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why do people think you can be healthy at every size?
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Brown fat prevails when you are fat but exercise a lot. Sumo wrestlers have brown fat.
Visceral fat forms around organs and is dangerous. So the type of fat you have matters.
I don't think brown fat amounts to much in humans, it generally strikes me as one of those "oooh, looks need in rodents - oops, not how primates work" kind of things.
As far as sumo wrestlers, even they show health markers impacted by being obese compared to overweight less active people.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9736054 -
Person seems to think fat won't form around organs if you exercise a lot, and unfortunately that is not true, genetics and how obese you are make a huge difference.3
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I think the "Healthy at every size" got twisted around to be interpreted by people as "every size can be healthy", when it was originally meant to express that you should strive to be healthy regardless of your size. That weight should not be the goal, health should.22
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Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »But in order to get significantly overweight, it would be hard to eat right and be active enough. Most people do not get overweight by eating right and exercising regularly.
People get fat by eating too much for how active they are. What specific foods they ate and how active they are or were varies a lot.
That aside, I suspect most people who are significantly overweight could improve their diet in some way and/or increase activity in a healthy way -- IMO, that's the whole point of focusing on being healthier in a way that isn't focused first on weight loss. I also personally suspect that weight loss will follow for most.
Some people who are obese -- and this wasn't me, but I'm still aware of it -- have long and frustrating experiences with trying to diet or losing and regaining, often based on self-hatred, diet as punishment (so overly restrictive and not sustainable), maybe binging in response. For them, dieting may feel hopeless and hard to do in a healthful way and really emotionally fraught, they may feel like it's jumping back into a place of self-hatred. So the idea of not just giving up, but focusing on ways to get healthier that feel more positive and do-able, like getting more active, adding some kind of exercise or lifting program, focusing on eating a healthful diet (getting in more veg, cutting back on low nutrient/high cal snack/dessert foods if they are being eaten to excess, also soda, maybe cooking more from whole foods -- depends on what the person is already doing) all seem positive,
I personally think that for many this will cause some weight loss without trying or build the mental tools so that losing weight also seems possible and like something that can be done in a positive healthful way.10 -
@lemurcat12 Agreed. I seem to remember various people reporting online that such a version of HAES philosophy motivated them into exercising for fitness, and making a few diet changes for health, and that saw them... losing weight, just as you describe. Without stress, self-hatred or the rest.
They were very positive about the difference between their new health-focused mindset and their previous weight-focused attempts.7 -
Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »But in order to get significantly overweight, it would be hard to eat right and be active enough. Most people do not get overweight by eating right and exercising regularly.
I ate predominantly healthy, but large amounts. I took long walks and felt that I'd "earned" treats with calorie values that far outstripped the burn from those walks. I've gotten thinner by still eating predominantly healthy, controlling my portions, and keeping track of what calories come in and go out and being more realistic about exercise burns.9 -
It was originally an inspiring movement that encouraged an increase in healthy behaviors no matter what your size. It was unfortunately co-opted by those that proclaimed that excessive body fat weight is in no way related to long term health effects, a decrease in average lifespan, or an increase in a vast number of disease risk factors. And then also claiming that a diet composed almost entirely of fast food is equal to a diet rich in nutrient dense, whole foods while claiming that doctors are fatphobic for recommending weight loss.
It was these people that destroyed the beneficial aspects of the movement and made it into something of a sad joke within internet communities. Damn squeaky wheels.6 -
Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »But in order to get significantly overweight, it would be hard to eat right and be active enough. Most people do not get overweight by eating right and exercising regularly.
Sigh. Maybe true for most people, but not universal: Too simplistic.
I'd been vegetarian for decades, eating all the nice whole grains, good veggies, legumes, etc. I got fat, then obese. I'd been very active for a dozen years, even competing as a masters athlete, while obese, before losing weight.
None of that getting/staying obese was hard. Being active, unless a serious distance/endurance athlete, is typically good for only a few hundred extra calories a day. It's easy to eat a few hundred extra calories a day . . . trust me.
Does "eating right" inherently mean "eating the right calorie level to maintain a healthy weight"? Does "being active enough" inherently mean much more than the standard "150 minutes a week of moderate CV exercise or 75 minutes of intense exercise, plus 2 days of strength training"? If no to those, then it's super easy to "eat right and be active enough" yet still get/stay fat or obese.
As an aside, I was not healthy when obese (bad health markers - BP, lipids), but I was much healthier than I would've been if I'd been less active (I had low resting heart rate, good cardiovascular endurance, good strength).
I agree that the positive spin of HAES is about working on health improvements across the spectrum, regardless of body size, and think that's worthwhile. When HAES becomes a way to deny that, for most people, reasonable body weight is relevant to health - whether one is choosing to prioritize that high for themselves at that moment or not - then that's an example of dysfunctional thinking.11 -
Stephen Blair did some research on this topic years ago (probably 20-25, cause that’s how old I am). Basically, he analyzed tons of lifestyle studies and isolated fitness level as an indendent factor. His results showed that, if fitness levels were high, overweight people were at no higher risk than “normal” weight people.
His research suggested that the negative outcomes associated with being overweight were largely due to the associated behaviors that many overweight people followed, rather than the weight itself. It was interesting stuff. My biggest take away was, when working with overweight/obese clients, focus on finding comfortable ways for them to move and increase their fitness levels. Losing weight is hard, but improving fitness is relatively straightforward.11 -
Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »But in order to get significantly overweight, it would be hard to eat right and be active enough. Most people do not get overweight by eating right and exercising regularly.
If by "right," you mean eating the appropriate number of calories for your activity level, then you're right. But you can eat a healthful diet that simply has too many calories and you'll still gain weight. Being overweight doesn't mean one is eating the "wrong" things.8 -
and I'm kind of thinking the new trending saying is "beautiful at every size "5
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They don't. This is an attempt to speak power to truth.
Facta non verba. Reality always wins.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »But in order to get significantly overweight, it would be hard to eat right and be active enough. Most people do not get overweight by eating right and exercising regularly.
If by "right," you mean eating the appropriate number of calories for your activity level, then you're right. But you can eat a healthful diet that simply has too many calories and you'll still gain weight. Being overweight doesn't mean one is eating the "wrong" things.
And, just for completeness: Eating the "wrong" things won't necessarily make you fat.
Example: My great nephew, a young man in his mid 20s, has literally the worst diet I've ever seen in an adult (who didn't have a medical reason to eat in a super-limited way). He eats the following: White spaghetti with shaker-can parmesan, cheese pizza, cheese bread, chocolate chip cookies, some other chocolates, I think some salty simple snack foods (chip type stuff) and maybe french fries, I think will drink pop . . . and I believe that's it (for sure, it's close). Really. No veggies (other than tomato sauce on pizza). No fruit. No meat.
He's very slim, but I suspect not technically underweight (has to be close). He has a physical job, and a good energy level (I have no idea how), and so far seems healthy (I'm not expecting long-term good results).
He's eaten like this since he was tiny. One Thanksgiving when he was middle-school age, his grandparents said they'd buy him the latest super-duper game console if he'd eat one bite of turkey. He couldn't do it. At holiday dinners with the family, he makes his own white spaghetti with parmesan shaker cheese, while the rest of us eat food.
Healthy at every size? Hmmmm . . . . size isn't the whole story, either.16 -
trulyhealy wrote: »that can’t really be true if you’re fat/obese/underweight bc being bc if you were healthy you wouldn’t get fat
Hmmm, let's see. When I weighed 160 pounds, I couldn't run a mile. I couldn't lift anything over 50 pounds. I was pre-diabetic. I had high blood pressure. I had chronic migraines. I now hover in the 195-205 range and I can run 6 miles and increasing. My blood pressure is the lowest it has been in 20 years. I am no longer pre-diabetic. I can lift heavier weights than many men my age. If you look at any health chart, I straddle the borderline of the fat/obese categories, yet I am healthier than I was when I was when I wasn't in the fat/obese category. So, yes, one can be considered obese AND be healthy.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »But in order to get significantly overweight, it would be hard to eat right and be active enough. Most people do not get overweight by eating right and exercising regularly.
If by "right," you mean eating the appropriate number of calories for your activity level, then you're right. But you can eat a healthful diet that simply has too many calories and you'll still gain weight. Being overweight doesn't mean one is eating the "wrong" things.
And, just for completeness: Eating the "wrong" things won't necessarily make you fat.
Example: My great nephew, a young man in his mid 20s, has literally the worst diet I've ever seen in an adult (who didn't have a medical reason to eat in a super-limited way). He eats the following: White spaghetti with shaker-can parmesan, cheese pizza, cheese bread, chocolate chip cookies, some other chocolates, I think some salty simple snack foods (chip type stuff) and maybe french fries, I think will drink pop . . . and I believe that's it (for sure, it's close). Really. No veggies (other than tomato sauce on pizza). No fruit. No meat.
He's very slim, but I suspect not technically underweight (has to be close). He has a physical job, and a good energy level (I have no idea how), and so far seems healthy (I'm not expecting long-term good results).
He's eaten like this since he was tiny. One Thanksgiving when he was middle-school age, his grandparents said they'd buy him the latest super-duper game console if he'd eat one bite of turkey. He couldn't do it. At holiday dinners with the family, he makes his own white spaghetti with parmesan shaker cheese, while the rest of us eat food.
Healthy at every size? Hmmmm . . . . size isn't the whole story, either.
I wish there was a sad button. Not in a judgmental way, but in a, "it sucks that someone's diet is so exceedingly limited for no apparent physiological reason" way and that it's been that way for more or less their entire life.1 -
SusieBanyon wrote: »You can gain weight on an entirely healthy diet (fruits, vegetables, lean proteins, whole grains, etc.; which is easy to do, most grains are 600 calories per dry cup, most proteins and fruits will cost you too, along with starchy vegetables) - it is a matter of consuming too much. That being said, at 5'4, if I weighed 146 pounds, I would be overweight according to BMI calculators (http://www.height-weight-chart.com/504-140.html). That is not a very heavy weight or even out of the ordinary for my size, nor would it be a necessary health hazard. Therefore, being overweight at my size =/= unhealthy. Being 175 pounds at my weight would make me obese.
http://www.height-weight-chart.com/504-170.html
Those are "obese" men and women. They do not look to be in a danger zone health wise based solely on weight.
ETA Link to 140-145lb range referenced.
"Looking" has little to do with health, in a lot of cases. When I looked like people in those photos, my blood pressure was high, as were my cholesterol and triglycerides. (I was just over the line into obese, 5'5", 183lbs, BMI 30.4, and I was athletically active). I even looked about as healthy as most of those people when I had cancer**. . . until chemotherapy started, all my hair fell out, and I got all pale and stuff.
I think we've collectively become accustomed to looking at people who are technically obese, and thinking of them as "normal". But it's the (technically) obese BMI that tends to correlate with health issues, not the "looking". Everyone needs to make their own choices about weight, based on their own circumstances . . . but it's good to be clear-eyed about it, I think.
** Breast cancer, which is more likely to happen to obese people, at age 45.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Mexicangreensalsa wrote: »But in order to get significantly overweight, it would be hard to eat right and be active enough. Most people do not get overweight by eating right and exercising regularly.
If by "right," you mean eating the appropriate number of calories for your activity level, then you're right. But you can eat a healthful diet that simply has too many calories and you'll still gain weight. Being overweight doesn't mean one is eating the "wrong" things.
And, just for completeness: Eating the "wrong" things won't necessarily make you fat.
Example: My great nephew, a young man in his mid 20s, has literally the worst diet I've ever seen in an adult (who didn't have a medical reason to eat in a super-limited way). He eats the following: White spaghetti with shaker-can parmesan, cheese pizza, cheese bread, chocolate chip cookies, some other chocolates, I think some salty simple snack foods (chip type stuff) and maybe french fries, I think will drink pop . . . and I believe that's it (for sure, it's close). Really. No veggies (other than tomato sauce on pizza). No fruit. No meat.
He's very slim, but I suspect not technically underweight (has to be close). He has a physical job, and a good energy level (I have no idea how), and so far seems healthy (I'm not expecting long-term good results).
He's eaten like this since he was tiny. One Thanksgiving when he was middle-school age, his grandparents said they'd buy him the latest super-duper game console if he'd eat one bite of turkey. He couldn't do it. At holiday dinners with the family, he makes his own white spaghetti with parmesan shaker cheese, while the rest of us eat food.
Healthy at every size? Hmmmm . . . . size isn't the whole story, either.
I wish there was a sad button. Not in a judgmental way, but in a, "it sucks that someone's diet is so exceedingly limited for no apparent physiological reason" way and that it's been that way for more or less their entire life.
With a diet that limited and such an aversion to trying a relatively normal and non-offensive food (turkey), it sounds like a potential case of ARFID (avoidant/restrictive food intake disorder). It's like an ED, but instead of restricting calories people will restrict to a small group of "safe" foods.1 -
it's unhealthy to be obese10
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