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Calorie deniers
Replies
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learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
"Seemingly" is a pretty important word in there.
Who says calorie counters deny themselves food when they're hungry? And in what way are "healthy foods" not "more tempting"? And if healthy/tempting are opposites, why would someone practicing "intuitive eating" choose healthy foods over tempting ones: Pursuing pleasure is pretty intuitive for me, though maybe I'm just extra weak.
The last time someone argued with me speaking against calorie counting because of what was in "plenty of books"** she was still fat, and I was already thin, after decades of obesity. It's been a couple of years since that conversation. AFAIK, she's still fat, and I'm still at a healthy weight 3 years after losing weight, and still counting calories. (** She said she'd read "all" of the books all Winter, and they all said we have to cut carbs in order to lose weight).
If I'm extra hungry, I eat, even if I've "run out of calories for the day". Same if I'm low on some nutrients I figure are important. The books have to balance, broadly, over a period of time. I think you're visualizing us a bunch of calorie misers in a garret, hoarding our little carefully-counted calories, when it's really more like working in a common-sense way within a known budget, instead of blowing your whole paycheck on Louis Vuitton or something.
Keep in mind that "diet" has at least two meanings in English. One is "the kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats" (credit: Oxford Dictionaries).
And I'm pretty happy with my body, and honoring myself is no problem (both of which were already true when I was obese, BTW).
edited: missing word, typo9 -
learners0permit wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
That sounds a heck of a lot like how I got 20 lbs overweight in the first place
I didn't have an unhealthy relationship with food. I just ate a little bit too much, every day, over 10 years or so. Calorie counting helped me stop eating that little bit extra. It helped me see where I was wasting calories. It helped me see I was accidentally eating pretty low protein, and sometimes low fiber. It made it easier to correct that.
I was hardly ever hungry while I was losing weight here. And I eat much "healthier" now that I can see everything in black & white.
I don't have an intuitive relationship with my bank account either. I have to keep track of that stuff or drift off course.
I think we may be losing sight of what intuitive eating is. Look at children, if you give them options to healthy foods and unhealthy foods throughout their childhood they will chose what they need to grow. They will also eat as much as they are hungry for and not much more. This is the basis of intuitive eating. While intuitive eating sounds like an easy concept to grasp, it’s not when you’ve disabled yourself from listening to your body.
Nope. They'll trade their healthy muffins and lean protein sandwiches for cupcakes and fluffernutter. They'll blow their allowance on Twinkies in vending machines. They go for what tastes good. Mom rarely gave me a snack in my lunch that wasn't fruit. So, I'd mooch; I'd spend my allowance; I'd go overboard at birthday parties. Because I wanted what the other kids were having. I wanted to fit in. And I'm sorry, but a Mars Bar tastes a lot better than an apple.13 -
learners0permit wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
That sounds a heck of a lot like how I got 20 lbs overweight in the first place
I didn't have an unhealthy relationship with food. I just ate a little bit too much, every day, over 10 years or so. Calorie counting helped me stop eating that little bit extra. It helped me see where I was wasting calories. It helped me see I was accidentally eating pretty low protein, and sometimes low fiber. It made it easier to correct that.
I was hardly ever hungry while I was losing weight here. And I eat much "healthier" now that I can see everything in black & white.
I don't have an intuitive relationship with my bank account either. I have to keep track of that stuff or drift off course.
I think we may be losing sight of what intuitive eating is. Look at children, if you give them options to healthy foods and unhealthy foods throughout their childhood they will chose what they need to grow. They will also eat as much as they are hungry for and not much more. This is the basis of intuitive eating. While intuitive eating sounds like an easy concept to grasp, it’s not when you’ve disabled yourself from listening to your body.
Hunger cues do work with children if you don't keep them to set meal times. I raised my own children that way. That takes care of how much they intuitively eat. As far as *what* they intuitively eat? Kids need a bit of gentle guidance in that area. My kids have been known to turn down cookies and stop at half a cookie if they weren't hungry because we didn't restrict them, but getting them to eat veggies was a struggle. They didn't intuitively eat them.
However, back to hunger signals... they can be irreparably broken. The idea that your body has some intelligence of its own and that you are getting in the way of its greater wisdom is the highest form of denial of your own intelligence. I have a brain and can apply it to dealing with the matter of my broken hunger cues, my emotional issues with food, and learning how to have better habits with food. I do this using knowledge. I don't give my body mastery over me, I take mastery over my body.
(edited to clarify some things about kids)8 -
learners0permit wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
That sounds a heck of a lot like how I got 20 lbs overweight in the first place
I didn't have an unhealthy relationship with food. I just ate a little bit too much, every day, over 10 years or so. Calorie counting helped me stop eating that little bit extra. It helped me see where I was wasting calories. It helped me see I was accidentally eating pretty low protein, and sometimes low fiber. It made it easier to correct that.
I was hardly ever hungry while I was losing weight here. And I eat much "healthier" now that I can see everything in black & white.
I don't have an intuitive relationship with my bank account either. I have to keep track of that stuff or drift off course.
I think we may be losing sight of what intuitive eating is. Look at children, if you give them options to healthy foods and unhealthy foods throughout their childhood they will chose what they need to grow. They will also eat as much as they are hungry for and not much more. This is the basis of intuitive eating. While intuitive eating sounds like an easy concept to grasp, it’s not when you’ve disabled yourself from listening to your body.
You and I clearly know different children.
Just my own personal, non-professional opinion is that our brains are still programmed for the world of many years ago, where we had to fluff up on food when it was available so we wouldn't starve when it wasn't. Except now it's always available, in abundance. So our radar is off. I refuse to be made to feel like I'm in the slow class because I haven't managed to undo centuries of evolution in my first 45 years.
I know lots of people who are trying to "eat healthier" and are struggling with their weight, and I have to deal with them being condescending about how I eat whilst complaining how "unfair" it is that I'm skinny. Tracking my food literally changed my life. It has been successful for me for over 3 years, and I'm riding this train until if or when it rolls to a stop :drinker:12 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
That sounds a heck of a lot like how I got 20 lbs overweight in the first place
I didn't have an unhealthy relationship with food. I just ate a little bit too much, every day, over 10 years or so. Calorie counting helped me stop eating that little bit extra. It helped me see where I was wasting calories. It helped me see I was accidentally eating pretty low protein, and sometimes low fiber. It made it easier to correct that.
I was hardly ever hungry while I was losing weight here. And I eat much "healthier" now that I can see everything in black & white.
I don't have an intuitive relationship with my bank account either. I have to keep track of that stuff or drift off course.
I think we may be losing sight of what intuitive eating is. Look at children, if you give them options to healthy foods and unhealthy foods throughout their childhood they will chose what they need to grow. They will also eat as much as they are hungry for and not much more. This is the basis of intuitive eating. While intuitive eating sounds like an easy concept to grasp, it’s not when you’ve disabled yourself from listening to your body.
Nope. They'll trade their healthy muffins and lean protein sandwiches for cupcakes and fluffernutter. They'll blow their allowance on Twinkies in vending machines. They go for what tastes good. Mom rarely gave me a snack in my lunch that wasn't fruit. So, I'd mooch; I'd spend my allowance; I'd go overboard at birthday parties. Because I wanted what the other kids were having. I wanted to fit in. And I'm sorry, but a Mars Bar tastes a lot better than an apple.
This is my experience as well. I have raised 4 children into adults and not a single one of them would choose veggies/fruit over a sugary snack 99 times out of a 100. They would only choose the 'healthy' snack if one of the adults was around.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
I will need to get back to you in about a decade or so to give you my answer on this.4 -
learners0permit wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
It stops working if you stop doing it (aka why I gained back the 10 lbs I lost four years ago). If you do it every day it works. But the good news is that unlike many other diets, it doesn't require giving up entire food groups for the rest of your life, or anything extreme like that. It just requires measuring, and spending five minutes a day tracking or meal planning, to make sure you don't accidentally eat more than you intended to (which is very easy to do).5 -
learners0permit wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
How so? Lots of long term successful people here on MFP.
I’m more speaking of what research shows. I’m not sure the statistics of how many people keep off the weight for 5+ years just on this app.
Most of the veterans posting here have been maintaining several years, I'm not sure how many are over 5 yet.
I have a feeling that the successful maintainers stay around and the ones that can't maintain get bored and leave. I would love to what those number are.2 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
That sounds a heck of a lot like how I got 20 lbs overweight in the first place
I didn't have an unhealthy relationship with food. I just ate a little bit too much, every day, over 10 years or so. Calorie counting helped me stop eating that little bit extra. It helped me see where I was wasting calories. It helped me see I was accidentally eating pretty low protein, and sometimes low fiber. It made it easier to correct that.
I was hardly ever hungry while I was losing weight here. And I eat much "healthier" now that I can see everything in black & white.
I don't have an intuitive relationship with my bank account either. I have to keep track of that stuff or drift off course.
I think we may be losing sight of what intuitive eating is. Look at children, if you give them options to healthy foods and unhealthy foods throughout their childhood they will chose what they need to grow. They will also eat as much as they are hungry for and not much more. This is the basis of intuitive eating. While intuitive eating sounds like an easy concept to grasp, it’s not when you’ve disabled yourself from listening to your body.
Nope. They'll trade their healthy muffins and lean protein sandwiches for cupcakes and fluffernutter. They'll blow their allowance on Twinkies in vending machines. They go for what tastes good. Mom rarely gave me a snack in my lunch that wasn't fruit. So, I'd mooch; I'd spend my allowance; I'd go overboard at birthday parties. Because I wanted what the other kids were having. I wanted to fit in. And I'm sorry, but a Mars Bar tastes a lot better than an apple.
I have heard the trash can in the school lunchroom can tell quite a story at the end of lunch when schools switch to a healthy diet.4 -
Just my own personal, non-professional opinion is that our brains are still programmed for the world of many years ago, where we had to fluff up on food when it was available so we wouldn't starve when it wasn't. Except now it's always available, in abundance. So our radar is off. I refuse to be made to feel like I'm in the slow class because I haven't managed to undo centuries of evolution in my first 45 years.
That's exactly what I believe too. There has only been a tiny part of human history in only some parts of the world where food was cheap and abundant and famine eliminated. Of course our bodies are still giving the signal of "time to stock up for the hard times ahead." Couple that with a highly sedentary, car-centric, and convenience-based lifestyle and is it any surprise so many people are obese?
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learners0permit wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Research shows that not much of anything is sustainable for long term weight loss. The vast majority of people who lose weight regain it.
"Intuitive eating" is largely new-age psychobabble. Humans (like most animals) didn't evolve to lose weight, we evolved to be efficient fat storing machines for survival in periods of famine. The biggest difference between us and other animals, and the reason you don't see rampant obesity in them as in humans, is that they don't have an overabundance of readily available food and sedentary/obesogenic environments.
If you compare the obesity rates between developed countries and third-world countries where food scarcity is a thing (along with a lack of automation and the attendant luxuries of a developed lifestyle), the difference is obvious. It's not that the people in those third-world countries are "eating intuitively" - it's that they don't have much food available to them. And that they don't drive cars everywhere they go, sit in office cubicles all day, and watch their 80" televisions with 500 channels all night while they snack on all the foods in their pantries and refrigerators. Because they don't have any of those things.19 -
learners0permit wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
How so? Lots of long term successful people here on MFP.
I’m more speaking of what research shows. I’m not sure the statistics of how many people keep off the weight for 5+ years just on this app.
What research shows that intuitive eating has better stats?9 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Sorry, but intuitive eating took me to obesity-level III. Calorie counting has taken off 107lbs. And along the way, I've learned the foods that keep me satiated, and pace myself so I don't run out of calories. I'm not sure where you get the idea that those of us who count calories don't want to eat healthy or want to cut out "more tempting foods". I can only speak for myself, but I find ways to eat both, all keeping to a calorie deficit. So far, so good.
This.5 -
learners0permit wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Research shows that not much of anything is sustainable for long term weight loss. The vast majority of people who lose weight regain it.
"Intuitive eating" is largely new-age psychobabble. Humans (like most animals) didn't evolve to lose weight, we evolved to be efficient fat storing machines for survival in periods of famine. The biggest difference between us and other animals, and the reason you don't see rampant obesity in them as in humans, is that they don't have an overabundance of readily available food and sedentary/obesogenic environments.
And those that do, pets with irresponsible owners, trash panda's and the like, get obese.5 -
laurenq1991 wrote: »Just my own personal, non-professional opinion is that our brains are still programmed for the world of many years ago, where we had to fluff up on food when it was available so we wouldn't starve when it wasn't. Except now it's always available, in abundance. So our radar is off. I refuse to be made to feel like I'm in the slow class because I haven't managed to undo centuries of evolution in my first 45 years.
That's exactly what I believe too. There has only been a tiny part of human history in only some parts of the world where food was cheap and abundant and famine eliminated. Of course our bodies are still giving the signal of "time to stock up for the hard times ahead." Couple that with a highly sedentary, car-centric, and convenience-based lifestyle and is it any surprise so many people are obese?
This and short intervals between meals. Some people have gone from three meals a day, the way it was when I was a kid, to five or more a day. That's a huge change in how we eat over a short amount of time.6 -
learners0permit wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
That sounds a heck of a lot like how I got 20 lbs overweight in the first place
I didn't have an unhealthy relationship with food. I just ate a little bit too much, every day, over 10 years or so. Calorie counting helped me stop eating that little bit extra. It helped me see where I was wasting calories. It helped me see I was accidentally eating pretty low protein, and sometimes low fiber. It made it easier to correct that.
I was hardly ever hungry while I was losing weight here. And I eat much "healthier" now that I can see everything in black & white.
I don't have an intuitive relationship with my bank account either. I have to keep track of that stuff or drift off course.
I think we may be losing sight of what intuitive eating is. Look at children, if you give them options to healthy foods and unhealthy foods throughout their childhood they will chose what they need to grow. They will also eat as much as they are hungry for and not much more. This is the basis of intuitive eating. While intuitive eating sounds like an easy concept to grasp, it’s not when you’ve disabled yourself from listening to your body.
There is no reason to think that humans, in general, will be able to "intuitively eat" and maintain weight in the type of environment most of us live in. I know I can lose weight and maintain weight without calorie counting (although I often calorie count because it is more efficient and I enjoy it and find it a helpful way to stay motivated). What I cannot do is "intuitively eat." I must eat mindfully and have a schedule.
Contrary to the idea that this is unnatural, I think it is more consistent with human history.
During most of our history food was scarce and it was evolutionarily beneficial to be able to eat when food was available and not eat when it was not. Putting on weight during more plentiful times was likely common. Strict focus on hunger signals attuned to maintaining weight, vs. those attuned to the availability of food, especially higher cal (high in sugar and fat) foods, would not have been as advantageous and could have been a detriment. So that a majority of the population seems to be easily able to want to eat enough to gain when food is available is not surprising, nor that this manifests often as hunger, and that we often tend to prefer foods that are higher cal.
Throughout most later history (overlapping with the period when food remained relatively scarce for most, which was the case until quite recently), humans also regulated eating in lots of ways, differing by cultures, but there aren't really any cultures where people just ate on demand whenever, based on perceived hunger. Commonly eating is a social thing, food requires preparation and time, and there are schedules to eating. Many cultures often have periods of food restriction (i.e., in the Middle Ages there were many, many fast days and seasons on which food choice was limited, although again this would be variable from culture to culture).
It's only in the contemporary world where people assume we should be able to just eat whenever we feel hungry and if that results in weight gain that means we have a mental health issue (i.e., must fix our relationships with food).7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I honestly wish some people on here had seen the "welcome" Fung got when he tried to crash the ISSN "party" over on Facebook.
And not for mean-spirited reasons. But to see honest opinions of Fung from evidence based researchers.
For all the people on here who think we lay people have a bias against Fung, you ain't seen nothing! He was toasted by people who actually do know what they're talking about.
I'm saying all this to say that it's not "bias" against anything but disinformation. Lyle McDonald is well respected by most of us evidence-based posters, and he wrote a book about keto with sound information in it that I'd doubt anyone would get any pushback for quoting.
I think Lyle's The Ketogenic Diet book doesn't get the love because he wrote it from a factual, evidence-based point of view and didn't include enough magical, miraculous promises. Too bad, because it's probably the best, most objective reference on ketogenic dieting in existence. He's also authored four other books which all include some kind of CKD/TKD aspect in their methodology.
People don't want factual, evidence-based. They want Dr. Punchbowl's tweets that it cures cancer, enables you to live to 120 y/o, cures your arthritis, bursitis, aches, pains, and allergies, helps you find your lost shotgun, gets your mom released from prison, and causes your wife to leave that doctor she ran off with and return to you.
If Dr. Punchbowl's woo was true, then all vegetarians/vegans (the vast majority of who eat diets high in carbohydrates) would be morbidly obese and gaining weight/fat continuously and uncontrollably. Because teh insulinz.
Since the above is demonstrably false, so is his theory.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
This reads like your opinion. Given that you say the research doesn't show calorie counting to be sustainable, what research shows that intuitive eating is more successful for long term weight loss?
I think to learn better intuitive eating habits can come more easily from someone who is comfortable with counting their calories. I mean I know for me I can look at the quantity and type of food it is and just from counting the calories of that item before I can be pretty close to knowing how much I’m actually about to eat.
If someone hasn’t ever counted calories and you give them 2 cups of cooked brown rice on their plate, they’re probably going to be more off on how much they’re eating vs someone who has counted in the past and has built that foundation. Intuitive eating is going to be much easier for them imo
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learners0permit wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
How so? Lots of long term successful people here on MFP.
I’m more speaking of what research shows. I’m not sure the statistics of how many people keep off the weight for 5+ years just on this app.
Most of the veterans posting here have been maintaining several years, I'm not sure how many are over 5 yet.
I don't calorie count, but I wouldn't call my eating intuitive. I eat in the more traditional manner of 3 squares per day and usually an afternoon/early evening snack (because I eat dinner late). My food is portioned out to what I'm allowing myself to eat for that particular meal and rarely if ever do I go for 2nds. I also cook probably 90% of what I eat from scratch and for the most part eat a very nutritious, heavily plant based diet.
My exceptions are typically eating out and pizza night. When we have pizza night I intuitively eat at least half the pie. When I'm dining out I intuitively eat whatever is on the plate which is way more than a serving I would have at home and usually have an appetizer and share a desert as well. But I don't do those things all that often, so it all works out.
The reason most people fail long term in maintenance has nothing to do with "intuition"...people diet and then they go back to old eating habits, stop exercising regularly, etc...because they are "done." I figured out a long time ago that if I wanted to maintain my health and my weight that I was going to have to maintain healthy habits.15 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
That sounds a heck of a lot like how I got 20 lbs overweight in the first place
I didn't have an unhealthy relationship with food. I just ate a little bit too much, every day, over 10 years or so. Calorie counting helped me stop eating that little bit extra. It helped me see where I was wasting calories. It helped me see I was accidentally eating pretty low protein, and sometimes low fiber. It made it easier to correct that.
I was hardly ever hungry while I was losing weight here. And I eat much "healthier" now that I can see everything in black & white.
I don't have an intuitive relationship with my bank account either. I have to keep track of that stuff or drift off course.
I think we may be losing sight of what intuitive eating is. Look at children, if you give them options to healthy foods and unhealthy foods throughout their childhood they will chose what they need to grow. They will also eat as much as they are hungry for and not much more. This is the basis of intuitive eating. While intuitive eating sounds like an easy concept to grasp, it’s not when you’ve disabled yourself from listening to your body.
Nope. They'll trade their healthy muffins and lean protein sandwiches for cupcakes and fluffernutter. They'll blow their allowance on Twinkies in vending machines. They go for what tastes good. Mom rarely gave me a snack in my lunch that wasn't fruit. So, I'd mooch; I'd spend my allowance; I'd go overboard at birthday parties. Because I wanted what the other kids were having. I wanted to fit in. And I'm sorry, but a Mars Bar tastes a lot better than an apple.
This is my experience as well. I have raised 4 children into adults and not a single one of them would choose veggies/fruit over a sugary snack 99 times out of a 100. They would only choose the 'healthy' snack if one of the adults was around.
Yup! Or if given no other option.3 -
learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
I 'love and honor my body' every day by neither under-fueling nor over-fueling it for the tasks I ask of it.
Intuitive eating paved my way straight into obesity. I - intuitively or otherwise - wanted to eat all the things all the time and - for me - actually supported an unhealthy relationship with food.
Portion control via calorie counting has not only completed reversed that (lost 75 lbs) but continues to be my friend well into my lengthy maintenance.
6 -
My 'intuition' tells me to find the nearest all-you-can-eat sushi bar and make them regret their marketing model.snickerscharlie wrote: »Intuitive eating paved my way straight into obesity. I - intuitively or otherwise - wanted to eat all the things all the time and - for me - actually supported an unhealthy relationship with food.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
I 'love and honor my body' every day by neither under-fueling nor over-fueling it for the tasks I ask of it.
Intuitive eating paved my way straight into obesity. I - intuitively or otherwise - wanted to eat all the things all the time and - for me - actually supported an unhealthy relationship with food.
Portion control via calorie counting has not only completed reversed that (lost 75 lbs) but continues to be my friend well into my lengthy maintenance.
I have the same experience. I intuitively want to eat everything. Got to be morbidly obese that way.
My husband on the other hand, loses weight if he eats intuitively. And he is underweight to begin with.
I have lost more than 125 pounds and maintained that for several years except for the 20 pounds I put on over the course of a couple of years of medical issues when I wasn't paying attention to portions or calories (ok, I threw myself a pity party!). Those 20 are almost gone now.5 -
My 'intuition' tells me to find the nearest all-you-can-eat sushi bar and make them regret their marketing model.snickerscharlie wrote: »Intuitive eating paved my way straight into obesity. I - intuitively or otherwise - wanted to eat all the things all the time and - for me - actually supported an unhealthy relationship with food.
We don't have one of those where I live. Probably a good thing too as I can kill a lot of sushi.2 -
modusoperandi1412 wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
That sounds a heck of a lot like how I got 20 lbs overweight in the first place
I didn't have an unhealthy relationship with food. I just ate a little bit too much, every day, over 10 years or so. Calorie counting helped me stop eating that little bit extra. It helped me see where I was wasting calories. It helped me see I was accidentally eating pretty low protein, and sometimes low fiber. It made it easier to correct that.
I was hardly ever hungry while I was losing weight here. And I eat much "healthier" now that I can see everything in black & white.
I don't have an intuitive relationship with my bank account either. I have to keep track of that stuff or drift off course.
I think we may be losing sight of what intuitive eating is. Look at children, if you give them options to healthy foods and unhealthy foods throughout their childhood they will chose what they need to grow. They will also eat as much as they are hungry for and not much more. This is the basis of intuitive eating. While intuitive eating sounds like an easy concept to grasp, it’s not when you’ve disabled yourself from listening to your body.
What kind of children have you been around? If given the option between vegetables and candy, 10/10 times I would've taken the candy.
Yup!
When my daughter was still young enough to sit in the grocery cart seat while I shopped, I would always hit the fresh veggie aisle first and score her a mushroom or a green bean or a brussel sprout. She loved it!
I have absolutely no doubt, however, that if I had a cookie in one hand and a mini carrot in the other she would've chosen the cookie. Every. Single. Time.
Kids aren't stupid. 5 -
Another putting her hand up to maintaining for over 5 years; coming up on 18(?) years now? I lost weight at first by WW online, then tried to switch to "intuitive" eating, which had me put 5 pounds on (10% of the 50 I had lost). Switched to calorie counting to take the 5 off and never looked back. Now I definitely do not "stop when out of calories" if hungry; in fact tonight I will be over by about 100 - but that's really within the blip range of going over calories.9
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Oh, I know a long term maintainer! My dental hygienist has maintained a 75 pound weight loss for 30 years.
She does it by restricting certain foods, watching portions, regular consistent exercise, and constant weight monitoring. If she starts to notice scale creep, she cuts out snacking for a little bit until her weight is back where she wants it.8 -
@learners0permit
Lemur, GottaBurn, Anvil, Tackle, Snicker are some of my favorite posters hands down (I'm sure I left off a few so apologies) so I usually always agree or take their posts as a stepping off platform to learn.
I did go to intuitiveeating.org to see what the difference between intuitive and mindful eating and how they are defined other than just knowing the word differences. In particular I looked at the 10 principles of intuitive eating.
I don't disagree with most of the principles of intuitive eating (IF this is what you are talking about) except I have a big problem with #5. Most don't understand eating until full or eating only when hungry. I think that's the part that these wise posters are trying to point out is the flaw with "intuitive" eating if I may speak for them.
Speaking strictly for myself I don't know intuitivly (defined as without conscious reasoning; instinctively) know when I'm full or hungry. I only know this by being more mindful of what I eat and how much of it I eat and to a lesser degree what I eat.
https://www.intuitiveeating.org/10-principles-of-intuitive-eating/7 -
learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
Speaking of loving and honoring your body, do you exercise?5
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