP diagnosed it and then sent me to a sports physiotherapist to get a more precise diagnosis and treatment. I had it in the tendon that connects the inner calf muscle to the bottom of the foot. It ached behind the ankle bone and into the arch.

    Yep. All the time when I'm wearing the wrong shoes. It's called posterior tibial ligament tendinitis.

    To ease the pain you can do cross fibre massage, it hurts for a minute then eases. There are a few stretches you can do as well.

    But the biggest thing is shoes! I have slightly flat feet and need to wear stability shoes, even when walking. I know my running shoes are getting to old when I start getting that pain.so try new, properly fitted shoes. And check your everyday shoes as well.

    ugh, prone to tendonitis with my autoimmune. i just got over the peroneal on the other side.
    i have high arches. it's not bad. guess i'll stand in my fabrics a little more. grrrrr
    my shoes are all at 100ish miles so i'm not so worried about that. it's just right under the bone.
    could be a side effect of my flare.
    could be that my lower legs have been super tight.
    either way one more thing to focus on.


    thanks guys
  • 7lenny7
    7lenny7 Posts: 3,498 Member
    shanaber wrote: »
    @7lenny7 - I use Elevate too but have not looked at it in a while. Certainly not since my injury, I am afraid of what I will see...

    ETA - I looked... not as bad as I imagined. Fitness 23.2 Form -2.2 My Fitness was at peak (46) in June/July right before my HM in SF in July. It was staying right in the low 40's until my injury when it dropped off then stabilized in the mid 20's. Guess I will keep up with that cycling as it seems to be helping some.

    @shanaber, the app changed the way they calculated your scores some time ago. Under the settings, you can select the "Heart rate stress score calculation mode" as either HRSS (recommended) or TRIMP (old one, not recommended). Apparently TRIMP is less accurate. Also with the HRSS method, it can use past data to estimate your HR stress score for runs which don't include HR data (like when your battery dies), something you can't do with TRIMP. The HRSS score gives you lower numbers, but of course it's all relative. It takes time to get use to the lower numbers though.

    My overall high fitness with TRIMP is 81.3 last April, but with HRSS, my fitness number was 49 for that exact same day.
  • Purplebunnysarah
    Purplebunnysarah Posts: 3,252 Member
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    sarahthes wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    i've had a niggling pain on the inside bottom of my ankle bone. anyone else ever had it? tendonitis?

    Not a doctor, but that's where I had tendonitis. My GP diagnosed it and then sent me to a sports physiotherapist to get a more precise diagnosis and treatment. I had it in the tendon that connects the inner calf muscle to the bottom of the foot. It ached behind the ankle bone and into the arch.

    Yep. All the time when I'm wearing the wrong shoes. It's called posterior tibial ligament tendinitis.

    To ease the pain you can do cross fibre massage, it hurts for a minute then eases. There are a few stretches you can do as well.

    But the biggest thing is shoes! I have slightly flat feet and need to wear stability shoes, even when walking. I know my running shoes are getting to old when I start getting that pain.so try new, properly fitted shoes. And check your everyday shoes as well.

    I tape my with K-Tape as well. Physiotherapist also has me doing eccentric calf raises on stairs for the rest of my life.
    198xdf0u4wb2.jpg
  • Tramboman
    Tramboman Posts: 2,482 Member
    eleanorhawkins wrote: »
    ContraryMaryMary wrote: »

    I'm having the exact same pity party here. I'm paranoid about gaining weight while I'm not running and am trying to limit my calories to 1500 (I'm 171cm/5'7.5" and 61kg). This is virtually impossible even without Christmas throwing deliciously boozy and chocolate-covered treats my way. Walking burns no calories, takes up way too much time, and does nothing to alleviate the stress of life. Punching something is a really good idea but, having kick boxed for a while, it's so much easier and effective if done while bouncing around - something dodgy knees precludes. I've decided to take up swimming... I haven't actually made it to the pool yet...

    @ContraryMaryMary I was about to say nice to hear I'm not the only one but no, it isn't at all nice. However we can at least commiserate together. Or something. But I have nothing to fear, my husband got fed up with me being pathetic and solved all my calorie related problems by recommending I "do a couple of crunches". So that's ok then.
    @_nikkiwolf_ thanks for the links, yes something like the first would be awesome, however I need to try and find something local as the shipping costs are almost half the price of the thing itself.

    So Santa, if you're reading, I've been very good this year and I need: a lottery win, an exercise bike or roller-converter thingy, a private salt water swimming pool, a personal massagist/physiotherapist who runs, new knees, new shoes just in case and lots of race entries for when all of the above works their magic. Oh and a new husband or a gag wouldn't go amiss either O:-)

    Hang tough!!!!!!
    I don't want to go all Pollyanna on you, but we all have so much to be grateful for. Accept the negatives life throws, but don't let the negatives blur the focus on the positives. I know this is much easier said than done, but keep in mind we all have your back.
    Since you've been good, there's no telling what Santa is going to leave under the tree for you.
  • eleanorhawkins
    eleanorhawkins Posts: 1,659 Member
    @Tramboman awww how sweet :) Sadly I know exactly what he'll be leaving me under the tree and that's sweet FA but there you go, I'm used to it.
    I really appreciate all the support you guys and gals provide and the fact that you put up with my moaning :)
  • mbaker566
    mbaker566 Posts: 11,233 Member
    sarahthes wrote: »
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    sarahthes wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    i've had a niggling pain on the inside bottom of my ankle bone. anyone else ever had it? tendonitis?

    Not a doctor, but that's where I had tendonitis. My GP diagnosed it and then sent me to a sports physiotherapist to get a more precise diagnosis and treatment. I had it in the tendon that connects the inner calf muscle to the bottom of the foot. It ached behind the ankle bone and into the arch.

    Yep. All the time when I'm wearing the wrong shoes. It's called posterior tibial ligament tendinitis.

    To ease the pain you can do cross fibre massage, it hurts for a minute then eases. There are a few stretches you can do as well.

    But the biggest thing is shoes! I have slightly flat feet and need to wear stability shoes, even when walking. I know my running shoes are getting to old when I start getting that pain.so try new, properly fitted shoes. And check your everyday shoes as well.

    I tape my with K-Tape as well. Physiotherapist also has me doing eccentric calf raises on stairs for the rest of my life.
    198xdf0u4wb2.jpg

    the good news is i tape like that already and already do calf raises. :)
  • Avidkeo
    Avidkeo Posts: 3,211 Member
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    sarahthes wrote: »
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    sarahthes wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    i've had a niggling pain on the inside bottom of my ankle bone. anyone else ever had it? tendonitis?

    Not a doctor, but that's where I had tendonitis. My GP diagnosed it and then sent me to a sports physiotherapist to get a more precise diagnosis and treatment. I had it in the tendon that connects the inner calf muscle to the bottom of the foot. It ached behind the ankle bone and into the arch.

    Yep. All the time when I'm wearing the wrong shoes. It's called posterior tibial ligament tendinitis.

    To ease the pain you can do cross fibre massage, it hurts for a minute then eases. There are a few stretches you can do as well.

    But the biggest thing is shoes! I have slightly flat feet and need to wear stability shoes, even when walking. I know my running shoes are getting to old when I start getting that pain.so try new, properly fitted shoes. And check your everyday shoes as well.

    I tape my with K-Tape as well. Physiotherapist also has me doing eccentric calf raises on stairs for the rest of my life.
    198xdf0u4wb2.jpg

    the good news is i tape like that already and already do calf raises. :)

    There's a really good stretch to do, i do it after ally runs. You start off like a calf stretch, standing, one foot forward, one behind. Keep the behind leg straight and bend the front knee. Then bend the back knee and turn it in slightly. You will feel the stretch down the inside of your ankle into your foot.

    Reminder - stretches should never hurt, but you should be able to feel it.
  • shanaber
    shanaber Posts: 6,423 Member
    7lenny7 wrote: »
    shanaber wrote: »
    @7lenny7 - I use Elevate too but have not looked at it in a while. Certainly not since my injury, I am afraid of what I will see...

    ETA - I looked... not as bad as I imagined. Fitness 23.2 Form -2.2 My Fitness was at peak (46) in June/July right before my HM in SF in July. It was staying right in the low 40's until my injury when it dropped off then stabilized in the mid 20's. Guess I will keep up with that cycling as it seems to be helping some.

    @shanaber, the app changed the way they calculated your scores some time ago. Under the settings, you can select the "Heart rate stress score calculation mode" as either HRSS (recommended) or TRIMP (old one, not recommended). Apparently TRIMP is less accurate. Also with the HRSS method, it can use past data to estimate your HR stress score for runs which don't include HR data (like when your battery dies), something you can't do with TRIMP. The HRSS score gives you lower numbers, but of course it's all relative. It takes time to get use to the lower numbers though.

    My overall high fitness with TRIMP is 81.3 last April, but with HRSS, my fitness number was 49 for that exact same day.

    @7lenny7 - I started using it after the calculation change so while TRIMP was an option I never paid it much attention since it 'wasn't recommended'.

    Here's my graph:
    m2b6tnqikklx.png
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    12/1 - 7mph for 1 hour @ 4% grade
    12/2 - 7 miles
    12/3 - 7mph for 1 hour @ 4% grade
    12/4 - 0 KM
    12/5 - 12 miles
    12/6 - Cookies
    12/7 - 12 miles
    12/8 - Christmas Party
    12/9 - Game Night
    12/10 - 7 miles
    12/11 - 7 miles
    12/12 - Work Dinner
    12/13 - 12 miles
    12/14 - 12 miles
    12/15 - 0 KM
    12/16 - 10.5 miles
    12/17 - 13.1 miles
    12/18 - 0KM
    12/19 - 8 miles
    12/20 - 7.5 rainy miles.


    Upcoming Races
    Steel Challange 5k - May 2019
    Pittsburgh Marathon - May 2019
    Glacier Ridge 50k Trail Race - May 2019

    2021 - Disney World Dopey! (if can raise funds)

    2019 GOAL: Knock a full hour off my 50k time at Glacier Ridge.
  • Avidkeo
    Avidkeo Posts: 3,211 Member
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    So, I did not want to run. It was cold. It was raining. I was tired. It was a Thursday. I heard a rumor that the price of tea in China went up- BUT I WENT ANWAYS. Only had time for a short run (FOR ME). It was rough cause I was tired, it was uphill (both ways) and it was raining. And cold. and it got dark. And of course, I was worried about the price of tea in China.

    Anyways. On the way back I saw something moving in the dark (I stupidly left all lights at home and there are no street lights) that it took me a bit to figure out were deer.

    My dudes, I almost got runned over by deer. Do they not know I AM NOT A GRANDMA?!?!? Sheesh.

    I've just introduced my kids to that song bahaha
  • Avidkeo
    Avidkeo Posts: 3,211 Member
    Do you guys get snoopys Christmas in the states? It's a kiwi staple, doesn't feel like Christmas till its been played
  • Orphia
    Orphia Posts: 7,097 Member
    Running

    Dec 02 - 21.1 km Carman’s Women’s Half Marathon. 2:08:08.6
    -
    -
    Dec 04 – 07.0 km
    -
    Dec 06 – 10.0 km
    Dec 07 – 07.0 km
    -
    Dec 09 – 12.0 km
    -
    Dec 11 – 11.7 km
    Dec 12 – 10.0 km
    -
    -
    Dec 15 – 05.1 km 27:31 + 01.1 km warmup
    Dec 16 – 10.0 km
    -
    -
    -
    Dec 20 – 02.0 km


    I had to cut Sunday's run short at 10 km due to soreness in my ankle / either side of the heel and maybe the Achilles. I started feeling it again yesterday after about 1 km so finished at 2 km.
    @eleanorhawkins @ContraryMaryMary I'm with you. Feeling positive about swimming instead for a while.

    Swimming

    Dec 18 - 1000 metres
    Dec 19 - 1000 metres PB
    -
    Dec 21 - 1200 metres

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