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Calorie deniers
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learners0permit wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
How so? Lots of long term successful people here on MFP.
I’m more speaking of what research shows. I’m not sure the statistics of how many people keep off the weight for 5+ years just on this app.
Most of the veterans posting here have been maintaining several years, I'm not sure how many are over 5 yet.
I have a feeling that the successful maintainers stay around and the ones that can't maintain get bored and leave. I would love to what those number are.
It would be interesting. Could be that the educational aspects of calorie counting which persist long after the need to log has gone may equip people better for future long term maintenance but that's just a guess.
I don't know anyone in real life that is actively calorie counting but the majority of people I know are maintaining their weight (but obviously not all maintaining at a good weight!).
Christmas Eve will be my 6 year anniversary of maintaining, stopped food logging ages ago and only stay due to my interest in exercise/training/fitness. I can't be the only person that only needed (or wanted) to calorie count for weight loss but don't need that level of accuracy to maintain.
I'll be 6 years in spring. Well, more or less...I typically put on a good 5-10 Lbs over the winter and strip it off in the spring. I'm up 6 Lbs right now due in large part to a string of injuries and aggravations late summer through the end of October. I'm holding right now which is a positive sign given this is when I usually put on weight.3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But has anyone else seen these people on YouTube or articles on the web talking about how counting calories does not work. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation that try’s to really over complicate things for no reason, que fog horn sound. Is counting calories to harsh of a reality for most people to deal with. I’ve lost almost 100 pounds using a caloric deficit, And this stuff just makes me facepalm over and over again.
If you want to sell something and there is a cheaper alternative on the market then part of your marketing strategy will be to discredit the cheaper alternative. Nothing is cheaper than free and calorie counting is free....it just requires discipline.
First suspicion about someone producing videos online stating calorie counting doesn't work is that they are selling something.
I have heard pro keto doctors say "Calorie restriction does not work" however it was not related to marketing something other than maybe a book. The thought process is along the lines of as you restrict calories your metabolism slows to reduce your deficit. Than when the restriction stops you gain back all you lost.
So when I hear this I wonder what the actual numbers are. There are many on MFP that seem to maintain and others that complain their weight loss was temporary. It makes sense that if we go back to whatever eating pattern made us gain weight in the first place we will also gain again. It also makes sense that as people see a weight loss slow or stall they get discouraged and lose their will to remain in deficit. So when a doctor says that caloric reduction does not work is it just a generalization based on patient observation or has some study been done that shows dismal success rates? To me a broad statement like that deserves some scrutiny unless it can be backed up with something like a lopsided percentage from study results. Assuming such a study exists.3 -
I'm at 4.5 years since joining and 3.5 at maintenance. I log, but do so afterwards as I have developed habits along the way to ensure I don't eat at surplus over time.
I log primarily to ensure I get enough calories to fuel workouts and hit my protein and carb goals.1 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But has anyone else seen these people on YouTube or articles on the web talking about how counting calories does not work. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation that try’s to really over complicate things for no reason, que fog horn sound. Is counting calories to harsh of a reality for most people to deal with. I’ve lost almost 100 pounds using a caloric deficit, And this stuff just makes me facepalm over and over again.
If you want to sell something and there is a cheaper alternative on the market then part of your marketing strategy will be to discredit the cheaper alternative. Nothing is cheaper than free and calorie counting is free....it just requires discipline.
First suspicion about someone producing videos online stating calorie counting doesn't work is that they are selling something.
I have looked at some videos but haven't needed to pay for any although some authors do pan handle a bit for a donation. I wouldn't do any weight loss strategy that involves me paying someone for me to loss weight. Any WOE or calorie restriction is free. My father in law always said "you can get anything in this world for three payments of $29.95"1 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But has anyone else seen these people on YouTube or articles on the web talking about how counting calories does not work. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation that try’s to really over complicate things for no reason, que fog horn sound. Is counting calories to harsh of a reality for most people to deal with. I’ve lost almost 100 pounds using a caloric deficit, And this stuff just makes me facepalm over and over again.
If you want to sell something and there is a cheaper alternative on the market then part of your marketing strategy will be to discredit the cheaper alternative. Nothing is cheaper than free and calorie counting is free....it just requires discipline.
First suspicion about someone producing videos online stating calorie counting doesn't work is that they are selling something.
I have heard pro keto doctors say "Calorie restriction does not work" however it was not related to marketing something other than maybe a book. The thought process is along the lines of as you restrict calories your metabolism slows to reduce your deficit. Than when the restriction stops you gain back all you lost.
So when I hear this I wonder what the actual numbers are. There are many on MFP that seem to maintain and others that complain their weight loss was temporary. It makes sense that if we go back to whatever eating pattern made us gain weight in the first place we will also gain again. It also makes sense that as people see a weight loss slow or stall they get discouraged and lose their will to remain in deficit. So when a doctor says that caloric reduction does not work is it just a generalization based on patient observation or has some study been done that shows dismal success rates? To me a broad statement like that deserves some scrutiny unless it can be backed up with something like a lopsided percentage from study results. Assuming such a study exists.
I understand the issue at hand, but it's a small factor and does not "slow" metabolism over a significant period of time. Metabolism is nothing more than a series of biochemical reactions and the energy output adjusts based on use. If more food is present, activity increases slightly to handle the mass. If less food is present, activity decreases slightly to be more efficient. This occurs over 24-48 hours and the amount of change is less than the degree of instrumentation error, so really insignificant over time.
Also note this is masked under several other variables which are going to show up on a scale in short cycles such as sodium and water weight.
When any person of authority makes such a statement they are reinforcing a negative behavior based on confirmation bias. Caloric reduction is demonstrably the only way weight loss works.6 -
Regarding the bolded section....Aaron_K123 wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But has anyone else seen these people on YouTube or articles on the web talking about how counting calories does not work. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation that try’s to really over complicate things for no reason, que fog horn sound. Is counting calories to harsh of a reality for most people to deal with. I’ve lost almost 100 pounds using a caloric deficit, And this stuff just makes me facepalm over and over again.
If you want to sell something and there is a cheaper alternative on the market then part of your marketing strategy will be to discredit the cheaper alternative. Nothing is cheaper than free and calorie counting is free....it just requires discipline.
First suspicion about someone producing videos online stating calorie counting doesn't work is that they are selling something.
I have heard pro keto doctors say "Calorie restriction does not work" however it was not related to marketing something other than maybe a book. The thought process is along the lines of as you restrict calories your metabolism slows to reduce your deficit. Than when the restriction stops you gain back all you lost.
So when I hear this I wonder what the actual numbers are. There are many on MFP that seem to maintain and others that complain their weight loss was temporary. It makes sense that if we go back to whatever eating pattern made us gain weight in the first place we will also gain again. It also makes sense that as people see a weight loss slow or stall they get discouraged and lose their will to remain in deficit. So when a doctor says that caloric reduction does not work is it just a generalization based on patient observation or has some study been done that shows dismal success rates? To me a broad statement like that deserves some scrutiny unless it can be backed up with something like a lopsided percentage from study results. Assuming such a study exists.
I had some adaptive thermogenesis (if that's what you mean by"metabolism slows") during my weight loss, but within a couple of months at maintenance it reversed itself completely without any deliberate intervention - I started losing weight at what was my initial maintenance calorie allowance.
My restriction stopped, I returned to eating the way I ate before my weight loss and I remained in my maintenance range. These days I'm eating more than ever (about 3,300 today) due to increased exercise and activity.
The future doesn't have be as bleak as people seem to think.
Unlike many though I was maintaining before I lost weight, just maintaining 30lbs too fat. It's a bit different if people were having a prolonged upwards weight trend. I didn't need a lifestyle change (horribly overused phrase!) - some people clearly do though or weight loss will unfortunately be temporary.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But has anyone else seen these people on YouTube or articles on the web talking about how counting calories does not work. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation that try’s to really over complicate things for no reason, que fog horn sound. Is counting calories to harsh of a reality for most people to deal with. I’ve lost almost 100 pounds using a caloric deficit, And this stuff just makes me facepalm over and over again.
If you want to sell something and there is a cheaper alternative on the market then part of your marketing strategy will be to discredit the cheaper alternative. Nothing is cheaper than free and calorie counting is free....it just requires discipline.
First suspicion about someone producing videos online stating calorie counting doesn't work is that they are selling something.
I have heard pro keto doctors say "Calorie restriction does not work" however it was not related to marketing something other than maybe a book. The thought process is along the lines of as you restrict calories your metabolism slows to reduce your deficit. Than when the restriction stops you gain back all you lost.
So when I hear this I wonder what the actual numbers are. There are many on MFP that seem to maintain and others that complain their weight loss was temporary. It makes sense that if we go back to whatever eating pattern made us gain weight in the first place we will also gain again. It also makes sense that as people see a weight loss slow or stall they get discouraged and lose their will to remain in deficit. So when a doctor says that caloric reduction does not work is it just a generalization based on patient observation or has some study been done that shows dismal success rates? To me a broad statement like that deserves some scrutiny unless it can be backed up with something like a lopsided percentage from study results. Assuming such a study exists.
Any diet or method that results in losing weight is a calorie restriction...so the statement makes zero sense. The statistics for maintaining weight long term are dismal regardless of the diet or method used to lose weight.
My wife and I are the only people we know who've dieted and lost weight and kept it off long term...we maintain a schedule of regular exercise and eat healthfully most of the time, don't eat out all that often and cook at home. Everyone we've ever known to lose weight has not maintained it because they pretty much immediately go back to old eating habits and ditch the regular exercise.
We are fortunate in that over the years our circle of fitness oriented friends have grown and surpassed the number of non fitness oriented friends...it is very helpful to be around people with similar goals and interests. Many of our social gatherings revolve around some kind of activity like hiking or swimming or biking...and then we enjoy a good, freshly prepared meal together and drink some tequila and beer and play raunchy adult card games.8 -
I have heard pro keto doctors say "Calorie restriction does not work" however it was not related to marketing something other than maybe a book. The thought process is along the lines of as you restrict calories your metabolism slows to reduce your deficit. Than when the restriction stops you gain back all you lost.
If that was true then nobody would ever maintain weight loss, which many people do. Generally when people go off a diet and gain the weight back, it's not because of a slowed metabolism, it's because they went back to the bad eating habits that made them gain the weight in the first place. I gained back most of the 10 lbs I lost in 2014 but I know exactly why it happened. It was because I stopped tracking calories which makes it easy to go over by accident, and also there was a period of time when I was stress eating entire bars of chocolate and things like that due to work stress. Nothing to do with metabolism.6
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