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Unwanted advice at gym

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Replies

  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,097 Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    COGypsy wrote: »
    I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”

    Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.

    It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.

    Ok, first off I am not into hitting on women at the gym. Not my "thing" honestly. Only time I even speak to anyone is if I know them or are interested in a lift or routine they are doing. Not going to "victim" blame here, but, if I came into the gym in a pair of daisy duke shorts and 1/2 t-shirt, I might expect a little attention. Wanted or unwanted. IMHO, the problem has less to do with wants, but the hard wiring of our brains. Now the person giving the unwanted "attention", has the ability to fight their urges, but it goes against our history. When we look at equal rights, outside of small populations around the world, the timeline of treatment is just a blink in our 1million year history. Well, the person who dressed a certain way may not have any intention of getting attention, but the subconscious is a real kitten. Sometimes it will cause us to do things we don't intend to. Nether the gal who wears the skin tight cloths with her breast hanging out, or the guy wearing the skin tight sleeveless t-shirt may intend to get attention. They may think, I feel more comfortable in this and maybe they do, but subconsciously most people are wired to try and attract the opposite sex or same sex.... according to their preference.

    Wild and uncontrollable hormone-fed thought? OK, whatever.

    Rude behavior? Unempathetic? Continued after clear "no"? That's on the perpetrator. No matter how the victim dressed.

    Controlling inappropriate impulses is part of the definition of "sane adult".

    Not hormone fed directly. More of differences in the brain and millions of years of evolution. There is some evidence that high amounts of testosterone while a baby is in the uterus does affect the way the brain is formed. As I mentioned, we have the ability as humans to NOT follow our impulses. Though, what we do has to be looked at in context. We humans do certain things subconsciously. Oh I don't blame the person getting bothered at all for the annoyance. The NO should have been enough to tell him or her to get lost. Though all I was stating WAS sometimes we dress a certain way or whatever for reasons we think we understand, but somethings are hardwired to do things. Human woman don't go into heat like many other species do. So, back in the pre cave days, how was a male of our species supposed to know if she was receptive? Subtle ques. Unfortunately in a time when this is no longer needed, they still exist. Maybe IF the human species makes it another million years these things will be bred out.

    Y'all can control behavior. Choose to.

    Do you think we don't have hormones and impulses? <snort>

    ohh ms. ann. I worked with 90% women for YEARS and can tell you y'all can be just as bad as any man. I've seen it from both directions. I have also had the privilege of dealing with several women going through a transgender procedure. Going from female to male. When some of them are given the hormone therapy, they can become quite aggressive in all things.

    So there are a lot of things going on here including the spreading of misinformation. Additionally, the people you were working with were not women, they were men (given that you said they were "going from female to male". If you want more information on the effect of testosterone on transmen here are some links:
    https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-testosterone-hormone-therapy
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30999214

    not spreading scaring, in fact I fully support anyone being who they want to be. Male, female, straight, gay, pan. whatever, but when you have worked with people for a while and then they are given hormones that change them and now you notice tendencies to be more aggressive. How is that scare tactics? Its simply an N=1 observation. yes, one of the things I grew up with were transgender was a choice. I no longer believe that. I think that people are born a certain way. The "decision" is not a "decision". They are physically female, but in the brain. I mean the actual brain they are male. I actually had the fortitude to talk to several of the gentleman about what it was like growing up. They told me that from a young age they felt different than what they were being told. They felt ashamed they were attracted to women, wanted to wear mens cloths...ect. The area I am in is in the "bible" belt. So, when I say I got their life story I did. Because, I was curious about how things worked. One of them was nice enough to show me some research on the brains of SOME transgenders actually look more Male than female.

    I'm guessing the term for this is transplaining.
  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    COGypsy wrote: »
    I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”

    Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.

    It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.

    Ok, first off I am not into hitting on women at the gym. Not my "thing" honestly. Only time I even speak to anyone is if I know them or are interested in a lift or routine they are doing. Not going to "victim" blame here, but, if I came into the gym in a pair of daisy duke shorts and 1/2 t-shirt, I might expect a little attention. Wanted or unwanted. IMHO, the problem has less to do with wants, but the hard wiring of our brains. Now the person giving the unwanted "attention", has the ability to fight their urges, but it goes against our history. When we look at equal rights, outside of small populations around the world, the timeline of treatment is just a blink in our 1million year history. Well, the person who dressed a certain way may not have any intention of getting attention, but the subconscious is a real kitten. Sometimes it will cause us to do things we don't intend to. Nether the gal who wears the skin tight cloths with her breast hanging out, or the guy wearing the skin tight sleeveless t-shirt may intend to get attention. They may think, I feel more comfortable in this and maybe they do, but subconsciously most people are wired to try and attract the opposite sex or same sex.... according to their preference.

    Wild and uncontrollable hormone-fed thought? OK, whatever.

    Rude behavior? Unempathetic? Continued after clear "no"? That's on the perpetrator. No matter how the victim dressed.

    Controlling inappropriate impulses is part of the definition of "sane adult".

    Not hormone fed directly. More of differences in the brain and millions of years of evolution. There is some evidence that high amounts of testosterone while a baby is in the uterus does affect the way the brain is formed. As I mentioned, we have the ability as humans to NOT follow our impulses. Though, what we do has to be looked at in context. We humans do certain things subconsciously. Oh I don't blame the person getting bothered at all for the annoyance. The NO should have been enough to tell him or her to get lost. Though all I was stating WAS sometimes we dress a certain way or whatever for reasons we think we understand, but somethings are hardwired to do things. Human woman don't go into heat like many other species do. So, back in the pre cave days, how was a male of our species supposed to know if she was receptive? Subtle ques. Unfortunately in a time when this is no longer needed, they still exist. Maybe IF the human species makes it another million years these things will be bred out.

    Y'all can control behavior. Choose to.

    Do you think we don't have hormones and impulses? <snort>

    ohh ms. ann. I worked with 90% women for YEARS and can tell you y'all can be just as bad as any man. I've seen it from both directions. I have also had the privilege of dealing with several women going through a transgender procedure. Going from female to male. When some of them are given the hormone therapy, they can become quite aggressive in all things.

    So there are a lot of things going on here including the spreading of misinformation. Additionally, the people you were working with were not women, they were men (given that you said they were "going from female to male". If you want more information on the effect of testosterone on transmen here are some links:
    https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-testosterone-hormone-therapy
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30999214

    not spreading scaring, in fact I fully support anyone being who they want to be. Male, female, straight, gay, pan. whatever, but when you have worked with people for a while and then they are given hormones that change them and now you notice tendencies to be more aggressive. How is that scare tactics? Its simply an N=1 observation. yes, one of the things I grew up with were transgender was a choice. I no longer believe that. I think that people are born a certain way. The "decision" is not a "decision". They are physically female, but in the brain. I mean the actual brain they are male. I actually had the fortitude to talk to several of the gentleman about what it was like growing up. They told me that from a young age they felt different than what they were being told. They felt ashamed they were attracted to women, wanted to wear mens cloths...ect. The area I am in is in the "bible" belt. So, when I say I got their life story I did. Because, I was curious about how things worked. One of them was nice enough to show me some research on the brains of SOME transgenders actually look more Male than female.

    I'm guessing the term for this is transplaining.

    Indeed it is.
  • MsHarryWinston
    MsHarryWinston Posts: 1,027 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”

    Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.

    Also, I am here to tell you that looking like crap actually makes you MORE likely to be bothered. Because it marks you out as possibly lacking in confidence, possibly sufficiently unattractive and desperate that you’ll accept even bad forms of attention, and generally signals that you may be good ‘prey’.

    I got WAY more unwanted attention as a miserable obese person than I do as a fit, cheerful and well-dressed normal-weight person.

    This is so true! It’s like you can’t win. I would say that that one could track the “caliber” of treatment based on appearance, but that’s a whole other sociological experiment.

    Oh, and to the post above about the cute girl approaching the guys. I’m not quite sure how to put this except to say, it’s not the same thing. There tends to be a completely different energy between the two scenarios.

    I didn't say or suggest it was the same thing.
    Just a real life example of two people not sterotypes. Intended as an uplifting example as it happens.

    Oh, gotcha! Never mind then, lol, my bad.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,496 Member
    edited September 2019
    wmd1979 wrote: »
    Call me non-sociable, or whatever, but I really don't want to be talking to anyone at the gym, period. There is a big difference in being polite and saying hello, to giving advice or inquiring about someone else's workout. That annoys me to no end, and especially in this situation I would have probably told the guy to *kitten* off. I just want to get in there, do my work, and leave. People who do this are either making a very poor attempt at flirting, or are trying to feed their ego. I wish there was one gym we could ship all these people off to. That would be pretty entertaining actually, to see all these bro types critiquing each other and trying to determine who has the most perfect form. Thats reality tv I would watch.

    Assuming from your photo/avatar you're male, if you told him to kitten off, he wouldn't have called you a b***h or a c**t, which is actually on the low end of what women have to be aware could happen if they tell a jerk offering unsolicited advice, compliments, or invitations "no".

    Of course not, the guy would have called him a d**k or a##h#le. People tend to react if someone tells them to kitten off, regardless of sex.
  • psychod787
    psychod787 Posts: 4,099 Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    COGypsy wrote: »
    I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”

    Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.

    It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.

    Ok, first off I am not into hitting on women at the gym. Not my "thing" honestly. Only time I even speak to anyone is if I know them or are interested in a lift or routine they are doing. Not going to "victim" blame here, but, if I came into the gym in a pair of daisy duke shorts and 1/2 t-shirt, I might expect a little attention. Wanted or unwanted. IMHO, the problem has less to do with wants, but the hard wiring of our brains. Now the person giving the unwanted "attention", has the ability to fight their urges, but it goes against our history. When we look at equal rights, outside of small populations around the world, the timeline of treatment is just a blink in our 1million year history. Well, the person who dressed a certain way may not have any intention of getting attention, but the subconscious is a real kitten. Sometimes it will cause us to do things we don't intend to. Nether the gal who wears the skin tight cloths with her breast hanging out, or the guy wearing the skin tight sleeveless t-shirt may intend to get attention. They may think, I feel more comfortable in this and maybe they do, but subconsciously most people are wired to try and attract the opposite sex or same sex.... according to their preference.

    Just a warning. If you get called in by HR, saying "it's hard-wired in our brain and she was dressed in a certain way" isn't going to cut it.

    Actually, in my working environment, 90% women... it's the other way around!
  • petitchatnoir41
    petitchatnoir41 Posts: 56 Member
    Did you have headphones? They are a good way to focus and give off the impression you are trying to do your own thing.
  • nighthawk584
    nighthawk584 Posts: 2,024 Member
    I would just add, make sure this dude isn't following you home...sounds a little creepy and desperate.
  • shaf238
    shaf238 Posts: 4,022 Member
    It's only ever appropriate if you asked someone to watch your form and critique it. And even then, they may still not know what correct form looks like! He's an outlier in terms of approaching someone in the gym to tell them their form is bad. You crack on the best way you know how and if you have any doubt, like you said, you have a PT and that's the person you can turn to for advice. Keep at it.
  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,208 Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    So what's your argument for women who get "approached," assaulted, even raped wearing anything low-key t-shirts and shorts to low-key baggy sweats? And over-the-ear headphones just make you more vulnerable.

    Assault and other crimes are irrelevant to the OP's question and my post, so i won't answer that here, sorry. Feel free to PM me.
  • fit_mama30
    fit_mama30 Posts: 178 Member
    edited September 2019
    I don't know. I have been approached once or twice in the gym. The things that were mentioned to me were helpful. I don't mind someone approaching me and giving me advice.

    I'm not saying what happened to you is appropriate, but I also don't look like you. I've never been "hit on" at the gym. Usually it's just, "Hey, since you're so short, if you put the seat setting to this, you'll get a better range of motion and not put as much strain on the wrong set of muscles," or something along those lines.

    I'm sorry it happened but I'm glad your form is excellent. You LIFT your boohiney off, sister!

    Yeah, same here.

    Once a guy gave me a tip about stiff leg deadlifts. He was right and I wasn't paying attention to my form at the time so I welcomed the advice.

    I mean, it always depends on how the person is approaching me. The guy ended up talking to me for a while (no clue if he was flirting or not) but he was respectful and wasn't talking to me like he knew better because he is a male.

    Then again I've had random "advice" for other guys and it was just... GTFO, you don't know what you're talking about (he has awful form and is not in a position to give advice). And in those case you just nod and keep doing your thing.

    Also, I always have headphones but that doesn't stop anyone from talking ;)

  • Phirrgus
    Phirrgus Posts: 1,894 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”

    Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.

    Also, I am here to tell you that looking like crap actually makes you MORE likely to be bothered. Because it marks you out as possibly lacking in confidence, possibly sufficiently unattractive and desperate that you’ll accept even bad forms of attention, and generally signals that you may be good ‘prey’.

    I got WAY more unwanted attention as a miserable obese person than I do as a fit, cheerful and well-dressed normal-weight person.

    This is so true! It’s like you can’t win. I would say that that one could track the “caliber” of treatment based on appearance, but that’s a whole other sociological experiment.

    Oh, and to the post above about the cute girl approaching the guys. I’m not quite sure how to put this except to say, it’s not the same thing. There tends to be a completely different energy between the two scenarios.

    I didn't say or suggest it was the same thing.
    Just a real life example of two people not sterotypes. Intended as an uplifting example as it happens.

    Oh, gotcha! Never mind then, lol, my bad.

    No problem.
    This thread has since become even more depressing!

    Must tell my daughter that next time a customer comments on the size of her breasts that apparently the correct response isn't to confront their behaviour and throw them out of the pub it's for her to wear a sack and sympathise that the bloke is having a bad hormone day.....
    I actually read everything to see why it's taking off the way it did and all I can think is "minefield". One wrong comment and BOOM! :D

    All I wanted to say after reading all the comments is that sometimes it's very easy to attribute views/thoughts/motives etc, in person, much less over the web. That said, There's very little I'm "hardwired" to do, although I'm glad those circuits are in place. I do not have to minimize anyone by my words or actions, and I don't have to tolerate it either.

    My point is, if I decide to take exception to something anyone says or does to me, it isn't because of "who" they are, or "how" they are, or what gender they are or perceive themselves as being or anything else other than that they're probably being a jerk at the moment.

    It's ridiculous that anyone should have to walk on eggshells or modify their behavior just to feel safe and/or live their lives as fully as possible.

    I'm doing the same and see the same reaction although it's not even the wrong comment. Confirmation bias and projection on display.

    It's one comment removed from context that fits a strawman construction in the mind of the outraged. Giving them license and justification to unleash wrath onto the strawman.
    Half of all internet debates would shut down were it not for that tiny bit of misplaced context :D Strawmen are fairly easy to deal with though. But a strawman handing out red herring is a bit tougher lol.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”

    Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.

    Also, I am here to tell you that looking like crap actually makes you MORE likely to be bothered. Because it marks you out as possibly lacking in confidence, possibly sufficiently unattractive and desperate that you’ll accept even bad forms of attention, and generally signals that you may be good ‘prey’.

    I got WAY more unwanted attention as a miserable obese person than I do as a fit, cheerful and well-dressed normal-weight person.

    This is so true! It’s like you can’t win. I would say that that one could track the “caliber” of treatment based on appearance, but that’s a whole other sociological experiment.

    Oh, and to the post above about the cute girl approaching the guys. I’m not quite sure how to put this except to say, it’s not the same thing. There tends to be a completely different energy between the two scenarios.

    I didn't say or suggest it was the same thing.
    Just a real life example of two people not sterotypes. Intended as an uplifting example as it happens.

    Oh, gotcha! Never mind then, lol, my bad.

    No problem.
    This thread has since become even more depressing!

    Must tell my daughter that next time a customer comments on the size of her breasts that apparently the correct response isn't to confront their behaviour and throw them out of the pub it's for her to wear a sack and sympathise that the bloke is having a bad hormone day.....
    I actually read everything to see why it's taking off the way it did and all I can think is "minefield". One wrong comment and BOOM! :D

    All I wanted to say after reading all the comments is that sometimes it's very easy to attribute views/thoughts/motives etc, in person, much less over the web. That said, There's very little I'm "hardwired" to do, although I'm glad those circuits are in place. I do not have to minimize anyone by my words or actions, and I don't have to tolerate it either.

    My point is, if I decide to take exception to something anyone says or does to me, it isn't because of "who" they are, or "how" they are, or what gender they are or perceive themselves as being or anything else other than that they're probably being a jerk at the moment.

    It's ridiculous that anyone should have to walk on eggshells or modify their behavior just to feel safe and/or live their lives as fully as possible.

    I'm doing the same and see the same reaction although it's not even the wrong comment. Confirmation bias and projection on display.

    It's one comment removed from context that fits a strawman construction in the mind of the outraged. Giving them license and justification to unleash wrath onto the strawman.
    Half of all internet debates would shut down were it not for that tiny bit of misplaced context :D Strawmen are fairly easy to deal with though. But a strawman handing out red herring is a bit tougher lol.

    It's born out of resentment and envy. Easily identified, but impossible to deal with as those mired in such a state are in a prison of their own making.

    "One reason why so many people are unhappy, not knowing why, is that they have burdened their minds with resentments. These evil thoughts pile right on top of happier and generous ones and smother them so that they never get expression. Resentments are a form of hate.... What a dearth of good will and co-operation there are among human beings and nations! What a world this would be if we all worked together, and as a popular diplomat recently expressed it-played together!" George Matthew Adams