Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Unwanted advice at gym
Replies
-
lynn_glenmont wrote: »
Half of all internet debates would shut down were it not for that tiny bit of misplaced context
I actually read everything to see why it's taking off the way it did and all I can think is "minefield". One wrong comment and BOOM!MsHarryWinston wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
Also, I am here to tell you that looking like crap actually makes you MORE likely to be bothered. Because it marks you out as possibly lacking in confidence, possibly sufficiently unattractive and desperate that you’ll accept even bad forms of attention, and generally signals that you may be good ‘prey’.
I got WAY more unwanted attention as a miserable obese person than I do as a fit, cheerful and well-dressed normal-weight person.
This is so true! It’s like you can’t win. I would say that that one could track the “caliber” of treatment based on appearance, but that’s a whole other sociological experiment.
Oh, and to the post above about the cute girl approaching the guys. I’m not quite sure how to put this except to say, it’s not the same thing. There tends to be a completely different energy between the two scenarios.
I didn't say or suggest it was the same thing.
Just a real life example of two people not sterotypes. Intended as an uplifting example as it happens.
Oh, gotcha! Never mind then, lol, my bad.
No problem.
This thread has since become even more depressing!
Must tell my daughter that next time a customer comments on the size of her breasts that apparently the correct response isn't to confront their behaviour and throw them out of the pub it's for her to wear a sack and sympathise that the bloke is having a bad hormone day.....
All I wanted to say after reading all the comments is that sometimes it's very easy to attribute views/thoughts/motives etc, in person, much less over the web. That said, There's very little I'm "hardwired" to do, although I'm glad those circuits are in place. I do not have to minimize anyone by my words or actions, and I don't have to tolerate it either.
My point is, if I decide to take exception to something anyone says or does to me, it isn't because of "who" they are, or "how" they are, or what gender they are or perceive themselves as being or anything else other than that they're probably being a jerk at the moment.
It's ridiculous that anyone should have to walk on eggshells or modify their behavior just to feel safe and/or live their lives as fully as possible.
I'm doing the same and see the same reaction although it's not even the wrong comment. Confirmation bias and projection on display.
It's one comment removed from context that fits a strawman construction in the mind of the outraged. Giving them license and justification to unleash wrath onto the strawman. Strawmen are fairly easy to deal with though. But a strawman handing out red herring is a bit tougher lol.
It's born out of resentment and envy. Easily identified, but impossible to deal with as those mired in such a state are in a prison of their own making.
"One reason why so many people are unhappy, not knowing why, is that they have burdened their minds with resentments. These evil thoughts pile right on top of happier and generous ones and smother them so that they never get expression. Resentments are a form of hate.... What a dearth of good will and co-operation there are among human beings and nations! What a world this would be if we all worked together, and as a popular diplomat recently expressed it-played together!" George Matthew Adams
Don't know if you're being intentionally vague here, but I wonder whether you think this quote applies to people who believe that women owe them their time, their attention, their company, etc., regardless of what the women want, and who believe if they're not getting the sex, it's because women are all b*****s and the world owes them better?
Or do you think it applies to women who are "burdening their minds with resentments" about not being able to just live their lives without men thinking they owe them something 20 times a day?
Nope.
...and nope.
A comment on how the mind works - reading into statements and seeing what people want to see, rather than what was stated.
But the problem is that you're being so vague that the reader has no choice but to guess as to what you mean. Even in rejecting my guesses, you make no attempt to point me to your real meaning.2 -
unstableunicorn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »unstableunicorn wrote: »How the heck did a thread about gym etiquette devolve to people trying to defend harassment and assault?
By having the details of the incident in the OP involve a lot more than just gym etiquette. What part of he wouldn't leave her alone after she said she didn't need help and he tried to put her in the wrong to force her to accept his company are you missing?
You need to dial it waaaaaaaay back. I read the entire thing and was asking rhetorically to make a point to the defensive posters. I’m well aware that the guy the OP encountered was behaving like a predator.
OK. It sounded like a literal question, not a rhetorical one to me.1 -
Maybe if the gym instructors paid more attention than just coasting by people wouldnt want to take it upon themselves. I would never give unsolicited advice and would hate to receive it but I do see people doing some shocking stuff in the gym. I saw one man fall off the treadmill the other day and not a instructor for miles. God forbid if he had seriously hurt his self3
-
I'm just going to join Planet Fitness! Dont they have "safe zones" ?5
-
psychod787 wrote: »I'm just going to join Planet Fitness! Dont they have "safe zones" ?
I actually think it would be brilliant if every time a guy came up with unsolicited advice or unwanted conversation that women at Plant Fitness would tap the Lunk Alarm. I'd find it a better use than hitting it because someone puts some effort into a lift.21 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »I'm just going to join Planet Fitness! Dont they have "safe zones" ?
I actually think it would be brilliant if every time a guy came up with unsolicited advice or unwanted conversation that women at Plant Fitness would tap the Lunk Alarm. I'd find it a better use than hitting it because someone puts some effort into a lift.
I'm strangely ok with it.2 -
So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.
https://youtu.be/q0MOVX-A3R4 2 -
So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.https://youtu.be/q0MOVX-A3R4
Nope. Not my business and I don't particularly like being sued. 🤷🏼♀️6 -
So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.
Well, there is some weird looking stuff going on there. But just because someone is using a machine in an unconventional way does not necessarily mean they are following an unsafe practice. The only one where I would feel the need to say something is to the man at the end hogging a machine while he plays games on his phone.
5 -
So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.https://youtu.be/q0MOVX-A3R4
NOPE! That's what the staff gets paid $8 an hour for....2 -
Sure thing peeps.1
-
So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.https://youtu.be/q0MOVX-A3R4
What kind of certification, professional training and/or professional liability insurance do you have to be giving advice (regardless of how stupid something looks in your opinion)?3 -
So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.https://youtu.be/q0MOVX-A3R4
No, I would say something to someone on staff in some cases though.5 -
So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.https://youtu.be/q0MOVX-A3R4
No, I would say something to someone on staff in some cases though.
That's fair. Of course at Planet Fitness probably no certified/insured individuals to give exercise advice on the staff.1 -
SnifterPug wrote: »So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.
Well, there is some weird looking stuff going on there. But just because someone is using a machine in an unconventional way does not necessarily mean they are following an unsafe practice. The only one where I would feel the need to say something is to the man at the end hogging a machine while he plays games on his phone.
I was gonna say, as someone who frequently gets weird looks while using a Smith machine for weighted hip thrusts, I wouldn’t want to assume. Some of the people in the video doing the more odd and idiotic things probably saw some YouTube trainer recommending it as an accessory.
I have said something once to a couple of clearly brand new to the gym teenage boys who were having a deadlift contest and pulling with completely rounded backs, because it was painful just watching them. I tried to keep it casual and friendly, “Hey keep an eye on your form, don’t pull with your back,” and they asked me for more information. But if they had said, “Back off, lady,” I would have accepted that considering I was butting in.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.https://youtu.be/q0MOVX-A3R4
No, I would say something to someone on staff in some cases though.
That's fair. Of course at Planet Fitness probably no certified/insured individuals to give exercise advice on the staff.
I wouldn't imagine they'd have many certified people, but if someone were to get injured due to poor advice from the staff I could see it falling under the liability agreement that was signed upon joining Planet Fitness.3 -
unstableunicorn wrote: »How the heck did a thread about gym etiquette devolve to people trying to defend harassment and assault?
No one is defending harassment and assault. Some of us are talking about risk mitigation:Cherimoose wrote: »
It's completely and utterly different than joggers and cyclists being advised to wear neon and have lights when it's dark. That's an issue of a driver being physically able to see a runner or cyclist in time to not hit them. It's about the ability to see someone and have enough time to slow down and/or move over.Cherimoose wrote: »It's no different than suggesting that joggers can reduce the chance of being hit by a car by wearing neon colors instead of dark clothes. Are joggers to blame for bad driving? Of course not. Should motorists drive better? In a perfect world, they would. But they're obviously not going to change any time soon, so we might as well do something to prevent getting hit - yes?
Males are always going to approach in public spaces. It's hard-wired into them due to testosterone and won't change in the near future, so i gave practical tips to reduce how many guys will approach in gyms. It sucks that you have to, but fortunately countless women workout in low-key clothing and survive the ordeal. Same with ugly over-the-ear headphones.
You're taking the analogy too literally. It's simply an example where the other party can be at fault, yet you still have some control over the outcome.
Another example - people often wear headphones at the gym to deter chatterboxes (of any gender) from talking to them and slowing their workous. Yes, chatterboxes should control themselves, and yes, people shouldn't have to wear headphones to avoid them.. but griping about how things "should" be and who's to blame is not an actionable solution that will make your next workout better. Headphones are. Likewise, wearing low-key clothes is likely to reduce how many guys talk to you at your next workout compared to wearing neon pink booty shorts with "Juicy" on the back. At least from what i've seen at gyms.2 -
I used to do the exercises my brother in law showed me. Exactly how he showed me. Hes an amateur body builder. It really annoyed me when I got critiqued at the gym.1
-
lynn_glenmont wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
It's not the step before, it's straight up victim blaming.
I don't see it as victim blaming but as risk mitigation.
Cars were broken into at a dog park I used to attend and staff put up signs saying to make sure cars were locked and valuables not in sight. This is not victim blaming - it's tips for reducing the risk of an unpleasant event.
Should thieves break into cars? No.
Should car owners make it less attractive for thieves? Yes.
No. Women are not cars. And there's always another excuse to be made about how a woman's dress, behavior, location, lack of a companion, etc., etc., made her a target. Down this path lies confining women to their homes.
Alright, here's the analogy I was going to go with first:
College women will reduce their risk of sexual assault if they don't binge drink.
Apparently I need to make it clear that I am not defending sexual assault, so here that is, in bold.
Never binge drinking is not going to reduce the risk to zero, but being incapacitated by alcohol will increase that risk quite a bit.
I would prefer a world in which no one who was incapacitated by alcohol was assaulted, but since that is not the world we live in, people need to take precautions. (And men shouldn't binge drink either.)
I remember this sort of thing being taught to me when I was a Girl Scout in the 70s:
I actually read everything to see why it's taking off the way it did and all I can think is "minefield". One wrong comment and BOOM!MsHarryWinston wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »I meeean... the whole “no makeup and non-sexy” clothes advice is the step before victim blaming. “Of course you’re going to get hit on, look at what you’re wearing.” “They can’t help it, look at how you dress.”
Can we please stop putting the responsibility for men’s behaviors on women and their bodies? We shouldn’t have to walk around looking (and possibly feeling as a result) like crap out of fear of being bothered.
Also, I am here to tell you that looking like crap actually makes you MORE likely to be bothered. Because it marks you out as possibly lacking in confidence, possibly sufficiently unattractive and desperate that you’ll accept even bad forms of attention, and generally signals that you may be good ‘prey’.
I got WAY more unwanted attention as a miserable obese person than I do as a fit, cheerful and well-dressed normal-weight person.
This is so true! It’s like you can’t win. I would say that that one could track the “caliber” of treatment based on appearance, but that’s a whole other sociological experiment.
Oh, and to the post above about the cute girl approaching the guys. I’m not quite sure how to put this except to say, it’s not the same thing. There tends to be a completely different energy between the two scenarios.
I didn't say or suggest it was the same thing.
Just a real life example of two people not sterotypes. Intended as an uplifting example as it happens.
Oh, gotcha! Never mind then, lol, my bad.
No problem.
This thread has since become even more depressing!
Must tell my daughter that next time a customer comments on the size of her breasts that apparently the correct response isn't to confront their behaviour and throw them out of the pub it's for her to wear a sack and sympathise that the bloke is having a bad hormone day.....
All I wanted to say after reading all the comments is that sometimes it's very easy to attribute views/thoughts/motives etc, in person, much less over the web. That said, There's very little I'm "hardwired" to do, although I'm glad those circuits are in place. I do not have to minimize anyone by my words or actions, and I don't have to tolerate it either.
My point is, if I decide to take exception to something anyone says or does to me, it isn't because of "who" they are, or "how" they are, or what gender they are or perceive themselves as being or anything else other than that they're probably being a jerk at the moment.
It's ridiculous that anyone should have to walk on eggshells or modify their behavior just to feel safe and/or live their lives as fully as possible.
Clearly you aren't a woman Awareness of my own safety impacts nearly every decision I make. Where, when, with whom and the route I take when I walk; whether I wait for friends in front of the restaurant or in my car; the clothes I wear; the shoes I wear; where I park; who I may casually speak to or make eye contact with; how I carry my keys; how I carry my bags...when I stop to think about it, it's quite a list, but really, it's just a fact of life.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »So no one would say anything to people who are using machines like this? K.https://youtu.be/q0MOVX-A3R4
What kind of certification, professional training and/or professional liability insurance do you have to be giving advice (regardless of how stupid something looks in your opinion)?
I’d ask if they were aware of how the machines are actually meant to be used. If they were meanfully doing it that way for their own reasons that they think are helping them, even if it looks crazy AF to me then I’d just be like ok cool and move on. But if they were actually not aware that they were doing it wrong and they asked, I’d show them how I would do it. I’d rather say something then them get hurt.1
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 389.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.1K Getting Started
- 259.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.3K Food and Nutrition
- 47.2K Recipes
- 232.1K Fitness and Exercise
- 359 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.4K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.4K Motivation and Support
- 7.7K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 2.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 748 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions