October 2019 Monthly Running Challenge

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  • polskagirl01
    polskagirl01 Posts: 2,024 Member
    edited October 2019
    IMO, though, most runners talk about hitting a "wall" at say mile 20 in the marathon or mile 10 in the half, and guess about where their long runs ended about? It might be a coincidence, but I am not so sure it is.

    I agree. For me it's a balancing act of "how close can I get to race distance without trashing my body before the race?"
    I frequently notice in long runs during the buildup that I feel ready to be done, right about where I stopped on my last long run.
  • Teresa502
    Teresa502 Posts: 1,861 Member
    edited October 2019
    Camaramandy648 wrote: »

    How was running in the rain? We had rain here yesterday too but I ran indoors. I wasn't sure what gear I would need or how to decrease my misery....

    It was good. I've found the hardest part for me is getting out of my car or house and getting started. After that I really don't notice it so much. As far as gear, it depends on the temps. A hat for sure to keep the rain out of my eyes. Yesterday, I also put a light rain jacket on over short sleeves. After a while the rain jacket was so wet that it soaked through and my shirt was also wet but starting out it was nice not to have the rain hitting my bare arms or bottom layer.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    polskagirl01 wrote: »
    IMO, though, most runners talk about hitting a "wall" at say mile 20 in the marathon or mile 10 in the half, and guess about where their long runs ended about? It might be a coincidence, but I am not so sure it is.

    I agree. For me it's a balancing act of "how close can I get to race distance without trashing my body before the race?"
    I frequently notice in long runs during the buildup that I feel ready to be done, right about where I stopped on my last long run.

    Yeah, which is why I do a 50k training plan for a Marathon now. The long-run in a 50k plan is 26 miles :)
  • eleanorhawkins
    eleanorhawkins Posts: 1,659 Member
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    polskagirl01 wrote: »
    IMO, though, most runners talk about hitting a "wall" at say mile 20 in the marathon or mile 10 in the half, and guess about where their long runs ended about? It might be a coincidence, but I am not so sure it is.

    I agree. For me it's a balancing act of "how close can I get to race distance without trashing my body before the race?"
    I frequently notice in long runs during the buildup that I feel ready to be done, right about where I stopped on my last long run.

    Yeah, which is why I do a 50k training plan for a Marathon now. The long-run in a 50k plan is 26 miles :)

    Hurries off to google for 25k plans :-)
  • Tramboman
    Tramboman Posts: 2,482 Member
    10-1 7k slow
    10-2 7k easy
    10-3 rest
    10-4 rest
    10-5 7k moderate
    10-6 7k easy
    10-7 rest
    10-8 7k moderate
    10-9 7k easy
    10-10 rest
    10-11 4k easy
    10-12 rest
    10-13 5k race
    10-14 rest
    10-15 4k slow
    10-16 7k slow
    10-17 rest

    October Total: 62k
    October Goal: 135k

    January Total: 131k
    February Total: 159.5k
    March Total: 183k
    April Total: 126k
    May Total: 128k
    June Total: 161.5k
    July Total: 151k
    August Total: 133k
    September Total: 135k

    2019 total: 1,308k / 811m

    Monthly average: 145.3k

    Next year when you pop in here claiming your December 2019 mileage, what accomplishments will you have made?
    Run at least 4 5k races. Completed 8-31
    Get under 30:00 and a PR for 5k.
    Average at least 135k per month, which would put me over 1,000 miles for the year.

    Run the Year Team: Five for Nineteen - Completed 9-28

    Scheduled rest day today. Since it's 45 degrees F and windy, there will be no golf. I thinks legs could use the rest day more than they need a run day.

    2019 Races:

    4-13 Shine the Light 5K - 31:12 chip time; First Place male 65 and older
    6-30 Strides for Starfish 5K - 31:34 chip time; 31/77 overall; second male 65 and older (no official category)
    7-27 Solon Home Days 5K - 31:11 chip time; 95/141 overall; 4/6 age group (male)
    8-31 Race for Freedom 5k - 31:39 chip time; 32:00 Garmin time; Third Place male 60 and older
    9-14 Gift of Life 5k - off the schedule; insufficient recovery time
    10-13 Haunted Hustle 5k - 31:22 chip time; First Place male 60 and older
  • Teresa502
    Teresa502 Posts: 1,861 Member
    katharmonic wrote: »
    Tomorrow I fly to Kansas City for the beginnings of the big I-35 Challenge weekend. I have like 3 different outfits for each race packed, and I am still worried about not having the right thing. The forecast is improving, but there is still rain predicted for early morning on Saturday - really hoping this goes away but I did order some disposable rain ponchos for standing around before the start at least.

    10/19/2019 I-35 Challenge KC Half Marathon, Kansas City MO
    10/20/2019 I-35 Challenge DSM Half Marathon, Des Moines, IA

    Good luck to you!
  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,840 Member
    Camaramandy648 wrote: »
    All right. I've been back at it for a few/ several weeks and I can feel myself getting stronger again. I've run several 5ks and one HM on accident (my fiance and I got lost as I was new to the area and he had never run anything in his life) but I haven't been as consistent as I once was for all the same reasons/ excuses as everyone else. Single mom, kids, one with special needs, etc. etc. But I've forced myself to make time for the gym, being healthy, learning, and running. Repeat.

    I happened upon a Ted talk about a guy who was a regular guy once and decided to run with his office mate. Now, a little later, the guy is an ultra-marathoner. This inspired me. I've been dreaming about running. It's all I can think about.

    Yesterday I happened upon a Ted talk about a woman named Debbie Gibson who ran her first marathon in Arizona - the Rock n Roll marathon. Now she's an ultra runner too.

    Of course this sent me on the path to read about the Rock N Roll marathon. I have family in Nashville so I decided I may as well do it. I've done much harder things in my life and have overcome so much more. The 20th mile will still not hold a candle to my darkest hours. It will be horrible and glorious but I think I can really finish it! It's six months away! I woke up already committed in my head and my heart to go for it, so I texted my big brother and my sisters to say, "This is what I'm doing and I'm telling you so that I will have a point of accountability and a sense of the reality of it."

    So here we go.

    I was reading about training plans - where to start, etc. I am running three times a week right now. The training plans conflict what you all are saying about having shorter long runs. The training plans seem intense. I am not too concerned about time - I am concerned about FINISHING WELL.

    As an aside - my right ankle has the throbbing feeling ... I don't know if it's an actual sprain - it's just sore with some throbbing. Not sure if I should attempt another run tonight?

    As a rule you shouldn’t run on things that hurt while you run. “Sore” can be okay if it’s not worsened while running.

    One note about the Rock & roll - they sell out! So if you are determined, go ahead and register!
  • hamsterwheel6
    hamsterwheel6 Posts: 544 Member
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Teresa502 wrote: »
    Camaramandy648 wrote: »

    How was running in the rain? We had rain here yesterday too but I ran indoors. I wasn't sure what gear I would need or how to decrease my misery....

    It was good. I've found the hardest part for me is getting out of my car or house and getting started. After that I really don't notice it so much.

    So true. IF I am running and it starts raining, I am fine. BUT If I am sitting in the house and looking out at the rain, I am like "ugh no way." Silliness.

    This. This is me too.
  • hamsterwheel6
    hamsterwheel6 Posts: 544 Member
    Camaramandy648 wrote: »
    All right. I've been back at it for a few/ several weeks and I can feel myself getting stronger again. I've run several 5ks and one HM on accident (my fiance and I got lost as I was new to the area and he had never run anything in his life) but I haven't been as consistent as I once was for all the same reasons/ excuses as everyone else. Single mom, kids, one with special needs, etc. etc. But I've forced myself to make time for the gym, being healthy, learning, and running. Repeat.

    I happened upon a Ted talk about a guy who was a regular guy once and decided to run with his office mate. Now, a little later, the guy is an ultra-marathoner. This inspired me. I've been dreaming about running. It's all I can think about.

    Yesterday I happened upon a Ted talk about a woman named Debbie Gibson who ran her first marathon in Arizona - the Rock n Roll marathon. Now she's an ultra runner too.

    Of course this sent me on the path to read about the Rock N Roll marathon. I have family in Nashville so I decided I may as well do it. I've done much harder things in my life and have overcome so much more. The 20th mile will still not hold a candle to my darkest hours. It will be horrible and glorious but I think I can really finish it! It's six months away! I woke up already committed in my head and my heart to go for it, so I texted my big brother and my sisters to say, "This is what I'm doing and I'm telling you so that I will have a point of accountability and a sense of the reality of it."

    So here we go.

    I was reading about training plans - where to start, etc. I am running three times a week right now. The training plans conflict what you all are saying about having shorter long runs. The training plans seem intense. I am not too concerned about time - I am concerned about FINISHING WELL.

    As an aside - my right ankle has the throbbing feeling ... I don't know if it's an actual sprain - it's just sore with some throbbing. Not sure if I should attempt another run tonight?

    Do it! You can. I never thought I could do a half and I did. Now of course I want to do another.
  • hamsterwheel6
    hamsterwheel6 Posts: 544 Member
    katharmonic wrote: »
    Date :::: Miles :::: Cumulative
    10/01/19 :::: 4.8 :::: 4.8
    10/02/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 7.8
    10/03/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 7.8
    10/04/19 :::: 3.1 :::: 10.8
    10/05/19 :::: 10.1 :::: 21.0
    10/06/19 :::: 1.0 :::: 22.0
    10/07/19 :::: 2.7 :::: 24.7
    10/08/19 :::: 3.4 :::: 28.1
    10/09/19 :::: 3.2 :::: 31.2
    10/10/19 :::: 2.2 :::: 33.4
    10/11/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 33.4
    10/12/19 :::: 5.1 :::: 38.5
    10/13/19 :::: 3.2 :::: 41.7
    10/14/19 :::: 3.4 :::: 45.1
    10/15/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 45.1
    10/16/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 48.1

    Rest day yesterday and easy treadmill miles today. I went to a yoga class after the run and it felt pretty good, but made me realize I'm pretty tight. I'll have to work on stretching the next couple of days.

    Tomorrow I fly to Kansas City for the beginnings of the big I-35 Challenge weekend. I have like 3 different outfits for each race packed, and I am still worried about not having the right thing. The forecast is improving, but there is still rain predicted for early morning on Saturday - really hoping this goes away but I did order some disposable rain ponchos for standing around before the start at least.

    10/19/2019 I-35 Challenge KC Half Marathon, Kansas City MO
    10/20/2019 I-35 Challenge DSM Half Marathon, Des Moines, IA

    Good luck! Looking forward to hearing about it!
  • hamsterwheel6
    hamsterwheel6 Posts: 544 Member
    martaindale wrote: »
    Did my longest training run (and longest distance ever) today, 12 miles!! While it was hard, I feel like it showed me that even if things aren't great on race day, I can definitely finish it and be ok.
    My husband and I waited for some weather to blow through and started about 11am. Mistake 1. I had a snack (Clif Bar) before heading out but we ran a little over 2 hours, which means we ran through the time I would usually eat lunch. My blood sugar is tenuous in general and has been most of my life. I manage this by eating about 6 times a day in my day to day life. Just constantly eating. When running I eat at about 50-55 minutes in then every 20-30 minutes for the rest of the run. Mistake 2. Didn't bring enough blocks. My blood sugar started tanking around mile 4. I could feel it coming so I ate a couple of my blocks, that I would usually have eaten in about 1-1.5 miles. Felt better, but then I needed my others earlier than scheduled. I even took one of my husband's (with permission) because he felt like he could do without and I definitely couldn't. Mistake 3. Should have worn an actual hat instead of a visor and maybe a thicker shirt or some sleeves. I was cold the entire time, and not in a refreshing cool air way. More like I started shivering if we had to stop to wait for a traffic light. Temp wise I was probably dressed ok, but it was really damp and windy and it felt soooo much colder.
    So, yeah, it kind of sucked but I did it. Chances are fewer of these things will go wrong on the actual race day.

    10/2: 3.2 miles
    10/7: 4.6 miles
    10/9: 3.3 miles
    10/12: 10.7 miles
    10/13: 3 miles
    10/14: 5 miles
    10/16: 12 miles

    Oct total: 41.8 miles
    Oct goal: 70 miles

    2019 Races:

    Piney Woods Trailfest 5k - 2/2/2019 29.23
    Rodeo Run 10k - 2/23/2019 1:03.12
    Run Houston! Minute Maid Park 10k - 3/23/2019 1:01.28
    Brazos Bend 50 10k - 4/6/2019 1:15:33
    Run for Life 5k - 9/7/2019 27.10
    10 for Texas 10 Miler - 10/2019 1:46:35
    Wine and Dine half marathon - 11/3/2019 registered

    Run the Year 2019 - Team Five for Nineteen - FINISHED!!

    You certainly will be prepared now. You battled through it, which is great!
  • hamsterwheel6
    hamsterwheel6 Posts: 544 Member
    The longest I ran in training for my half was 12 miles. And as @PastorVincent mentioned, I usually hit a wall at 10..
    And those last 2 or 3 art the toughest. So I agree.

    Day 3 no run. Foot getting better, walked a mile on the treadmill. Tried to run for a few minutes because I don't listen, and actually foot hurt less when running?
    At any rate. Looks way better now - swelling has gone down as well as the bruising. With any luck I'll try to go out on the weekend and see how I will do.

  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    7lenny7 wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    I will blow your mind and tell you that most people that can run a half can run a full. :) I do not endorse that method of training, but I personally know more than one person that has done just that. At least one that made a wrong turn on a half race and ended up on the full course, which he finished (but still got a DNF for the half)

    I personally ran my first 10-mile race after having a max "long-run" of 4 miles.

    IMO, though, most runners talk about hitting a "wall" at say mile 20 in the marathon or mile 10 in the half, and guess about where their long runs ended about? It might be a coincidence, but I am not so sure it is.

    There are good reasons to run less in training. In training you are running, by design, if you follow the plan, every long run on tired legs. You are, by design, pushing the edges of your limits. And the more you do that, the more likely you are to get hurt. By shortening the max long run, you significantly reduce that chance.

    @PastorVincent this isn't directed at you because I know you know this, but your post triggered these thoughts.

    There's running a marathon and then there's running a marathon well. By well I don't mean fast, I mean doing it without unnecessary pain and suffering. I talked to one guy who "ran" a marathon with NO training on a bet. He finished, but he was a hurtin' boy. If you don't get in your long runs to allow your body to make the adaptions needed for a marathon, yes you will reduce your chance of injury during training but you will increase your chance of injury and pain during the race. The key is finding the sweet spot between under training and over training.

    The better you train, the better your race. My opinion is that a good marathon training plan should include long runs every week, including two runs of 20-22 miles (or up to a 4 hour run, whichever comes first). 3 out of every 4 weeks should include long runs longer than the one before. The fourth one would be shorter as a part of a cutback week. A good marathon training plan should also incorporate speed and hill work once per week, and include strength work for legs and core. Key for successful long runs is to build them up slowly. If you're starting training with your long runs at 10 miles, I'd add no more than 2 miles for each subsequent long run. If you're starting with shorter long runs, add only 1 mile per long run until you reach a 10 mile long run.

    No one does a training run of marathon length, at marathon pace, so when you finally get to your first marathon, you're doing something your body had never done before. The taper before race will help you by providing a nice recovery phase, but after 20 miles in the race, even if you get your nutrition right, fatigue and muscle fiber breakdown will be an issue and you will slow down. I don't consider this "hitting the wall", or bonking, I consider this simply muscle fatigue. The definition I've heard most off for "hitting the wall" is when you draw down your glycogen supply so much you body can barely walk, much less run.

    From Runner's World: https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20854502/understanding-why-you-hit-the-wall/

    If you can't get through the paywall:
    In general, hitting the wall refers to depleting your stored glycogen and the feelings of fatigue and negativity that typically accompany it. Glycogen is carbohydrate that is stored in our muscles and liver for energy. It is the easiest and most readily available fuel source to burn when exercising, so the body prefers it. When you run low on glycogen, even your brain wants to shut down activity as a preservation method, which leads to the negative thinking that comes along with hitting the wall.

    Or another description from NYU
    Harold Pino, senior exercise physiologist at NYU Langone Medical Center’s Sports Performance Center, said that "hitting the wall" is generally thought to be the point when the body runs out of easy carbohydrates to process and will simply stop functioning properly.

    This doesn't mean your heart will give out but that you'll feel extreme fatigue, disorientation and weakness.

    "It’s when your body runs out of sugars to use as energy," Pino told ABC News. "It’s a feeling of severe weakness and severe fatigue."

    It would be a rare case to hit the wall in the half marathon, at least by these definitions. You're just not running far enough or long enough to deplete your glycogen stores. You may experience muscle fatigue however.

    To get a better understanding of what it's like to hit the wall, watch this video. It's not pleasant.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbQh2l01Bhw
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Yeah, which is why I do a 50k training plan for a Marathon now. The long-run in a 50k plan is 26 miles :)

    Wait a minute...I thought you were a proponent of less running for a marathon, then I see this?

    @7Lenny7, we do not disagree. :)

    I put "wall" in quotes because I meant the colloquial use, which is more of a mental wall than a biological one. Almost no one in the non-elite circles ever means the definition you quote. At least not in my experience. :)

    I am not a "proponent of running less" - I merely said it could be done, and that I know people (plural) that have done it. In fact, the one I meet up with last year that did it was in way better shape than I was in at the finish, though they were several hours behind me. So there is that :)

    To be clear: I do not advise it. :)

    But over the last year maybe two, I have moved to suggesting people use 50k training plans for a marathon unless it is there first go at it. In your first marathon, your goal should be to finish without injury, and a more conservative plan is better for that. After that, if you want to get better, then you have to train harder.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    edited October 2019
    7lenny7 wrote: »
    @Camaramandy648 AWESOME!!! You can do certainly do it! So you have about 28 weeks if I can count properly. I'd look for a 24 week plan that starts near the amount of running your doing now. If it starts with less miles per week, you can double up weeks, if it starts with more miles per week, you have some time to build up to it. I always recommend having a plan with a shorter time frame than you have. If you have 28 weeks and a 24 week plan, that gives you some cushion in case sickness or injury take you out of running for a bit. If it turns out you don't need the extra weeks, you can simply repeat weeks or have a slightly slower buildup. Feel free to post links to plans you're considering if you want input from us.

    As far as your ankle, if you're questioning whether you should run tonight, you probably shouldn't.

    Definitely take care of that ankle. Like said above, if it hurts to run on it, do not run on it.
  • hamsterwheel6
    hamsterwheel6 Posts: 544 Member
    Interesting. @7lenny7, @PastorVincent
    "Hitting the wall" as described in your post is different from the muscles just getting tired. So given that runs longer than 10 miles and I slow down or it gets tougher - it's because of the latter I guess then. Makes sense as I think I fuel enough to last before and during the run.
    So, are we saying that I need to run longer distances in order to perform better - the furthest I have gone is the HM?
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    hamsterwheel6 wrote: »
    Interesting. @7lenny7, @PastorVincent
    "Hitting the wall" as described in your post is different from the muscles just getting tired. So given that runs longer than 10 miles and I slow down or it gets tougher - it's because of the latter I guess then. Makes sense as I think I fuel enough to last before and during the run.
    So, are we saying that I need to run longer distances in order to perform better - the furthest I have gone is the HM?

    That entirely depends on your goals and targets :)
  • 7lenny7
    7lenny7 Posts: 3,498 Member
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    @7Lenny7, we do not disagree. :)

    I put "wall" in quotes because I meant the colloquial use, which is more of a mental wall than a biological one. Almost no one in the non-elite circles ever means the definition you quote. At least not in my experience. :)

    I am not a "proponent of running less" - I merely said it could be done, and that I know people (plural) that have done it. In fact, the one I meet up with last year that did it was in way better shape than I was in at the finish, though they were several hours behind me. So there is that :)

    To be clear: I do not advise it. :)

    But over the last year maybe two, I have moved to suggesting people use 50k training plans for a marathon unless it is there first go at it. In your first marathon, your goal should be to finish without injury, and a more conservative plan is better for that. After that, if you want to get better, then you have to train harder.

    @PastorVincent Got it, thanks for setting me straight. When you said there were good reasons for running less, I though you were recommending it.

  • 7lenny7
    7lenny7 Posts: 3,498 Member
    hamsterwheel6 wrote: »
    Interesting. @7lenny7, @PastorVincent
    "Hitting the wall" as described in your post is different from the muscles just getting tired. So given that runs longer than 10 miles and I slow down or it gets tougher - it's because of the latter I guess then. Makes sense as I think I fuel enough to last before and during the run.
    So, are we saying that I need to run longer distances in order to perform better - the furthest I have gone is the HM?

    This is correct, but many do casually use the phrase to describe the point at which muscle fatigue prevents you from keeping up your pace, even though you may have the endurance, no matter what the distance is. In my first marathon I kept a very steady 9:00 pace from 0 to 16 miles, dropped to 9:30 from 16 to 21, then from 10:00 to 11:10 to the end. It was all muscle fatigue. My heart rate dropped accordingly to the point where at the end of the race, it was just a bit over my easy run HR. My cardiovascular system was doing great but I couldn't get my legs to move any faster. Some would call that hitting the wall, I call that muscle fatigue.

  • zeesparrow
    zeesparrow Posts: 348 Member
    Today is an intentional, though unplanned, rest day. I did yoga last night, and walked the dogs about a mile this morning, relatively slowly and with lots of stops for sniffing things. My lower back is still grumpy, but not as much as it was. I had been considering a run at lunchtime but I'll follow @MobyCarp's (and all of your) wisdom and just take a rest day.

    Also, I just want to say, I appreciate the conversation here lately... the great wisdom and experience being shared by the veteran runners. You guys are awesome.
  • hamsterwheel6
    hamsterwheel6 Posts: 544 Member
    @7lenny7 Thank you for that, makes sense. And I have started speed work/intervals so hopefully that will help, and some tempo runs but still need to find that pace.
    I tend to agree with the muscle fatigue as to why my pace slows down near the end, because otherwise endurance wise I feel fine and could go longer I imagine..my legs though don’t want to lol.

    @PastorVincent goal is to be able to finish well time wise (for me) and mostly to finish strong, meaning not be so tired the last 2-3 miles

    Agreed good discussion here. Thank you guys!
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    hamsterwheel6 wrote: »
    @7lenny7 Thank you for that, makes sense. And I have started speed work/intervals so hopefully that will help, and some tempo runs but still need to find that pace.
    I tend to agree with the muscle fatigue as to why my pace slows down near the end, because otherwise endurance wise I feel fine and could go longer I imagine..my legs though don’t want to lol.

    @PastorVincent goal is to be able to finish well time wise (for me) and mostly to finish strong, meaning not be so tired the last 2-3 miles

    Agreed good discussion here. Thank you guys!

    What distance race are we talking about? Sorry, it is hard for me to keep up sometimes :)

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