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Unwanted advice at gym

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  • psychod787psychod787 Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member
    Cherimoose wrote: »
    I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
    Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.


    Males are always going to approach in public spaces. It's hard-wired into them due to testosterone and won't change in the near future, so i gave practical tips to reduce how many guys will approach in gyms. It sucks that you have to, but fortunately countless women workout in low-key clothing and survive the ordeal. Same with ugly over-the-ear headphones.

    Well if you believed that, and particularly for any men making that argument, what follows is that there should be mass castrations.
    That said, testosterone absolutely does not work that way. The behaviors testosterone elicits are entirely dependent on both immediate context and cultural context. Give a bunch of Buddhist monks exogenous testosterone, and what you'll see is them trying to outdo each other in acts of generosity, not hitting on women at the mall.

    Heck, the fact that gay men exist, have testosterone, and little interest in going up to women in that way should be a pretty quick example to make you question this belief.

    I disagree a bit here. Gay guys can be just as aggressive with their preferred sex as anyone. Oh, have you ever dealt with a woman on high amounts of testosterone? I have, they can be very aggressive in that nature.
  • psychod787psychod787 Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member
    well, sometimes when I yell, yes! LOL
  • psychod787psychod787 Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    COGypsy wrote: »
    I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”

    Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.

    It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.

    Ok, first off I am not into hitting on women at the gym. Not my "thing" honestly. Only time I even speak to anyone is if I know them or are interested in a lift or routine they are doing. Not going to "victim" blame here, but, if I came into the gym in a pair of daisy duke shorts and 1/2 t-shirt, I might expect a little attention. Wanted or unwanted. IMHO, the problem has less to do with wants, but the hard wiring of our brains. Now the person giving the unwanted "attention", has the ability to fight their urges, but it goes against our history. When we look at equal rights, outside of small populations around the world, the timeline of treatment is just a blink in our 1million year history. Well, the person who dressed a certain way may not have any intention of getting attention, but the subconscious is a real kitten. Sometimes it will cause us to do things we don't intend to. Nether the gal who wears the skin tight cloths with her breast hanging out, or the guy wearing the skin tight sleeveless t-shirt may intend to get attention. They may think, I feel more comfortable in this and maybe they do, but subconsciously most people are wired to try and attract the opposite sex or same sex.... according to their preference.

    Wild and uncontrollable hormone-fed thought? OK, whatever.

    Rude behavior? Unempathetic? Continued after clear "no"? That's on the perpetrator. No matter how the victim dressed.

    Controlling inappropriate impulses is part of the definition of "sane adult".

    Not hormone fed directly. More of differences in the brain and millions of years of evolution. There is some evidence that high amounts of testosterone while a baby is in the uterus does affect the way the brain is formed. As I mentioned, we have the ability as humans to NOT follow our impulses. Though, what we do has to be looked at in context. We humans do certain things subconsciously. Oh I don't blame the person getting bothered at all for the annoyance. The NO should have been enough to tell him or her to get lost. Though all I was stating WAS sometimes we dress a certain way or whatever for reasons we think we understand, but somethings are hardwired to do things. Human woman don't go into heat like many other species do. So, back in the pre cave days, how was a male of our species supposed to know if she was receptive? Subtle ques. Unfortunately in a time when this is no longer needed, they still exist. Maybe IF the human species makes it another million years these things will be bred out.
  • psychod787psychod787 Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    COGypsy wrote: »
    I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”

    Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.

    It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.

    Ok, first off I am not into hitting on women at the gym. Not my "thing" honestly. Only time I even speak to anyone is if I know them or are interested in a lift or routine they are doing. Not going to "victim" blame here, but, if I came into the gym in a pair of daisy duke shorts and 1/2 t-shirt, I might expect a little attention. Wanted or unwanted. IMHO, the problem has less to do with wants, but the hard wiring of our brains. Now the person giving the unwanted "attention", has the ability to fight their urges, but it goes against our history. When we look at equal rights, outside of small populations around the world, the timeline of treatment is just a blink in our 1million year history. Well, the person who dressed a certain way may not have any intention of getting attention, but the subconscious is a real kitten. Sometimes it will cause us to do things we don't intend to. Nether the gal who wears the skin tight cloths with her breast hanging out, or the guy wearing the skin tight sleeveless t-shirt may intend to get attention. They may think, I feel more comfortable in this and maybe they do, but subconsciously most people are wired to try and attract the opposite sex or same sex.... according to their preference.

    Wild and uncontrollable hormone-fed thought? OK, whatever.

    Rude behavior? Unempathetic? Continued after clear "no"? That's on the perpetrator. No matter how the victim dressed.

    Controlling inappropriate impulses is part of the definition of "sane adult".

    Not hormone fed directly. More of differences in the brain and millions of years of evolution. There is some evidence that high amounts of testosterone while a baby is in the uterus does affect the way the brain is formed. As I mentioned, we have the ability as humans to NOT follow our impulses. Though, what we do has to be looked at in context. We humans do certain things subconsciously. Oh I don't blame the person getting bothered at all for the annoyance. The NO should have been enough to tell him or her to get lost. Though all I was stating WAS sometimes we dress a certain way or whatever for reasons we think we understand, but somethings are hardwired to do things. Human woman don't go into heat like many other species do. So, back in the pre cave days, how was a male of our species supposed to know if she was receptive? Subtle ques. Unfortunately in a time when this is no longer needed, they still exist. Maybe IF the human species makes it another million years these things will be bred out.

    Y'all can control behavior. Choose to.

    Do you think we don't have hormones and impulses? <snort>

    ohh ms. ann. I worked with 90% women for YEARS and can tell you y'all can be just as bad as any man. I've seen it from both directions. I have also had the privilege of dealing with several women going through a transgender procedure. Going from female to male. When some of them are given the hormone therapy, they can become quite aggressive in all things.
  • psychod787psychod787 Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    COGypsy wrote: »
    I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”

    Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.

    It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.

    Ok, first off I am not into hitting on women at the gym. Not my "thing" honestly. Only time I even speak to anyone is if I know them or are interested in a lift or routine they are doing. Not going to "victim" blame here, but, if I came into the gym in a pair of daisy duke shorts and 1/2 t-shirt, I might expect a little attention. Wanted or unwanted. IMHO, the problem has less to do with wants, but the hard wiring of our brains. Now the person giving the unwanted "attention", has the ability to fight their urges, but it goes against our history. When we look at equal rights, outside of small populations around the world, the timeline of treatment is just a blink in our 1million year history. Well, the person who dressed a certain way may not have any intention of getting attention, but the subconscious is a real kitten. Sometimes it will cause us to do things we don't intend to. Nether the gal who wears the skin tight cloths with her breast hanging out, or the guy wearing the skin tight sleeveless t-shirt may intend to get attention. They may think, I feel more comfortable in this and maybe they do, but subconsciously most people are wired to try and attract the opposite sex or same sex.... according to their preference.

    Wild and uncontrollable hormone-fed thought? OK, whatever.

    Rude behavior? Unempathetic? Continued after clear "no"? That's on the perpetrator. No matter how the victim dressed.

    Controlling inappropriate impulses is part of the definition of "sane adult".

    Not hormone fed directly. More of differences in the brain and millions of years of evolution. There is some evidence that high amounts of testosterone while a baby is in the uterus does affect the way the brain is formed. As I mentioned, we have the ability as humans to NOT follow our impulses. Though, what we do has to be looked at in context. We humans do certain things subconsciously. Oh I don't blame the person getting bothered at all for the annoyance. The NO should have been enough to tell him or her to get lost. Though all I was stating WAS sometimes we dress a certain way or whatever for reasons we think we understand, but somethings are hardwired to do things. Human woman don't go into heat like many other species do. So, back in the pre cave days, how was a male of our species supposed to know if she was receptive? Subtle ques. Unfortunately in a time when this is no longer needed, they still exist. Maybe IF the human species makes it another million years these things will be bred out.

    Y'all can control behavior. Choose to.

    Do you think we don't have hormones and impulses? <snort>

    yes last thoughts on the hormone matter. Estrogen is a balance to testosterone. When men go on steroids, they will often take a estrogen blocker when they come off because their bodies are no longer producing test properly. If they don't, they are prone to man boobs and uhhhh emotional issues. When women go through the "change" of life, their bodies do not produce as much estrogen. So, many get the uhh , "granny" beards we see. Can also tell you from first hand experience working with "cute" little old ladies, they can be HIGHLY sexually aggressive. I have been "touched" and propositioned more times than I like to remember. Also, when I was large I had high test, almost 1200. Also had estrogen of 400 or so. The estrogen was blocking my test. So i had well, "male" problems at times then. No shame in admitting that now. Cleared those up. LOL
  • psychod787psychod787 Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    COGypsy wrote: »
    I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”

    Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.

    It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.

    Ok, first off I am not into hitting on women at the gym. Not my "thing" honestly. Only time I even speak to anyone is if I know them or are interested in a lift or routine they are doing. Not going to "victim" blame here, but, if I came into the gym in a pair of daisy duke shorts and 1/2 t-shirt, I might expect a little attention. Wanted or unwanted. IMHO, the problem has less to do with wants, but the hard wiring of our brains. Now the person giving the unwanted "attention", has the ability to fight their urges, but it goes against our history. When we look at equal rights, outside of small populations around the world, the timeline of treatment is just a blink in our 1million year history. Well, the person who dressed a certain way may not have any intention of getting attention, but the subconscious is a real kitten. Sometimes it will cause us to do things we don't intend to. Nether the gal who wears the skin tight cloths with her breast hanging out, or the guy wearing the skin tight sleeveless t-shirt may intend to get attention. They may think, I feel more comfortable in this and maybe they do, but subconsciously most people are wired to try and attract the opposite sex or same sex.... according to their preference.

    Wild and uncontrollable hormone-fed thought? OK, whatever.

    Rude behavior? Unempathetic? Continued after clear "no"? That's on the perpetrator. No matter how the victim dressed.

    Controlling inappropriate impulses is part of the definition of "sane adult".

    Not hormone fed directly. More of differences in the brain and millions of years of evolution. There is some evidence that high amounts of testosterone while a baby is in the uterus does affect the way the brain is formed. As I mentioned, we have the ability as humans to NOT follow our impulses. Though, what we do has to be looked at in context. We humans do certain things subconsciously. Oh I don't blame the person getting bothered at all for the annoyance. The NO should have been enough to tell him or her to get lost. Though all I was stating WAS sometimes we dress a certain way or whatever for reasons we think we understand, but somethings are hardwired to do things. Human woman don't go into heat like many other species do. So, back in the pre cave days, how was a male of our species supposed to know if she was receptive? Subtle ques. Unfortunately in a time when this is no longer needed, they still exist. Maybe IF the human species makes it another million years these things will be bred out.

    Y'all can control behavior. Choose to.

    Do you think we don't have hormones and impulses? <snort>

    ohh ms. ann. I worked with 90% women for YEARS and can tell you y'all can be just as bad as any man. I've seen it from both directions. I have also had the privilege of dealing with several women going through a transgender procedure. Going from female to male. When some of them are given the hormone therapy, they can become quite aggressive in all things.

    So there are a lot of things going on here including the spreading of misinformation. Additionally, the people you were working with were not women, they were men (given that you said they were "going from female to male". If you want more information on the effect of testosterone on transmen here are some links:
    https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-testosterone-hormone-therapy
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30999214

    not spreading scaring, in fact I fully support anyone being who they want to be. Male, female, straight, gay, pan. whatever, but when you have worked with people for a while and then they are given hormones that change them and now you notice tendencies to be more aggressive. How is that scare tactics? Its simply an N=1 observation. yes, one of the things I grew up with were transgender was a choice. I no longer believe that. I think that people are born a certain way. The "decision" is not a "decision". They are physically female, but in the brain. I mean the actual brain they are male. I actually had the fortitude to talk to several of the gentleman about what it was like growing up. They told me that from a young age they felt different than what they were being told. They felt ashamed they were attracted to women, wanted to wear mens cloths...ect. The area I am in is in the "bible" belt. So, when I say I got their life story I did. Because, I was curious about how things worked. One of them was nice enough to show me some research on the brains of SOME transgenders actually look more Male than female.
  • psychod787psychod787 Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member Member, Premium Posts: 3,882 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    COGypsy wrote: »
    I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”

    Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.

    It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.

    Ok, first off I am not into hitting on women at the gym. Not my "thing" honestly. Only time I even speak to anyone is if I know them or are interested in a lift or routine they are doing. Not going to "victim" blame here, but, if I came into the gym in a pair of daisy duke shorts and 1/2 t-shirt, I might expect a little attention. Wanted or unwanted. IMHO, the problem has less to do with wants, but the hard wiring of our brains. Now the person giving the unwanted "attention", has the ability to fight their urges, but it goes against our history. When we look at equal rights, outside of small populations around the world, the timeline of treatment is just a blink in our 1million year history. Well, the person who dressed a certain way may not have any intention of getting attention, but the subconscious is a real kitten. Sometimes it will cause us to do things we don't intend to. Nether the gal who wears the skin tight cloths with her breast hanging out, or the guy wearing the skin tight sleeveless t-shirt may intend to get attention. They may think, I feel more comfortable in this and maybe they do, but subconsciously most people are wired to try and attract the opposite sex or same sex.... according to their preference.

    Wild and uncontrollable hormone-fed thought? OK, whatever.

    Rude behavior? Unempathetic? Continued after clear "no"? That's on the perpetrator. No matter how the victim dressed.

    Controlling inappropriate impulses is part of the definition of "sane adult".

    Not hormone fed directly. More of differences in the brain and millions of years of evolution. There is some evidence that high amounts of testosterone while a baby is in the uterus does affect the way the brain is formed. As I mentioned, we have the ability as humans to NOT follow our impulses. Though, what we do has to be looked at in context. We humans do certain things subconsciously. Oh I don't blame the person getting bothered at all for the annoyance. The NO should have been enough to tell him or her to get lost. Though all I was stating WAS sometimes we dress a certain way or whatever for reasons we think we understand, but somethings are hardwired to do things. Human woman don't go into heat like many other species do. So, back in the pre cave days, how was a male of our species supposed to know if she was receptive? Subtle ques. Unfortunately in a time when this is no longer needed, they still exist. Maybe IF the human species makes it another million years these things will be bred out.

    Y'all can control behavior. Choose to.

    Do you think we don't have hormones and impulses? <snort>

    ohh ms. ann. I worked with 90% women for YEARS and can tell you y'all can be just as bad as any man. I've seen it from both directions. I have also had the privilege of dealing with several women going through a transgender procedure. Going from female to male. When some of them are given the hormone therapy, they can become quite aggressive in all things.

    And yet . . . I know dozens of men and women - people whom I have every reason to suspect are hormonally normal - and they never assault or harass others. Most people don't. It's a question of behavior.

    Those are excuses, period. Lame ones.

    P.S. In the overwhelming majority of my posts here on this thread, I have not referenced the problem as "men", rather as harassers and victims. Just pointing that out.

    P.P.S. I can understand that someone undergoing a hormonal transition (natural or medically induced) might experience difficulties of adjustment. It doesn't let them off the hook for behaving like a civilized, decent human.

    Oh I am all about being who you are. What I am going with, is our brains are hardwired a certain way. Sometimes we dont understand why we do a thing or feel a certain way. Also that testosterone, or lack, can make people act much differently. Does not make an excuse for being an "@ss&quot;. I will read the articles. Always love to expand my knowledge base.
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