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why do people think you can be healthy at every size?
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Stephen Blair did some research on this topic years ago (probably 20-25, cause that’s how old I am). Basically, he analyzed tons of lifestyle studies and isolated fitness level as an indendent factor. His results showed that, if fitness levels were high, overweight people were at no higher risk than “normal” weight people.
His research suggested that the negative outcomes associated with being overweight were largely due to the associated behaviors that many overweight people followed, rather than the weight itself. It was interesting stuff. My biggest take away was, when working with overweight/obese clients, focus on finding comfortable ways for them to move and increase their fitness levels. Losing weight is hard, but improving fitness is relatively straightforward.11 -
Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »But in order to get significantly overweight, it would be hard to eat right and be active enough. Most people do not get overweight by eating right and exercising regularly.
If by "right," you mean eating the appropriate number of calories for your activity level, then you're right. But you can eat a healthful diet that simply has too many calories and you'll still gain weight. Being overweight doesn't mean one is eating the "wrong" things.8 -
and I'm kind of thinking the new trending saying is "beautiful at every size "5
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They don't. This is an attempt to speak power to truth.
Facta non verba. Reality always wins.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »But in order to get significantly overweight, it would be hard to eat right and be active enough. Most people do not get overweight by eating right and exercising regularly.
If by "right," you mean eating the appropriate number of calories for your activity level, then you're right. But you can eat a healthful diet that simply has too many calories and you'll still gain weight. Being overweight doesn't mean one is eating the "wrong" things.
And, just for completeness: Eating the "wrong" things won't necessarily make you fat.
Example: My great nephew, a young man in his mid 20s, has literally the worst diet I've ever seen in an adult (who didn't have a medical reason to eat in a super-limited way). He eats the following: White spaghetti with shaker-can parmesan, cheese pizza, cheese bread, chocolate chip cookies, some other chocolates, I think some salty simple snack foods (chip type stuff) and maybe french fries, I think will drink pop . . . and I believe that's it (for sure, it's close). Really. No veggies (other than tomato sauce on pizza). No fruit. No meat.
He's very slim, but I suspect not technically underweight (has to be close). He has a physical job, and a good energy level (I have no idea how), and so far seems healthy (I'm not expecting long-term good results).
He's eaten like this since he was tiny. One Thanksgiving when he was middle-school age, his grandparents said they'd buy him the latest super-duper game console if he'd eat one bite of turkey. He couldn't do it. At holiday dinners with the family, he makes his own white spaghetti with parmesan shaker cheese, while the rest of us eat food.
Healthy at every size? Hmmmm . . . . size isn't the whole story, either.16 -
trulyhealy wrote: »that can’t really be true if you’re fat/obese/underweight bc being bc if you were healthy you wouldn’t get fat
Hmmm, let's see. When I weighed 160 pounds, I couldn't run a mile. I couldn't lift anything over 50 pounds. I was pre-diabetic. I had high blood pressure. I had chronic migraines. I now hover in the 195-205 range and I can run 6 miles and increasing. My blood pressure is the lowest it has been in 20 years. I am no longer pre-diabetic. I can lift heavier weights than many men my age. If you look at any health chart, I straddle the borderline of the fat/obese categories, yet I am healthier than I was when I was when I wasn't in the fat/obese category. So, yes, one can be considered obese AND be healthy.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »But in order to get significantly overweight, it would be hard to eat right and be active enough. Most people do not get overweight by eating right and exercising regularly.
If by "right," you mean eating the appropriate number of calories for your activity level, then you're right. But you can eat a healthful diet that simply has too many calories and you'll still gain weight. Being overweight doesn't mean one is eating the "wrong" things.
And, just for completeness: Eating the "wrong" things won't necessarily make you fat.
Example: My great nephew, a young man in his mid 20s, has literally the worst diet I've ever seen in an adult (who didn't have a medical reason to eat in a super-limited way). He eats the following: White spaghetti with shaker-can parmesan, cheese pizza, cheese bread, chocolate chip cookies, some other chocolates, I think some salty simple snack foods (chip type stuff) and maybe french fries, I think will drink pop . . . and I believe that's it (for sure, it's close). Really. No veggies (other than tomato sauce on pizza). No fruit. No meat.
He's very slim, but I suspect not technically underweight (has to be close). He has a physical job, and a good energy level (I have no idea how), and so far seems healthy (I'm not expecting long-term good results).
He's eaten like this since he was tiny. One Thanksgiving when he was middle-school age, his grandparents said they'd buy him the latest super-duper game console if he'd eat one bite of turkey. He couldn't do it. At holiday dinners with the family, he makes his own white spaghetti with parmesan shaker cheese, while the rest of us eat food.
Healthy at every size? Hmmmm . . . . size isn't the whole story, either.
I wish there was a sad button. Not in a judgmental way, but in a, "it sucks that someone's diet is so exceedingly limited for no apparent physiological reason" way and that it's been that way for more or less their entire life.1 -
SusieBanyon wrote: »You can gain weight on an entirely healthy diet (fruits, vegetables, lean proteins, whole grains, etc.; which is easy to do, most grains are 600 calories per dry cup, most proteins and fruits will cost you too, along with starchy vegetables) - it is a matter of consuming too much. That being said, at 5'4, if I weighed 146 pounds, I would be overweight according to BMI calculators (http://www.height-weight-chart.com/504-140.html). That is not a very heavy weight or even out of the ordinary for my size, nor would it be a necessary health hazard. Therefore, being overweight at my size =/= unhealthy. Being 175 pounds at my weight would make me obese.
http://www.height-weight-chart.com/504-170.html
Those are "obese" men and women. They do not look to be in a danger zone health wise based solely on weight.
ETA Link to 140-145lb range referenced.
"Looking" has little to do with health, in a lot of cases. When I looked like people in those photos, my blood pressure was high, as were my cholesterol and triglycerides. (I was just over the line into obese, 5'5", 183lbs, BMI 30.4, and I was athletically active). I even looked about as healthy as most of those people when I had cancer**. . . until chemotherapy started, all my hair fell out, and I got all pale and stuff.
I think we've collectively become accustomed to looking at people who are technically obese, and thinking of them as "normal". But it's the (technically) obese BMI that tends to correlate with health issues, not the "looking". Everyone needs to make their own choices about weight, based on their own circumstances . . . but it's good to be clear-eyed about it, I think.
** Breast cancer, which is more likely to happen to obese people, at age 45.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »But in order to get significantly overweight, it would be hard to eat right and be active enough. Most people do not get overweight by eating right and exercising regularly.
If by "right," you mean eating the appropriate number of calories for your activity level, then you're right. But you can eat a healthful diet that simply has too many calories and you'll still gain weight. Being overweight doesn't mean one is eating the "wrong" things.
And, just for completeness: Eating the "wrong" things won't necessarily make you fat.
Example: My great nephew, a young man in his mid 20s, has literally the worst diet I've ever seen in an adult (who didn't have a medical reason to eat in a super-limited way). He eats the following: White spaghetti with shaker-can parmesan, cheese pizza, cheese bread, chocolate chip cookies, some other chocolates, I think some salty simple snack foods (chip type stuff) and maybe french fries, I think will drink pop . . . and I believe that's it (for sure, it's close). Really. No veggies (other than tomato sauce on pizza). No fruit. No meat.
He's very slim, but I suspect not technically underweight (has to be close). He has a physical job, and a good energy level (I have no idea how), and so far seems healthy (I'm not expecting long-term good results).
He's eaten like this since he was tiny. One Thanksgiving when he was middle-school age, his grandparents said they'd buy him the latest super-duper game console if he'd eat one bite of turkey. He couldn't do it. At holiday dinners with the family, he makes his own white spaghetti with parmesan shaker cheese, while the rest of us eat food.
Healthy at every size? Hmmmm . . . . size isn't the whole story, either.
I wish there was a sad button. Not in a judgmental way, but in a, "it sucks that someone's diet is so exceedingly limited for no apparent physiological reason" way and that it's been that way for more or less their entire life.
With a diet that limited and such an aversion to trying a relatively normal and non-offensive food (turkey), it sounds like a potential case of ARFID (avoidant/restrictive food intake disorder). It's like an ED, but instead of restricting calories people will restrict to a small group of "safe" foods.1 -
it's unhealthy to be obese10
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »But in order to get significantly overweight, it would be hard to eat right and be active enough. Most people do not get overweight by eating right and exercising regularly.
If by "right," you mean eating the appropriate number of calories for your activity level, then you're right. But you can eat a healthful diet that simply has too many calories and you'll still gain weight. Being overweight doesn't mean one is eating the "wrong" things.
And, just for completeness: Eating the "wrong" things won't necessarily make you fat.
Example: My great nephew, a young man in his mid 20s, has literally the worst diet I've ever seen in an adult (who didn't have a medical reason to eat in a super-limited way). He eats the following: White spaghetti with shaker-can parmesan, cheese pizza, cheese bread, chocolate chip cookies, some other chocolates, I think some salty simple snack foods (chip type stuff) and maybe french fries, I think will drink pop . . . and I believe that's it (for sure, it's close). Really. No veggies (other than tomato sauce on pizza). No fruit. No meat.
He's very slim, but I suspect not technically underweight (has to be close). He has a physical job, and a good energy level (I have no idea how), and so far seems healthy (I'm not expecting long-term good results).
He's eaten like this since he was tiny. One Thanksgiving when he was middle-school age, his grandparents said they'd buy him the latest super-duper game console if he'd eat one bite of turkey. He couldn't do it. At holiday dinners with the family, he makes his own white spaghetti with parmesan shaker cheese, while the rest of us eat food.
Healthy at every size? Hmmmm . . . . size isn't the whole story, either.
I wish there was a sad button. Not in a judgmental way, but in a, "it sucks that someone's diet is so exceedingly limited for no apparent physiological reason" way and that it's been that way for more or less their entire life.
With a diet that limited and such an aversion to trying a relatively normal and non-offensive food (turkey), it sounds like a potential case of ARFID (avoidant/restrictive food intake disorder). It's like an ED, but instead of restricting calories people will restrict to a small group of "safe" foods.
That's more or less what I was thinking as well actually, assuming there isn't any underlying physiological reason why he has restricted his diet so severely.0 -
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MHarper522 wrote: »I think the "Healthy at every size" got twisted around to be interpreted by people as "every size can be healthy", when it was originally meant to express that you should strive to be healthy regardless of your size. That weight should not be the goal, health should.
The first time I heard the expression it was “Health at any size” and it was used in the context of overweight people being refused medical treatments. It was a campaign to stop fat folks being discriminated against.
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I think when you are under middle age or so and are obese and your biometrics are healthy you got that going for you but eventually you will have problems. Once you start to age and that weight stays on and you may gain more if a women (menopause) comes the problem. Eventually, your knees and hips go. Ambulatory and agility start to become more difficult. Your body chemistry starts to change due to build up of all kinds of toxins (visceral fat, insulin, environmental;) your system can only handle so much. So I feel in your younger years and you are healthy it's a good time to manage your weight. You can only manage so much when you get older. Aging brings a new set of stressors and we all know what cortisol can do! Twas a big wake-up call for me! The gyms have those biometric scales that they use in combination with your body measurements to tell your body fat %.9
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trulyhealy wrote: »that can’t really be true if you’re fat/obese/underweight bc being bc if you were healthy you wouldn’t get fat
You don't get fat because you are unhealthy. Being too fat is a risk factor and bad for your health, however.
IMO, the positive meaning of health (not healthy) at any size is that you can do things that improve your health risk factors even if you are feeling defeatist about losing weight or not in the head space to do it yet, like eating a more nutritious diet and being more active (also, if applicable, quitting smoking, quitting drinking to excess, otherwise changing your life for the better).
Yes that was my understanding too.
And that makes sense - whether you are overweight or not, join yoga, exercise classes, quit smoking etc etc and improve your health without neccesarily focusing on your weight.
Rather than thinking I'm overweight and losing weight is too hard so it's not worth doing anything else either.
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SusieBanyon wrote: »SusieBanyon wrote: »You can gain weight on an entirely healthy diet (fruits, vegetables, lean proteins, whole grains, etc.; which is easy to do, most grains are 600 calories per dry cup, most proteins and fruits will cost you too, along with starchy vegetables) - it is a matter of consuming too much. That being said, at 5'4, if I weighed 146 pounds, I would be overweight according to BMI calculators (http://www.height-weight-chart.com/504-140.html). That is not a very heavy weight or even out of the ordinary for my size, nor would it be a necessary health hazard. Therefore, being overweight at my size =/= unhealthy. Being 175 pounds at my weight would make me obese.
http://www.height-weight-chart.com/504-170.html
Those are "obese" men and women. They do not look to be in a danger zone health wise based solely on weight.
ETA Link to 140-145lb range referenced.
"Looking" has little to do with health, in a lot of cases. When I looked like people in those photos, my blood pressure was high, as were my cholesterol and triglycerides. (I was just over the line into obese, 5'5", 183lbs, BMI 30.4, and I was athletically active). I even looked about as healthy as most of those people when I had cancer**. . . until chemotherapy started, all my hair fell out, and I got all pale and stuff.
I think we've collectively become accustomed to looking at people who are technically obese, and thinking of them as "normal". But it's the (technically) obese BMI that tends to correlate with health issues, not the "looking". Everyone needs to make their own choices about weight, based on their own circumstances . . . but it's good to be clear-eyed about it, I think.
** Breast cancer, which is more likely to happen to obese people, at age 45.
That is all well and true; but the original question was why do people think you CAN BE healthy at every "size." I think a lot of people do not have a realistic perspective of what overweight/obese weights actually are/look like. Those men and women are not so massive that they are falling apart (My 600lb Life), their skin isn't bad, their hair, their eyes; they generally LOOK healthy, and probably are. Because, again, you CAN BE healthy at an overweight/obese weight, depending on what you are putting into your body and how you take care of yourself. That does not mean that MOST are healthy, because MOST probably aren't (at any weight, unfortunately). I myself am 5'4, 120lbs; which is essentially ideal; but I suffer from hypoglycemia amongst other things. I'd bet my bottom dollar that some of the men/women in those photos, who are considered overweight, feel better than I do & weight-aside could be considered in better over-all health than myself*IF* their diets aren't necessarily filled with alcohol and food like your (cousin, I think?) eats on a consistent/every day basis. Then again, your description of him sounds healthy enough. So, it's really all a matter of personal circumstance, nutrition, genetics, and so on; not always, "you are fat, therefore you are sick." Nor is it, "you are an ideal weight, therefore you are healthy."
Health cannot be summarized by a scale; or, boy, would life be easier and the medical industry suffering.
I think this is the perfect point! I am currently overweight and not healthy. My eating isn’t on point and I’m not currently working out regularly. My tests will all come back fine, but my BMI is MORBIDLY OBESE. I’m 5’3 and weigh 220lbs. To be within a healthy BMI my “goal weight” should be closer to 130 but that will never be my goal weight. My goal weight is between 160-180 because that’s when I’ve felt my best.
I don’t believe you can truly be healthy at ANY size but I do believe you can love your body at any size if that makes sense6 -
trulyhealy wrote: »that can’t really be true if you’re fat/obese/underweight bc being bc if you were healthy you wouldn’t get fat
I think, firstly define healthy.
I see many things people eating unhealthy foods, I'd guess their insides are horrible but from the outside they look healthy.
Then what about the big guy who eats really healthy food, doesn't drink, rides 250km a week runs 90km a week and has a physical job.
Is he healthy?
If he is overweight due to quantity does this make him then unhealthy?
What is unhealthy?
I'd suggest 95% of the population are unhealthy to some degree.7 -
andysport1 wrote: »trulyhealy wrote: »that can’t really be true if you’re fat/obese/underweight bc being bc if you were healthy you wouldn’t get fat
I think, firstly define healthy.
I see many things people eating unhealthy foods, I'd guess their insides are horrible but from the outside they look healthy.
Then what about the big guy who eats really healthy food, doesn't drink, rides 250km a week runs 90km a week and has a physical job.
Is he healthy?
If he is overweight due to quantity does this make him then unhealthy?
What is unhealthy?
I'd suggest 95% of the population are unhealthy to some degree.
What is the basis for the claim that only 5% of the population is healthy? Is this global or based on the specific country you're in?1 -
It’s called denial and it’s an immature psychological defence mechanism. Let’s take a look at the objective data. Blood Pressure, Cholesterol etc...10
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That objective evidence said I was healthy when I was obese. I don't think being obese is healthy, as it's an unnecessary risk factor, but the idea that everyone overweight or obese has bad test results is wrong.
Anyway, once again it's the idea that one can do things to improve health/risk factors, whatever weight one is.7 -
i think there's a big difference between being a bmi of 26 and being a bmi of 45. same way i think there's a difference between being a bmi of 18 vs a bmi of 10. i think some people can fall outside the standard and live long and healthy lives being mildly overweight or underweight, but there are some unavoidable physiological reactions that happen when severely obese or underweight.
at the end of the day though someone else's body and health is between them and their doctor and i think it's better to mind my own business. for all i know that person with a BMI of 30 spent the last 10 years on a weight loss journey down from a BMI of 45, and just got congratulated by their doctor for their lowered cholesterol and blood pressure! or that person who looks a bit too thin is a recovering anorexic and is doing their best to attain a healthy mind and body in spite of their compulsions.
it's really none of my concern.10 -
i think there's a big difference between being a bmi of 26 and being a bmi of 45. same way i think there's a difference between being a bmi of 18 vs a bmi of 10.
Well, yes, obviously.
Surely nobody is disputing that.0 -
Oh boy, HAAS.
"Intentional weight loss is fatphobia!"
"Thin people need to understand that They. Are. Triggering, and practicing fatphobia just by existing!"
"Every where I go people glare at me, I hear whispering, random people in grocery stores snatch 'unhealthy' items out of my food cart, the cashier refused to ring up my Oreos and lectured me about health, then the manager spit in my face and asked me to leave!!! This all happened for real and I cried in my car for hours!"
"Being in a fat body is exactly like being in a black or gay body! If you are not attracted to my fat body you are a bigot!"
"Food has nothing to do with weight gain. Your body has a natural size it wants to be."
"The war on obesity is nothing less than an attempt at genociding fat body types!"
"I get so disgusted at the smallfats speaking of oppression as if they can't walk into any store and easily find a 4X that fits them!"
"The people who run studies on obesity, along with doctors? Have you noticed that they are often THIN? how can they say they're not biased?"
"Why give up 95% of the joy in your life just to try and fail to lose 5% of your body weight?"
*casually accusing all fit people of having eating disorders*
*claiming to be anorexic at 300 lbs and complaining about people glaring at you in public whenever you "can actually bring yourself to eat something for once"*
*repeatedly calling skinny girls sl*ts and posting made up stories about how sad and hungry they look while you lick KFC grease off your fingers in front of them in an elevator*
"Fat is beautiful and you DESERVE a fit and hot partner, you shouldn't have to settle for some gross disgusting slob just because you don't fit society's ideas of what an attractive woman looks like."
"My body doesn't burn calories."
.....jeez I WISH I was exaggerating but I've seen all this and far worse, including some absolutely blood-boiling incidents of these people dispensing false and dangerous medical advice to a teen worried about Type II diabetes in their family. I've tried to purge the influence of the HAAS community from my life but it just all comes rushing back, lol. Maybe for like five minutes after the term was invented it was about practicing healthy behaviors no matter where you were in your fitness journey but anywhere you look today, they're absolutely toxic and fueled by blame shifting, science denial and spite. I've heard them compared to incels, flat earthers and anti-vaxxers but really they're their own special thing that almost defies words.
At the Tumblr that's one of the big hubs for them, any attempt at reasonable debate would end with one of the mods screaming SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP and various obscenities in all caps and then blocking people.
e: One of the absolute mildest examples of the prevalent attitude behind HAAS I could find:
....yeah um, my body's innate and intuitive wisdom must not be calibrated right because just eating whatever and however much I wanted is what got me in the medically not so great place I am today.14 -
It's simply untrue that health and weight are not correlated, and that one can be "healthy at any size."
If you are morbidly obese due to excess adipose tissue, your morbid obesity is negatively impacting your health in a serious way. There's really no way around that. It's simply impossible to be that fat, and to still be "healthy."
Could one be overweight and healthy? Probably. BMI is a very crude tool, better at measuring populations than individuals. One could be overweight and fit because one has lower body fat and a high amount of lean mass. Or maybe they are carrying a little extra fat, the amount of fat that, statistically speaking, poses a health risk, except this particular individual is not suffering any ill health effects from it. And if you're a bodybuilder, you might be "obese" according to your BMI, but you may still be fit (although when t comes to some really, really big muscled folks, I'm not sure if enough research has been done to show that a certain amount of lean mass and the protein needed to sustain it also doesn't pose a health risk; I'm no expert, but my hunch is that the body isn't adapted to that sort of lifestyle, and some of these bodybuilders aren't all that healthy).
But just because BMI isn't exact doesn't mean that there isn't a size you can be, an amount of fat you can have, that is simply not healthy. Denying this, according to the evidence we've got, is tantamount to denying the link between cigarette smoking and ill health effects, or the link between carbon emissions and climate change. The only difference is that instead of this delusion being pushed for the financial gain of corporations, it's being pushed by well-meaning people who just don't want fat people to feel bad.
And I agree with their sentiments. Society shouldn't shame fat people. Fatphobia is one of the most accepted prejudices, and fat people are clearly discriminated against in society. Fat people are often bullied.
But treating fat people with dignity doesn't mean that we have to pretend that excess fat is still "healthy". We can treat the human with dignity without being scientific denialists. We can recognize that a large excess of fat is bad for you, but that people who have this large excess, even though they would benefit from working on this problem, are still worthy of respect and should still love themselves. Having any kind of issue, disorder, or flaw, doesn't necessarily make one unworthy of dignity.
Personally, I try to treat fat people with respect by not discriminating against them in contexts where their size shouldn't matter (like, okay, it may be justifiable if a fat person, on the basis of their physical condition, doesn't make the cut for being a firefighter, but for jobs where fat is no hindrance, selecting against them simply because of their appearance is discrimination), not giving them unsolicited health advice (fat people know they are fat; they don't need you to tell them. Their health isn't your business, unless they come to you for advice or you are close enough that you can reasonably expect to care for each other's health, such as in the case of partners), not teasing or bullying them, etc. Now, I can't claim to be perfect or a saint. I think we are all guilty of making the odd fat joke behind an acquaintance's back, or making fun of fat celebrities. But I am trying to be mindful of this behaviour and to correct it, because I don't want to be that kind of person.
But, all this can be done while still recognizing that a certain amount of fat on a human body is, in fact, not very good for that body.7 -
Curious if the last two posters read the rest of the discussion, since the comments did not seem really related to that discussion.7
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What is seen and perceived are two different things. My sister (may she rest in peace) was fit as a damn fiddle! Ate healthy, worked out daily, was thin and strong. She even owned her own health club at one point. She was never overweight not even slightly, not even when she was pregnant. She died of a fatty liver.14
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Not so, the old guy.
And this I do know, since working with patients blood test results is big part of my job.
Sure, the more obese you get and the older you get, the more likely you are to have glucose, cholesterol, high blood pressure
But this idea that somebody age over 60 and BMI of, say, 32 and no poor test results is a rarity - not true.6 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »That objective evidence said I was healthy when I was obese. I don't think being obese is healthy, as it's an unnecessary risk factor, but the idea that everyone overweight or obese has bad test results is wrong.
Anyway, once again it's the idea that one can do things to improve health/risk factors, whatever weight one is.
IMO, youth can cover up a bunch of health sins. Look at the over 60 or so population that is obese. I'm pretty sure you will find about as many good test results as snowcone vendors in Antarctica.
I wasn't that young (44), and I agree that it's a risk factor and likely to lead to problems as one ages, which is what I said. What I was rebutting was the claim that anyone fat must have bad test results automatically (the converse of which would be that if you don't have bad test results you must have not really been too fat -- I certainly was too fat).
I think some lose weight because they get bad test results and are told they need to reverse them, and good for them for doing that, but then often overgeneralize and assume such bad tests are automatic -- some of us realized we needed to lose and did so yet never had those bad results (although I think it's quite likely they would have developed later, and if not some other problem).
Some issues, like cholesterol, aren't uncommon among thinner people. My dad's always been fit and normal weight, yet is prone to bad cholesterol if he eats too much sat fat. That started in his 40s.1
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