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why do people think you can be healthy at every size?

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  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,524 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Not so, the old guy.

    And this I do know, since working with patients blood test results is big part of my job.

    Sure, the more obese you get and the older you get, the more likely you are to have glucose, cholesterol, high blood pressure

    But this idea that somebody age over 60 and BMI of, say, 32 and no poor test results is a rarity - not true.

    That's interesting. When it comes up in conversations it seems like none of my significantly overweight or obese friends has blood markers in the normal range without the use of some drug(s). Just personal observation.

    From your background do you have any stats on % of older obese individuals with normal blood markers and not on medicine vs those of a normal weight?


    No I don't have any actual percentages. Is just my general observation that blood test results not having anything in abnormal range is not rare in older unmedicated patients with BMI's over 30.

    I'm sure the percentage of such is less than the percentage of older healthy BMI range people - I don't dispute that.

    I do dispute that it is a rarity to be over 60, unmedicated and returning normal blood test results though.
  • wmd1979
    wmd1979 Posts: 469 Member
    mcemino2 wrote: »
    davani09 wrote: »
    it's unhealthy to be obese

    Do you think Dwayne Johnson is unhealthy? He is technically considered obese.

    I don't know about how helpful it is to use someone who's likely on PEDs as a counter example.

    Even if he isn't on PED's, he is recognized as an outlier. That in no way invalidates the standard.

    Exactly. It is the same tired argument, and it seems like people use that strawman it to make obesity appear acceptable or healthy in some way.
  • JustinAnimal
    JustinAnimal Posts: 1,335 Member
    To sympathize with the OP's confusion, I have family members who are morbidly obese. Like, not healthy by anyone's definition. Loss of function like picking things up or climbing stairs. They quite regularly post a lot of fat-acceptance... I don't know... memes? Things like: "Your body is a garden; let is flourish." I worry for them, because I believe their weight will one day lead to something bad. I'm not here to judge anyone. I just want to keep my family members around as long as possible.
  • JustinAnimal
    JustinAnimal Posts: 1,335 Member
    Oh, I didn't realize we were discussing obesity like obesity on paper. Yeah, I'm obese, too. Or I should say I just left it. Most of those charts tell you to disregard or take with a grain of salt if you strength train / lift weights. My relatives are not body-builders.
  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
    mcemino2 wrote: »
    davani09 wrote: »
    it's unhealthy to be obese

    Do you think Dwayne Johnson is unhealthy? He is technically considered obese.

    Do you think he really has over 25% body fat?

    Obesity is having too much fat. It's not about how much you weigh, it's about how much fat you carry. To be obese, you have to carry over 25% body fat as a man, and 30% for a woman, IIRC.

    Are you telling me you think Dwayne Johnson carries over 25% body fat?

    No. Obesity is medically defined by having a BMI over 30. That is the only standardized use of the term medically.
    The concept proxies having excess fat, but there are aspects of obesity that persist regardless of body fat percentage. For example, both sleep apnea and risk of knee issues are both predicted by being obese, even when a person has what would be considered "acceptable" body fat percentage.
  • tbright1965
    tbright1965 Posts: 852 Member
    Actually Obesity is medically defined as excess body fat. BMI is a Proxy to estimate it, but isn’t perfect as it doesn’t account for people like Dwane Johnson.

    People conflate BMI for body fat percentage, and there is some correlation. But not all who have a BMI > 30 are actually obese. But they are certainly worth another look.
    mcemino2 wrote: »
    davani09 wrote: »
    it's unhealthy to be obese

    Do you think Dwayne Johnson is unhealthy? He is technically considered obese.

    Do you think he really has over 25% body fat?

    Obesity is having too much fat. It's not about how much you weigh, it's about how much fat you carry. To be obese, you have to carry over 25% body fat as a man, and 30% for a woman, IIRC.

    Are you telling me you think Dwayne Johnson carries over 25% body fat?

    No. Obesity is medically defined by having a BMI over 30. That is the only standardized use of the term medically.
    The concept proxies having excess fat, but there are aspects of obesity that persist regardless of body fat percentage. For example, both sleep apnea and risk of knee issues are both predicted by being obese, even when a person has what would be considered "acceptable" body fat percentage.

  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
    Actually Obesity is medically defined as excess body fat. BMI is a Proxy to estimate it, but isn’t perfect as it doesn’t account for people like Dwane Johnson.

    People conflate BMI for body fat percentage, and there is some correlation. But not all who have a BMI > 30 are actually obese. But they are certainly worth another look.
    mcemino2 wrote: »
    davani09 wrote: »
    it's unhealthy to be obese

    Do you think Dwayne Johnson is unhealthy? He is technically considered obese.

    Do you think he really has over 25% body fat?

    Obesity is having too much fat. It's not about how much you weigh, it's about how much fat you carry. To be obese, you have to carry over 25% body fat as a man, and 30% for a woman, IIRC.

    Are you telling me you think Dwayne Johnson carries over 25% body fat?

    No. Obesity is medically defined by having a BMI over 30. That is the only standardized use of the term medically.
    The concept proxies having excess fat, but there are aspects of obesity that persist regardless of body fat percentage. For example, both sleep apnea and risk of knee issues are both predicted by being obese, even when a person has what would be considered "acceptable" body fat percentage.

    No, it is literally medically defined as a BMI over 30. It is literally how the World Health Organization defines it - they have no criteria for evaluating obesity on the basis of actual fat.
    At best I've seen some sports medicine organizations provide body fat percentages for it.
  • desigood
    desigood Posts: 1 Member
    trulyhealy wrote: »
    that can’t really be true if you’re fat/obese/underweight bc being bc if you were healthy you wouldn’t get fat
    trulyhealy wrote: »
    that can’t really be true if you’re fat/obese/underweight bc being bc if you were healthy you wouldn’t get fat
    trulyhealy wrote: »
    that can’t really be true if you’re fat/obese/underweight bc being bc if you were healthy you wouldn’t get fat
    trulyhealy wrote: »
    that can’t really be true if you’re fat/obese/underweight bc being bc if you were healthy you wouldn’t get fat

    Because people don’t understand that just because an overweight/underweight person does not CURRENTLY have health problems, that as time goes on, they will. Our bodies are amazing & can overcompensate for the crap we do to it—but only for so long. It’s impossible to be healthy at ANY weight. All types of health risks come with weight issues.
  • estherdragonbat
    estherdragonbat Posts: 5,284 Member
    All types of health risks come with age, genetics, job, location, etc. Sooner or later, our bodies break down. Obesity is a factor, yes. But far from the only one.
  • ceiswyn
    ceiswyn Posts: 2,256 Member
    Yeah, well, if you define ‘a healthy diet’ as ‘no more than you need’ then by definition nobody is going to get fat eating one!

    What that has to do with whether overweight people can actually be healthy is entiely beyond me, though.
  • WC1982
    WC1982 Posts: 137 Member
    I know it’s an old saying but true non the less. Your body is your car. If you maintenance it, exercise It,and give it the right fuel it will take you wherever you want to go. Or, you can put the wrong fuel in, never drive it or maintenance it and just let it fall apart. The difference is with your body you only get one. You can live a healthy life, be active with your kids, or grandchildren depending on your age, or just watch and wish. Personally I don’t want to be the parent or grandparent that only sits on the side lines and watches. I want to be active with them and feel good about my self.
  • bpetrosky
    bpetrosky Posts: 3,911 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    I note with mild amusement that the OP has not returned to the thread since her underlying assumption that overweight people can’t be healthy has been proven so completely wrong.

    I wouldn't say it has been proven wrong. I am still not convinced.

    The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.

    But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]


    I still fail to see how anyone could be obese and healthy. You simply cannot become obese following a healthy lifestyle. (Which includes a healthy and educated perception of how much one should eat, exercise, and not eating as a coping mechanism, all unhealthy behaviors)

    Body builders sometimes struggle when they have to bulk for months because it’s HARD to eat enough to put on so much weight if you are exercising and eating a balanced diet long term. It’s easy to gain a few lbs over indulging, but not the amount to become obese.

    I don’t know any obese people who exercise and eat right. I thought I did, but after living with two I realized both had a secret binging problem.

    Actually, I know a few people who had generally healthy habits that ended up overweight or even obese. That usually accompanied a change in habits (new jobs, having kids, etc) that meant they were not as active as they had been but hadn't adjusted their eating habits to match and gained weight over time (1-2 years, so they probably gained at about a rate of .5 lb per week on average). They weren't binging, just eating day-to-day according to the habits they had when they were significantly more active.

    Obviously, if a person has progressed to the higher risk obesity classes (35+ BMI) it's probable that there are co-existing psychological or behavioral issues that need to be addressed. It's a bad assumption that this is always the case for people who the overweight or low-risk obesity classes, however.



  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,887 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    I note with mild amusement that the OP has not returned to the thread since her underlying assumption that overweight people can’t be healthy has been proven so completely wrong.

    I wouldn't say it has been proven wrong. I am still not convinced.

    The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.

    But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]


    I still fail to see how anyone could be obese and healthy.

    You are misstating the claim. What OP said is that a healthy person is incapable of becoming obese, that it requires that one already have a health problem in order to become obese.

    As for whether one can be obese and be healthy, it depends on how we define healthy. Obesity is a risk factor. To minimize the change of developing a health problem, it is something that should be changed (along with other risk factors, like eating a bad diet, not exercising, lack of sleep, stress, drinking to excess, smoking). The idea of healthier at any size (in a good way -- I have big issues with what HAES has become) is that even obese people can improve their risk factors (even if for them weight loss has led to unhealthy things like restricting and bingeing or rapid loss and regain). It says you focus on the risk factors that you feel like you can control -- improve the diet, become more active.

    I would personally separate being currently unhealthy (having bad test results or a medical condition) from having risk factors that ideally should be reduced. Saying someone may currently be healthy yet obese does not mean it's not a risk factor that can be avoided and that it's not better to lose weight, but one does not automatically suffer from poor health as soon as one hits 30 BMI.

    26 BMI is not much of a risk factor, and that's the number I mentioned.
    You simply cannot become obese following a healthy lifestyle.

    If you define as "a healthy lifestyle" never overeating or not eating even a little over one's maintenance for a period of years, I suppose, but that's a circular argument and so not very interesting.

    I don't think most people equate "being healthy" and "always living a healthy lifestyle in all ways" and usually when people are claimed to not eat a healthy diet, they mean nutrient poor or too high in sugar and unhealthy fats or some such. Or bingeing behaviors, perhaps. Not merely eating enough to gain 2-5 lbs per year, and it's easy to become obese doing that, over time.

    I think most people don't find it that hard to overeat some when food is available, and most probably don't have a good natural sense of how much they are eating vs. their maintenance requirements without some reason to start focusing on this and learn.
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