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Calorie deniers
gatherum89
Posts: 28 Member
in Debate Club
I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But has anyone else seen these people on YouTube or articles on the web talking about how counting calories does not work. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation that try’s to really over complicate things for no reason, que fog horn sound. Is counting calories to harsh of a reality for most people to deal with. I’ve lost almost 100 pounds using a caloric deficit, And this stuff just makes me facepalm over and over again.
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Replies
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gatherum89 wrote: »I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But has anyone else seen these people on YouTube or articles on the web talking about how counting calories does not work. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation that try’s to really over complicate things for no reason, que fog horn sound. Is counting calories to harsh of a reality for most people to deal with. I’ve lost almost 100 pounds using a caloric deficit, And this stuff just makes me facepalm over and over again.
No money in promoting straight calorie counting.32 -
I think it comes down to looking for ways to "hack" or "trick" the process.
"There are no calories in stolen food!" (Roz on Nightcourt, after swiping a fry from Christine's plate.)
"Cookie crumbs... no calories!" (Cathy in the comic strip, after pounding a plateful of cookies to shards).
"I didn't do it, nobody saw me, you can't prove anything!" (Bart Simpson, not talking about going off-track per se, but as someone who, for a long time, dieted at the dinner table and then started sneaking leftovers after the meal... I think I can relate.)
So when someone comes along and says, "As long as you eat keto/eat clean/down ACV in wheatgrass juice with a splash of cayenne/eliminate X, Y, and Z", you don't have to worry about calories... We perk up. "Really? There's a hack for this! I must try this!"
And if the restrictions/additions happen to either have a placebo effect on you or help your satiety levels, then it's easy to buy into the hype. But underneath it all... however you want to dress it up or wrap it in artificial rules, it's still about the calorie deficit.19 -
Counting calories means paying attention and doing a bit of work. Magic bullets do it all for you. In 1727, Thomas Short observed that fat people live near swamps. Therefore, to lose weight, move away from swamps. The first "detox" diet as far as I know came out in 1941 - the lemonade diet.
In spite of all these magic bullets, people are fatter than ever: adult obesity rates now exceed 35% in seven states, 30% in 29 states and 25% in 48 states (see linked article below). Obviously, none of these magic bullets work worth a damn; if they did, obesity rates would be going down instead of up. Yet people continue to put their faith in them and write checks to the quacks promoting them.
https://stateofobesity.org/adult-obesity/10 -
To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian
, calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies. 29 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian , calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies.
So a short synopsis is you don't have to count calories, but calories count when it comes to weight loss.23 -
tbright1965 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian , calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies.
So a short synopsis is you don't have to count calories, but calories count when it comes to weight loss.
i'd like to slightly revise the bolded above:
So a short synopsis is if your weight self-manages itself, you don't have to count calories, but counting calories does mattercount when it comes to weight loss.0 -
tbright1965 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian , calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies.
So a short synopsis is you don't have to count calories, but calories count when it comes to weight loss.
i'd like to slightly revise the bolded above:
So a short synopsis is if your weight self-manages itself, you don't have to count calories, but counting calories does mattercount when it comes to weight loss.
I wanted to leave count in there for the play on words.
One of the synonyms for count is to matter.
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tbright1965 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian , calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies.
So a short synopsis is you don't have to count calories, but calories count when it comes to weight loss.
i'd like to slightly revise the bolded above:
So a short synopsis is if your weight self-manages itself, you don't have to count calories, but counting calories does mattercount when it comes to weight loss.
Not necessarily. Even people whose weight isn't self-managing can lose weight without counting calories *if* they adopt dietary strategies that put them into a deficit overall. Counting calories isn't required for weight loss, it's just a tool that makes it easier for people to consistently get into a deficit.13 -
janejellyroll wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian , calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies.
So a short synopsis is you don't have to count calories, but calories count when it comes to weight loss.
i'd like to slightly revise the bolded above:
So a short synopsis is if your weight self-manages itself, you don't have to count calories, but counting calories does mattercount when it comes to weight loss.
Not necessarily. Even people whose weight isn't self-managing can lose weight without counting calories *if* they adopt dietary strategies that put them into a deficit overall. Counting calories isn't required for weight loss, it's just a tool that makes it easier for people to consistently get into a deficit.
Sure it is possible for some to find strategies that don't involve counting calories. I have no clue what other dietary strategies might also work, and maybe some of the folks that don't want to count would like to hear more about what you refer to!0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian , calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies.
So a short synopsis is you don't have to count calories, but calories count when it comes to weight loss.
i'd like to slightly revise the bolded above:
So a short synopsis is if your weight self-manages itself, you don't have to count calories, but counting calories does mattercount when it comes to weight loss.
Not necessarily. Even people whose weight isn't self-managing can lose weight without counting calories *if* they adopt dietary strategies that put them into a deficit overall. Counting calories isn't required for weight loss, it's just a tool that makes it easier for people to consistently get into a deficit.
Sure it is possible for some to find strategies that don't involve counting calories. I have no clue what other dietary strategies might also work, and maybe some of the folks that don't want to count would like to hear more about what you refer to!
Some common methods are restricting the times of day that one eats (IF, OMAD) or restricting the types of food one eats (low fat, keto, low carbohydrate, WFPB, paleo, etc). These aren't guaranteed to work, as some people can adopt them and still wind up eating too many calories. But others find that these work to limit the number of calories they consume and they can lose/maintain without having to count.
I do find calorie counting to be the most efficient way for me to manage my weight, but there are also people who have lost weight without ever counting a calorie.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian , calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies.
So a short synopsis is you don't have to count calories, but calories count when it comes to weight loss.
i'd like to slightly revise the bolded above:
So a short synopsis is if your weight self-manages itself, you don't have to count calories, but counting calories does mattercount when it comes to weight loss.
Not necessarily. Even people whose weight isn't self-managing can lose weight without counting calories *if* they adopt dietary strategies that put them into a deficit overall. Counting calories isn't required for weight loss, it's just a tool that makes it easier for people to consistently get into a deficit.
Sure it is possible for some to find strategies that don't involve counting calories. I have no clue what other dietary strategies might also work, and maybe some of the folks that don't want to count would like to hear more about what you refer to!
Some common methods are restricting the times of day that one eats (IF, OMAD) or restricting the types of food one eats (low fat, keto, low carbohydrate, WFPB, paleo, etc). These aren't guaranteed to work, as some people can adopt them and still wind up eating too many calories. But others find that these work to limit the number of calories they consume and they can lose/maintain without having to count.
I do find calorie counting to be the most efficient way for me to manage my weight, but there are also people who have lost weight without ever counting a calorie.
There are also some people (who are not me) who can lose and maintain if they stay mindful of portion control.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian , calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies.
So a short synopsis is you don't have to count calories, but calories count when it comes to weight loss.
i'd like to slightly revise the bolded above:
So a short synopsis is if your weight self-manages itself, you don't have to count calories, but counting calories does mattercount when it comes to weight loss.
Not necessarily. Even people whose weight isn't self-managing can lose weight without counting calories *if* they adopt dietary strategies that put them into a deficit overall. Counting calories isn't required for weight loss, it's just a tool that makes it easier for people to consistently get into a deficit.
Sure it is possible for some to find strategies that don't involve counting calories. I have no clue what other dietary strategies might also work, and maybe some of the folks that don't want to count would like to hear more about what you refer to!
Some common methods are restricting the times of day that one eats (IF, OMAD) or restricting the types of food one eats (low fat, keto, low carbohydrate, WFPB, paleo, etc). These aren't guaranteed to work, as some people can adopt them and still wind up eating too many calories. But others find that these work to limit the number of calories they consume and they can lose/maintain without having to count.
I do find calorie counting to be the most efficient way for me to manage my weight, but there are also people who have lost weight without ever counting a calorie.
There are also some people (who are not me) who can lose and maintain if they stay mindful of portion control.
Oh, yeah! I forgot that one. Portion control is another one.
It didn't work for me either, but I know some people have had success with it.1 -
I don't understand when people poo-poo on calorie counting. My opinion is, if you don't like it, then don't do it. Fine. But that doesn't mean it's not a good tool for other people. Different things work for different people. We here all know counting calories works. And people have also been successful doing other things to control their calories without actually keeping a food diary. And that's fine too. I think counting calories is the most straight-forward way to manage your weight but I realize it's too tedious for some people.
I don't know if you're referring to people who say "counting calories" doesn't work, or people that say calories don't matter, it's all about where your calories come from. Because I've heard both.2 -
There are quite a few of ways to lose without counting calories.
Portion control.
Cutting down on snacks.
Depending on how much pop one drinks, just switching to 0 cal can give one a reasonable deficit. (260 cal a day for me)
Exercise, without eating more than one did pre exercise.
Food or food group avoidance/restriction.
Counting, I find is the most accurate, but other methods do work, and are more suitable for some.
Cheers, h.7 -
Out of personal experience, counting calories is important but when I eat Carbs with a calorie deficit I don't lose weight, I only lose weight on a low carb calorie deficit diet, everybody is different.40
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janejellyroll wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian , calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies.
So a short synopsis is you don't have to count calories, but calories count when it comes to weight loss.
i'd like to slightly revise the bolded above:
So a short synopsis is if your weight self-manages itself, you don't have to count calories, but counting calories does mattercount when it comes to weight loss.
Not necessarily. Even people whose weight isn't self-managing can lose weight without counting calories *if* they adopt dietary strategies that put them into a deficit overall. Counting calories isn't required for weight loss, it's just a tool that makes it easier for people to consistently get into a deficit.
Sure it is possible for some to find strategies that don't involve counting calories. I have no clue what other dietary strategies might also work, and maybe some of the folks that don't want to count would like to hear more about what you refer to!
Amy - I consciously have to manage my weight but I don't have to count calories to do that.
My weight doesn't manage itself and if I eat intuitively that results in steady weight gain.
I weigh daily and react to changing weight trends by making different food choices or simply eating less (skip breakfast, less snacks, smaller meals etc...) - I'm managing my calorie balance but not counting to achieve that. I can lose slowly when necessary when I have to or want to.
Calorie counting was useful for a while and very educational about where my calories were coming from but it's just not necessary for me long term. Guess I'm in the middle of the range going from people who have to count to the other extreme of people like my son who doesn't have to give any thought at all to stay a healthy weight.
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gatherum89 wrote: »I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But has anyone else seen these people on YouTube or articles on the web talking about how counting calories does not work. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation that try’s to really over complicate things for no reason, que fog horn sound. Is counting calories to harsh of a reality for most people to deal with. I’ve lost almost 100 pounds using a caloric deficit, And this stuff just makes me facepalm over and over again.
Yes.
These are likely the same people who say "diets don't work on me" or "it's harder to lose weight as you get older" (yes, metabolic slowdown is real; no, it is not as drastic as people like to say it is).4 -
The weight loss industry makes billions of dollars a year ($68.2 billion in the U.S. alone in 2017 according to this market analysis) by convincing people that weight loss isn't about calories - it's about their supplement, book, videos, diet/workout program, etc..
Despite the fact that it's repeatedly been scientifically proven that a calorie deficit is the only way to lose weight, people fall for the industry's hype, pseudoscience and slick marketing over and over again. They're looking for that magic pill/potion which will melt/blast/zap the fat off them quickly and easily without having to put forth any effort or make any significant changes in their current lifestyle. The thing is, any successful weight loss program is just tricking you into establishing and maintaining a calorie deficit. There are a lot of different ways to achieve that, but it all comes down to calories in the end.10 -
tarekhamouda7445 wrote: »Out of personal experience, counting calories is important but when I eat Carbs with a calorie deficit I don't lose weight, I only lose weight on a low carb calorie deficit diet, everybody is different.
This isn't really possible. In a calorie deficit, you're going to lose weight -- even if it is higher carbohydrate. Your body can't run for "free."18 -
janejellyroll wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian , calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies.
So a short synopsis is you don't have to count calories, but calories count when it comes to weight loss.
i'd like to slightly revise the bolded above:
So a short synopsis is if your weight self-manages itself, you don't have to count calories, but counting calories does mattercount when it comes to weight loss.
Not necessarily. Even people whose weight isn't self-managing can lose weight without counting calories *if* they adopt dietary strategies that put them into a deficit overall. Counting calories isn't required for weight loss, it's just a tool that makes it easier for people to consistently get into a deficit.
Sure it is possible for some to find strategies that don't involve counting calories. I have no clue what other dietary strategies might also work, and maybe some of the folks that don't want to count would like to hear more about what you refer to!
There are ways to become rich without tracking your finances. You simply need to make more than you spend. There may be several strategies that work, but ignoring the foundational facts behind the process is not one leading to success.9 -
tarekhamouda7445 wrote: »Out of personal experience, counting calories is important but when I eat Carbs with a calorie deficit I don't lose weight, I only lose weight on a low carb calorie deficit diet, everybody is different.
No, everybody is not different when it comes to the laws of energy balance. If you are in a sustained/consistent calorie deficit, you will lose weight regardless of the macronutrient composition of your diet, what time of the day you eat or how often you eat. Period. What you're claiming is not scientifically/physiologically possible.21 -
Most articles I've read that say "counting calories doesn't work" fall back on two arguments we get often here, and I think dispel quite well.
- People who are counting calories pay no attention to types of foods/nutrition, and eating nothing but crap (which for some reason it's assumed everyone would naturally do) will make you miserable and you'll quit.
- It is impossible to count calories 100% accurately, so you'll probably get it wrong and it won't work.
I agree with what some others have said, that you don't HAVE to count calories, but whether you do or not, it's the calories that determine whether you lose weight or not. Some of us like to face the details head on and count those pesky buggers, others like to use a work around where focusing on something else causes you to eat less calories naturally. It can sound really math-intensive and complicated/time consuming for people who have never done it, and for some people (who just really have a tough time with numbers, or who have an obsessive personality), it can become complicated and time consuming.12 -
Most articles I've read that say "counting calories doesn't work" fall back on two arguments we get often here, and I think dispel quite well.
- People who are counting calories pay no attention to types of foods/nutrition, and eating nothing but crap (which for some reason it's assumed everyone would naturally do) will make you miserable and you'll quit.
- It is impossible to count calories 100% accurately, so you'll probably get it wrong and it won't work.
I agree with what some others have said, that you don't HAVE to count calories, but whether you do or not, it's the calories that determine whether you lose weight or not. Some of us like to face the details head on and count those pesky buggers, others like to use a work around where focusing on something else causes you to eat less calories naturally. It can sound really math-intensive and complicated/time consuming for people who have never done it, and for some people (who just really have a tough time with numbers, or who have an obsessive personality), it can become complicated and time consuming.
This is spot on. Rejection requires construction of a strawman to deconstruct.
In both examples neither hold a high priority of influence in weight management. Both examples pose a threat to the denier mentality.
You don't have to count, but you have to engage in behaviors that result in caloric maintenance/deficit. There are several experience posters on this forum who no longer count calories, but they did at some point. This is one of many strategies for success - to implement behaviors to ensure successful weight management10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian , calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies.
So a short synopsis is you don't have to count calories, but calories count when it comes to weight loss.
i'd like to slightly revise the bolded above:
So a short synopsis is if your weight self-manages itself, you don't have to count calories, but counting calories does mattercount when it comes to weight loss.
Not necessarily. Even people whose weight isn't self-managing can lose weight without counting calories *if* they adopt dietary strategies that put them into a deficit overall. Counting calories isn't required for weight loss, it's just a tool that makes it easier for people to consistently get into a deficit.
Sure it is possible for some to find strategies that don't involve counting calories. I have no clue what other dietary strategies might also work, and maybe some of the folks that don't want to count would like to hear more about what you refer to!
I counted calories while I was losing weight...I learned a lot, but it ultimately made me a little crazy. I don't count calories to maintain or lose if I need to. Right now I'm trying to drop about 5 Lbs that I put on over the late summer/early fall when I was battling some injuries.
For one, I'm very nutrition conscious and eat pretty well whether maintaining or losing, but when losing I cut back on more of my treat foods..like usually Friday night is pizza night...when I'm cutting weight, pizza night might only be once per month.
I also typically cut back on my portions for breakfast and dinner...lunch remains more or less normal. So instead of having oats and eggs for breakfast as an example, I'll pick one or the other. For dinner, I usually just have a protein and veg vs protein, veg, and a grain or starch in maintenance. There are exceptions like tonight I'm making a black bean soup.
I also cut back on snacking. In maintenance I snack more and graze more...when I'm losing I typically keep to one or two planned snacks in the afternoon/early evening (I eat dinner late).
I usually try to give my exercise a little bump up too...I exercise regularly either way, but I typically give it a little nudge when I'm trying to lose weight...hard right now because of the winter/cold/darkness, etc...I'm usually in the position in the Spring when the cycling seasons starts to kick off, so bumping up my exercise in the Spring is as much a get ready for the season thing as it is a lose weight thing.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »To pick a nit and refine some terminology here, technically, you don't have to *count* calories. There's a difference between the people who say that a calorie deficit being needed for weight loss is "outdated science" (those people exist), and people who tell you that you don't need to count calories to lose fat.
There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Saying that, energy balance deniers (as I like to call them) are charlatan). Eat clean and lose weight! Eat whole foods and lose weight! Eat xyz way and lose weight! Calories don't matter, what you eat matters! Those people are a huge problem and make up a big chunk of the diet industry and take up a lot of oxygen in the public consciousness in regards to ideas about dieting thanks to articles in the media and social media.
As a former 210 pound whole foods vegetarian , calories do indeed matter. Nutrition is important for your health, but for weight management? Calories are king. How you handle getting them under control comes down to personal preference. I myself do like counting. It suits my control freak and nerd tendencies.
So a short synopsis is you don't have to count calories, but calories count when it comes to weight loss.
i'd like to slightly revise the bolded above:
So a short synopsis is if your weight self-manages itself, you don't have to count calories, but counting calories does mattercount when it comes to weight loss.
Not necessarily. Even people whose weight isn't self-managing can lose weight without counting calories *if* they adopt dietary strategies that put them into a deficit overall. Counting calories isn't required for weight loss, it's just a tool that makes it easier for people to consistently get into a deficit.
Sure it is possible for some to find strategies that don't involve counting calories. I have no clue what other dietary strategies might also work, and maybe some of the folks that don't want to count would like to hear more about what you refer to!
In a deficit, I typically keep meals and snacks from breakfast until dinner similar (depending on the day) and I have a "food bank" of items I chose from. Let's say snacks, I get a choice of: protein shake, cottage cheese with fruit, egg white scramble, shrimp and hot sauce, beef jerky. etc. I try not to go out of those boundaries and after weighing it once, I can eyeball the correct portion size. Making and following rules helps too, for example, having this much protein at each meal, limiting certain food items to times of day or week, they can be broken/modified of course but then I have to move things around. I also use my trend weight and know how to make adjustments in my eating habits that week to correct it if need be (ex. cut out morning snacks). This is what works for me.
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Good insightful stuff here guys, and just to be clear when I say calorie deniers I’m talking about the people who flat out say you do not need to be in a deficit to lose weight. Or on the extreme cases flat out denying it in way that a calorie is something that can’t be measured or exist in food. There are actual doctors or quacks I’d say who have their licenses right now to practice who put out videos about this stuff. Imagine being a scientist and getting behind flat earth theory lol.0
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Isn't "portion aware" just a synonym for "estimating the amount of calories based on portion size," though?tarekhamouda7445 wrote: »Out of personal experience, counting calories is important but when I eat Carbs with a calorie deficit I don't lose weight, I only lose weight on a low carb calorie deficit diet, everybody is different.
If that was true it would violate the laws of thermodynamics. With one caveat, if you aren't totally digesting certain low-carb foods it could be possible to eat more calories without gaining weight. Like for example many people can't fully digest raw nuts or certain raw vegetables. But in that case you would see the "evidence" (TMI).4 -
gatherum89 wrote: »Good insightful stuff here guys, and just to be clear when I say calorie deniers I’m talking about the people who flat out say you do not need to be in a deficit to lose weight. Or on the extreme cases flat out denying it in way that a calorie is something that can’t be measured or exist in food. There are actual doctors or quacks I’d say who have their licenses right now to practice who put out videos about this stuff. Imagine being a scientist and getting behind flat earth theory lol.
They're deluded, or deliberately being disingenuous in order to sell their books, programs, etc (I'm looking at you, Fung and Taubes). Simple as that.
In other news, one can deny the law of gravity all they want - but if they jump out of a third story window, they're still going to hit the ground whether they believe it or not. Too bad the laws of energy balance don't have such immediate and tangible results when one attempts to disprove them.9 -
gatherum89 wrote: »Good insightful stuff here guys, and just to be clear when I say calorie deniers I’m talking about the people who flat out say you do not need to be in a deficit to lose weight. Or on the extreme cases flat out denying it in way that a calorie is something that can’t be measured or exist in food. There are actual doctors or quacks I’d say who have their licenses right now to practice who put out videos about this stuff. Imagine being a scientist and getting behind flat earth theory lol.
This makes me think of shouty guy. I haven't seen him around in a while. He would come and type in all caps about how calories aren't a real thing. That carbon was the key to energy for weight. He wouldn't tell me how to count carbon in my food though. He claimed to be friends with all the big named physicists. He also devolved into name calling. His coherency seemed to drop with every single post, not that he seemed too coherent to begin with. He did have a few posters he seemed to like. Maybe he's mourning the passing of Stephen Hawking (RIP - what a brilliant mind we lost there).4 -
laurenq1991 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »There are other ways of losing fat besides calorie counting like becoming portion aware. Calorie counting doesn't work for everyone.
Isn't "portion aware" just a synonym for "estimating the amount of calories based on portion size," though?
No, it's a means of calorie restriction without exactly counting every calorie. Some seem to do well simply cutting back on portion size and continuing to keep an eye on it. They also do things like cut back on snacking, make wise food choices, etc.
Honestly, I maintained a reasonable weight for some time at one point when I was younger simply doing that myself. I still weighed a bit more than I wanted to, but I was a relatively low weight given my own history with weight at the time.
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