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why do people think you can be healthy at every size?
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Yeah, well, if you define ‘a healthy diet’ as ‘no more than you need’ then by definition nobody is going to get fat eating one!
What that has to do with whether overweight people can actually be healthy is entiely beyond me, though.3 -
I know it’s an old saying but true non the less. Your body is your car. If you maintenance it, exercise It,and give it the right fuel it will take you wherever you want to go. Or, you can put the wrong fuel in, never drive it or maintenance it and just let it fall apart. The difference is with your body you only get one. You can live a healthy life, be active with your kids, or grandchildren depending on your age, or just watch and wish. Personally I don’t want to be the parent or grandparent that only sits on the side lines and watches. I want to be active with them and feel good about my self.1
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Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »
The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.
But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]7 -
Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »If you look at the "why did I gain weight" thread, 99 percent of the reasons are due to not being healthy. (Coping mechanisms, eating too much, eating too much high calorie food, being lazy, not being active etc)
If "eating too much" means you aren't healthy, then sure, but that's not a normal definition of what healthy means. People can be healthy and indulge in non-healthy behaviors. One can be healthy (as in their physical condition, test results, absence of illness and medical problems) and fail to wear a seat belt, for example.It seems as though eating too much is a result of UNHEALTHY coping mechanisms or circumstances, thus leading to obesity.
Eating too much will lead to obesity no matter why you overeat, and it's simply not accurate to claim that people only overeat as a result of being already unhealthy. Environment matters and for many people in the current environment one will have to take affirmative steps to avoid overeating.No one comments "I got obese by eating a healthy diet and I didn't have any unhealthy mental issues".
Lots of people get obese (let alone overweight) by eating a diet that is generally healthy but for the overall calories and without any unhealthy mental issues (and I would also dispute whether having some bad coping mechanisms makes you "unhealthy," especially since we are talking about physical health). It's easy and common to overeat a little over the course of a year (or gain some weight during pregnancies) and not really pay that much attention or put off dealing with it because you are focused on other things and then end up at age 40+ being within the obese category.
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Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »If you look at the "why did I gain weight" thread, 99 percent of the reasons are due to not being healthy. (Coping mechanisms, eating too much, eating too much high calorie food, being lazy, not being active etc)
If "eating too much" means you aren't healthy, then sure, but that's not a normal definition of what healthy means. People can be healthy and indulge in non-healthy behaviors. One can be healthy (as in their physical condition, test results, absence of illness and medical problems) and fail to wear a seat belt, for example.It seems as though eating too much is a result of UNHEALTHY coping mechanisms or circumstances, thus leading to obesity.
Eating too much will lead to obesity no matter why you overeat, and it's simply not accurate to claim that people only overeat as a result of being already unhealthy. Environment matters and for many people in the current environment one will have to take affirmative steps to avoid overeating.No one comments "I got obese by eating a healthy diet and I didn't have any unhealthy mental issues".
Lots of people get obese (let alone overweight) by eating a diet that is generally healthy but for the overall calories and without any unhealthy mental issues (and I would also dispute whether having some bad coping mechanisms makes you "unhealthy," especially since we are talking about physical health). It's easy and common to overeat a little over the course of a year (or gain some weight during pregnancies) and not really pay that much attention or put off dealing with it because you are focused on other things and then end up at age 40+ being within the obese category.
But in order to get obese you have to eat considerably over your maintenance for a long period of time.
No, you don't. You have to eat slightly over your maintenance for a long period of time. I'm 5'3. The top of the healthy weight range is around 140 lbs, and I'd argue that although I don't look my best (IMO) that being 150 and active isn't actually unhealthy. Obese is 170. It's not that hard to gain 30-40 lbs (even 50 lbs) over a period of years.
In my early 20s I was around 125. I was naturally active (had to walk a lot, ran and biked), and in an environment (law school) where it was easy to just eat 2-3 meals a day, and I did not snack otherwise, as food just wasn't around unless I made or bought it. We'd go out to eat sometimes on the weekends, but what I was doing fit with my maintenance calories.
Between age 24 and my early 30s, I had a stressful job where if you stayed past 8 (which I always did) you could order dinner on the firm (restaurant meals, so high cal, but the type of restaurant meals where you get vegetables and protein -- salmon kebobs with rice and veg and feta was a favorite). There were also lots of events with food around -- the joke was that if you aren't paying there are no calories. Biggest thing is that although I still walked a good amount (I live in a big city and take public transportation and walk for most errands), I was stressed and felt like I did not have time to exercise. I'd do it sporatically -- run regularly for a while and stop. Biking in a big city scared me, so I stopped biking (I now bike again).
I gained the weight gradually enough that I didn't really realize I'd gained that much until I saw myself in someone else's wedding photos and was really upset. But even then -- since I'd never had to diet before, and always thought I could just eat what I want and not gain (and not be as thin as my ideal, but seemed a decent trade off), I had no idea what to do and felt out of control about it. So I put off dealing with it.
Finally I decided enough was enough and decided to take control of my weight as I had with other things in my life and lost the weight, but I managed to become 180 without it taking any effort at all, and without having to eat lots of sweets or fast food or what not, and without eating massive meals. Was my lifestyle less healthy than it could have been? Absolutely, but the idea that I only gained because I was mentally or physically unhealthy already is just wrong. (My medical test results were good and ability to run a 10K or what not was probably better than many who are normal weight too, but I certainly agreed that being obese is a risk and likely to cause more problems over time, which I've always said (although vanity was more significant to me wanting to lose weight then, and I think that's fine too).)You don’t become obese with a generally healthy diet with occasional indulgences. You have to considerably overeat which is hard to do day in day out unless you have unhealthy reasons to do so such as mental and coping problems, etc.
It's just not that hard for most people to regularly overeat (I'd argue we are genetically programmed in many cases to want to eat if tasty food is around, so it's important to be aware of that and lean to combat it, not to pretend that a healthy person just won't want to eat above their calories for maintenance). A smaller portion of the population seems to find it hard to overeat no matter what environment, no matter how high cal the foods around (and you can have nutrient dense but high cal foods quite easily).
Even now I find that I have to avoid snacking and eat only at meals (and be mindful about how many calories are in the meals in a general way), or else it's really easy to go over calories, even if my diet is quite nutrient dense, has plenty of fiber and protein, etc.
What's the point of claiming that there must be something wrong with people who find it easy to gain weight, or that they must not be concerned with nutrition, etc., or eating tons of junk food?
My example is something of an extreme one, too. What I think is even more common is people gaining 2-3 lbs a year (maybe more from pregnancy weight not lost) over a period of 20 years or so, and realizing in their 40s or 50s that they are obese.12 -
Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »
The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.
But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]
I still fail to see how anyone could be obese and healthy. You simply cannot become obese following a healthy lifestyle. (Which includes a healthy and educated perception of how much one should eat, exercise, and not eating as a coping mechanism, all unhealthy behaviors)
Body builders sometimes struggle when they have to bulk for months because it’s HARD to eat enough to put on so much weight if you are exercising and eating a balanced diet long term. It’s easy to gain a few lbs over indulging, but not the amount to become obese.
I don’t know any obese people who exercise and eat right. I thought I did, but after living with two I realized both had a secret binging problem.
Actually, I know a few people who had generally healthy habits that ended up overweight or even obese. That usually accompanied a change in habits (new jobs, having kids, etc) that meant they were not as active as they had been but hadn't adjusted their eating habits to match and gained weight over time (1-2 years, so they probably gained at about a rate of .5 lb per week on average). They weren't binging, just eating day-to-day according to the habits they had when they were significantly more active.
Obviously, if a person has progressed to the higher risk obesity classes (35+ BMI) it's probable that there are co-existing psychological or behavioral issues that need to be addressed. It's a bad assumption that this is always the case for people who the overweight or low-risk obesity classes, however.
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Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »
The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.
But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]
I still fail to see how anyone could be obese and healthy.
You are misstating the claim. What OP said is that a healthy person is incapable of becoming obese, that it requires that one already have a health problem in order to become obese.
As for whether one can be obese and be healthy, it depends on how we define healthy. Obesity is a risk factor. To minimize the change of developing a health problem, it is something that should be changed (along with other risk factors, like eating a bad diet, not exercising, lack of sleep, stress, drinking to excess, smoking). The idea of healthier at any size (in a good way -- I have big issues with what HAES has become) is that even obese people can improve their risk factors (even if for them weight loss has led to unhealthy things like restricting and bingeing or rapid loss and regain). It says you focus on the risk factors that you feel like you can control -- improve the diet, become more active.
I would personally separate being currently unhealthy (having bad test results or a medical condition) from having risk factors that ideally should be reduced. Saying someone may currently be healthy yet obese does not mean it's not a risk factor that can be avoided and that it's not better to lose weight, but one does not automatically suffer from poor health as soon as one hits 30 BMI.
26 BMI is not much of a risk factor, and that's the number I mentioned.You simply cannot become obese following a healthy lifestyle.
If you define as "a healthy lifestyle" never overeating or not eating even a little over one's maintenance for a period of years, I suppose, but that's a circular argument and so not very interesting.
I don't think most people equate "being healthy" and "always living a healthy lifestyle in all ways" and usually when people are claimed to not eat a healthy diet, they mean nutrient poor or too high in sugar and unhealthy fats or some such. Or bingeing behaviors, perhaps. Not merely eating enough to gain 2-5 lbs per year, and it's easy to become obese doing that, over time.
I think most people don't find it that hard to overeat some when food is available, and most probably don't have a good natural sense of how much they are eating vs. their maintenance requirements without some reason to start focusing on this and learn.2 -
Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »If you look at the "why did I gain weight" thread, 99 percent of the reasons are due to not being healthy. (Coping mechanisms, eating too much, eating too much high calorie food, being lazy, not being active etc)
I still would not classify eating too much as being "healthy" regardless of what the diet is made up of. It seems as though eating too much is a result of UNHEALTHY coping mechanisms or circumstances, thus leading to obesity.
No one comments "I got obese by eating a healthy diet and I didn't have any unhealthy mental issues". And I have not seen one person get morbidly obese while eating a healthy diet (not grossly more than they need), exercising, and without mental issues.
I sense this might just be a tautological claim. If mental issues that are the level that is unhealthy is so broadly defined as "I may have eaten food at some point to be happier" than I'm not sure there exists healthy people. If everyone is unhealthy, then of course, all overweight people are unhealthy too.10 -
Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »
The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.
But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]
I still fail to see how anyone could be obese and healthy. You simply cannot become obese following a healthy lifestyle. (Which includes a healthy and educated perception of how much one should eat, exercise, and not eating as a coping mechanism, all unhealthy behaviors)
Body builders sometimes struggle when they have to bulk for months because it’s HARD to eat enough to put on so much weight if you are exercising and eating a balanced diet long term. It’s easy to gain a few lbs over indulging, but not the amount to become obese.
I don’t know any obese people who exercise and eat right. I thought I did, but after living with two I realized both had a secret binging problem.
Actually, I know a few people who had generally healthy habits that ended up overweight ...
This is me. I was never obese, about 20lbs or so overweight and while I have gotten more active in recent months, the primary difference is that I eat less now. I worked out several times a week, active on the job etc. I just had seconds every dinner and wasn't mindful of snacking throughout the day at all. It added up and snuck up.0 -
Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »
The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.
But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]
I still fail to see how anyone could be obese and healthy.
You are misstating the claim. What OP said is that a healthy person is incapable of becoming obese, that it requires that one already have a health problem in order to become obese.
As for whether one can be obese and be healthy, it depends on how we define healthy. Obesity is a risk factor. To minimize the change of developing a health problem, it is something that should be changed (along with other risk factors, like eating a bad diet, not exercising, lack of sleep, stress, drinking to excess, smoking). The idea of healthier at any size (in a good way -- I have big issues with what HAES has become) is that even obese people can improve their risk factors (even if for them weight loss has led to unhealthy things like restricting and bingeing or rapid loss and regain). It says you focus on the risk factors that you feel like you can control -- improve the diet, become more active.
I would personally separate being currently unhealthy (having bad test results or a medical condition) from having risk factors that ideally should be reduced. Saying someone may currently be healthy yet obese does not mean it's not a risk factor that can be avoided and that it's not better to lose weight, but one does not automatically suffer from poor health as soon as one hits 30 BMI.
26 BMI is not much of a risk factor, and that's the number I mentioned.You simply cannot become obese following a healthy lifestyle.
If you define as "a healthy lifestyle" never overeating or not eating even a little over one's maintenance for a period of years, I suppose, but that's a circular argument and so not very interesting.
I don't think most people equate "being healthy" and "always living a healthy lifestyle in all ways" and usually when people are claimed to not eat a healthy diet, they mean nutrient poor or too high in sugar and unhealthy fats or some such. Or bingeing behaviors, perhaps. Not merely eating enough to gain 2-5 lbs per year, and it's easy to become obese doing that, over time.
I think most people don't find it that hard to overeat some when food is available, and most probably don't have a good natural sense of how much they are eating vs. their maintenance requirements without some reason to start focusing on this and learn.
Very good points, I completely understand where you are coming from and your words have changed my thoughts on the matter.Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »
The more bizarre claim that OP made is that you can't become obese if you are healthy.
But obviously someone BMI 26 (which is overweight) can be healthy. [Note: I see later you referenced obese only, but the initial post I was responding too said overweight.]
I still fail to see how anyone could be obese and healthy. You simply cannot become obese following a healthy lifestyle. (Which includes a healthy and educated perception of how much one should eat, exercise, and not eating as a coping mechanism, all unhealthy behaviors)
Body builders sometimes struggle when they have to bulk for months because it’s HARD to eat enough to put on so much weight if you are exercising and eating a balanced diet long term. It’s easy to gain a few lbs over indulging, but not the amount to become obese.
I don’t know any obese people who exercise and eat right. I thought I did, but after living with two I realized both had a secret binging problem.
Actually, I know a few people who had generally healthy habits that ended up overweight ...
This is me. I was never obese, about 20lbs or so overweight and while I have gotten more active in recent months, the primary difference is that I eat less now. I worked out several times a week, active on the job etc. I just had seconds every dinner and wasn't mindful of snacking throughout the day at all. It added up and snuck up.
I definitely was not talking about this. I have always known small lifestyle changes like this could cause someone to be overweight. I was more talking about obese/morbidly obese. But I guess if you do nothing about it for years you would get morbidly obese. (Even with a higher BMR counteracting it)
I really think I would have gotten there if I didn't get a wake up call. It still bugs me that I let it get that far lol.4 -
I originally got obese because I was always hungry.
Is feeling unbearable hunger pangs when bored an illness?4 -
Just as a hypothetical thought experiment, I decided to run the numbers for an 'average' (5'9") 30 year old male in Scooby's calculator. If he's at a median healthy BMI (22), his weight is 150 and his TDEE at a moderate (3-5 hrs/wk) level is 2592. Supposing his activity drops to 1-3 hrs/wk, his TDEE will drop to 2300.
With that 292 cal/day difference, if his intake stays the same he'll gain slightly faster than .5 lb/wk until his weight reaches the point his maintenance matches his intake, which I estimated at about 185 lbs or a bit over 27 BMI (median overweight range). He'll reach that point in a bit under 70 weeks.
It's easy to factor in portion creep or eating out more to allow for that push him into the obese category, which again does not require any disordered or otherwise unhealthy behaviors or conditions to be present. Just following habit and not deliberately changing their intake to match their activity.
Ideally, should a person be mindful they've put on weight and course correct? Absolutely! But people often have other priorities going on in their lives and coast on their habits until they get a jarring reminder that things have changed over time. Our mental self-image often doesn't let us see those changes in the mirror unless we take measurements or weigh ourselves to do that assessment.
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