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why do people think you can be healthy at every size?
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Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »
The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.
But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]
I still fail to see how anyone could be obese and healthy. You simply cannot become obese following a healthy lifestyle. (Which includes a healthy and educated perception of how much one should eat, exercise, and not eating as a coping mechanism, all unhealthy behaviors)
Body builders sometimes struggle when they have to bulk for months because it’s HARD to eat enough to put on so much weight if you are exercising and eating a balanced diet long term. It’s easy to gain a few lbs over indulging, but not the amount to become obese.
I don’t know any obese people who exercise and eat right. I thought I did, but after living with two I realized both had a secret binging problem.
Actually, I know a few people who had generally healthy habits that ended up overweight or even obese. That usually accompanied a change in habits (new jobs, having kids, etc) that meant they were not as active as they had been but hadn't adjusted their eating habits to match and gained weight over time (1-2 years, so they probably gained at about a rate of .5 lb per week on average). They weren't binging, just eating day-to-day according to the habits they had when they were significantly more active.
Obviously, if a person has progressed to the higher risk obesity classes (35+ BMI) it's probable that there are co-existing psychological or behavioral issues that need to be addressed. It's a bad assumption that this is always the case for people who the overweight or low-risk obesity classes, however.
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Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »
The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.
But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]
I still fail to see how anyone could be obese and healthy.
You are misstating the claim. What OP said is that a healthy person is incapable of becoming obese, that it requires that one already have a health problem in order to become obese.
As for whether one can be obese and be healthy, it depends on how we define healthy. Obesity is a risk factor. To minimize the change of developing a health problem, it is something that should be changed (along with other risk factors, like eating a bad diet, not exercising, lack of sleep, stress, drinking to excess, smoking). The idea of healthier at any size (in a good way -- I have big issues with what HAES has become) is that even obese people can improve their risk factors (even if for them weight loss has led to unhealthy things like restricting and bingeing or rapid loss and regain). It says you focus on the risk factors that you feel like you can control -- improve the diet, become more active.
I would personally separate being currently unhealthy (having bad test results or a medical condition) from having risk factors that ideally should be reduced. Saying someone may currently be healthy yet obese does not mean it's not a risk factor that can be avoided and that it's not better to lose weight, but one does not automatically suffer from poor health as soon as one hits 30 BMI.
26 BMI is not much of a risk factor, and that's the number I mentioned.You simply cannot become obese following a healthy lifestyle.
If you define as "a healthy lifestyle" never overeating or not eating even a little over one's maintenance for a period of years, I suppose, but that's a circular argument and so not very interesting.
I don't think most people equate "being healthy" and "always living a healthy lifestyle in all ways" and usually when people are claimed to not eat a healthy diet, they mean nutrient poor or too high in sugar and unhealthy fats or some such. Or bingeing behaviors, perhaps. Not merely eating enough to gain 2-5 lbs per year, and it's easy to become obese doing that, over time.
I think most people don't find it that hard to overeat some when food is available, and most probably don't have a good natural sense of how much they are eating vs. their maintenance requirements without some reason to start focusing on this and learn.2 -
Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »If you look at the "why did I gain weight" thread, 99 percent of the reasons are due to not being healthy. (Coping mechanisms, eating too much, eating too much high calorie food, being lazy, not being active etc)
I still would not classify eating too much as being "healthy" regardless of what the diet is made up of. It seems as though eating too much is a result of UNHEALTHY coping mechanisms or circumstances, thus leading to obesity.
No one comments "I got obese by eating a healthy diet and I didn't have any unhealthy mental issues". And I have not seen one person get morbidly obese while eating a healthy diet (not grossly more than they need), exercising, and without mental issues.
I sense this might just be a tautological claim. If mental issues that are the level that is unhealthy is so broadly defined as "I may have eaten food at some point to be happier" than I'm not sure there exists healthy people. If everyone is unhealthy, then of course, all overweight people are unhealthy too.10 -
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Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »
The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.
But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]
I still fail to see how anyone could be obese and healthy. You simply cannot become obese following a healthy lifestyle. (Which includes a healthy and educated perception of how much one should eat, exercise, and not eating as a coping mechanism, all unhealthy behaviors)
Body builders sometimes struggle when they have to bulk for months because it’s HARD to eat enough to put on so much weight if you are exercising and eating a balanced diet long term. It’s easy to gain a few lbs over indulging, but not the amount to become obese.
I don’t know any obese people who exercise and eat right. I thought I did, but after living with two I realized both had a secret binging problem.
Actually, I know a few people who had generally healthy habits that ended up overweight ...
This is me. I was never obese, about 20lbs or so overweight and while I have gotten more active in recent months, the primary difference is that I eat less now. I worked out several times a week, active on the job etc. I just had seconds every dinner and wasn't mindful of snacking throughout the day at all. It added up and snuck up.0 -
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Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »
The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.
But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]
I still fail to see how anyone could be obese and healthy.
You are misstating the claim. What OP said is that a healthy person is incapable of becoming obese, that it requires that one already have a health problem in order to become obese.
As for whether one can be obese and be healthy, it depends on how we define healthy. Obesity is a risk factor. To minimize the change of developing a health problem, it is something that should be changed (along with other risk factors, like eating a bad diet, not exercising, lack of sleep, stress, drinking to excess, smoking). The idea of healthier at any size (in a good way -- I have big issues with what HAES has become) is that even obese people can improve their risk factors (even if for them weight loss has led to unhealthy things like restricting and bingeing or rapid loss and regain). It says you focus on the risk factors that you feel like you can control -- improve the diet, become more active.
I would personally separate being currently unhealthy (having bad test results or a medical condition) from having risk factors that ideally should be reduced. Saying someone may currently be healthy yet obese does not mean it's not a risk factor that can be avoided and that it's not better to lose weight, but one does not automatically suffer from poor health as soon as one hits 30 BMI.
26 BMI is not much of a risk factor, and that's the number I mentioned.You simply cannot become obese following a healthy lifestyle.
If you define as "a healthy lifestyle" never overeating or not eating even a little over one's maintenance for a period of years, I suppose, but that's a circular argument and so not very interesting.
I don't think most people equate "being healthy" and "always living a healthy lifestyle in all ways" and usually when people are claimed to not eat a healthy diet, they mean nutrient poor or too high in sugar and unhealthy fats or some such. Or bingeing behaviors, perhaps. Not merely eating enough to gain 2-5 lbs per year, and it's easy to become obese doing that, over time.
I think most people don't find it that hard to overeat some when food is available, and most probably don't have a good natural sense of how much they are eating vs. their maintenance requirements without some reason to start focusing on this and learn.
Very good points, I completely understand where you are coming from and your words have changed my thoughts on the matter.Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »
The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.
But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]
I still fail to see how anyone could be obese and healthy. You simply cannot become obese following a healthy lifestyle. (Which includes a healthy and educated perception of how much one should eat, exercise, and not eating as a coping mechanism, all unhealthy behaviors)
Body builders sometimes struggle when they have to bulk for months because it’s HARD to eat enough to put on so much weight if you are exercising and eating a balanced diet long term. It’s easy to gain a few lbs over indulging, but not the amount to become obese.
I don’t know any obese people who exercise and eat right. I thought I did, but after living with two I realized both had a secret binging problem.
Actually, I know a few people who had generally healthy habits that ended up overweight ...
This is me. I was never obese, about 20lbs or so overweight and while I have gotten more active in recent months, the primary difference is that I eat less now. I worked out several times a week, active on the job etc. I just had seconds every dinner and wasn't mindful of snacking throughout the day at all. It added up and snuck up.
I definitely was not talking about this. I have always known small lifestyle changes like this could cause someone to be overweight. I was more talking about obese/morbidly obese. But I guess if you do nothing about it for years you would get morbidly obese. (Even with a higher BMR counteracting it)
I really think I would have gotten there if I didn't get a wake up call. It still bugs me that I let it get that far lol.4 -
I originally got obese because I was always hungry.
Is feeling unbearable hunger pangs when bored an illness?4 -
Just as a hypothetical thought experiment, I decided to run the numbers for an 'average' (5'9") 30 year old male in Scooby's calculator. If he's at a median healthy BMI (22), his weight is 150 and his TDEE at a moderate (3-5 hrs/wk) level is 2592. Supposing his activity drops to 1-3 hrs/wk, his TDEE will drop to 2300.
With that 292 cal/day difference, if his intake stays the same he'll gain slightly faster than .5 lb/wk until his weight reaches the point his maintenance matches his intake, which I estimated at about 185 lbs or a bit over 27 BMI (median overweight range). He'll reach that point in a bit under 70 weeks.
It's easy to factor in portion creep or eating out more to allow for that push him into the obese category, which again does not require any disordered or otherwise unhealthy behaviors or conditions to be present. Just following habit and not deliberately changing their intake to match their activity.
Ideally, should a person be mindful they've put on weight and course correct? Absolutely! But people often have other priorities going on in their lives and coast on their habits until they get a jarring reminder that things have changed over time. Our mental self-image often doesn't let us see those changes in the mirror unless we take measurements or weigh ourselves to do that assessment.
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Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »If you look at the "why did I gain weight" thread, 99 percent of the reasons are due to not being healthy. (Coping mechanisms, eating too much, eating too much high calorie food, being lazy, not being active etc)
If "eating too much" means you aren't healthy, then sure, but that's not a normal definition of what healthy means. People can be healthy and indulge in non-healthy behaviors. One can be healthy (as in their physical condition, test results, absence of illness and medical problems) and fail to wear a seat belt, for example.It seems as though eating too much is a result of UNHEALTHY coping mechanisms or circumstances, thus leading to obesity.
Eating too much will lead to obesity no matter why you overeat, and it's simply not accurate to claim that people only overeat as a result of being already unhealthy. Environment matters and for many people in the current environment one will have to take affirmative steps to avoid overeating.No one comments "I got obese by eating a healthy diet and I didn't have any unhealthy mental issues".
Lots of people get obese (let alone overweight) by eating a diet that is generally healthy but for the overall calories and without any unhealthy mental issues (and I would also dispute whether having some bad coping mechanisms makes you "unhealthy," especially since we are talking about physical health). It's easy and common to overeat a little over the course of a year (or gain some weight during pregnancies) and not really pay that much attention or put off dealing with it because you are focused on other things and then end up at age 40+ being within the obese category.
But in order to get obese you have to eat considerably over your maintenance for a long period of time. You don’t become obese with a generally healthy diet with occasional indulgences. You have to considerably overeat which is hard to do day in day out unless you have unhealthy reasons to do so such as mental and coping problems, etc.
I can see being overweight, but not obese which is what I am talking about. You would have to have a warped perception of how much a person should eat if you could get obese eating a healthy diet. Thus not healthy mentally and an issue that needed to be addressed.
You are telling me you know or can find examples of someone who got obese eating a healthy diet, not binging in secret or have mental struggles with eating too much, and while exercising regularly? I find that hard to believe.
Check out the Why Did You Get Fat (or whatever it's called) thread. I'd search and link but I'm on my tablet. I'm sure some have said they ate "healthy" but just too much. And I've seen people people say that before.
You can overeat chicken and broccoli just as easy as big macs and fries with or without an underlying mental reason if you enjoy that chicken and broccoli enough.0 -
Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »If you look at the "why did I gain weight" thread, 99 percent of the reasons are due to not being healthy. (Coping mechanisms, eating too much, eating too much high calorie food, being lazy, not being active etc)
I still would not classify eating too much as being "healthy" regardless of what the diet is made up of. It seems as though eating too much is a result of UNHEALTHY coping mechanisms or circumstances, thus leading to obesity.
No one comments "I got obese by eating a healthy diet and I didn't have any unhealthy mental issues". And I have not seen one person get morbidly obese while eating a healthy diet (not grossly more than they need), exercising, and without mental issues.
I sense this might just be a tautological claim. If mental issues that are the level that is unhealthy is so broadly defined as "I may have eaten food at some point to be happier" than I'm not sure there exists healthy people. If everyone is unhealthy, then of course, all overweight people are unhealthy too.
I think it is unhealthy if it is done to the point that you become obese.
So if someone regularly ate to be happy, as comfort, but they did in a calorie balance, while an obese person did so rarely, but they became obese, and thus even that rare amount was part of being obese, would that count?
I'm not really sure how looking back at people's retrospectives of why they ate is actually that insightful. There's a whole host of factors where people will have their recollections changed by narratives society expects - including that to have become overweight their relationship with food had to be mentally unhealthy.5 -
Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »If you look at the "why did I gain weight" thread, 99 percent of the reasons are due to not being healthy. (Coping mechanisms, eating too much, eating too much high calorie food, being lazy, not being active etc)
If "eating too much" means you aren't healthy, then sure, but that's not a normal definition of what healthy means. People can be healthy and indulge in non-healthy behaviors. One can be healthy (as in their physical condition, test results, absence of illness and medical problems) and fail to wear a seat belt, for example.It seems as though eating too much is a result of UNHEALTHY coping mechanisms or circumstances, thus leading to obesity.
Eating too much will lead to obesity no matter why you overeat, and it's simply not accurate to claim that people only overeat as a result of being already unhealthy. Environment matters and for many people in the current environment one will have to take affirmative steps to avoid overeating.No one comments "I got obese by eating a healthy diet and I didn't have any unhealthy mental issues".
Lots of people get obese (let alone overweight) by eating a diet that is generally healthy but for the overall calories and without any unhealthy mental issues (and I would also dispute whether having some bad coping mechanisms makes you "unhealthy," especially since we are talking about physical health). It's easy and common to overeat a little over the course of a year (or gain some weight during pregnancies) and not really pay that much attention or put off dealing with it because you are focused on other things and then end up at age 40+ being within the obese category.
But in order to get obese you have to eat considerably over your maintenance for a long period of time.
No, you don't. You have to eat slightly over your maintenance for a long period of time. I'm 5'3. The top of the healthy weight range is around 140 lbs, and I'd argue that although I don't look my best (IMO) that being 150 and active isn't actually unhealthy. Obese is 170. It's not that hard to gain 30-40 lbs (even 50 lbs) over a period of years.
Gaining 30-50 pounds over a long period of time is just a case of not giving a *kitten* IMO. There are a lot if telltale signs of weight gain to that extent like clothes not fitting right that are a signal to do something about it.9 -
Just as a hypothetical thought experiment, I decided to run the numbers for an 'average' (5'9") 30 year old male in Scooby's calculator. If he's at a median healthy BMI (22), his weight is 150 and his TDEE at a moderate (3-5 hrs/wk) level is 2592. Supposing his activity drops to 1-3 hrs/wk, his TDEE will drop to 2300.
With that 292 cal/day difference, if his intake stays the same he'll gain slightly faster than .5 lb/wk until his weight reaches the point his maintenance matches his intake, which I estimated at about 185 lbs or a bit over 27 BMI (median overweight range). He'll reach that point in a bit under 70 weeks.
It's easy to factor in portion creep or eating out more to allow for that push him into the obese category, which again does not require any disordered or otherwise unhealthy behaviors or conditions to be present. Just following habit and not deliberately changing their intake to match their activity.
Ideally, should a person be mindful they've put on weight and course correct? Absolutely! But people often have other priorities going on in their lives and coast on their habits until they get a jarring reminder that things have changed over time. Our mental self-image often doesn't let us see those changes in the mirror unless we take measurements or weigh ourselves to do that assessment.
What priorities prevent one from putting less food in their mouth?6 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Just as a hypothetical thought experiment, I decided to run the numbers for an 'average' (5'9") 30 year old male in Scooby's calculator. If he's at a median healthy BMI (22), his weight is 150 and his TDEE at a moderate (3-5 hrs/wk) level is 2592. Supposing his activity drops to 1-3 hrs/wk, his TDEE will drop to 2300.
With that 292 cal/day difference, if his intake stays the same he'll gain slightly faster than .5 lb/wk until his weight reaches the point his maintenance matches his intake, which I estimated at about 185 lbs or a bit over 27 BMI (median overweight range). He'll reach that point in a bit under 70 weeks.
It's easy to factor in portion creep or eating out more to allow for that push him into the obese category, which again does not require any disordered or otherwise unhealthy behaviors or conditions to be present. Just following habit and not deliberately changing their intake to match their activity.
Ideally, should a person be mindful they've put on weight and course correct? Absolutely! But people often have other priorities going on in their lives and coast on their habits until they get a jarring reminder that things have changed over time. Our mental self-image often doesn't let us see those changes in the mirror unless we take measurements or weigh ourselves to do that assessment.
What priorities prevent one from putting less food in their mouth?
Personally, I have a tendency to overeat when I'm stressed or upset. Right now, I've got that under control through a combination of upping my exercise and substituting lower-calorie portioned snacks, usually higher in protein or fiber. So, instead of buying a container of Pringles, I'll weigh out an ounce of roasted chickpeas. A Fiber One bar instead of a brownie. But let's say that some major stress were to hit, like (G-d forbid!) a death in the family, a medical emergency, etc. Let us further say that due to this emergency, I needed to go out of town and didn't have the luxury of my 2-hour walks or the ability to pack my dumbbells. So now, I've got greater stress than usual, and fewer ways to relieve it. Under those circumstances, I might fight it for a bit, but I think it's just a matter of time before I decide, "I can't deal with restricting calories on top of everything else in my life right now. I'll get back to it when I'm in a better frame of mind."
And then hope that when I'm in a better frame of mind, I don't look in the mirror, see the 5-10lbs I've gained back, forget the 95-100lbs that are still lost, and go back into my emotional down-spiral of feeling upset with myself, eating to numb the pain, feeling more upset with myself, eating more, etc.9 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Just as a hypothetical thought experiment, I decided to run the numbers for an 'average' (5'9") 30 year old male in Scooby's calculator. If he's at a median healthy BMI (22), his weight is 150 and his TDEE at a moderate (3-5 hrs/wk) level is 2592. Supposing his activity drops to 1-3 hrs/wk, his TDEE will drop to 2300.
With that 292 cal/day difference, if his intake stays the same he'll gain slightly faster than .5 lb/wk until his weight reaches the point his maintenance matches his intake, which I estimated at about 185 lbs or a bit over 27 BMI (median overweight range). He'll reach that point in a bit under 70 weeks.
It's easy to factor in portion creep or eating out more to allow for that push him into the obese category, which again does not require any disordered or otherwise unhealthy behaviors or conditions to be present. Just following habit and not deliberately changing their intake to match their activity.
Ideally, should a person be mindful they've put on weight and course correct? Absolutely! But people often have other priorities going on in their lives and coast on their habits until they get a jarring reminder that things have changed over time. Our mental self-image often doesn't let us see those changes in the mirror unless we take measurements or weigh ourselves to do that assessment.
What priorities prevent one from putting less food in their mouth?
It isn't that simple.
I think lots of priorities can prevent someone from focusing on weight loss - working, raising children, caring for relatives etc - ordinary real life just presents many issues and sometimes looking after yourself gets put on the back burner.
That isn't that hard to understand, is it?
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Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »If you look at the "why did I gain weight" thread, 99 percent of the reasons are due to not being healthy. (Coping mechanisms, eating too much, eating too much high calorie food, being lazy, not being active etc)
I still would not classify eating too much as being "healthy" regardless of what the diet is made up of. It seems as though eating too much is a result of UNHEALTHY coping mechanisms or circumstances, thus leading to obesity.
No one comments "I got obese by eating a healthy diet and I didn't have any unhealthy mental issues". And I have not seen one person get morbidly obese while eating a healthy diet (not grossly more than they need), exercising, and without mental issues.
What I bolded is far from universal. There is no one reason why people consume more calories than they burn. Additionally there are so many maladaptive coping mechanisms that aren't related to food.0 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Just as a hypothetical thought experiment, I decided to run the numbers for an 'average' (5'9") 30 year old male in Scooby's calculator. If he's at a median healthy BMI (22), his weight is 150 and his TDEE at a moderate (3-5 hrs/wk) level is 2592. Supposing his activity drops to 1-3 hrs/wk, his TDEE will drop to 2300.
With that 292 cal/day difference, if his intake stays the same he'll gain slightly faster than .5 lb/wk until his weight reaches the point his maintenance matches his intake, which I estimated at about 185 lbs or a bit over 27 BMI (median overweight range). He'll reach that point in a bit under 70 weeks.
It's easy to factor in portion creep or eating out more to allow for that push him into the obese category, which again does not require any disordered or otherwise unhealthy behaviors or conditions to be present. Just following habit and not deliberately changing their intake to match their activity.
Ideally, should a person be mindful they've put on weight and course correct? Absolutely! But people often have other priorities going on in their lives and coast on their habits until they get a jarring reminder that things have changed over time. Our mental self-image often doesn't let us see those changes in the mirror unless we take measurements or weigh ourselves to do that assessment.
What priorities prevent one from putting less food in their mouth?
Well, speaking personally, I got a little distracted - just a little - when the success of my career seemed to require that I work 10-15 hours a day, 7 days a week, for several months. (I did take one whole day off for my in-laws 50th anniversary party.) My perception is that 30,000+ employees would've been (dangerously) peeved if the payroll system I was replacing didn't work. I guess I should've been thinking about my weight, instead, depite then being the sole support of my household. My bad.
Then there was the "taking care of the dying mother" thing, and the "taking care of the 45-year-old dying husband" thing, and the "cleaning out the house for the dead in-laws" thing, and the "father (of only-child me) who blinded himself in a fall and had to move to assisted living immediately" thing . . . and, oh, yeah, I almost forgot, the "getting cancer and going through a year of surgery, chemotherapy, radiation, and recovery" thing (during which they tell you not to lose weight, BTW), and the basement flood, and the furnace that failed during 15 degree F weather, and the dead father's estate . . . .
I could go on, but I won't.
That's not the whole story, of course. To a certain extent, it's just excuses. It's totally excuses. I made bad choices at many points, and I freely admit it.
Did you not? Good for you.23 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Just as a hypothetical thought experiment, I decided to run the numbers for an 'average' (5'9") 30 year old male in Scooby's calculator. If he's at a median healthy BMI (22), his weight is 150 and his TDEE at a moderate (3-5 hrs/wk) level is 2592. Supposing his activity drops to 1-3 hrs/wk, his TDEE will drop to 2300.
With that 292 cal/day difference, if his intake stays the same he'll gain slightly faster than .5 lb/wk until his weight reaches the point his maintenance matches his intake, which I estimated at about 185 lbs or a bit over 27 BMI (median overweight range). He'll reach that point in a bit under 70 weeks.
It's easy to factor in portion creep or eating out more to allow for that push him into the obese category, which again does not require any disordered or otherwise unhealthy behaviors or conditions to be present. Just following habit and not deliberately changing their intake to match their activity.
Ideally, should a person be mindful they've put on weight and course correct? Absolutely! But people often have other priorities going on in their lives and coast on their habits until they get a jarring reminder that things have changed over time. Our mental self-image often doesn't let us see those changes in the mirror unless we take measurements or weigh ourselves to do that assessment.
What priorities prevent one from putting less food in their mouth?
There are many priorities that take precedence. Even without something extreme, "putting less food in your mouth" requires focus, dedication, constant learning and adjusting...etc. When something, anything, feels more important at the time, it takes precedence. I got obese eating healthy, just too much. I like food, so I overate it. My hunger signals are also more messed up than the average person and I'm capable of eating beyond fullness. I was okay with being fat just like someone else would be okay with not wearing sunscreen, not sleeping properly, or not developing healthy social relations. It just didn't feel like something I needed to prioritize at the time. It wasn't an excuse, it was a choice. I don't regret it because it was right for me at the time. When it stopped being right, I decided to shift my focus to weight loss.10 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »What priorities prevent one from putting less food in their mouth?
So given that you're on a weight loss site, what's your own answer?10 -
You can't imagine the answer to this one?Theoldguy1 wrote: »Just as a hypothetical thought experiment, I decided to run the numbers for an 'average' (5'9") 30 year old male in Scooby's calculator. If he's at a median healthy BMI (22), his weight is 150 and his TDEE at a moderate (3-5 hrs/wk) level is 2592. Supposing his activity drops to 1-3 hrs/wk, his TDEE will drop to 2300.
With that 292 cal/day difference, if his intake stays the same he'll gain slightly faster than .5 lb/wk until his weight reaches the point his maintenance matches his intake, which I estimated at about 185 lbs or a bit over 27 BMI (median overweight range). He'll reach that point in a bit under 70 weeks.
It's easy to factor in portion creep or eating out more to allow for that push him into the obese category, which again does not require any disordered or otherwise unhealthy behaviors or conditions to be present. Just following habit and not deliberately changing their intake to match their activity.
Ideally, should a person be mindful they've put on weight and course correct? Absolutely! But people often have other priorities going on in their lives and coast on their habits until they get a jarring reminder that things have changed over time. Our mental self-image often doesn't let us see those changes in the mirror unless we take measurements or weigh ourselves to do that assessment.
What priorities prevent one from putting less food in their mouth?
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paperpudding wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Just as a hypothetical thought experiment, I decided to run the numbers for an 'average' (5'9") 30 year old male in Scooby's calculator. If he's at a median healthy BMI (22), his weight is 150 and his TDEE at a moderate (3-5 hrs/wk) level is 2592. Supposing his activity drops to 1-3 hrs/wk, his TDEE will drop to 2300.
With that 292 cal/day difference, if his intake stays the same he'll gain slightly faster than .5 lb/wk until his weight reaches the point his maintenance matches his intake, which I estimated at about 185 lbs or a bit over 27 BMI (median overweight range). He'll reach that point in a bit under 70 weeks.
It's easy to factor in portion creep or eating out more to allow for that push him into the obese category, which again does not require any disordered or otherwise unhealthy behaviors or conditions to be present. Just following habit and not deliberately changing their intake to match their activity.
Ideally, should a person be mindful they've put on weight and course correct? Absolutely! But people often have other priorities going on in their lives and coast on their habits until they get a jarring reminder that things have changed over time. Our mental self-image often doesn't let us see those changes in the mirror unless we take measurements or weigh ourselves to do that assessment.
What priorities prevent one from putting less food in their mouth?
It isn't that simple.
I think lots of priorities can prevent someone from focusing on weight loss - working, raising children, caring for relatives etc - ordinary real life just presents many issues and sometimes looking after yourself gets put on the back burner.
That isn't that hard to understand, is it?
To me it honestly sounds like a lot of excuses. How much focus does it take to notice your pants don't fit and eat less? You save more time for other things in your life if you're not eating the extra serving of whatever.13 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »What priorities prevent one from putting less food in their mouth?
So given that you're on a weight loss site, what's your own answer?
Establish table push aways and fork putdowns as your primary form of exercise. Eating less would take less time allowing people to devote to the priorities mentioned.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Just as a hypothetical thought experiment, I decided to run the numbers for an 'average' (5'9") 30 year old male in Scooby's calculator. If he's at a median healthy BMI (22), his weight is 150 and his TDEE at a moderate (3-5 hrs/wk) level is 2592. Supposing his activity drops to 1-3 hrs/wk, his TDEE will drop to 2300.
With that 292 cal/day difference, if his intake stays the same he'll gain slightly faster than .5 lb/wk until his weight reaches the point his maintenance matches his intake, which I estimated at about 185 lbs or a bit over 27 BMI (median overweight range). He'll reach that point in a bit under 70 weeks.
It's easy to factor in portion creep or eating out more to allow for that push him into the obese category, which again does not require any disordered or otherwise unhealthy behaviors or conditions to be present. Just following habit and not deliberately changing their intake to match their activity.
Ideally, should a person be mindful they've put on weight and course correct? Absolutely! But people often have other priorities going on in their lives and coast on their habits until they get a jarring reminder that things have changed over time. Our mental self-image often doesn't let us see those changes in the mirror unless we take measurements or weigh ourselves to do that assessment.
What priorities prevent one from putting less food in their mouth?
It isn't that simple.
I think lots of priorities can prevent someone from focusing on weight loss - working, raising children, caring for relatives etc - ordinary real life just presents many issues and sometimes looking after yourself gets put on the back burner.
That isn't that hard to understand, is it?
To me it honestly sounds like a lot of excuses. How much focus does it take to notice your pants don't fit and eat less? You save more time for other things in your life if you're not eating the extra serving of whatever.
Fabric stretches and clothes wear out. Most of my skirts have elastic waist bands, but even the fitted ones... I wouldn't go from a size six to a size ten overnight. It's gradual. The fabric would stretch. When the time came to buy new clothes, well, sizing is inconsistent across manufacturers and styles. Right now, of the five skirts I generally wear, one's a medium, one's a six, one's an eight, one's a small, and one's an extra-small. They all fit around the same. So, when I'm buying a new skirt, if it's an eight, can you see how that won't send off alarm bells? Or how even a ten might have me think, "they must be running the sizing smaller this season?" By the time I stop kidding myself, I'm already feeling miserable about my weight and when I'm miserable I'm risking going back into the unhealthy 'using eating to numb stress/anxiety' cycle.12 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »
To me it honestly sounds like a lot of excuses. How much focus does it take to notice your pants don't fit and eat less? You save more time for other things in your life if you're not eating the extra serving of whatever.
What's your excuse for getting to presumably an adult stage in life without figuring out that not everyone has the same life you do? As well as pushing the table away, try pulling your eyelids up and reading about some other perspectives.
Food is comforting (humans are still animals after all), food is a social experience, food portion sizes are designed with an "average" person in mind and not everyone is an average person, some people were never taught to cook for themselves, some people don't have the facilities, money or time and have to use convenience options, some people are misinformed about what it takes to lose weight, some people have histories of disordered eating whether they realize it or not and those habits can be a nightmare to break, some people just don't care what size their bodies are because they have other stuff going on and all these experiences are just as valid as yours.16 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »If you look at the "why did I gain weight" thread, 99 percent of the reasons are due to not being healthy. (Coping mechanisms, eating too much, eating too much high calorie food, being lazy, not being active etc)
If "eating too much" means you aren't healthy, then sure, but that's not a normal definition of what healthy means. People can be healthy and indulge in non-healthy behaviors. One can be healthy (as in their physical condition, test results, absence of illness and medical problems) and fail to wear a seat belt, for example.It seems as though eating too much is a result of UNHEALTHY coping mechanisms or circumstances, thus leading to obesity.
Eating too much will lead to obesity no matter why you overeat, and it's simply not accurate to claim that people only overeat as a result of being already unhealthy. Environment matters and for many people in the current environment one will have to take affirmative steps to avoid overeating.No one comments "I got obese by eating a healthy diet and I didn't have any unhealthy mental issues".
Lots of people get obese (let alone overweight) by eating a diet that is generally healthy but for the overall calories and without any unhealthy mental issues (and I would also dispute whether having some bad coping mechanisms makes you "unhealthy," especially since we are talking about physical health). It's easy and common to overeat a little over the course of a year (or gain some weight during pregnancies) and not really pay that much attention or put off dealing with it because you are focused on other things and then end up at age 40+ being within the obese category.
But in order to get obese you have to eat considerably over your maintenance for a long period of time.
No, you don't. You have to eat slightly over your maintenance for a long period of time. I'm 5'3. The top of the healthy weight range is around 140 lbs, and I'd argue that although I don't look my best (IMO) that being 150 and active isn't actually unhealthy. Obese is 170. It's not that hard to gain 30-40 lbs (even 50 lbs) over a period of years.
Gaining 30-50 pounds over a long period of time is just a case of not giving a *kitten* IMO. There are a lot if telltale signs of weight gain to that extent like clothes not fitting right that are a signal to do something about it.
Yes, indeed. It's not worth trying to understand how weight gain like this happens when instead we can just judge negatively those who get into this situation. Thank you for your contribution to the thread -- it's completely on topic!
What's extra hilarious about your tone deaf comment is that no one, and certainly not me, was giving an excuse for not losing weight. If anything, I was explaining how so many normal people manage to get obese vs. the argument that they just must all have been already unhealthy in some way.
Why people don't immediately figure out a logical way to lose weight once they realize they don't like their current weight is another question, but I suspect most here who have lost weight already have their own answers.10 -
There are worse choices to deal with stress. Personally, I'm not beating myself up ever about putting on weight while I was dealing with bereavement and dealing with the estate or the creditors.Theoldguy1 wrote: »Just as a hypothetical thought experiment, I decided to run the numbers for an 'average' (5'9") 30 year old male in Scooby's calculator. If he's at a median healthy BMI (22), his weight is 150 and his TDEE at a moderate (3-5 hrs/wk) level is 2592. Supposing his activity drops to 1-3 hrs/wk, his TDEE will drop to 2300.
With that 292 cal/day difference, if his intake stays the same he'll gain slightly faster than .5 lb/wk until his weight reaches the point his maintenance matches his intake, which I estimated at about 185 lbs or a bit over 27 BMI (median overweight range). He'll reach that point in a bit under 70 weeks.
It's easy to factor in portion creep or eating out more to allow for that push him into the obese category, which again does not require any disordered or otherwise unhealthy behaviors or conditions to be present. Just following habit and not deliberately changing their intake to match their activity.
Ideally, should a person be mindful they've put on weight and course correct? Absolutely! But people often have other priorities going on in their lives and coast on their habits until they get a jarring reminder that things have changed over time. Our mental self-image often doesn't let us see those changes in the mirror unless we take measurements or weigh ourselves to do that assessment.
What priorities prevent one from putting less food in their mouth?
Well, speaking personally, I got a little distracted - just a little - when the success of my career seemed to require that I work 10-15 hours a day, 7 days a week, for several months. (I did take one whole day off for my in-laws 50th anniversary party.) My perception is that 30,000+ employees would've been (dangerously) peeved if the payroll system I was replacing didn't work. I guess I should've been thinking about my weight, instead, depite then being the sole support of my household. My bad.
Then there was the "taking care of the dying mother" thing, and the "taking care of the 45-year-old dying husband" thing, and the "cleaning out the house for the dead in-laws" thing, and the "father (of only-child me) who blinded himself in a fall and had to move to assisted living immediately" thing . . . and, oh, yeah, I almost forgot, the "getting cancer and going through a year of surgery, chemotherapy, radiation, and recovery" thing (during which they tell you not to lose weight, BTW), and the basement flood, and the furnace that failed during 15 degree F weather, and the dead father's estate . . . .
I could go on, but I won't.
That's not the whole story, of course. To a certain extent, it's just excuses. It's totally excuses. I made bad choices at many points, and I freely admit it.
Did you not? Good for you.
I didn't have headspace for weighing food, and after I'd spent a day forcing myself to do all the gruelling things associated with organising everything that comes along with a sudden death, my willpower would be too depleted to deny myself chocolate. As far as I'm concerned, I'm proud of myself; I didn't fall into the bottle, like I have seen other people do in similar situations, and I did a lot of stuff I'm proud of afterwards. I know damn well how much effort it took to carry on with the rest of my life and to meet the other commitments, and I know a lot of people would have dropped more balls than I did.
I get emotionally affected by events in my life, and that's okay.
Are you sure you're actually old? I don't know any old people who would think the solution to the kind of major life events we're talking about is to eat a slightly smaller meal to save time.Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »What priorities prevent one from putting less food in their mouth?
So given that you're on a weight loss site, what's your own answer?
Establish table push aways and fork putdowns as your primary form of exercise. Eating less would take less time allowing people to devote to the priorities mentioned.
6 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »I'm told it originally started as a movement to promote the idea one could be healthIER at every size, and that one could take steps to improve health without losing weight.
Early campaigners identified that a significant number of unfit, overweight/obese people felt unable to lose weight and also felt that if they couldn't lose weight, there was no point doing anything else to improve their health.
I think it is also important for mental health to be kind to yourself, and I personally am more likely to make positive changes if I'm doing it with grace and not beating myself up about it...8 -
I find it interesting how being overweight is seen as a moral failure. How those who judge people who are overweight do it with a hint of superiority. It just amazes me how much society shapes a person's ideas (including mine) and how deep rooted and fact-like they feel. Having a stressful job is seen as a positive thing because success is socially desirable. Having a tan is socially desirable, so not wearing sunscreen is not seen as a moral failure. Staying up late is seen as a personal choice or as an indicator of a fun-loving personality. Not being adequately social is acceptable. Not having a good posture is "meh". Long commutes and pollution heavy cities are an acceptable compromise that doesn't require uprooting your life because what you get out of it feels worth it. Having self discipline is seen as a positive trait, even if it compromises mental or social health. But weight, weight is a moral issue. It's not a valid choice, not a valid result of circumstances, but something that should be shamed. Few "vices" are as stigmatized as weight... (to be clear, I don't think any of the above examples is a vice, just a choice as valid as any other choice)
Amazing that people who do the shaming and judging believe they're morally superior and with such conviction when they're likely doing a whole bunch of other things that are risk factors for something or another. Things are rarely black or white.17 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »If you look at the "why did I gain weight" thread, 99 percent of the reasons are due to not being healthy. (Coping mechanisms, eating too much, eating too much high calorie food, being lazy, not being active etc)
If "eating too much" means you aren't healthy, then sure, but that's not a normal definition of what healthy means. People can be healthy and indulge in non-healthy behaviors. One can be healthy (as in their physical condition, test results, absence of illness and medical problems) and fail to wear a seat belt, for example.It seems as though eating too much is a result of UNHEALTHY coping mechanisms or circumstances, thus leading to obesity.
Eating too much will lead to obesity no matter why you overeat, and it's simply not accurate to claim that people only overeat as a result of being already unhealthy. Environment matters and for many people in the current environment one will have to take affirmative steps to avoid overeating.No one comments "I got obese by eating a healthy diet and I didn't have any unhealthy mental issues".
Lots of people get obese (let alone overweight) by eating a diet that is generally healthy but for the overall calories and without any unhealthy mental issues (and I would also dispute whether having some bad coping mechanisms makes you "unhealthy," especially since we are talking about physical health). It's easy and common to overeat a little over the course of a year (or gain some weight during pregnancies) and not really pay that much attention or put off dealing with it because you are focused on other things and then end up at age 40+ being within the obese category.
But in order to get obese you have to eat considerably over your maintenance for a long period of time.
No, you don't. You have to eat slightly over your maintenance for a long period of time. I'm 5'3. The top of the healthy weight range is around 140 lbs, and I'd argue that although I don't look my best (IMO) that being 150 and active isn't actually unhealthy. Obese is 170. It's not that hard to gain 30-40 lbs (even 50 lbs) over a period of years.
Gaining 30-50 pounds over a long period of time is just a case of not giving a *kitten* IMO. There are a lot if telltale signs of weight gain to that extent like clothes not fitting right that are a signal to do something about it.
The problem with this probably can't be addressed in a couple of paragraphs, but taking into account that even a broken clock...you know the saying...
You're judging a person's heart, mind and emotions by their outward appearance. That tanks your credibility. I can say that because you sound exactly like my dad, who in spite of being a wealth of dietary information died a miserable and painful death, partly due to his gross obesity.
I know nothing I say will change your mind or views, so I wouldn't try, but I will say that I hope you never find yourself in a place where you're being judged and put down for no good, productive reason.
Then again, I guess it's easier to judge than it is to actually get to know someone and offer support. Ain't nobody got time for that 👍10
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