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If a calorie is a calorie, why do we see this?
Replies
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magnusthenerd wrote: »SEVENTH
Study made in Germany just published in the The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/105/3/dgz311/5740411Discussion
Our data show that the time of day of food intake makes a difference in humans’ energy expenditure and metabolic responses to meals.
...
We clearlyshow that DIT is 2.5 times higher after breakfast than after dinner.
...
Overall, the diurnal variations in DIT, independent of the calorie content of the meals, imply that the time of food intake is important not only in the prevention of obesity but also in terms of diets for weight loss.
What even is DIT?
dietary induced thermogenesis (DIT)
thank you google-gods
1 -
deannalfisher wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »SEVENTH
Study made in Germany just published in the The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/105/3/dgz311/5740411Discussion
Our data show that the time of day of food intake makes a difference in humans’ energy expenditure and metabolic responses to meals.
...
We clearlyshow that DIT is 2.5 times higher after breakfast than after dinner.
...
Overall, the diurnal variations in DIT, independent of the calorie content of the meals, imply that the time of food intake is important not only in the prevention of obesity but also in terms of diets for weight loss.
What even is DIT?
dietary induced thermogenesis (DIT)
thank you google-gods
Honestly wanted saintor to answer.3 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »SEVENTH
Study made in Germany just published in the The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/105/3/dgz311/5740411Discussion
Our data show that the time of day of food intake makes a difference in humans’ energy expenditure and metabolic responses to meals.
...
We clearlyshow that DIT is 2.5 times higher after breakfast than after dinner.
...
Overall, the diurnal variations in DIT, independent of the calorie content of the meals, imply that the time of food intake is important not only in the prevention of obesity but also in terms of diets for weight loss.
What even is DIT?
dietary induced thermogenesis (DIT)
thank you google-gods
Honestly wanted saintor to answer.
Me too. Based on the thread so far I think he's unable to discuss what he posts.6 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »SEVENTH
Study made in Germany just published in the The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/105/3/dgz311/5740411Discussion
Our data show that the time of day of food intake makes a difference in humans’ energy expenditure and metabolic responses to meals.
...
We clearlyshow that DIT is 2.5 times higher after breakfast than after dinner.
...
Overall, the diurnal variations in DIT, independent of the calorie content of the meals, imply that the time of food intake is important not only in the prevention of obesity but also in terms of diets for weight loss.
What even is DIT?
dietary induced thermogenesis (DIT)
thank you google-gods
Honestly wanted saintor to answer.
Me too. Based on the thread so far I think he's unable to discuss what he posts.
i need a gif of me sticking my tongue out 1 -
The dog's tongue will have to do!7
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estherpotter1 wrote: »thanks,that was a horrible thought to be maintaining at just 1000 calories and no loger losing weight.
Don't worry. I'm a li'l ol' lady who lost 1/3 of her body weight in less than a year, and maintain at more than twice that. Don't do anything super dumb while losing (like ultra-fast loss, poor nutrition, zero exercise) and you'll be fine. You might even be fine of you do those things, but not doing them improves your odds.3 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »SEVENTH
Study made in Germany just published in the The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/105/3/dgz311/5740411Discussion
Our data show that the time of day of food intake makes a difference in humans’ energy expenditure and metabolic responses to meals.
...
We clearlyshow that DIT is 2.5 times higher after breakfast than after dinner.
...
Overall, the diurnal variations in DIT, independent of the calorie content of the meals, imply that the time of food intake is important not only in the prevention of obesity but also in terms of diets for weight loss.
What even is DIT?
dietary induced thermogenesis (DIT)
thank you google-gods
Honestly wanted saintor to answer.
Me too. Based on the thread so far I think he's unable to discuss what he posts.
I also wonder why it seems to be so important. None of this stuff is sufficient to outweigh compliance factors (at best).7 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »SEVENTH
Study made in Germany just published in the The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/105/3/dgz311/5740411Discussion
Our data show that the time of day of food intake makes a difference in humans’ energy expenditure and metabolic responses to meals.
...
We clearlyshow that DIT is 2.5 times higher after breakfast than after dinner.
...
Overall, the diurnal variations in DIT, independent of the calorie content of the meals, imply that the time of food intake is important not only in the prevention of obesity but also in terms of diets for weight loss.
What even is DIT?
dietary induced thermogenesis (DIT)
thank you google-gods
Honestly wanted saintor to answer.
Me too. Based on the thread so far I think he's unable to discuss what he posts.
I also wonder why it seems to be so important. None of this stuff is sufficient to outweigh compliance factors (at best).
I think he's shouty guy without the caps.8 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »SEVENTH
Study made in Germany just published in the The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/105/3/dgz311/5740411Discussion
Our data show that the time of day of food intake makes a difference in humans’ energy expenditure and metabolic responses to meals.
...
We clearlyshow that DIT is 2.5 times higher after breakfast than after dinner.
...
Overall, the diurnal variations in DIT, independent of the calorie content of the meals, imply that the time of food intake is important not only in the prevention of obesity but also in terms of diets for weight loss.
What even is DIT?
dietary induced thermogenesis (DIT)
thank you google-gods
Honestly wanted saintor to answer.
Me too. Based on the thread so far I think he's unable to discuss what he posts.
I also wonder why it seems to be so important. None of this stuff is sufficient to outweigh compliance factors (at best).
In my experience, people like to complicate things. It makes them feel special...3 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »SEVENTH
Study made in Germany just published in the The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/105/3/dgz311/5740411Discussion
Our data show that the time of day of food intake makes a difference in humans’ energy expenditure and metabolic responses to meals.
...
We clearlyshow that DIT is 2.5 times higher after breakfast than after dinner.
...
Overall, the diurnal variations in DIT, independent of the calorie content of the meals, imply that the time of food intake is important not only in the prevention of obesity but also in terms of diets for weight loss.
What even is DIT?
dietary induced thermogenesis (DIT)
thank you google-gods
Honestly wanted saintor to answer.
Me too. Based on the thread so far I think he's unable to discuss what he posts.
I also wonder why it seems to be so important. None of this stuff is sufficient to outweigh compliance factors (at best).
In my experience, people like to complicate things. It makes them feel special...
Or a felt need to debunk the theory that calories are what matter for weight management, in this case?2 -
Sometimes an inch is the same as a meter, and sometimes a pound is five years.
No, not really. An inch is an inch, a year is a year, and a calorie is a calorie.4 -
An inch is an inch, a year is a year, and a pound is $1.30 or 1.19 Euro, at least today.
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I was 200lbs 6 months ago, I lost 45lbs eating 75% junk food. Right now i'm maintaining my weight eating 40-50% junk food, so I guess in terms of weight management a calorie is a calorie.17
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I was 200lbs 6 months ago, I lost 45lbs eating 75% junk food. Right now i'm maintaining my weight eating 40-50% junk food, so I guess in terms of weight management a calorie is a calorie.
This is true. The only caveat being, generally speaking, junk food is typically not as satiating as whole foods which could lead to over-eating. That said, I also suspect there is variability among individuals.4 -
I was 200lbs 6 months ago, I lost 45lbs eating 75% junk food. Right now i'm maintaining my weight eating 40-50% junk food, so I guess in terms of weight management a calorie is a calorie.
Terrible conclusion. I guess that you didn't read anything, Those major studies show that if you eat most of your calories early in the days, you will lose weight quicker no matter the root cause. I gather that your experience has nothing to do with that.1 -
I was 200lbs 6 months ago, I lost 45lbs eating 75% junk food. Right now i'm maintaining my weight eating 40-50% junk food, so I guess in terms of weight management a calorie is a calorie.
Terrible conclusion. I guess that you didn't read anything, Those major studies show that if you eat most of your calories early in the days, you will lose weight quicker no matter the root cause. I gather that your experience has nothing to do with that.
I'm not so sure that "quicker" is a good thing. My experience matches @Mellouk89 in any case; when it comes to weight loss, calories are king. I eat light early in the day, save my calories for evening. I've dropped 108lbs this way, I'm closing on goal. Might the weight have come off a little faster if I ate more early in the day? Can't say, don't care. I'm good with my results.12 -
I was 200lbs 6 months ago, I lost 45lbs eating 75% junk food. Right now i'm maintaining my weight eating 40-50% junk food, so I guess in terms of weight management a calorie is a calorie.
Terrible conclusion. I guess that you didn't read anything, Those major studies show that if you eat most of your calories early in the days, you will lose weight quicker no matter the root cause. I gather that your experience has nothing to do with that.
You seem to not understand what a study is - a report of an average. It doesn't mean for the individual, weight loss will always be faster.8 -
I was 200lbs 6 months ago, I lost 45lbs eating 75% junk food. Right now i'm maintaining my weight eating 40-50% junk food, so I guess in terms of weight management a calorie is a calorie.
Terrible conclusion. I guess that you didn't read anything, Those major studies show that if you eat most of your calories early in the days, you will lose weight quicker no matter the root cause. I gather that your experience has nothing to do with that.
Why are you so desperate to push this idea, despite the fact its been pointed out over and over that
A: the studies are flawed due to extremely small numbers
B: the studies are also flawed due to poor study design
And c: even if these results are accurate, the difference is so minimal that most people won't care that eating in the morning can on average get them to goal maybe 1 or 2 weeks earlier. No one cares about that.
You see to be fixated on this. Are you one of the authors?17 -
Well, despite being of a no higher BMI and on a similar deficit to what the first few studies reported people to be on, I lost at a significantly faster rate than either of the groups. (This is despite eating my calories spread into three even meals, roughly, with a later dinner.)
Thus, it seems like calorie compliance is most important -- go figure -- and saying I should have done it like a group of people who on average lost weight more slowly is, well, absurd.10 -
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts...”
–Daniel Patrick Moynihan
10 -
I was 200lbs 6 months ago, I lost 45lbs eating 75% junk food. Right now i'm maintaining my weight eating 40-50% junk food, so I guess in terms of weight management a calorie is a calorie.
Terrible conclusion. I guess that you didn't read anything, Those major studies show that if you eat most of your calories early in the days, you will lose weight quicker no matter the root cause. I gather that your experience has nothing to do with that.
Someone lost 45 pounds by counting calories and is maintaining that loss and you're quibbling because you think it could have been quicker? What's the problem?12 -
This thread is bizarre. It's like everyone else is in complete agreement and every couple of days the OP comes back and posts, "BUT... You're all wrong!".
There will never be a study that will show that one way of eating or eating schedule is "better" for losing weight, because there are a multitude of uncontrollable variables. Unless you literally lock hundreds of people in a laboratory setting where you firmly control calories in, calories expended, psychological factors, and general health, and even then there are those nasty genetic factors so you'd have to pre-screen every person for dozens of conditions.
Otherwise all you can do is show something that is a possible strategy for someone to try. If someone is struggling to limit their calories appropriately, I think eating more earlier is a viable strategy to try. Just like delayed eating, or eating more whole foods, or volume eating, or low carb, or no snacks, or plant based, or higher protein, or portion control containers. All are strategies that "could" help "certain" individuals stay in a deficit without struggle, and perhaps even without counting.21 -
and hypothetically, even if such a laboratory study with big numbers and controlled variables did show an increased rate of weight loss for people who ate more in the morning, that still doesnt mean it will work for individual you in your individual life.
this is what science studies call real life application.
We get similar in the medical studies I do follow.
Xyz medication is proven, under not quite laboratory controlled conditions - but, say, long term hospital inpatients, as being more effective for respiratory conditions than abc medication currently on the market.
But it doesnt correlate to real life application because (as examples) it is too expensive for patients to purchase, they forget to use it 3 times a day, the application device is too complicated and they misuse it or too big and not portable for out of home use.
Advantages are not worth the benifits or not possible in real life.
Likewise, I do not have time to eat or prepare a large breakfast before work, I am not hungry then, my family dont want to change eating habits and I like eating together - and the small benifits even if they are proven to be there in controlled conditions, do not make application worth the benifits in my real life.9 -
pretty unscientific test. No control, and 4 out of 7 days are self reported? Lots of room for cheating, and it would be way more tempting to cheat on a small breakfast.4
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All the comments about that they should have lost more weight need to realize everyone's metabolism is NOT the same. Age, activity level, muscle mass, etc. make this study very difficult to authenticate let alone compare to you or whoever's journey.
If BF group had a history of training or physically demanding jobs and had more muscle than the other group this could account for difference as well. Even if height and weight is the same chances of finding 2 men or women with same physical makeup would be hard let alone 30 or 60. If you had more woman with higher muscle mass (higher metabolism=greater calorie burn and more weight loss) in BF group then this would make group average weight loss higher.0 -
All the comments about that they should have lost more weight need to realize everyone's metabolism is NOT the same. Age, activity level, muscle mass, etc. make this study very difficult to authenticate let alone compare to you or whoever's journey.
If BF group had a history of training or physically demanding jobs and had more muscle than the other group this could account for difference as well. Even if height and weight is the same chances of finding 2 men or women with same physical makeup would be hard let alone 30 or 60. If you had more woman with higher muscle mass (higher metabolism=greater calorie burn and more weight loss) in BF group then this would make group average weight loss higher.
Different metabolisms don't mean a dramatically different number of calories in a pound, per better-controlled research (possible slightly different activity-level adaptation to NEAT expenditures, but that effect is small).
Occam's razor suggests compliance accuracy problems, given the studies' designs.4 -
All the comments about that they should have lost more weight need to realize everyone's metabolism is NOT the same. Age, activity level, muscle mass, etc. make this study very difficult to authenticate let alone compare to you or whoever's journey.
If BF group had a history of training or physically demanding jobs and had more muscle than the other group this could account for difference as well. Even if height and weight is the same chances of finding 2 men or women with same physical makeup would be hard let alone 30 or 60. If you had more woman with higher muscle mass (higher metabolism=greater calorie burn and more weight loss) in BF group then this would make group average weight loss higher.
So according to this logic, there shouldn't be studies of any kind because its impossible to create a group with exactly identical stats? As Ann pointed out above, even accounting for changes in metabolism or muscle mass, there is not a dramatic difference in calories, and the formula for weight loss is the same for everyone. Yes, it is possible for one person to have a metabolic advantage over another, but with a large enough group size, the average of the group is more than adequate to weed out those outliers.6 -
Its not that there shouldnt be any studies as much as the results between people is seldom apples to apples. Calories in and burned just is too different between people. This study tells me that it might be worth comparing b,l & d high to low or low to high for myself only and see if one produces better results. I'm lucky if I stick to 3 meals all 400 calories or less and dont snack I lose weight just fine but for those that dont this study shows another possibility.0
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Here is a different view on the same subject. The young man is a good presenter and his personal experience is also a good testimony, although all his cited references were already mentioned above. More on this starting at 4:00m, but the thermogenesis part earlier in his video is also interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCyECbA3pUw 0
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