Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Calorie deniers
Replies
-
Well for some, I guess simply cutting sugar beverages out, they could lose. Especially if a person drinks a 2 ltr a day (no not me) but I’ve seen it.3
-
Considering that a 2 liter bottle of Coke is about 800 calories, yes, that would make a significant difference in one's calorie intake. So whether they're counting calories or not, they just reduced their calorie intake by nearly 800 calories per day. That would definitely have an effect upon their energy balance.Well for some, I guess simply cutting sugar beverages out, they could lose. Especially if a person drinks a 2 ltr a day (no not me) but I’ve seen it.
I don't think anybody is arguing that you have to count calories to lose weight. But you do have to be in a sustained and consistent caloric deficit - by whatever means one chooses to achieve that.
I view counting calories as being like using a roadmap (or navigational device of your choice) when taking a road trip. Sure, I can take off for home with the plan to visit Osnabrock, North Dakota without ever having been there and no directions or navigational aids. I imagine I'll maybe eventually get there, but I'll probably make some wrong turns, get lost along the way and not travel the fastest/most efficient route. It would certainly be a shorter, easier trip if I used a map or some navigational aid to help me along the way. Weight loss and counting calories is kinda like that too.10 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »@learners0permit
Lemur, GottaBurn, Anvil, Tackle, Snicker are some of my favorite posters hands down (I'm sure I left off a few so apologies) so I usually always agree or take their posts as a stepping off platform to learn.
I did go to intuitiveeating.org to see what the difference between intuitive and mindful eating and how they are defined other than just knowing the word differences. In particular I looked at the 10 principles of intuitive eating.
I don't disagree with most of the principles of intuitive eating (IF this is what you are talking about) except I have a big problem with #5. Most don't understand eating until full or eating only when hungry. I think that's the part that these wise posters are trying to point out is the flaw with "intuitive" eating if I may speak for them.
Speaking strictly for myself I don't know intuitivly (defined as without conscious reasoning; instinctively) know when I'm full or hungry. I only know this by being more mindful of what I eat and how much of it I eat and to a lesser degree what I eat.
https://www.intuitiveeating.org/10-principles-of-intuitive-eating/
That's a "Bingo!" from me!
6 -
Considering that a 2 liter bottle of Coke is about 800 calories, yes, that would make a significant difference in one's calorie intake. So whether they're counting calories or not, they just reduced their calorie intake by nearly 800 calories per day. That would definitely have an effect upon their energy balance.Well for some, I guess simply cutting sugar beverages out, they could lose. Especially if a person drinks a 2 ltr a day (no not me) but I’ve seen it.
I don't think anybody is arguing that you have to count calories to lose weight. But you do have to be in a sustained and consistent caloric deficit - by whatever means one chooses to achieve that.
I view counting calories as being like using a roadmap (or navigational device of your choice) when taking a road trip. Sure, I can take off for home with the plan to visit Osnabrock, North Dakota without ever having been there and no directions or navigational aids. I imagine I'll maybe eventually get there, but I'll probably make some wrong turns, get lost along the way and not travel the fastest/most efficient route. It would certainly be a shorter, easier trip if I used a map or some navigational aid to help me along the way. Weight loss and counting calories is kinda like that too.
Wonderful analogy @AnvilHead!
Now that I've been in maintenance for a few years, I don't regularly count calories on the daily anymore.
Easily 99% of the stuff I eat and drink I've consumed many times before, anyway. I have a good handle on what an appropriate portion size looks like. I know the calories in my morning cuppa, I know what two eggs 'cost', etc. My recipes and all the things I usually eat or drink are entered in my database. That's my "Food Repertoire," if you will. On the odd occasion something different comes along - either a new product at the store, a recipe I want to try, or a restaurant meal I haven't had before - I'll take the time to figure out how calorically 'spendy' it is and add it in.
I've given myself a maintenance weight range. I step on the scale 2 or 3 times a week. If I see my weight consistently trending upwards and threatening to approach the upper limit, I know it's time to be more diligent. So I'll go back to weighing and logging until it's down where I want it to be. Doing that is also a good refresher course for me on what a portion size really is. It's easy for that to get a wee bit bigger over the course of time.
The other thing I do is I will occasionally and randomly test myself. Let's say I make meatloaf for dinner. I give myself what I think is the right portion size and then I'll weigh it to make sure. Or I grab a handful of grapes for a snack. I'll guess how much they weigh and then pop them on the scale to see how close I am. I actually find that fun!
But I could just be weird...
6 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Wonderful analogy @AnvilHead!
Now that I've been in maintenance for a few years, I don't regularly count calories on the daily anymore.
Easily 99% of the stuff I eat and drink I've consumed many times before, anyway. I have a good handle on what an appropriate portion size looks like. I know the calories in my morning cuppa, I know what two eggs 'cost', etc. My recipes and all the things I usually eat or drink are entered in my database. That's my "Food Repertoire," if you will. On the odd occasion something different comes along - either a new product at the store, a recipe I want to try, or a restaurant meal I haven't had before - I'll take the time to figure out how calorically 'spendy' it is and add it in.
I've given myself a maintenance weight range. I step on the scale 2 or 3 times a week. If I see my weight consistently trending upwards and threatening to approach the upper limit, I know it's time to be more diligent. So I'll go back to weighing and logging until it's down where I want it to be. Doing that is also a good refresher course for me on what a portion size really is. It's easy for that to get a wee bit bigger over the course of time.
The other thing I do is I will occasionally and randomly test myself. Let's say I make meatloaf for dinner. I give myself what I think is the right portion size and then I'll weigh it to make sure. Or I grab a handful of grapes for a snack. I'll guess how much they weigh and then pop them on the scale to see how close I am. I actually find that fun!
But I could just be weird...
And to play off my analogy above, I'd say yours (and others using a similar strategy) would be more like embarking on that same trip to Osnabrock, North Dakota when you've been there before and have a decent recollection of how to get there. You had to use the map your first time, but now you're generally familiar with the journey and pretty comfortable with it for the vast majority of the way. You may have to occasionally stop and check the map to refresh your memory on where to turn or which road to take, but all in all you've got a good handle on it.8 -
learners0permit wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
That sounds a heck of a lot like how I got 20 lbs overweight in the first place
I didn't have an unhealthy relationship with food. I just ate a little bit too much, every day, over 10 years or so. Calorie counting helped me stop eating that little bit extra. It helped me see where I was wasting calories. It helped me see I was accidentally eating pretty low protein, and sometimes low fiber. It made it easier to correct that.
I was hardly ever hungry while I was losing weight here. And I eat much "healthier" now that I can see everything in black & white.
I don't have an intuitive relationship with my bank account either. I have to keep track of that stuff or drift off course.
I think we may be losing sight of what intuitive eating is. Look at children, if you give them options to healthy foods and unhealthy foods throughout their childhood they will chose what they need to grow. They will also eat as much as they are hungry for and not much more. This is the basis of intuitive eating. While intuitive eating sounds like an easy concept to grasp, it’s not when you’ve disabled yourself from listening to your body.
You've never see my nephews around candy. They're both regularly served healthy foods and their mothers are very nutritionally aware . . . but when they have the chance to cram in sugar, they're all in.3 -
When I wasn’t counting calories I wasn’t losing weight. Actually slowly putting it on.
Now I found out how many calories I need to lose weight and count them. I’m losing weight plus I see what foods are high calories and I cut them down... like beer!😂🍺3 -
amberellen12 wrote: »When I wasn’t counting calories I wasn’t losing weight. Actually slowly putting it on.
Now I found out how many calories I need to lose weight and count them. I’m losing weight plus I see what foods are high calories and I cut them down... like beer!😂🍺
NOOOOOOO!!!! Not the beer.
4 -
I had to switch to light beer and I hate light beer. It was most to lose the carbs.1
-
snickerscharlie wrote: »Wonderful analogy @AnvilHead!
Now that I've been in maintenance for a few years, I don't regularly count calories on the daily anymore.
Easily 99% of the stuff I eat and drink I've consumed many times before, anyway. I have a good handle on what an appropriate portion size looks like. I know the calories in my morning cuppa, I know what two eggs 'cost', etc. My recipes and all the things I usually eat or drink are entered in my database. That's my "Food Repertoire," if you will. On the odd occasion something different comes along - either a new product at the store, a recipe I want to try, or a restaurant meal I haven't had before - I'll take the time to figure out how calorically 'spendy' it is and add it in.
I've given myself a maintenance weight range. I step on the scale 2 or 3 times a week. If I see my weight consistently trending upwards and threatening to approach the upper limit, I know it's time to be more diligent. So I'll go back to weighing and logging until it's down where I want it to be. Doing that is also a good refresher course for me on what a portion size really is. It's easy for that to get a wee bit bigger over the course of time.
The other thing I do is I will occasionally and randomly test myself. Let's say I make meatloaf for dinner. I give myself what I think is the right portion size and then I'll weigh it to make sure. Or I grab a handful of grapes for a snack. I'll guess how much they weigh and then pop them on the scale to see how close I am. I actually find that fun!
But I could just be weird...
And to play off my analogy above, I'd say yours (and others using a similar strategy) would be more like embarking on that same trip to Osnabrock, North Dakota when you've been there before and have a decent recollection of how to get there. You had to use the map your first time, but now you're generally familiar with the journey and pretty comfortable with it for the vast majority of the way. You may have to occasionally stop and check the map to refresh your memory on where to turn or which road to take, but all in all you've got a good handle on it.
Damn, that's good, son!
2 -
I had to switch to light beer and I hate light beer. It was most to lose the carbs.
Light beer? Ugh.
Thank you, you've just added another to my list of Very Good Reasons Low Carb Is Wrong For Me. (Happy it's working well for you, as always .)
You can have my share of the light beer. If it's that or water, I'll take water. ("Like making love in a canoe . . . ." for you Monty Python fans).
NSFW link, for those who haven't heard that old saw:
https://youtu.be/JbxfFOdp-bY
4 -
Didn’t give up the beer just plan it into my daily calories. 3 beers = 420 calories.🥳 Not everyday. No light beer for me!!!! 🤮0
-
amberellen12 wrote: »Didn’t give up the beer just plan it into my daily calories. 3 beers = 420 calories.🥳 Not everyday. No light beer for me!!!! 🤮
You drink different beer than I do. 3 beers = around 800-850 calories. Not light at all . . . . 1 -
Yikes!
I drink Canadian beer - Cariboo Genuine. 1 can = 140 calories.0 -
amberellen12 wrote: »Yikes!
I drink Canadian beer - Cariboo Genuine. 1 can = 140 calories.
Common choice for me: Ellison (East Lansing, MI, USA) at http://www.ellisonbrewing.com/brew-pub/, my preferred options are n the 6.5%ABV to 7%ABV range, which means probably 262-268ish calories per 16oz. pint, which is 787-804 per 3 beers . . . except usually mug club so 20 oz., thus . . . um, more?
Lummesome craft IPA.
Tonight, Bad Brewing (Mason, MI): Hop Dancer 16oz (7% ABV) and Hop Resolution 12oz (10.8% ABV) - don't worry, I didn't drive - so maybe 268 + I dunno, maybe 310? = 578 or so?
I rarely drink 3 pints. Never that much if I drive, for sure. I'm not that big. 1 -
I love IPA's, Stouts and porter but unless its a special occasion, like when I visit my son this weekend, it is Corona light. Makes me think of water. Corona Premier is only 2.6g carb but it is more like nasty water.0
-
I noticed several menus now post calorie information on the beverage menus including beer. Very helpful as the range varies so much with all the winter brews and bourbon barrel releases.4
-
I know to alcohol level is high if they serve it in a glass smaller than a pint too.0
-
learners0permit wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
Given how daunting the statistics on long term weight loss are, what do you determine has been found to be sustainable?
Intuitive eating is the seemingly best approach to a healthy life. While a diet focuses on weight, inituive eating focuses on healing an unhealthy relationship with food. This means no denying yourself food when you’re hungry, even if you’ve “run out of calories for the day”, but it also means choosing healthy foods most of the time, and those more tempting foods sometimes. There’s plenty of books if you’re sick of dieting and want to look at a long term approach to loving and honoring your body!
That sounds a heck of a lot like how I got 20 lbs overweight in the first place
I didn't have an unhealthy relationship with food. I just ate a little bit too much, every day, over 10 years or so. Calorie counting helped me stop eating that little bit extra. It helped me see where I was wasting calories. It helped me see I was accidentally eating pretty low protein, and sometimes low fiber. It made it easier to correct that.
I was hardly ever hungry while I was losing weight here. And I eat much "healthier" now that I can see everything in black & white.
I don't have an intuitive relationship with my bank account either. I have to keep track of that stuff or drift off course.
I think we may be losing sight of what intuitive eating is. Look at children, if you give them options to healthy foods and unhealthy foods throughout their childhood they will chose what they need to grow. They will also eat as much as they are hungry for and not much more. This is the basis of intuitive eating. While intuitive eating sounds like an easy concept to grasp, it’s not when you’ve disabled yourself from listening to your body.
Er, you don't actually have children do you
15 -
learners0permit wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
How so? Lots of long term successful people here on MFP.
I’m more speaking of what research shows. I’m not sure the statistics of how many people keep off the weight for 5+ years just on this app.
Most of the veterans posting here have been maintaining several years, I'm not sure how many are over 5 yet.
I have a feeling that the successful maintainers stay around and the ones that can't maintain get bored and leave. I would love to what those number are.
I've been in maintenance for over 5 years now (went off track this year and gained a few pounds, but still at a very healthy weight even with the gain, with a current bmi of 22.8), and I've been on and off MFP during that time-really the forums get tedious and repetitive after a while and I can't imagine staying on here consistently for the years and years of maintenance, though I know a few have.
I'd also be curious to know how many here currently have been maintaining a loss for over 5 years. Would be an interesting poll 1 -
Yes start a poll. I would like to know how many have maintain too and how they did it and what plan, if any, they followed.1
-
learners0permit wrote: »I’m more speaking of what research shows. I’m not sure the statistics of how many people keep off the weight for 5+ years just on this app.
If you hang around this forum long enough, you'll see that few people recommend "just this app" as a strategy for keeping weight off long term. I don't believe hard data exists that proves intuitive eating is more effective than other strategies (like weight and calorie monitoring or using this forum) for keeping weight off long term. Tribole and Rensch's evidence as I recall is largely anecdotal.
Intuitive eating is a tool developed for working with people with clinical eating order diagnoses. There's no evidence as far as I know that you can extrapolate from that population to all people with weight problems. One of the potential dangers is assuming that all weight losers are equally capable at tasks like monitoring internal hunger/satiety cues, or portion control. I personally find that combining some of the intuitive/mindfulness techniques with weight and calorie monitoring works long term for me. But that may not be the case for all people struggling with maintenance.
6 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »@learners0permit
Lemur, GottaBurn, Anvil, Tackle, Snicker are some of my favorite posters hands down (I'm sure I left off a few so apologies) so I usually always agree or take their posts as a stepping off platform to learn.
I did go to intuitiveeating.org to see what the difference between intuitive and mindful eating and how they are defined other than just knowing the word differences. In particular I looked at the 10 principles of intuitive eating.
I don't disagree with most of the principles of intuitive eating (IF this is what you are talking about) except I have a big problem with #5. Most don't understand eating until full or eating only when hungry. I think that's the part that these wise posters are trying to point out is the flaw with "intuitive" eating if I may speak for them.
Speaking strictly for myself I don't know intuitivly (defined as without conscious reasoning; instinctively) know when I'm full or hungry. I only know this by being more mindful of what I eat and how much of it I eat and to a lesser degree what I eat.
https://www.intuitiveeating.org/10-principles-of-intuitive-eating/
That link was an interesting and thought-provoking addition to this "intuitive eating" sub-thread IMO. I'm circling back to it partly in response to some of the more recent posts on the thread.
I read the 10 principles, and didn't really see anything wrong with any of them, but overall felt they were written for someone who is clearly and emphatically not me. Only 5, 6, and 10 have any practical use for me at all, and even for those I have to stand back and squint in order to find it.
I don't feel self-hate for over-eating, I don't do a bunch of emotional eating, I didn't hate my body even when it was fat, I exercised a good lot even while obese, I don't deprive myself, I don't demonize foods, I haven't done a fad diet in decades (at least; I don't have any clear memory of doing one even as a teenager; portion control and/or rough calorie-estimating was my main strategy previously, and that was rare), etc. This list is not talking to me (which is not intended as any implied judgement of people whom it is talking to).
My problem with food is mostly liking it, plus hedonism and self-indulgence as a general character fault. I like food, it's tasty, and I will readily eat more of it (for my immediate pleasure) than is good for me (for my long term health). Recognizing the health warning signs as I got older was what led me to finally decide to lose weight, and mean it. Calorie counting helps me manage my inner hedonist to balance the short and long term happiness.
As others have said, it's like having a financial budget so you make sure you can take a vacation and still pay the rent, while saving for retirement - or whatever your personal goals happen to be. Oddly, I can do most of that money stuff "intuitively" without a formal financial budget, but eating will get away from me without more structure.
I'm in maintenance year 3, BTW, BMI typically 22-point-something, age 63, still counting most days, and monitoring with with Libra.3 -
For me it was taking my eye off the ball. I was okay with monitoring my calories but when my running decreased from my 30+ weekly the scale began moving up. I really didn't want to go back to counting everything I ate calorie by calorie. I never thought about LCHF WOE but stumbled across it and thought I would research it. I like what I saw and it has had a positive effect on me in weight loss, blood work numbers and the way I feel full. Time will tell if it will be successful long term but that's the plan.1
-
gatherum89 wrote: »I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But has anyone else seen these people on YouTube or articles on the web talking about how counting calories does not work. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation that try’s to really over complicate things for no reason, que fog horn sound. Is counting calories to harsh of a reality for most people to deal with. I’ve lost almost 100 pounds using a caloric deficit, And this stuff just makes me facepalm over and over again.
If you want to sell something and there is a cheaper alternative on the market then part of your marketing strategy will be to discredit the cheaper alternative. Nothing is cheaper than free and calorie counting is free....it just requires discipline.
First suspicion about someone producing videos online stating calorie counting doesn't work is that they are selling something.11 -
learners0permit wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
How so? Lots of long term successful people here on MFP.
I’m more speaking of what research shows. I’m not sure the statistics of how many people keep off the weight for 5+ years just on this app.
Most of the veterans posting here have been maintaining several years, I'm not sure how many are over 5 yet.
I have a feeling that the successful maintainers stay around and the ones that can't maintain get bored and leave. I would love to what those number are.
It would be interesting. Could be that the educational aspects of calorie counting which persist long after the need to log has gone may equip people better for future long term maintenance but that's just a guess.
I don't know anyone in real life that is actively calorie counting but the majority of people I know are maintaining their weight (but obviously not all maintaining at a good weight!).
Christmas Eve will be my 6 year anniversary of maintaining, stopped food logging ages ago and only stay due to my interest in exercise/training/fitness. I can't be the only person that only needed (or wanted) to calorie count for weight loss but don't need that level of accuracy to maintain.8 -
learners0permit wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
How so? Lots of long term successful people here on MFP.
I’m more speaking of what research shows. I’m not sure the statistics of how many people keep off the weight for 5+ years just on this app.
Most of the veterans posting here have been maintaining several years, I'm not sure how many are over 5 yet.
I have a feeling that the successful maintainers stay around and the ones that can't maintain get bored and leave. I would love to what those number are.
It would be interesting. Could be that the educational aspects of calorie counting which persist long after the need to log has gone may equip people better for future long term maintenance but that's just a guess.
I don't know anyone in real life that is actively calorie counting but the majority of people I know are maintaining their weight (but obviously not all maintaining at a good weight!).
Christmas Eve will be my 6 year anniversary of maintaining, stopped food logging ages ago and only stay due to my interest in exercise/training/fitness. I can't be the only person that only needed (or wanted) to calorie count for weight loss but don't need that level of accuracy to maintain.
Your not the only one.
I am just hitting 9 years of maintenance and haven’t logged since 2010 on a continuos basis.
I have logged for a couple of weeks here and there to check my cal increase when my activity level changes, but that is it.
I hang around to keep my Interested in exercise, my weak spot.
Even though I have done it for 10yr now it doesn’t come natural or easy, and I’m too old not too.
Cheers, h.6 -
middlehaitch wrote: »learners0permit wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »koppimaggie wrote: »I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.
How so? Lots of long term successful people here on MFP.
I’m more speaking of what research shows. I’m not sure the statistics of how many people keep off the weight for 5+ years just on this app.
Most of the veterans posting here have been maintaining several years, I'm not sure how many are over 5 yet.
I have a feeling that the successful maintainers stay around and the ones that can't maintain get bored and leave. I would love to what those number are.
It would be interesting. Could be that the educational aspects of calorie counting which persist long after the need to log has gone may equip people better for future long term maintenance but that's just a guess.
I don't know anyone in real life that is actively calorie counting but the majority of people I know are maintaining their weight (but obviously not all maintaining at a good weight!).
Christmas Eve will be my 6 year anniversary of maintaining, stopped food logging ages ago and only stay due to my interest in exercise/training/fitness. I can't be the only person that only needed (or wanted) to calorie count for weight loss but don't need that level of accuracy to maintain.
Your not the only one.
I am just hitting 9 years of maintenance and haven’t logged since 2010 on a continuos basis.
I have logged for a couple of weeks here and there to check my cal increase when my activity level changes, but that is it.
I hang around to keep my Interested in exercise, my weak spot.
Even though I have done it for 10yr now it doesn’t come natural or easy, and I’m too old not too.
Cheers, h.
Chapeau young lady!
It does become a habit doesn't it? I'd miss some of my online friends too.
I'm a bit weird and still log my exercise calories to stay calorie aware. Exercise is my strong point as I really enjoy it, it's the food side of the equation that has the power to trip me up.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 176K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.6K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions