Myfitnesspal

Message Boards Debate: Health and Fitness
You are currently viewing the message boards in:

Ethical food consumption

1235»

Replies

  • nooshi713nooshi713 Member Posts: 4,330 Member Member Posts: 4,330 Member
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    jm_1234 wrote: »
    France to ban culling of unwanted male chicks by end of 2021
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51301915
    About seven billion male chicks - not wanted for meat or eggs - are killed around the world each year, usually in shredding machines or by gas.

    I thought the above was interesting. I believe a similar practice happens with male dairy cows. It makes me curious, even if I buy step 5 animal welfare milk and eggs, does it mean only the living animals were treated well? Or does it also apply to how they treat the unwanted animals that don't produce dairy and eggs?


    I saw this article. I have seen video footage of chicken and egg farmers throwing male chicks into the grinder alive. This is beyond cruel and why I stopped eating eggs.

    What!!!? 😱 This is beyond disturbing! I have to look into this.


    Yeah it broke my heart. I was buying pasture raised eggs before and while those egg laying hens may have a nice life on an open pasture, what happens to the male chickens? This is what happens. By eating eggs, I was supporting this so I had to stop entirely.
  • ehrenlynae7ehrenlynae7 Member Posts: 65 Member Member Posts: 65 Member
    Farmer’s markets are seasonal where I live in the Midwest - only about 6 months out of the year. We shop when they are in season. We buy less meat but buy it strictly from local farmers - only eat meat 2-3x a week.

    We get our milk from a local dairy farm in glass jars, the farm takes the empty jars back, sanitizes and reuses (0 waste). We also get our eggs local and return the empty carton to the farmer for reuse.

    I shop grocery stores I try to stick in season produce. I use reusable shopping bags (including produce bags, and for bulk bins)

    We grow our own tomatoes and I have an indoor herb garden in my kitchen. I’d like to grow more but we have a lot of rabbits in our yard.

    I read somewhere that 40% of the waste in landfills is food waste (not sure if it’s true so don’t quote me on it) so we have started composting and we will use it in our yard and indoor plants.

    In addition to buying sustainable food, we have a goal of eliminating single use plastic in our home in 2020.

    I think it’s unrealistic that the entire world goes vegan but eating less meat and demanding it be from sources other than factory farming is important. I am a firm believer that e vote with how we spend our money.
  • JeromeBarry1JeromeBarry1 Member Posts: 10,178 Member Member Posts: 10,178 Member
    Ethical is a loaded word. I like loading it with cream cheese and bacon bits.
  • kshama2001kshama2001 Member Posts: 23,514 Member Member Posts: 23,514 Member
    Your point about the ethics of overconsumption is really important. And it's not just about not eating way more than you need, although that's part of it. But also about limiting food waste and food packaging waste consistently. So here are my best, easy, realistic tips for reigning in consumption, which have the benefit of also saving money a lot of times:

    1. Buy the option was less or more sustainable packaging when possible. Instead of buying the bagged potatoes, pick the loose potatoes. This also lets you control how many you buy. Buying in bulk only saves money if you actually use what you buy.
    2. Bring your own container to the extent possible. Shopping bags, produce bags, containers for bulk items.
    3. If you throw away a lot of food, try meal planning or freezing things to use later if they're about to go bad. The next time you go to make a shopping list, "shop your cupboards" first - try to use what you already have.
    4. Bulk your meals with ingredients that are cheaper and more sustainable. This is also often healthier. Typically includes things like more veggies or more grains.
    5. Save scraps of meats, veggies, and cheese rinds to make the best broth you've ever had.

    These are just the top 5 tips that I've used the most, but I'm sure there are plenty of other great ideas.

    6. Save bones in the freezer to make stock (which will be way tastier than store-bought.) I save various sized plastic containers, use these for freezer storage, and save stock in sizes from 1/4 C to 2 C.
    7. Less than a serving size of meat and/or veggies might be nice in scrambled eggs or soup.
    8. Compost! I have a spinning bin in my back yard and some communities compost. At one point, my state subsidized compost bins. That program is over, but apparently many municipalities still have them available and sell them at a discount. I had the Earth Machine where I lived last, but prefer the spinning one as it breaks down MUCH faster and spinning is so much easier than turning. https://www.mass.gov/composting-organics

    My mother and grandfather had a Thing about food waste, and with good planning, what I compost wasn't edible but rather peels and skins and such.
    edited February 2020
  • jdhcm2006jdhcm2006 Member Posts: 2,289 Member Member Posts: 2,289 Member
    My personal opinion is that we need to try as hard as we can but I realize that someone is always going to get the short end of the stick. Whether it’s the animals being slaughtered or the people who can no longer afford their native food bc the demand has skyrocketed the price or the people who are made to pick the crop but aren’t being paid adequately or the bees who are dying due to almond milk production. It’s all very convoluted and everyone should just do their best. But IMO the least everyone can do is recycle and reuse.
  • daneejeladaneejela Member Posts: 459 Member Member Posts: 459 Member
    Don't take this as an ego issue, but I am really puzzled with all the "Disagree's" in my entry point. I've tried to open an ethical debate about food consumption in the most open way I possibly could, trying to avoid separation on nutritional clans and just encourage thinking about what we can do within our diets (whether we are vegans, carnivores, paleo, vegetarians...) to make more sustainable and more human choices.

    One of the things I found pretty basic was to give those animals at least a most natural environment for the length of their short or long, lives. Like, don't put them in small cages if you have acres of empty land.
    If you can support smaller, multi-variety growth instead of large monoculture fields that require a lot of chemicals and seriously disrupt all life in the area, including humans (check for soya fields documentary in Paraguay). Another, also, pretty basic thing is to be mindful about food consumption and eating much more than we need.

    I am really puzzled - what is there to disagree with?
    Are we that much insensitive that we dislike even an idea of discussion about how can we survive and thrive and do so in the most ethical way possible?

    Weird thing is that all those ethical things are actually in our favor. It's beneficial for us to eat free-range, grass-fed meat, veggies with fewer pesticides, and not to overeat.

    To not end in the ranting tone, I really appreciate all tips shared!
  • daneejeladaneejela Member Posts: 459 Member Member Posts: 459 Member

    My family buys male day old dairy calves to raise for meat. We often buy a few at a time and sell to friends as well. Farmers don’t waste or kill for nothing. These articles make it seem as if it is enjoyable. If we don’t take the calves the farmer can sell to other places that slaughter for various uses. Or if he shoots it himself it feeds his dogs for a few days. I see no problem with this. In our own farm if I have picked out a ewe who I feel is too old to breed/who is a poor mother we will butcher her and put the meat in the freezer labeled as dog food.

    I grew up on a small family farm. When my parents had ducks, even though they haven't lived for a long time (few months), the time they were alive, they had the best life possible - they lived outside, on a big meadow with a small pool they've run to every morning.
    When the time came, I did felt bad for them, but it was easier for me to accept the food chain when I knew they had a really cool life while they were alive.
    On the other hand, when you turn a living being into industrial raw material as they do in the big tech meat companies, it's just so painfully heartless.
  • janejellyrolljanejellyroll Member, Premium Posts: 24,825 Member Member, Premium Posts: 24,825 Member
    daneejela wrote: »

    My family buys male day old dairy calves to raise for meat. We often buy a few at a time and sell to friends as well. Farmers don’t waste or kill for nothing. These articles make it seem as if it is enjoyable. If we don’t take the calves the farmer can sell to other places that slaughter for various uses. Or if he shoots it himself it feeds his dogs for a few days. I see no problem with this. In our own farm if I have picked out a ewe who I feel is too old to breed/who is a poor mother we will butcher her and put the meat in the freezer labeled as dog food.

    I grew up on a small family farm. When my parents had ducks, even though they haven't lived for a long time (few months), the time they were alive, they had the best life possible - they lived outside, on a big meadow with a small pool they've run to every morning.
    When the time came, I did felt bad for them, but it was easier for me to accept the food chain when I knew they had a really cool life while they were alive.
    On the other hand, when you turn a living being into industrial raw material as they do in the big tech meat companies, it's just so painfully heartless.

    If you're killing someone for food, you're turning them into raw material regardless of whether or not you allow them access to a pool beforehand or not. Is it the "industrial" part that is the specific issue? This is an attitude I've encountered before -- "Well, at least we're not like THEM," as if the act is transformed by a lower standard of efficiency or a smaller profit margin.

  • daneejeladaneejela Member Posts: 459 Member Member Posts: 459 Member
    If you're killing someone for food, you're turning them into raw material regardless of whether or not you allow them access to a pool beforehand or not. Is it the "industrial" part that is the specific issue? This is an attitude I've encountered before -- "Well, at least we're not like THEM," as if the act is transformed by a lower standard of efficiency or a smaller profit margin.

    Thank you for the feedback...although, I strongly disagree. Killing for food is in the very basic nature of the world we are born into. It is present in the numerous number of species and part of nature's balance. Even if you are a vegan, many living creatures are killed in order for you to be able to eat a piece of veggie.

    Death is one moment in life. One of many moments.

    But yet, depriving any being of the life it has been build for, by making them caged, depriving them of the most basic experiences like sun, or wind, or rain or grass...it's beyond cruel and it's a pretty new concept in nature.


    edited February 8
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter, Premium Posts: 44,380 Member Member, Greeter, Premium Posts: 44,380 Member
    I believe that eventually because of science, we'll switch to lab grown meats. Likely far in the future but it's not out of the question. There would be no pasturing needed, no antibiotics (because the environment for growing would be sterile) less space needed and really no killing needed. Now of course it will taste a bit different because lab grown meat really doesn't have any fat in it. You're just replicating muscle cells. But it if were just for the protein intake without having to go vegan/vegatarian, I can see this as a future option.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • 33gail3333gail33 Member Posts: 393 Member Member Posts: 393 Member
    daneejela wrote: »

    My family buys male day old dairy calves to raise for meat. We often buy a few at a time and sell to friends as well. Farmers don’t waste or kill for nothing. These articles make it seem as if it is enjoyable. If we don’t take the calves the farmer can sell to other places that slaughter for various uses. Or if he shoots it himself it feeds his dogs for a few days. I see no problem with this. In our own farm if I have picked out a ewe who I feel is too old to breed/who is a poor mother we will butcher her and put the meat in the freezer labeled as dog food.

    I grew up on a small family farm. When my parents had ducks, even though they haven't lived for a long time (few months), the time they were alive, they had the best life possible - they lived outside, on a big meadow with a small pool they've run to every morning.
    When the time came, I did felt bad for them, but it was easier for me to accept the food chain when I knew they had a really cool life while they were alive.
    On the other hand, when you turn a living being into industrial raw material as they do in the big tech meat companies, it's just so painfully heartless.

    If you're killing someone for food, you're turning them into raw material regardless of whether or not you allow them access to a pool beforehand or not. Is it the "industrial" part that is the specific issue? This is an attitude I've encountered before -- "Well, at least we're not like THEM," as if the act is transformed by a lower standard of efficiency or a smaller profit margin.

    I'll try to explain it, because this is how I feel about it as well. I became vegetarian, then vegan, not because I think that killing animals for food is inherently wrong (I don't), but because I feel that the commodification of farm animals is inherently wrong. "Producing" them in a factory farm reduces them to nothing more than biological machines that exist solely for our use, and I personally find that horrific. I always recommend the book "Eating Animals" by Jonathan Safran Foer (yes the same guy who wrote Everything is Illuminated - he also writes non fiction) as a very balanced look into the issue.
    Personally I still struggle with the ethical conundrum my health issues present me with regards to diet - for me fully vegan is what I aspire to from a moral perspective - but so far it hasn't worked out for me. So I try to balance it as best I can by including only wild caught fish and organic eggs (which have the highest animal welfare standards fwiw).
    edited February 13
  • hesn92hesn92 Member Posts: 5,882 Member Member Posts: 5,882 Member
    I think the most ethical thing you can do is grow or raise as much as you can yourself, and shop local as much as you can. I wish it were more mainstream for neighborhoods to have community gardens. I live in a typical suburban neighborhood where everyone has a yard full of pointless grass lol. Why don't all the neighbors come together and used a shared space for a community garden or chicken coop? Instead we buy food at the grocery store that was shipped from halfway across the world. I have a small veg. garden but me and my husband both work full time and growing enough food to really sustain you is a full time job in itself. Our whole society is just backwards to me. Food should be a priority, it's what sustains us.

    I don't eat any animal products right now because factory farming is unethical but I still have mixed feelings about eating animals and animal products in general. I don't believe there is any humane way to breed and kill an animal who is healthy and doesn't want to die, especially at such a young age, but nature is cruel. If animals are treated well and slaughtered in the most painless way, that's a lot less cruel than what happens out in nature. Although, on the other hand, most humans can thrive on a *well planned* plant based diet, so the breeding and killing of animals isn't necessary in most cases.
    edited February 16
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member, Premium Posts: 6,775 Member Member, Premium Posts: 6,775 Member
    hesn92 wrote: »
    I think the most ethical thing you can do is grow or raise as much as you can yourself, and shop local as much as you can. I wish it were more mainstream for neighborhoods to have community gardens. I live in a typical suburban neighborhood where everyone has a yard full of pointless grass lol.

    It's really common where I live (although in a city) to have a community garden and my neighborhood does, and I personally have been working on growing veg in my backyard (I'm better at it than flowers). I'm not sure I agree that's better ethically or environmentally than buying from farms (esp the many many local farms I know) that operate at scale, though. Maybe there's an environmental benefit to organic or local, that's debatable, but why would it be better for me to grow all my own (which is not possible -- I have over 3 ft of snow in my backyard right now) and have a less diverse veg and fruit option vs supporting people whose career is to farm? Gardening is a great hobby, but IMO people who can and choose to garden aren't more ethical than those who aren't interested, and it's not inherently cheaper given how hit or miss it can be IMO.
  • Theo166Theo166 Member, Premium Posts: 2,427 Member Member, Premium Posts: 2,427 Member
    daneejela wrote: »

    I am not sure if this is the case...at least not in my part of the world...there are so many abandoned lands that nobody cares for and pasture that is being trimmed with trimming machines. It's almost impossible to see a cow, a pig or a sheep outside in the countryside.

    If all those land would be utilized, I would probably share your opinion, right now it sounds too me like one of those widely spread beliefs that are hard to prove/disprove.

    Regarding proteins...I don't have enough knowledge to argue about how much proteins we need, but a look into the historical consumption of proteins raises a question if we maybe are going overboard with proteins lately.
    (I am not talking about bodybuilders, but an average person with average physical activity)
    nope, you can't produce affordable food on those random acres of abandoned land. It's a big commitment to raise farm animals and if they are cutting the hay, it is likely sold as feed.

    I certainly agree 'people' should eat fewer calories and waste less, but most of those excess calories are coming from processed carbs not meat. We would achieve great things if people were mostly in the healthy BMI range.

    Also, the environmental impact of lab grown meat is not insignificant. The nutrients will be industrially produced rather than relying on lower tech farming of livestock feed.
    edited February 17
  • Grace_spaceshipGrace_spaceship Member Posts: 71 Member Member Posts: 71 Member
    I guess for me ethical eating is trying to avoid packaging. I also try to eat local seasonal veggies. As much as I love avocado toast, I know that avocado had to been flown halfway around the world for me to have it, and in all likelihood it's relativity cheap because the person who grows/harvests it is not paid enough. I live on a farm, we have sheep, cattle and chickens. I like eating animals I know. I know what kind of life they had, and that they were cared for and treated well. I know our land is unsuitable for crops but excellent at growing grass which we humans cannot eat, but cows and sheep love. Our farm also trays to balance productivity with environmental consciousness. We plant a lot of hedges. We have multiple beehives. We are working towards planting native trees on marginal ground (steep hillside, really wet bits ect). I am not into organic meat because in my experience it can be worse for the animals. If one of our animals get an infection, we treat it straight away limiting the distress and pain the animal is in. An organic farm would have to wait for a vet to come out to administer the same treatment possibly prolonging the animals suffering for hours.
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Member Posts: 1,643 Member Member Posts: 1,643 Member
    hesn92 wrote: »
    I think the most ethical thing you can do is grow or raise as much as you can yourself, and shop local as much as you can. I wish it were more mainstream for neighborhoods to have community gardens. I live in a typical suburban neighborhood where everyone has a yard full of pointless grass lol. Why don't all the neighbors come together and used a shared space for a community garden or chicken coop? Instead we buy food at the grocery store that was shipped from halfway across the world. I have a small veg. garden but me and my husband both work full time and growing enough food to really sustain you is a full time job in itself. Our whole society is just backwards to me. Food should be a priority, it's what sustains us.

    Looks like you answered your question a couple lines down.

    The people running the farms are better and dedicate more time to it than you do, just like you and your husband are more likely better at what you do than most farmers. Where is the neighborhood farm land going to come from? Never mind some people don't like messing around in a garden or raising chickens.
    edited February 22
  • SunnyBunBun79SunnyBunBun79 Member Posts: 1,058 Member Member Posts: 1,058 Member
    If the animal is well taken care of and is slaughtered swiftly to not increase its pain then that would, in my opinion, be the best way to consume meat. Unfortunately, with greed and cruelty, animals are the ones who suffer til the end. I don't know why its more expensive in the US to buy grass fed beef or free range animal meat/eggs.. there is SO MUCH more land here to spread out and raise cattle and other animals for meat.
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Member Posts: 1,643 Member Member Posts: 1,643 Member
    hesn92 wrote: »
    I think the most ethical thing you can do is grow or raise as much as you can yourself, and shop local as much as you can. I wish it were more mainstream for neighborhoods to have community gardens. I live in a typical suburban neighborhood where everyone has a yard full of pointless grass lol. Why don't all the neighbors come together and used a shared space for a community garden or chicken coop? Instead we buy food at the grocery store that was shipped from halfway across the world. I have a small veg. garden but me and my husband both work full time and growing enough food to really sustain you is a full time job in itself. Our whole society is just backwards to me. Food should be a priority, it's what sustains us.

    .

    The average farmer feeds 155 people, so yes growing food is a job in and of itself. We can romanticize being self reliant and growing all the food for ourselves and our families, but not very practical in today's world.

    https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/how-many-farmer-feed.htm
Sign In or Register to comment.