Carbs are bad. Yes or no?

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Replies

  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,282 Member
    Keto diet certainly isnt for me either.

    So, I suppose I like carbs too.

    But question seems a bit to me like BOOKS - Pages or writing? which are good? which do you like?

    Obviously you need both - just like you need carbs, protien, fat.

    It isnt a choose one scenario
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    chrishamilton894 wrote: »
    Carbs are great but in little doses. Gotta love rice, pasta and potatoes etc. The body needs carbs. Hate Keto diets

    Why little doses? Also, what is a little dose?
  • ryanmichaelhorn
    ryanmichaelhorn Posts: 13 Member
    There's no such thing as a bad macronutrient. You need them all, including carbohydrates, as the following papers have found:

    "Reduced-calorie diets result in clinically meaningful weight loss regardless of which macronutrients they emphasize."

    Sacks, F. M., Bray, G. A., Carey, V. J., Smith, S. R., Ryan, D. H., Anton, S. D., ... & Leboff, M. S. (2009). Comparison of weight-loss diets with different compositions of fat, protein, and carbohydrates. New England Journal of Medicine, 360(9), 859-873.

    "KLC and NLC diets were equally effective in reducing body weight and insulin resistance, but the KLC diet was associated with several adverse metabolic and emotional effects. The use of ketogenic diets for weight loss is not warranted."

    Johnston, C. S., Tjonn, S. L., Swan, P. D., White, A., Hutchins, H., & Sears, B. (2006). Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 83(5), 1055-1061.
  • ryanmichaelhorn
    ryanmichaelhorn Posts: 13 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    ryanmichaelhorn wrote: »
    There's no such thing as a bad macronutrient. You need them all, including carbohydrates, as the following papers have found:

    "Reduced-calorie diets result in clinically meaningful weight loss regardless of which macronutrients they emphasize."

    Sacks, F. M., Bray, G. A., Carey, V. J., Smith, S. R., Ryan, D. H., Anton, S. D., ... & Leboff, M. S. (2009). Comparison of weight-loss diets with different compositions of fat, protein, and carbohydrates. New England Journal of Medicine, 360(9), 859-873.

    "KLC and NLC diets were equally effective in reducing body weight and insulin resistance, but the KLC diet was associated with several adverse metabolic and emotional effects. The use of ketogenic diets for weight loss is not warranted."

    Johnston, C. S., Tjonn, S. L., Swan, P. D., White, A., Hutchins, H., & Sears, B. (2006). Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 83(5), 1055-1061.

    This is where it gets slippery. Technically we don't need carbs to survive. Then that get's turned into we don't need them at all. Do you want to survive or thrive...?

    Sugars, sure, but what about fiber derived from carbohydrates? Probably just a discussion about my original phrasing or our conversation centering completely around energy balance, but I would argue that cutting out 100% of carbohydrates would lead to insufficient nutrient intake resulting in a myriad of health problems.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    edited August 2019
    ryanmichaelhorn wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    ryanmichaelhorn wrote: »
    There's no such thing as a bad macronutrient. You need them all, including carbohydrates, as the following papers have found:

    "Reduced-calorie diets result in clinically meaningful weight loss regardless of which macronutrients they emphasize."

    Sacks, F. M., Bray, G. A., Carey, V. J., Smith, S. R., Ryan, D. H., Anton, S. D., ... & Leboff, M. S. (2009). Comparison of weight-loss diets with different compositions of fat, protein, and carbohydrates. New England Journal of Medicine, 360(9), 859-873.

    "KLC and NLC diets were equally effective in reducing body weight and insulin resistance, but the KLC diet was associated with several adverse metabolic and emotional effects. The use of ketogenic diets for weight loss is not warranted."

    Johnston, C. S., Tjonn, S. L., Swan, P. D., White, A., Hutchins, H., & Sears, B. (2006). Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 83(5), 1055-1061.

    This is where it gets slippery. Technically we don't need carbs to survive. Then that get's turned into we don't need them at all. Do you want to survive or thrive...?

    Sugars, sure, but what about fiber derived from carbohydrates? Probably just a discussion about my original phrasing or our conversation centering completely around energy balance, but I would argue that cutting out 100% of carbohydrates would lead to insufficient nutrient intake resulting in a myriad of health problems.

    I am not disagreeing with you. I am just saying this is what the "anit-carb" crowd like to say to defend their point of view. Yes it's technically true, but in the big picture IMO it is not a good idea long term. Of course it is important to point out that there will always be outliers that skew the thinking...
  • neugebauer52
    neugebauer52 Posts: 1,120 Member
    Carbs in one form or another have been around for millions of years, feeding just about everything on earth. How could carbs be "bad" overnight?
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    Leave off the carbs then what happens in the case of type 2 diabetes? :)

    ???
  • Gamliela
    Gamliela Posts: 2,468 Member
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    Gamliela wrote: »
    I think the people with the most significant longevity are somewhere in Japan eating a lot of sweet potatoes and a high high amount of carbohydrate. I haven't found the scientific evidence that points to a high fat, high protien diet as a good way to eat over a full lifetime. Nor is a very high carbohydrate diet been proven to be a good way to eat into older age.

    I don't think carbs are evil and I like them. I don't feel well when I over indulge in a high amount of carbohydrates combined with a lot of fat.

    I vary my food quite a lot. I like vegetables and fruit and basically a vegetarian way of eating, but a lot of my days are lowish in carbohydrates. I'm becoming way more attentive to how I feel and energy levels because I am quite active for my age and its important to me that what I eat works to give me a healthy, good feeling and plenty of energy with a good nights sleep.

    So many carbohydrate debates!


    Regarding the bold, couldn't that be said with anything edible at all though?

    Well, ya, you are correct! :)
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    Leave off the carbs then what happens in the case of type 2 diabetes? :)

    https://www.everydayhealth.com/type-2-diabetes/type-2-diabetes/can-thin-people-get-type-2-diabetes/

    Once again, nothing about leaving out the carbs, and that's even for the 10% of thin people who can become type 2 diabetic...

    Interesting how quiet it gets when this poster is actually asked for peer reviewed evidence for the questionable info they post.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    Leave off the carbs then what happens in the case of type 2 diabetes? :)

    https://www.everydayhealth.com/type-2-diabetes/type-2-diabetes/can-thin-people-get-type-2-diabetes/

    Once again, nothing about leaving out the carbs, and that's even for the 10% of thin people who can become type 2 diabetic...

    Interesting how quiet it gets when this poster is actually asked for peer reviewed evidence for the questionable info they post.

    Indeed...
  • LKArgh
    LKArgh Posts: 5,178 Member
    And a medical survey stating the opposite of "carbs cause diabetes": https://www.pcrm.org/news/blog/does-sugar-cause-diabetes
    "The roots of type 2 diabetes remain in insulin resistance and pancreatic failure, and the blame for the current diabetes epidemic lies in an overall dietary pattern emphasizing meat, dairy products, and fatty foods, aided and abetted by sugary foods and beverages, rather than simply in sugar alone. A diet emphasizing vegetables, fruits, whole grains, and legumes and avoiding animal products helps prevent diabetes and improves its management when it has been diagnosed.
    The idea that “eating sugar causes diabetes” is inaccurate. Nonetheless, avoiding added sugars is a helpful step, and it should be taken in addition to a healthful plant-based eating pattern, not instead of it. "
  • bmaw01
    bmaw01 Posts: 40 Member
    edited August 2019
    It's not the carbs per say. I taught in Thailand and South Korea. White rice is a staple there, and type 2 diabetes was never an issue. Now, with the emergence of fast food, cakes and cookies type 2 is becoming an issue in Asia. I do whole wheat pasta, rice, bananas, whole grain oats, etc. I usually take my blood sugar samples fasting, after luch, and after I drink my 1500 cal Nutribullet. I'm always in the normal range. No issues. The issue so many of us face is with the simple carbs. The white breads, pastas, chips, hoagies, ice cream, soda, etc. Carbs have gotten a bad rap lately. It's stupid IMO. Good carbs also supply us with much needed fiber which is severly lacking in the keto diet.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited August 2019
    bmaw01 wrote: »
    It's not the carbs per say. I taught in Thailand and South Korea. White rice is a staple there, and type 2 diabetes was never an issue. Now, with the emergence of fast food, cakes and cookies type 2 is becoming an issue in Asia. I do whole wheat pasta, rice, bananas, whole grain oats, etc. I usually take my blood sugar samples fasting, after luch, and after I drink my 1500 cal Nutribullet. I'm always in the normal range. No issues. The issue so many of us face is with the simple carbs. The white breads, pastas, chips, hoagies, ice cream, soda, etc. Carbs have gotten a bad rap lately. It's stupid IMO. Good carbs also supply us with much needed fiber which is severly lacking in the keto diet.

    Simple carbs mean sugar, not starch -- so fruit = simple carbs, and potatoes (including chips) contain complex carbs, as does white bread.

    What strikes me as different between the foods you initially listed and the later ones is not type of carb, but fat.

    Chips = potatoes plus fat; hoagies (depends on what you put on it, but usually something high fat, as well as some protein), ice cream = sugar + fat. Soda is easy to overconsume if one drinks the sugary kind, since often people drink mindlessly. Fast food, cookies, and cakes -- as much fat as carbs, typically.

    White bread has a bit less fiber than whole wheat, the difference is even less for whole grain vs. white pasta -- I'd suggest that the bigger issue there is amount you consume and what you consume it with.

    White pasta with lots of veg, some olive oil, shrimp, a little feta is for me very filling and low cal. Whole wheat pasta in a cream sauce (or carbonara) with little protein or veg can be super high cal and for many not that filling.

    I'm all for whole grains over the more refined for the most part (although I think people sometimes exaggerate the fiber contribution of even whole grain foods), but I suspect that's not really going to be the key distinction between a healthy and unhealthy diet, and your own reference to white rice not being the problem in some other areas of the world supports that. (I'm not that into grains and am always way over my fiber goal from vegetables, fruit, and beans/legumes, among other foods.)

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