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Unwanted advice at gym
Replies
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psychod787 wrote: »Guess I am just evil.... I watched a guy doing deads with poor form.... threw out his back. I didn't say a word. Polite or just gym rules?
One of my previous physical therapists, who specializes in sports medicine and works with athletes every workday, told me a story about how she watched someone nearly dislocate both of their knees at the gym. Their technique while doing I don't remember what lift was just that bad and they were lifting a lot of weight.
She turned around and ignored him. Had he hurt himself she'd likely have been obligated to do something, but that "something" isn't telling him how to lift.2 -
I suppose I'd be willing to give someone unsolicited advice if it was because they were doing something that directly affected me. The example I'm thinking of is if you're lap swimming and there are multiple people in a lane and one of those people doesn't know the direction of circle swimming at that pool. That's especially true if it's posted on a sign on the pool deck that you can easily point to, though regardless communication needs to happen so people aren't swimming literally head to head.3
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psychod787 wrote: »Guess I am just evil.... I watched a guy doing deads with poor form.... threw out his back. I didn't say a word. Polite or just gym rules?
One of my previous physical therapists, who specializes in sports medicine and works with athletes every workday, told me a story about how she watched someone nearly dislocate both of their knees at the gym. Their technique while doing I don't remember what lift was just that bad and they were lifting a lot of weight.
She turned around and ignored him. Had he hurt himself she'd likely have been obligated to do something, but that "something" isn't telling him how to lift.
In talking with my friend/gym owner/ trainer, he expresses it as a liability issue. People sign waivers if they injure themselves. If you offer unsolicited advice, you can be liable in the event of injury. He won't do it even in his own gym. He may stop someone and prevent them from using his facility. But he won't give advice unless he has a training agreement with the person.5 -
psychod787 wrote: »Guess I am just evil.... I watched a guy doing deads with poor form.... threw out his back. I didn't say a word. Polite or just gym rules?
Anyone else putting this together with a few threads in the General forum and kinda... wondering...?
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OP - If you want to deter guys from hitting on you, wear large headphones, and wear non-sexy clothes and no makeup.
Yes, it's occasionally appropriate to help others.. like the wandering newbie who's using machines upside down and there's no staff to help. It's not much different than telling someone they dropped something from their wallet, telling a driver their headlights are off, asking a lost tourist if they need help, etc.3 -
psychod787 wrote: »Guess I am just evil.... I watched a guy doing deads with poor form.... threw out his back. I didn't say a word. Polite or just gym rules?
Anyone else putting this together with a few threads in the General forum and kinda... wondering...?
I am evil....... lol Not Joker evil.... More like Emperor Palpatine from star wars...3 -
Cherimoose wrote: »OP - If you want to deter guys from hitting on you, wear large headphones, and wear non-sexy clothes and no makeup.
Yes, it's occasionally appropriate to help others.. like the wandering newbie who's using machines upside down and there's no staff to help. It's not much different than telling someone they dropped something from their wallet, telling a driver their headlights are off, asking a lost tourist if they need help, etc.
But I didn't drop anything and I didn't need help. If i wanted help I'm i'd ask. What makes his way right and mine wrong? I know what im doing.13 -
Cherimoose wrote: »OP - If you want to deter guys from hitting on you, wear large headphones, and wear non-sexy clothes and no makeup.
Yes, it's occasionally appropriate to help others.. like the wandering newbie who's using machines upside down and there's no staff to help. It's not much different than telling someone they dropped something from their wallet, telling a driver their headlights are off, asking a lost tourist if they need help, etc.
But I didn't drop anything and I didn't need help. If i wanted help I'm i'd ask. What makes his way right and mine wrong? I know what im doing.
Exactly. Returning a dropped wallet or letting someone know they have a headlight out is objectively helpful. Presuming you have great fitness advice to offer and that everyone should want to hear it even when they haven't asked, is not. Especially if you're not a professional yourself. It's pretty condescending to assume that someone is doing something incorrectly just because they don't do it the way you do.
Also, I think women should be able to wear whatever clothes and makeup they want without guys assuming it's an invitation to hit on them.27 -
But I didn't drop anything and I didn't need help.
I understand. But you asked if it's ok giving advice to strangers, so i answered that. Sometimes it IS appropriate to help.. or point them to a website where they can get help. When done respectfully, you'd be surprised how grateful some people are.
By the way, since many trainers don't know the finer points of barbell squats.. and kinesiology in general.. if someone questioned my form, i would video myself squatting and upload it to Reddit or here for other trainers to review.6 -
Cherimoose wrote: »OP - If you want to deter guys from hitting on you, wear large headphones, and wear non-sexy clothes and no makeup.
Tone is sometimes difficult to interpret so am really hoping that I have somehow missed the underlying kidding in this...19 -
Cherimoose wrote: »OP - If you want to deter guys from hitting on you, wear large headphones, and wear non-sexy clothes and no makeup.
Yes, it's occasionally appropriate to help others.. like the wandering newbie who's using machines upside down and there's no staff to help. It's not much different than telling someone they dropped something from their wallet, telling a driver their headlights are off, asking a lost tourist if they need help, etc.
Wouldn't it be nice if something that simple would work? Sadly, jerk-i-tude is not always just about actual attraction of a rational nature. Sometimes, it's about manipulation and dominance and showing off.
As a 50-something-year-old woman (not in a gym, but on the sidewalk outside one), I had a group of 20-something men tell me what they wanted me to do to them, and what they wanted to do to me . . . and trust me, it wasn't "bake them oatmeal cookies" or "help me paint my shabby kitchen". I was obese at the time, bundled up in Winter clothes, no makeup, not in any way cute (not my jam), just walking down a sidewalk.
Striving to be less attractive might put off rational people who'd be inclined to flirt. It will have no effect on jerks who want to dominate, intimidate, manipulate, or show off to their equally Neanderthal buddies.29 -
Cherimoose wrote: »OP - If you want to deter guys from hitting on you, wear large headphones, and wear non-sexy clothes and no makeup.
This might be one of those times not to give advice. Then again, I expect adults to be able to behave themselves and don't take kindly when they show an inability to respect boundries (assuming these are people without any neurological issues that would affect that).14 -
I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
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Cherimoose wrote: »OP - If you want to deter guys from hitting on you, wear large headphones, and wear non-sexy clothes and no makeup.
Yes, it's occasionally appropriate to help others.. like the wandering newbie who's using machines upside down and there's no staff to help. It's not much different than telling someone they dropped something from their wallet, telling a driver their headlights are off, asking a lost tourist if they need help, etc.
I find it kind of repugnant that you are automatically assuming that the OP wears 'sexy' clothes and makeup at the gym.21 -
Thought of this thread in the gym the other day.....
Two very tall and young guys training in what a cynic might regard as a typical way for their demographic (haphazard, awful form, talking a load of cobblers but very enthusiastic) and a petite, young, very attractive female wearing shorts and a crop top.
Female approaches one of the young guys who was making a real mess of deadlifting and gave some good advice which he was happy to take and implement. She isn't a PT but does work at the gym and does know how to lift.
Turns out not all men are diminutives of Richard, women and men with a shared interest can actually converse in a polite way and helpful manner without ego or sex getting in the way.
PS - as a father of a young and attractive woman who has to deal with alcohol fuelled comments about how she looks or dresses please can we stop suggesting it's the fault of the woman?42 -
MsHarryWinston wrote: »
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
Well said! I completely agree.14 -
MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
Also, I am here to tell you that looking like crap actually makes you MORE likely to be bothered. Because it marks you out as possibly lacking in confidence, possibly sufficiently unattractive and desperate that you’ll accept even bad forms of attention, and generally signals that you may be good ‘prey’.
I got WAY more unwanted attention as a miserable obese person than I do as a fit, cheerful and well-dressed normal-weight person.23 -
MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
Also, I am here to tell you that looking like crap actually makes you MORE likely to be bothered. Because it marks you out as possibly lacking in confidence, possibly sufficiently unattractive and desperate that you’ll accept even bad forms of attention, and generally signals that you may be good ‘prey’.
I got WAY more unwanted attention as a miserable obese person than I do as a fit, cheerful and well-dressed normal-weight person.
This is so true! It’s like you can’t win. I would say that that one could track the “caliber” of treatment based on appearance, but that’s a whole other sociological experiment.
Oh, and to the post above about the cute girl approaching the guys. I’m not quite sure how to put this except to say, it’s not the same thing. There tends to be a completely different energy between the two scenarios.11 -
MsHarryWinston wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
Also, I am here to tell you that looking like crap actually makes you MORE likely to be bothered. Because it marks you out as possibly lacking in confidence, possibly sufficiently unattractive and desperate that you’ll accept even bad forms of attention, and generally signals that you may be good ‘prey’.
I got WAY more unwanted attention as a miserable obese person than I do as a fit, cheerful and well-dressed normal-weight person.
This is so true! It’s like you can’t win. I would say that that one could track the “caliber” of treatment based on appearance, but that’s a whole other sociological experiment.
Oh, and to the post above about the cute girl approaching the guys. I’m not quite sure how to put this except to say, it’s not the same thing. There tends to be a completely different energy between the two scenarios.
I didn't say or suggest it was the same thing.
Just a real life example of two people not sterotypes. Intended as an uplifting example as it happens.
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MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.15 -
MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
That's an absolutely key point. It really has bleepin' little to do with us as female humans, or our behavior in any way, in the overwhelming majority of cases, when the bad behavior of the other human(s) is extreme. (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/powerful-art-exhibit-powerfully-answers-the-question-what-were-you-wearing_n_59baddd2e4b02da0e1405d2a)
Just FTR, I'm also not too keen on the backhand: That we're of course much less attractive if we dress reasonably/modestly for whatever we're doing, and don't put on makeup. It's a insult/affront twofer.15 -
MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
It's no different than suggesting that joggers can reduce the chance of being hit by a car by wearing neon colors instead of dark clothes. Are joggers to blame for bad driving? Of course not. Should motorists drive better? In a perfect world, they would. But they're obviously not going to change any time soon, so we might as well do something to prevent getting hit - yes?
Males are always going to approach in public spaces. It's hard-wired into them due to testosterone and won't change in the near future, so i gave practical tips to reduce how many guys will approach in gyms. It sucks that you have to, but fortunately countless women workout in low-key clothing and survive the ordeal. Same with ugly over-the-ear headphones.4 -
Cherimoose wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
It's no different than suggesting that joggers can reduce the chance of being hit by a car by wearing neon colors instead of dark clothes. Are joggers to blame for bad driving? Of course not. Should motorists drive better? In a perfect world, they would. But they're obviously not going to change any time soon, so we might as well do something to prevent getting hit - yes?
It’s completely different, unless you think drivers set out with the aim of hitting a jogger on purpose, then using the excuse that they were wearing dark coloured clothing so couldn’t be seen.36 -
Cherimoose wrote: »Males are always going to approach in public spaces. It's hard-wired into them due to testosterone and won't change in the near future, so i gave practical tips to reduce how many guys will approach in gyms. It sucks that you have to, but fortunately countless women workout in low-key clothing and survive the ordeal. Same with ugly over-the-ear headphones.
Could not have hit that disagree button any harder. It's not unavoidable; it's unacceptable behavior that's been excused, and rationalized for too long.36 -
MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.
Ok, first off I am not into hitting on women at the gym. Not my "thing" honestly. Only time I even speak to anyone is if I know them or are interested in a lift or routine they are doing. Not going to "victim" blame here, but, if I came into the gym in a pair of daisy duke shorts and 1/2 t-shirt, I might expect a little attention. Wanted or unwanted. IMHO, the problem has less to do with wants, but the hard wiring of our brains. Now the person giving the unwanted "attention", has the ability to fight their urges, but it goes against our history. When we look at equal rights, outside of small populations around the world, the timeline of treatment is just a blink in our 1million year history. Well, the person who dressed a certain way may not have any intention of getting attention, but the subconscious is a real kitten. Sometimes it will cause us to do things we don't intend to. Nether the gal who wears the skin tight cloths with her breast hanging out, or the guy wearing the skin tight sleeveless t-shirt may intend to get attention. They may think, I feel more comfortable in this and maybe they do, but subconsciously most people are wired to try and attract the opposite sex or same sex.... according to their preference.8 -
OP, I think you handled it beautifully. When I read the comment my advice was going to be, “Thanks, I already have a trainer and it’s not you,” and that’s pretty much what you said.
Also, for the rest of the people discussing gym attire - the OP in my opinion would be beautiful in a burlap sack wearing a facial mask. The only way for her to avoid attracting attention would be to stay home, and I sure hope none of you are suggesting that. Also, if you are a man and your man brain insists that you flirt with attractive women you don’t know at all because reasons, the least you can do is not be patronizing about it.7 -
Cherimoose wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
Males are always going to approach in public spaces. It's hard-wired into them due to testosterone and won't change in the near future, so i gave practical tips to reduce how many guys will approach in gyms. It sucks that you have to, but fortunately countless women workout in low-key clothing and survive the ordeal. Same with ugly over-the-ear headphones.
Well if you believed that, and particularly for any men making that argument, what follows is that there should be mass castrations.
That said, testosterone absolutely does not work that way. The behaviors testosterone elicits are entirely dependent on both immediate context and cultural context. Give a bunch of Buddhist monks exogenous testosterone, and what you'll see is them trying to outdo each other in acts of generosity, not hitting on women at the mall.
Heck, the fact that gay men exist, have testosterone, and little interest in going up to women in that way should be a pretty quick example to make you question this belief.25 -
Cherimoose wrote: »Males are always going to approach in public spaces. It's hard-wired into them due to testosterone and won't change in the near future, so i gave practical tips to reduce how many guys will approach in gyms. It sucks that you have to, but fortunately countless women workout in low-key clothing and survive the ordeal. Same with ugly over-the-ear headphones.
Could not have hit that disagree button any harder. It's not unavoidable; it's unacceptable behavior that's been excused, and rationalized for too long.
Hit it right behind you! Totally agree.8 -
Cherimoose wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
It's no different than suggesting that joggers can reduce the chance of being hit by a car by wearing neon colors instead of dark clothes. Are joggers to blame for bad driving? Of course not. Should motorists drive better? In a perfect world, they would. But they're obviously not going to change any time soon, so we might as well do something to prevent getting hit - yes?
Males are always going to approach in public spaces. It's hard-wired into them due to testosterone and won't change in the near future, so i gave practical tips to reduce how many guys will approach in gyms. It sucks that you have to, but fortunately countless women workout in low-key clothing and survive the ordeal. Same with ugly over-the-ear headphones.
No.15 -
MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.
I don't see it as victim blaming but as risk mitigation.
Cars were broken into at a dog park I used to attend and staff put up signs saying to make sure cars were locked and valuables not in sight. This is not victim blaming - it's tips for reducing the risk of an unpleasant event.
Should thieves break into cars? No.
Should car owners make it less attractive for thieves? Yes.7
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