Calorie Counter

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If a calorie is a calorie, why do we see this?

saintor1saintor1 Posts: 283Member Member Posts: 283Member Member
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/oby.20460
Design and Methods: Overweight and obese women (BMI 32.4 6 1.8 kg=m2) with metabolic syndrome were randomized into two isocaloric (1400 kcal) weight loss groups, a breakfast (BF) (700 kcal breakfast, 500 kcal lunch, 200 kcal dinner) or a dinner (D) group (200 kcal breakfast, 500 kcal lunch, 700 kcal dinner) for 12 weeks.

So 1400cal in both groups, first BF ate 700 / 500 /200 for breakfast / lunch / dinner and the D group ate the opposite.

And the kicker:
However, compared with the D group, the BF group showed a 2.5-fold greater weight loss

That's massive.

"Eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince and dinner like a pauper."
edited January 28
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Replies

  • ReenieHJReenieHJ Posts: 1,004Member Member Posts: 1,004Member Member
    I don't believe studies are highly accurate but I do feel if you eat less towards the end of the day as opposed to more, there is some benefit to that. Now, does it have anything to do with eating less overall?? I know if I ate less at night my caloric intake would diminish because that's when my munchies hit. So as far as studies go, I take some of them with a grain of salt. UNLESS you're able to back them up with even more studies that seem more closely monitored. Just my take on it.
  • erickirberickirb Posts: 12,401Member Member Posts: 12,401Member Member
    Did both groups have the same maintenance cals. if one was higher (BF group) and ate the same cals as the other group they would be expected to lose more. the other possible reason, as noted before, is that bigger breakfast could lead to a higher NEAT.
  • just_Tomekjust_Tomek Posts: 8,078Member Member Posts: 8,078Member Member
    All this study proves is that eating in calorie deficit will make you lose weight. Simple. And strictly speaking, calorie is a calorie, a unit of energy.
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Posts: 4,503Member Member Posts: 4,503Member Member
    erickirb wrote: »
    Did both groups have the same maintenance cals. if one was higher (BF group) and ate the same cals as the other group they would be expected to lose more. the other possible reason, as noted before, is that bigger breakfast could lead to a higher NEAT.

    The calories weren't controlled. Both groups seem to have lost less than they should have at the calories provided than if they'd truly been compliant, but the big breakfast group was either more compliant or moved more, most likely.

    It would be very interesting to see this study with truly controlled cals, but it's hard to do 12 weeks with such a study. It would then lead to questions about NEAT (we discussed a study recently that supposedly did find that eating breakfast increased NEAT, which offset the fact that people who skipped breakfast tended to eat less over the course of the day -- I don't know if anyone saw the actual study, so we were discussing assuming the account of it were true, which is always risky).
    edited January 28
  • Suezq72760Suezq72760 Posts: 212Member Member Posts: 212Member Member

    "It is likely that the low bf participants were not accustomed to such a low calorie breakfast and it impacted their NEAT. "

    Pardon the ignorance here...what is NEAT? Thanks!
  • cmriversidecmriverside Posts: 29,569Member Member Posts: 29,569Member Member
    erickirb wrote: »
    Did both groups have the same maintenance cals. if one was higher (BF group) and ate the same cals as the other group they would be expected to lose more. the other possible reason, as noted before, is that bigger breakfast could lead to a higher NEAT.

    ^^This.

    Plus time of day of weigh-ins...plus the set number of calories allegedly eaten, plus - if it were this simple I'm pretty sure we all would have done this.

    It's still about calories, not bogus 30 sample "studies."
  • SezxyStefSezxyStef Posts: 15,236Member Member Posts: 15,236Member Member
    Only 30 people? Then it sounds like statistical anomalies and math threw off the data. Not a big enough study to be accurate. The data is just fluff. Especially if their calorie intake wasn’t controlled every day!
    erickirb wrote: »
    Did both groups have the same maintenance cals. if one was higher (BF group) and ate the same cals as the other group they would be expected to lose more. the other possible reason, as noted before, is that bigger breakfast could lead to a higher NEAT.

    ^^This.

    Plus time of day of weigh-ins...plus the set number of calories allegedly eaten, plus - if it were this simple I'm pretty sure we all would have done this.

    It's still about calories, not bogus 30 sample "studies."

    Just for clarity it was over 90 and they were split into groups...not just 30 people in total.
  • LietchiLietchi Posts: 293Member Member Posts: 293Member Member
    Aside from the question of the accuracy of the calories and differences in NEAT, I also wonder about body composition before and after weight-loss.
    Losing mostly fat versus losing fat and muscle mass would also change the weight loss rate, I presume. Muscle loss certainly seems a relevant factor considering the (theoretically) large deficit.
  • SezxyStefSezxyStef Posts: 15,236Member Member Posts: 15,236Member Member
    Lietchi wrote: »
    Aside from the question of the accuracy of the calories and differences in NEAT, I also wonder about body composition before and after weight-loss.
    Losing mostly fat versus losing fat and muscle mass would also change the weight loss rate, I presume. Muscle loss certainly seems a relevant factor considering the (theoretically) large deficit.

    not sure if any of that matters mainly because the study was done based on BMI not people of the same weight.
    "Design and Methods: Overweight and obese women (BMI 32.4 6 1.8 kg=m2) with metabolic syndrome"

    so if you are 180lbs at 5 ft 3 eating 1400 calories 3 days a week vs 215lbs at 5ft 9 (both are BMI 32) the one at 215 will lose more weight...without changing anything else...because they are heavier burn more naturally.
  • Suezq72760Suezq72760 Posts: 212Member Member Posts: 212Member Member
    Suezq72760 wrote: »
    "It is likely that the low bf participants were not accustomed to such a low calorie breakfast and it impacted their NEAT. "

    Pardon the ignorance here...what is NEAT? Thanks!

    Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis

    All the calories you burn throughout the day, when not exercising.

    Thank you!! :-)
  • deannalfisherdeannalfisher Posts: 5,377Member, Premium Member Posts: 5,377Member, Premium Member
    i'd like to know how they determined that 1400 cal was the right amount of calories per day for each person - technically by BMI i'm obese but i can tell you that i lose weight eating 2000cal a day (as a female 5'3", 165lbs) so 1400 would be really low for me; but others who aren't as active 1400 could be the right goal
  • saintor1saintor1 Posts: 283Member Member Posts: 283Member Member
    Another study going the *same way*.
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2013.863169
    Results: Thirty-six subjects completed the study (G1 = 18, G2 = 18). Both groups had significant improvements in body composition and metabolic parameters but G1 had enhanced results for weight loss (G1: −8.2 ± 3.0 kg; G2: −6.5 ± 3.4 kg; p = 0.028),

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