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Unwanted advice at gym
Replies
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rheddmobile wrote: »SnifterPug wrote: »So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.
Well, there is some weird looking stuff going on there. But just because someone is using a machine in an unconventional way does not necessarily mean they are following an unsafe practice. The only one where I would feel the need to say something is to the man at the end hogging a machine while he plays games on his phone.
I was gonna say, as someone who frequently gets weird looks while using a Smith machine for weighted hip thrusts, I wouldn’t want to assume. Some of the people in the video doing the more odd and idiotic things probably saw some YouTube trainer recommending it as an accessory.
I have said something once to a couple of clearly brand new to the gym teenage boys who were having a deadlift contest and pulling with completely rounded backs, because it was painful just watching them. I tried to keep it casual and friendly, “Hey keep an eye on your form, don’t pull with your back,” and they asked me for more information. But if they had said, “Back off, lady,” I would have accepted that considering I was butting in.
What’s wrong with that?1 -
I had to cut and paste because quoting was showing the quote from COGypsy as what I was responding to.
@kshama2001 your earlier post that I was responding to said that suggesting women shouldn't dress in certain ways if they want to avoid being subjected to unwanted behavior by men is risk mitigation, not victim blaming. That's not risk mitigation. That's useless advice that buys into the view that women can control men's behavior by how they address. Women are hit on, harassed, assaulted, and raped wearing all kinds of clothes.
Talking about improving your ability to stay alert to danger by not getting drunk is so different that it clearly is moving the goal posts.
ETA: Gateway timed out while I was writing this. Here's the cut-and-paste quote I mentioned:Alright, here's the analogy I was going to go with first:
College women will reduce their risk of sexual assault if they don't binge drink.
Apparently I need to make it clear that I am not defending sexual assault, so here that is, in bold.
Never binge drinking is not going to reduce the risk to zero, but being incapacitated by alcohol will increase that risk quite a bit.
I would prefer a world in which no one who was incapacitated by alcohol was assaulted, but since that is not the world we live in, people need to take precautions. (And men shouldn't binge drink either.)
I remember this sort of thing being taught to me when I was a Girl Scout in the 70s:8 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »
I’d ask if they were aware of how the machines are actually meant to be used. If they were meanfully doing it that way for their own reasons that they think are helping them, even if it looks crazy AF to me then I’d just be like ok cool and move on. But if they were actually not aware that they were doing it wrong and they asked, I’d show them how I would do it. I’d rather say something then them get hurt.
Don't you have your own workout to do? I don't understand how someone would need to do this... worry about yourself.5 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »
I’d ask if they were aware of how the machines are actually meant to be used. If they were meanfully doing it that way for their own reasons that they think are helping them, even if it looks crazy AF to me then I’d just be like ok cool and move on. But if they were actually not aware that they were doing it wrong and they asked, I’d show them how I would do it. I’d rather say something then them get hurt.
Don't you have your own workout to do? I don't understand how someone would need to do this... worry about yourself.
Yup! If I saw someone doing things like in that video, I would approach staff, make them aware and let them deal with it. Other than that, it's not my rodeo.
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kshama2001 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.
I don't see it as victim blaming but as risk mitigation.
Cars were broken into at a dog park I used to attend and staff put up signs saying to make sure cars were locked and valuables not in sight. This is not victim blaming - it's tips for reducing the risk of an unpleasant event.
Should thieves break into cars? No.
Should car owners make it less attractive for thieves? Yes.
No. Women are not cars. And there's always another excuse to be made about how a woman's dress, behavior, location, lack of a companion, etc., etc., made her a target. Down this path lies confining women to their homes.
Alright, here's the analogy I was going to go with first:
College women will reduce their risk of sexual assault if they don't binge drink.
Apparently I need to make it clear that I am not defending sexual assault, so here that is, in bold.
Never binge drinking is not going to reduce the risk to zero, but being incapacitated by alcohol will increase that risk quite a bit.
I would prefer a world in which no one who was incapacitated by alcohol was assaulted, but since that is not the world we live in, people need to take precautions. (And men shouldn't binge drink either.)
I remember this sort of thing being taught to me when I was a Girl Scout in the 70s:
I actually read everything to see why it's taking off the way it did and all I can think is "minefield". One wrong comment and BOOM!MsHarryWinston wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
Also, I am here to tell you that looking like crap actually makes you MORE likely to be bothered. Because it marks you out as possibly lacking in confidence, possibly sufficiently unattractive and desperate that you’ll accept even bad forms of attention, and generally signals that you may be good ‘prey’.
I got WAY more unwanted attention as a miserable obese person than I do as a fit, cheerful and well-dressed normal-weight person.
This is so true! It’s like you can’t win. I would say that that one could track the “caliber” of treatment based on appearance, but that’s a whole other sociological experiment.
Oh, and to the post above about the cute girl approaching the guys. I’m not quite sure how to put this except to say, it’s not the same thing. There tends to be a completely different energy between the two scenarios.
I didn't say or suggest it was the same thing.
Just a real life example of two people not sterotypes. Intended as an uplifting example as it happens.
Oh, gotcha! Never mind then, lol, my bad.
No problem.
This thread has since become even more depressing!
Must tell my daughter that next time a customer comments on the size of her breasts that apparently the correct response isn't to confront their behaviour and throw them out of the pub it's for her to wear a sack and sympathise that the bloke is having a bad hormone day.....
All I wanted to say after reading all the comments is that sometimes it's very easy to attribute views/thoughts/motives etc, in person, much less over the web. That said, There's very little I'm "hardwired" to do, although I'm glad those circuits are in place. I do not have to minimize anyone by my words or actions, and I don't have to tolerate it either.
My point is, if I decide to take exception to something anyone says or does to me, it isn't because of "who" they are, or "how" they are, or what gender they are or perceive themselves as being or anything else other than that they're probably being a jerk at the moment.
It's ridiculous that anyone should have to walk on eggshells or modify their behavior just to feel safe and/or live their lives as fully as possible.
Clearly you aren't a woman Awareness of my own safety impacts nearly every decision I make. Where, when, with whom and the route I take when I walk; whether I wait for friends in front of the restaurant or in my car; the clothes I wear; the shoes I wear; where I park; who I may casually speak to or make eye contact with; how I carry my keys; how I carry my bags...when I stop to think about it, it's quite a list, but really, it's just a fact of life.
As a woman, I think you have an out in these discussions by just using "I" statements. If you were to say "I'd avoid binge drinking, because it would reduce my risk", I think any disagreement with that statement is just looking to foment disagreement for its own sake.
Consider the language if instead of societal level issues, it was an abusive relationship. While it might be true that an abused spouse looking to avoid being struck would probably reduce the chance by not criticizing their abusive spouse, suggesting that as any kind of solution sounds wrong, even if it is correct in reducing the likelihood.8 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Don't you have your own workout to do? I don't understand how someone would need to do this... worry about yourself.
Some people are concerned about others in their community. When someone gets injured, they could be out of work and their family could suffer, which in turn affects others in the community. A 30 second convo can change lives, and it easily fits in between sets.
Then again, the people in that video almost certainly know they're using the machines incorrectly, and in my experience, they will be resistant to advice. But if a wandering newbie is trying to do bicep curls on a leg extension machine (which i have seen!) i might point them to a website, app, or youtube, to get some guidance (which is likely to be better than Planet Fitness' staff).
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Cherimoose wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Don't you have your own workout to do? I don't understand how someone would need to do this... worry about yourself.
Some people are concerned about others in their community. When someone gets injured, they could be out of work and their family could suffer, which in turn affects others in the community. A 30 second convo can change lives, and it easily fits in between sets.
Then again, the people in that video almost certainly know they're using the machines incorrectly, and in my experience, they will be resistant to advice. But if a wandering newbie is trying to do bicep curls on a leg extension machine (which i have seen!) i might point them to a website, app, or youtube, to get some guidance (which is likely to be better than Planet Fitness' staff).
And get sued for liability... yeah no.3 -
PapillonNoire wrote: »Offering unsolicited advice is generally bad practice. If I were genuinely concerned that someone was going to injure themselves during their workout, I would quietly tell a gym trainer or staff member and let the professionals handle it. I think this guy was very out of line.
Why is unsolicited advice considered bad practice at the gym?
Thank you for the setup. If you are thinking of giving unsolicited advice:
1. You don’t know as much as you think you do. There is at least a 50-50 chance that any advice you give will be wrong.
2. You don’t know anything about the person or why they are doing the exercise the way they are doing it. You don’t know their medical, health, or exercise history. You don’t know their functional abilities.
3. Even if you did know the information in #2, it is virtually certain that you don’t know how to interpret it or how to apply it to a person’s workout routine.
4. Nobody likes a buttinsky.
5. Did I mention you don’t know as much as you think you do and are just as likely to give incorrect information as correct information?
6. Most of the time if people want advice, they will ask for it. The lack of asking is a good indication they don’t want your input.
7. Don’t you have your own #*@&ing workout to do?
8. Gym staff are covered by liability insurance. You aren’t. Since you likely fall under #1, #3, and #5, it is to your advantage to keep your brilliant thoughts to yourself.
9. You really want to help? Unrack your weights, pick up your *kitten*, and wipe your bench off after you are finished.
100% this!!5 -
it makes for a pretty funny video but if they want to hurt themselves, that's on them. If they were hurting someone else, then yes, I'd butt in.2
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Chef_Barbell wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »
I’d ask if they were aware of how the machines are actually meant to be used. If they were meanfully doing it that way for their own reasons that they think are helping them, even if it looks crazy AF to me then I’d just be like ok cool and move on. But if they were actually not aware that they were doing it wrong and they asked, I’d show them how I would do it. I’d rather say something then them get hurt.
Don't you have your own workout to do? I don't understand how someone would need to do this... worry about yourself.
I said why I would feel the need to do this.1 -
PapillonNoire wrote: »Offering unsolicited advice is generally bad practice. If I were genuinely concerned that someone was going to injure themselves during their workout, I would quietly tell a gym trainer or staff member and let the professionals handle it. I think this guy was very out of line.
Why is unsolicited advice considered bad practice at the gym?
Thank you for the setup. If you are thinking of giving unsolicited advice:
1. You don’t know as much as you think you do. There is at least a 50-50 chance that any advice you give will be wrong.
2. You don’t know anything about the person or why they are doing the exercise the way they are doing it. You don’t know their medical, health, or exercise history. You don’t know their functional abilities.
3. Even if you did know the information in #2, it is virtually certain that you don’t know how to interpret it or how to apply it to a person’s workout routine.
4. Nobody likes a buttinsky.
5. Did I mention you don’t know as much as you think you do and are just as likely to give incorrect information as correct information?
6. Most of the time if people want advice, they will ask for it. The lack of asking is a good indication they don’t want your input.
7. Don’t you have your own #*@&ing workout to do?
8. Gym staff are covered by liability insurance. You aren’t. Since you likely fall under #1, #3, and #5, it is to your advantage to keep your brilliant thoughts to yourself.
9. You really want to help? Unrack your weights, pick up your *kitten*, and wipe your bench off after you are finished.
I quoted this because it's worth repeating. LOVE IT!
Recently a random guy approached me and told me I was doing an exercise wrong. I was doing a rehab exercise for my back. (I'm currently in physical therapy.) My husband was standing ten feet away- he's an exercise physiologist. I just felt straight up pity for the guy when hubby came up to see what we were talking about. That poor guy was clearly not anticipating getting a lecture about why he was wrong.14 -
pyrusangeles wrote: »
Recently a random guy approached me and told me I was doing an exercise wrong. I was doing a rehab exercise for my back. (I'm currently in physical therapy.) My husband was standing ten feet away- he's an exercise physiologist. I just felt straight up pity for the guy when hubby came up to see what we were talking about. That poor guy was clearly not anticipating getting a lecture about why he was wrong.
That did make me laugh, serves him right!
I generally go with the concise, 'I'm fine thank you' and a death stare. Shortly followed by a 'is there anything else you need?' If someone is still hanging around, and reporting if there is any escalation.
I'm not there to socialise and frankly don't give a monkeys if someone thinks I'm a cow.
What is interesting, depressing, and unsurprising is how often these threads bring up the same responses.
We have the classics here. What were you wearing? as if that alone can be an invitation. The idea that somehow one person's behaviour is the responsibility of the victim.
And of course my favourite - Maybe he was just trying to be nice.
Because of course my poor little lady brain cannot distinguish between a genuine offer of help, and someone being inappropriate and creepy. Despite millions of years of evolution (and of course my own lived experience) which enables me to read tone, body language, situation etc and establish a threat level. Whether or not it would be a threat to someone else is irrelevant to whether it is a threat to me.
Besides which, whatever a persons intentions, no-one is obliged to be nice back anyway.
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So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.
<snip video for reply length>
I'm still in the "tell the staff there's a problem" camp, predominantly.
If the staff can't be found, and circumstances politely and safely allow**, I'd consider an interaction (during a set break, say) along the lines of 'Wow, I've never seen the machine used like that! Where did you learn to do it that way, and what do you find it helpful for?" and see if there's an opportunity to suggest something safer, if only obliquely.
** There is, I've found, a kind of "li'l ol' lady privilege", where people expect us to be a bit honest/unfiltered/over-friendly, so they'll let us get away with saying stuff that others couldn't. (I don't make a regular habit of this; I'm just aware of it as a possibility.) OTOH, I'm not super big or strong, and some wrong-headed people can be very aggressive very abruptly, so situation-reading would be required.
For example, as a senior (in every sense) member of my rowing club, I recognize by sight the rowers who just learned to row, and will - as pleasantly and non-accusatorily as I can muster - remind them of safety practices that they were taught in class, or help them learn/practice safety-related skills they obviously haven't quite learned yet, if I see them on the dock or out on the water doing something whacky. But this is a very different social setting than a normal gym, too.7 -
littlegreenparrot1 wrote: »pyrusangeles wrote: »
Recently a random guy approached me and told me I was doing an exercise wrong. I was doing a rehab exercise for my back. (I'm currently in physical therapy.) My husband was standing ten feet away- he's an exercise physiologist. I just felt straight up pity for the guy when hubby came up to see what we were talking about. That poor guy was clearly not anticipating getting a lecture about why he was wrong.
That did make me laugh, serves him right!
I generally go with the concise, 'I'm fine thank you' and a death stare. Shortly followed by a 'is there anything else you need?' If someone is still hanging around, and reporting if there is any escalation.
I'm not there to socialise and frankly don't give a monkeys if someone thinks I'm a cow.
What is interesting, depressing, and unsurprising is how often these threads bring up the same responses.
We have the classics here. What were you wearing? as if that alone can be an invitation. The idea that somehow one person's behaviour is the responsibility of the victim.
And of course my favourite - Maybe he was just trying to be nice.
Because of course my poor little lady brain cannot distinguish between a genuine offer of help, and someone being inappropriate and creepy. Despite millions of years of evolution (and of course my own lived experience) which enables me to read tone, body language, situation etc and establish a threat level. Whether or not it would be a threat to someone else is irrelevant to whether it is a threat to me.
Besides which, whatever a persons intentions, no-one is obliged to be nice back anyway.
While I do (in general) think it's a good thing not be be the one who's not-nice first (basically a personal "keep to the high road" strategy), I agree with the bolded.
I think that social environment changes over the last few decades, regarding that "obligation to be nice", are a source of some of the heat around topics like this one, still.5 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Call me non-sociable, or whatever, but I really don't want to be talking to anyone at the gym, period. There is a big difference in being polite and saying hello, to giving advice or inquiring about someone else's workout. That annoys me to no end, and especially in this situation I would have probably told the guy to *kitten* off. I just want to get in there, do my work, and leave. People who do this are either making a very poor attempt at flirting, or are trying to feed their ego. I wish there was one gym we could ship all these people off to. That would be pretty entertaining actually, to see all these bro types critiquing each other and trying to determine who has the most perfect form. Thats reality tv I would watch.
Assuming from your photo/avatar you're male, if you told him to kitten off, he wouldn't have called you a b***h or a c**t, which is actually on the low end of what women have to be aware could happen if they tell a jerk offering unsolicited advice, compliments, or invitations "no".
That may be true, but I don't understand what that has to do with what I said, or why you feel the need to critique what I said. I simply stated how I would react in that situation, but I wasn't telling the OP how she should have reacted. I think she has the right to react however she feels fit. I am male, which is why I was voicing my frustration with other males that act like this in the gym.9 -
So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.
<snip video for reply length>
I'm still in the "tell the staff there's a problem" camp, predominantly.
If the staff can't be found, and circumstances politely and safely allow**, I'd consider an interaction (during a set break, say) along the lines of 'Wow, I've never seen the machine used like that! Where did you learn to do it that way, and what do you find it helpful for?" and see if there's an opportunity to suggest something safer, if only obliquely.
** There is, I've found, a kind of "li'l ol' lady privilege", where people expect us to be a bit honest/unfiltered/over-friendly, so they'll let us get away with saying stuff that others couldn't. (I don't make a regular habit of this; I'm just aware of it as a possibility.) OTOH, I'm not super big or strong, and some wrong-headed people can be very aggressive very abruptly, so situation-reading would be required.
For example, as a senior (in every sense) member of my rowing club, I recognize by sight the rowers who just learned to row, and will - as pleasantly and non-accusatorily as I can muster - remind them of safety practices that they were taught in class, or help them learn/practice safety-related skills they obviously haven't quite learned yet, if I see them on the dock or out on the water doing something whacky. But this is a very different social setting than a normal gym, too.
@Chef_Barbell thoughts?
0 -
So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.
<snip video for reply length>
I'm still in the "tell the staff there's a problem" camp, predominantly.
If the staff can't be found, and circumstances politely and safely allow**, I'd consider an interaction (during a set break, say) along the lines of 'Wow, I've never seen the machine used like that! Where did you learn to do it that way, and what do you find it helpful for?" and see if there's an opportunity to suggest something safer, if only obliquely.
** There is, I've found, a kind of "li'l ol' lady privilege", where people expect us to be a bit honest/unfiltered/over-friendly, so they'll let us get away with saying stuff that others couldn't. (I don't make a regular habit of this; I'm just aware of it as a possibility.) OTOH, I'm not super big or strong, and some wrong-headed people can be very aggressive very abruptly, so situation-reading would be required.
For example, as a senior (in every sense) member of my rowing club, I recognize by sight the rowers who just learned to row, and will - as pleasantly and non-accusatorily as I can muster - remind them of safety practices that they were taught in class, or help them learn/practice safety-related skills they obviously haven't quite learned yet, if I see them on the dock or out on the water doing something whacky. But this is a very different social setting than a normal gym, too.
@Chef_Barbell thoughts?
Before she adds her thoughts, I should've mentioned, in my last paragraph, that the reason I recognize the new rowers is that I would've helped with delivering the class they just took, so they recognize me, too. On the rowing version of Azdak's checklist, I come out pretty clean.
At the gym, I'm just another bozo, albeit a li'l ol' lady.4 -
So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.
<snip video for reply length>
I'm still in the "tell the staff there's a problem" camp, predominantly.
If the staff can't be found, and circumstances politely and safely allow**, I'd consider an interaction (during a set break, say) along the lines of 'Wow, I've never seen the machine used like that! Where did you learn to do it that way, and what do you find it helpful for?" and see if there's an opportunity to suggest something safer, if only obliquely.
** There is, I've found, a kind of "li'l ol' lady privilege", where people expect us to be a bit honest/unfiltered/over-friendly, so they'll let us get away with saying stuff that others couldn't. (I don't make a regular habit of this; I'm just aware of it as a possibility.) OTOH, I'm not super big or strong, and some wrong-headed people can be very aggressive very abruptly, so situation-reading would be required.
For example, as a senior (in every sense) member of my rowing club, I recognize by sight the rowers who just learned to row, and will - as pleasantly and non-accusatorily as I can muster - remind them of safety practices that they were taught in class, or help them learn/practice safety-related skills they obviously haven't quite learned yet, if I see them on the dock or out on the water doing something whacky. But this is a very different social setting than a normal gym, too.
@Chef_Barbell thoughts?
Not sure why my thoughts matter lolz.7 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Call me non-sociable, or whatever, but I really don't want to be talking to anyone at the gym, period. There is a big difference in being polite and saying hello, to giving advice or inquiring about someone else's workout. That annoys me to no end, and especially in this situation I would have probably told the guy to *kitten* off. I just want to get in there, do my work, and leave. People who do this are either making a very poor attempt at flirting, or are trying to feed their ego. I wish there was one gym we could ship all these people off to. That would be pretty entertaining actually, to see all these bro types critiquing each other and trying to determine who has the most perfect form. Thats reality tv I would watch.
Assuming from your photo/avatar you're male, if you told him to kitten off, he wouldn't have called you a b***h or a c**t, which is actually on the low end of what women have to be aware could happen if they tell a jerk offering unsolicited advice, compliments, or invitations "no".
That may be true, but I don't understand what that has to do with what I said, or why you feel the need to critique what I said. I simply stated how I would react in that situation, but I wasn't telling the OP how she should have reacted. I think she has the right to react however she feels fit. I am male, which is why I was voicing my frustration with other males that act like this in the gym.
OK. I don't think interpreting exchanges in the format:
X: I had this experience that really bothered me
Y: Here's what I would do in that situation
as Y offering advice on how to handle the situation is a bizarre interpretation, absent some kind of disclaimer like, "but that's just me."
But that's just me.2 -
So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.
<snip video for reply length>
I'm still in the "tell the staff there's a problem" camp, predominantly.
If the staff can't be found, and circumstances politely and safely allow**, I'd consider an interaction (during a set break, say) along the lines of 'Wow, I've never seen the machine used like that! Where did you learn to do it that way, and what do you find it helpful for?" and see if there's an opportunity to suggest something safer, if only obliquely.
** There is, I've found, a kind of "li'l ol' lady privilege", where people expect us to be a bit honest/unfiltered/over-friendly, so they'll let us get away with saying stuff that others couldn't. (I don't make a regular habit of this; I'm just aware of it as a possibility.) OTOH, I'm not super big or strong, and some wrong-headed people can be very aggressive very abruptly, so situation-reading would be required.
For example, as a senior (in every sense) member of my rowing club, I recognize by sight the rowers who just learned to row, and will - as pleasantly and non-accusatorily as I can muster - remind them of safety practices that they were taught in class, or help them learn/practice safety-related skills they obviously haven't quite learned yet, if I see them on the dock or out on the water doing something whacky. But this is a very different social setting than a normal gym, too.
I would listen to you Ms.Anne because you have massive delts!🤩3
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