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Thoughts on Beyond Burger and other fake meat
Replies
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Yes it is a processed food. Its actually an ultra processed food and for optimal health these should be kept at a minimum. That being said a burger of any sort has never been considered a healthy food option. The plant based burgers have just as many fat grams and calories as their animal based cousins. They are an ethical option if anything.
How would a burger not be considered a healthy or nutritious food source? It's just beef that has been ground up. I do 93% GB and grill up a burger or make tacos or chili pretty much weekly.4 -
ruperthumphrey wrote: »A store near me bleaches their expired shelf life chicken and repackages it.
Then you should report that store to the Dept of Health 🤷🏼♀️15 -
I’m not a fan my family strictly eats organic raised without antibiotic meat it’s expensive but the taste and quality can’t be compared1
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I buy Beyond Burger a lot and really enjoy it. If I go to a restaurant, I'd rather a beef burger, but when I cook at home, I find it a lot easier to work with. I was never very good at cooking beef burgers so my Beyond Burgers end up coming out better.
I also find the "it's heavily processed" attack to be amusing because:
1. Of course it's processed. It's plant based products made to mimic the taste, appearance, and nutritional profile of ground beef. Of course it's gonna be processed. It doesn't grow on the beef fruit tree plant.
2. If people want to scare about "processed" or "funny sounding ingredients", they should look at what gets fed to commercially produced beef. Cows don't magically appear in the slaughterhouse. They are raised and fed antibiotics and all sorts of other things ingredients (I've heard people try to scare about soy being in meat replacements not realizing that it is one of the primary ingredients fed to cows). I am not much one for ingredient scaring, but if you are, it's easy to do with beef too.
So 7 disagrees but no quoted responses. I'd love to hear the disagreements, besides my personal preference for them (trust me, if you had a regular burger cookoed by me, you'd get it)6 -
just_Tomek wrote: »I watched a talk show with Marco Borges, saying plant-based is the healthy way to go. BUT avoid fake meat because it's all highly processed.
Opinions? Just curious.
Is it to be avoided... nope. Unless you want to save money, then yeap.
Is it highly processed... yeap. Just look at the ingredients.
I would never buy it, high in calories, low in protein, low in nutrients and way way overpriced.... comparing to meat.
LOL well that answers that!
It really depends. I never eat it since I'm not really interested in meat substitutes, but here's one taste test:
https://www.foodandwine.com/news/plant-based-burger-taste-test
For cal and protein comparison (note: the reason my numbers are different from Mike's, who posted when I was writing this, is that I converted the plant burgers from 4 oz to 100 g):
Impossible 2.0 (100 g) has 212 cal and 17 g of protein.
Beyond Burger (100 g) has 221 cal and 18 g of protein.
Lifeline Burger (100 g) has 239 cal and 18 g of protein.
MorningStar Vegan Burger (100 g) has 248 cal and 24 g of protein.
By comparison, 80% lean beef burger is 254 cal and 17 g of protein, although of course one can get a 90% lean for 176 cal and 20 g of protein or 95% lean for 137 cal and 21 g of protein. So it depends on how you think it tastes, how much you care about the fat quantity (either for taste -- some don't like lean ground beef, although I do -- or otherwise), and what type of burger one is comparing it with.
I have no clue about the cost vs. different kinds of ground beef, since I haven't purchased any of them.
Awesome! That per 100 g comparison sure comes in handy.3 -
My family is vegan so we like to go out for beyond burgers as a rare treat but I would never call them healthy. As for fake meats, we mainly use the veggie nuggets for our kids who love them but overall I like to focus on healthier, more nutritious foods. However, I see nothing wrong with enjoying them in moderation.6
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Think of processed meat replacements like any other processed thing and/or fast food. If you enjoy it, have it as an occasional treat. Good for the earth but not great for your body. If you are doing it for your health.... limit (or cut out) processed.
So yogurt, protein powder, kimchi, canned tomato sauce with a sheer lack of ingredients (tomatoes, onions, olive oil, salt, pepper, garlic, basil, and oregano), frozen peas (because lord knows peas are only in season for so long) are all "not great for your body"?
This is one of many reasons why this whole "processed foods are bad for you" doesn't hold water because the definition of processed is very broad. The preserved lemons that are curing in my pantry are processed, and the only ingredients are meyer lemons, salt, and maybe a tbsp of water. They're not something I'd recommend to anyone who needs to watch their salt intake, but they are bad neither for me nor the environment, unless you're arguing that shipping meyer lemons from California to Oregon is bad for the environment (and shipping the salt for where ever it's processed to here which is likely a longer distance), which is a very different (but valid) discussion.
The "bone broth" that so many people are raving about and buying in the stores is also processed, as is the homemade chicken stock and beef stock that is in my freezer despite my knowing all of the ingredients that I put into said stock.12 -
I try to avoid too much processed food but in moderation is ok. I do eat veggie burgers regularly and beyond meat products sometimes. I don’t eat them every day. They are high in protein which is good for me since I eat mostly plants.
Sometimes i crave that meaty taste since I was raised on meat and enjoy the taste but also love animals and refuse to eat them anymore.3 -
I'm really surprised by some of the price comparisons in this thread. However, I guess you get a lot more super cheap feed lot raised cheap end beef in the US.
One of the higher end Burger joints here has started selling the Beyond Burger. Their standard Cheese Burger is 109SEK (11.31USD) and the same burger with a Beyond patty is 119SEK (12.35USD).
Having tried the Beyond patty IMHO it wasn't bad by any means but the meat version is way better so I would always order that.
That said there's a brand here called Annama that do a soy protein that I substitute for mince (ground beef or turkey) in things like Chilli, Taco's or Bolognese exclusively now. I can't really tell the difference in those recipes and my wife and daughter don't really like eating red meat so when not.
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Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
And I disagree that it's all just food. Tell me canned fruit cocktail is just as good for you as real fruit. It'd do in a pinch but other than that.....
Why does canned fruit cocktail have to be just as good for you as "real" fruit to be considered just another food? If I've already eaten plenty of produce today, or of it's the middle of winter in a part of the world where fresh fruit simply isn't available right now, why is the fruit in canned fruit cocktail not really fruit?
I would venture a guess the person that disrespected canned fruit cocktail was talking about the kinds packaged in "heavy syrup", i.e, a bunch of added sugar, as opposed to the fruit in its own juice.4 -
Think of processed meat replacements like any other processed thing and/or fast food. If you enjoy it, have it as an occasional treat. Good for the earth but not great for your body. If you are doing it for your health.... limit (or cut out) processed.
So yogurt, protein powder, kimchi, canned tomato sauce with a sheer lack of ingredients (tomatoes, onions, olive oil, salt, pepper, garlic, basil, and oregano), frozen peas (because lord knows peas are only in season for so long) are all "not great for your body"?
This is one of many reasons why this whole "processed foods are bad for you" doesn't hold water because the definition of processed is very broad. The preserved lemons that are curing in my pantry are processed, and the only ingredients are meyer lemons, salt, and maybe a tbsp of water. They're not something I'd recommend to anyone who needs to watch their salt intake, but they are bad neither for me nor the environment, unless you're arguing that shipping meyer lemons from California to Oregon is bad for the environment (and shipping the salt for where ever it's processed to here which is likely a longer distance), which is a very different (but valid) discussion.
The "bone broth" that so many people are raving about and buying in the stores is also processed, as is the homemade chicken stock and beef stock that is in my freezer despite my knowing all of the ingredients that I put into said stock.
Good grief, I guess I need to be 100% perfectly clear with the words 'processed foods'. Ultra processed as opposed to mildly or very little process. I think we all know the difference. Pepperoni or hot dogs(unless they're 100% organic/natural/homemade, etc.) for example, unless you make your own and you know specifically what goes into it. Ultra sugared cereals that have all the good grains taken out only to have vitamins sprayed back in. Any of the Little Debbie type stuff(AFAIK) are all ultra processed. Canned fruit cocktail as opposed to a piece of fresh fruit, no matter what season we're in, will never IMO be as healthy as that plain piece of fresh fruit. Sure, it's fine to eat, but in moderation. Milk, bread, meat, oatmeal, rice, vegs/fruits, they've all been processed to a point. And as far as the canned fruit cocktail comparison it was just the 1st thing that came to my mind.
TO ME, eating an apple or a couple clementines is a healthier choice. I'm not saying give up processed foods but I believe the less processing a food goes through(IOW less flavors/colors/additives) the better for our bodies.
You can pick apart just about any food and say it's been processed. To an extent. I kind of figured(or hoped!) you know what I meant. 7 -
Think of processed meat replacements like any other processed thing and/or fast food. If you enjoy it, have it as an occasional treat. Good for the earth but not great for your body. If you are doing it for your health.... limit (or cut out) processed.
So yogurt, protein powder, kimchi, canned tomato sauce with a sheer lack of ingredients (tomatoes, onions, olive oil, salt, pepper, garlic, basil, and oregano), frozen peas (because lord knows peas are only in season for so long) are all "not great for your body"?
This is one of many reasons why this whole "processed foods are bad for you" doesn't hold water because the definition of processed is very broad. The preserved lemons that are curing in my pantry are processed, and the only ingredients are meyer lemons, salt, and maybe a tbsp of water. They're not something I'd recommend to anyone who needs to watch their salt intake, but they are bad neither for me nor the environment, unless you're arguing that shipping meyer lemons from California to Oregon is bad for the environment (and shipping the salt for where ever it's processed to here which is likely a longer distance), which is a very different (but valid) discussion.
The "bone broth" that so many people are raving about and buying in the stores is also processed, as is the homemade chicken stock and beef stock that is in my freezer despite my knowing all of the ingredients that I put into said stock.
Good grief, I guess I need to be 100% perfectly clear with the words 'processed foods'. Ultra processed as opposed to mildly or very little process. I think we all know the difference. Pepperoni or hot dogs(unless they're 100% organic/natural/homemade, etc.) for example, unless you make your own and you know specifically what goes into it. Ultra sugared cereals that have all the good grains taken out only to have vitamins sprayed back in. Any of the Little Debbie type stuff(AFAIK) are all ultra processed. Canned fruit cocktail as opposed to a piece of fresh fruit, no matter what season we're in, will never IMO be as healthy as that plain piece of fresh fruit. Sure, it's fine to eat, but in moderation. Milk, bread, meat, oatmeal, rice, vegs/fruits, they've all been processed to a point. And as far as the canned fruit cocktail comparison it was just the 1st thing that came to my mind. TO ME, eating an apple or a couple clementines is a healthier choice. I'm not saying give up processed foods but I believe the less processing a food goes through(IOW less flavors/colors/additives) the better for our bodies.
You can pick apart just about any food and say it's been processed. To an extent. I kind of figured(or hoped!) you know what I meant.
I think the point is that processing (even ultra processing) doesn't mean much for health as a label without context. Protein powder is ultra processed but it's great for health if you find it hard to get enough protein. The "processed" and "ultra processed" labels are just general guidelines that were used to help people eat more nutritionally dense products because a lot (not all) of ultra processed foods are high in calories and low in nutrition. They aren't unhealthy in isolation, but overeating them makes it harder to meet your overall nutritional needs if you don't know how to balance your nutrition. As all general guidelines, they're too generalized and can be more limiting than helpful if you're actually logging your food intake and know how meet your needs.10 -
Think of processed meat replacements like any other processed thing and/or fast food. If you enjoy it, have it as an occasional treat. Good for the earth but not great for your body. If you are doing it for your health.... limit (or cut out) processed.
So yogurt, protein powder, kimchi, canned tomato sauce with a sheer lack of ingredients (tomatoes, onions, olive oil, salt, pepper, garlic, basil, and oregano), frozen peas (because lord knows peas are only in season for so long) are all "not great for your body"?
This is one of many reasons why this whole "processed foods are bad for you" doesn't hold water because the definition of processed is very broad. The preserved lemons that are curing in my pantry are processed, and the only ingredients are meyer lemons, salt, and maybe a tbsp of water. They're not something I'd recommend to anyone who needs to watch their salt intake, but they are bad neither for me nor the environment, unless you're arguing that shipping meyer lemons from California to Oregon is bad for the environment (and shipping the salt for where ever it's processed to here which is likely a longer distance), which is a very different (but valid) discussion.
The "bone broth" that so many people are raving about and buying in the stores is also processed, as is the homemade chicken stock and beef stock that is in my freezer despite my knowing all of the ingredients that I put into said stock.
Sure, it's fine to eat, but in moderation. /
By the very definition of moderation, everything should be eaten in moderation. Eating broccoli immoderately isn't going to work out well for me just because it's unprocessed. It's either going to crowd out other things I need (if I stick to a calorie goal) or cause weight gain (if it causes me to eat too many calories). Now the quantity of food that qualifies as "moderate" is going to vary by the particulars of the food, but if I decide to eat too much of anything.
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Stockholm_Andy wrote: »I'm really surprised by some of the price comparisons in this thread. However, I guess you get a lot more super cheap feed lot raised cheap end beef in the US.
If you mean my comparison of WF ground beef vs. the Beyond Burger, it's not likely to be "super cheap" and was identified as pastured, although depending on how they use the labels could have been corn finished on a feedlot, which is common not only for low end beef.
It's actually possible to get ground beef quite a bit cheaper than the WF priced ones I gave, but I thought comparing more like products likely to be purchased by similar buyers made more sense (which is why I also showed a couple of more expensive ground beef options too).
Of course, ANY non fast food restaurant burger is going to cost quite a bit more than ground beef in the grocery store, which is the comparison you are giving. The prices you identify are consistent with what I could get a burger for at, say, a local pub.2 -
Think of processed meat replacements like any other processed thing and/or fast food. If you enjoy it, have it as an occasional treat. Good for the earth but not great for your body. If you are doing it for your health.... limit (or cut out) processed.
So yogurt, protein powder, kimchi, canned tomato sauce with a sheer lack of ingredients (tomatoes, onions, olive oil, salt, pepper, garlic, basil, and oregano), frozen peas (because lord knows peas are only in season for so long) are all "not great for your body"?
This is one of many reasons why this whole "processed foods are bad for you" doesn't hold water because the definition of processed is very broad. The preserved lemons that are curing in my pantry are processed, and the only ingredients are meyer lemons, salt, and maybe a tbsp of water. They're not something I'd recommend to anyone who needs to watch their salt intake, but they are bad neither for me nor the environment, unless you're arguing that shipping meyer lemons from California to Oregon is bad for the environment (and shipping the salt for where ever it's processed to here which is likely a longer distance), which is a very different (but valid) discussion.
The "bone broth" that so many people are raving about and buying in the stores is also processed, as is the homemade chicken stock and beef stock that is in my freezer despite my knowing all of the ingredients that I put into said stock.
Good grief, I guess I need to be 100% perfectly clear with the words 'processed foods'. Ultra processed as opposed to mildly or very little process. I think we all know the difference.
Again, the kale and white bean patties I mentioned upthread (and listed the ingredients) are unquestionably highly or ultra processed according to the usual definition, and would also fall into the meat replacement or burger replacement category. Other than being poor meat replacements because of the low amount of protein (NOT a problem with the meat replacements Borges dislikes), I don't see how they are nutritionally poor or bad for us because of the processing. And I really am curious why they would be, as if you mean to exclude those products, as well as the ones @aokoye mentioned, I am not able to follow how "processed" or "ultraprocessed" is being used (I would also share his view that the trendy store-packaged "bone broth" is absolutely an ultraprocessed product, and that made at home a processed one also).Canned fruit cocktail as opposed to a piece of fresh fruit, no matter what season we're in, will never IMO be as healthy as that plain piece of fresh fruit.
Because it's canned or because the kinds you are familiar with have sugar added?
I don't consume canned fruit as I prefer frozen (I did as a kid when fruit was out of season and lived to tell the tale), and I also don't get adding sugar to fruit ever unless one is making a pie or other dessert, because fruit is already quite sweet. However, I do eat canned tomatoes, especially when tomatoes are out of season, and use them in some sauces all year round. They are not high sodium and have no non tomato added ingredients, but they are processed (I'll note that when cooking with them some (including me) will of course go on to add salt and others (although not me) even sugar (this is commonly recommended in perfectly reputable Italian cookbooks) when cooking with them). I just don't see how the canning makes them bad for us, which is what one is saying when one focuses on "processing." (I am thinking about canning my own if I get another good tomato crop this year.)
I think the point that what is really being discussed is not processing per se but the addition or subtraction of specific ingredients is an important one, and merely discussing if something is processed or not or dismissing it as obviously less desirable because processed is not all particularly informative (or in some cases accurate). If not, I am curious what's nutritionally problematic about the white bean patties I discussed above.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »YellowD0gs wrote: »As the plant-based meats run about 7x higher in Sodium content over ground beef...pretty much a will-not-touch-unless starving choice for me, and those on Sodium restricted diets should really give a long hard look.
The majority of plant-based meats are designed to be eaten with little additional seasoning, so comparing them to ground beef in sodium content doesn't really make sense, as most people are adding seasoning to ground beef.
It would be more accurate to compare these products to the average hamburger patty, which in many cases has sodium added to it, at least in restaurants.
This post misses the point. People on a sodium restricted diet are limited to 1,500 mg/day Na (at least in the US). They're also likely on that diet because of a diagnosed medical issue (hypertension, heart disease, stroke, etc), so it's not really something they're doing by choice. Comparing raw material to raw material is exactly proper and accurate, as those on a sodium restricted diet are most likely NOT ADDING SALT during preparation. It defeats the point. Evaluating only the raw materials, one Beyond Burger 4 oz. patty has 390 mg sodium. That's 26% of the daily limit tied up in one single patty, and doesn't count the additional sodium contained in the ketchup, mustard, special sauce, bacon, cheese, and bun. All told, the Burger King reports the Impossible Burger at 1,240 mg sodium, or 83% of the daily limit. A direct comparison to 85/15 ground beef shows 81 mg sodium in a 4 ounce patty, or 5% daily limit. Burger King also reports 980 mg sodium (65%) for the regular Whopper, even with the assumed "salt added during preparation". The difference between the 2? 18% of the daily sodium limit, which is pretty obviously the result of choosing a high sodium content patty to start with. So, being on a low sodium diet, I'll generally avoid the Beyond Burger things unless absolutely necessary for one simple reason, sodium.6 -
Anyone who has health issues requiring extreme care in sticking to consistently low sodium diets should avoid fast food burgers in general, as well as burgers cooked at any restaurant, as from my experience with something like a local burger joint or pub burger, they will almost surely end up with more than 320 mg of sodium added through salt (and this assumes one does not order something like fries too, of course).
My dad avoids red meat because it has been shown to reduce his bad cholesterol (he has successfully controlled his cholesterol for years avoiding red meat and dairy fat except for rare special occasions -- he was never overweight or inactive, although getting even leaner and more active has helped some too). But it would not be a good argument for me to say that people should avoid beef burgers or that beef burgers are a problematic food in general just because for my dad they are a rare special occasion thing.5 -
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I feel like when we get into the processed/unprocessed debate, we always get lost in the weeds of defining terms. To me, the specific definitions don't matter. The "healthiness" of individual foods can only be determined in the context of someone's whole diet.
Someone eating a well-balanced variable diet can eat some processed and even ultra-processed foods and still be eating a nutritious healthy diet. Someone who is eating nothing but cruciferous vegetables all day, if given the choice between eating some chicken nuggets or a bowl of broccoli for dinner, should without a doubt choose the chicken nuggets. Fresh fruit is generally a better choice than fruit canned in syrup, but if you're snowed in and have no other produce in the house, there are still nutrients in that canned fruit that your body can use.
The need to micro-manage some kind of universal "healthiness" scale for individual foods is a waste of time, and there is no need to eat a diet made up of 100% all the absolute best most nutritious foods that exist. Humans have not just survived but thrived by eating literally whatever was available. If you are making an effort to monitor your diet and make sure you are getting enough protein, fat, fiber, and fruit/veggie servings at an appropriate calorie level, you will be eating a healthier diet than the vast majority of human beings that have ever lived.16 -
@jm_1234
From your link: "According to these standards, virtually all foods sold in the supermarket would be classified as “processed” to some degree. Because food begins to deteriorate and lose nutrients as soon as it is harvested, even the apples in the produce aisle undergo four or more processing steps before being sold to the consumer. That’s why in practice, it’s helpful to differentiate between the various degrees of food processing."
The first sentence is true. The last, IMO, is not. I ask anyone who is committed to this focus (either the OP or perhaps you, @jm_1234, why focusing on how food is defined in terms of processing is somehow more helpful than just, you know, understanding what's in it (such as by reading the label) and making judgments that way.
This is all an offshoot of the bizarre adoration people have for the Brazilian categorizing of foods by processing, with each level of processing being a greater negative (which IMO is a weird way to approach food and not helpful when it comes to discussions of nutrition or weight management).
Among other things, the categories are confusing (and seem to have nothing between "processed" and "ultraprocessed" leading to confusion.
I think the vast majority of people would agree with me that the Engine2 frozen bean patty I discussed above (which did have "natural flavors") would be a highly processed or ultraprocessed product (since most will equate highly and ultraprocessed and its not minimally processed), yet I still haven't heard why it would be a bad thing to eat.
I also personally find the -- counter-intuitive and difficult to parce -- Brazilian definition of ultraprocessed food (as distinct from merely highly processed foods or packaged products with generally good nutrition profiles) to be unhelpful and more likely to complicate things. Like basically you have to understand what something is to properly categorize it, so why bother categorizing it then?
And it seems reasonable to me that most would consider something like Ezekiel bread or the Engine2 product I mentioned or chips (even if made with only potatoes, oil, and salt, as many are) to be "ultraprocessed" but I am not sure whether they would be included in the definition or not. It does seem that my homemade cookies might not be, whatever their nutritional profile, and that seiten homemade from wheat gluten might be, but might not be, but some bought in the store and flavored (even similarly to how I might flavor them at home) would be. And then there's protein powder, as brought up previously, which certainly would be ultraprocessed under any normal definition (and maybe this one?).
More significantly, and this is a question that I'd really like an answer to, I have seen absolutely nothing that would explain why less processed would always be better (as this focus on processing suggests). I rely on tofu and tempeh for protein, for example. More significantly, in the winter frozen fruit and veg or canned tomatoes might be a better option, canned beans may make cooking beans more possible with no loss of nutrients, and frozen fish (or previously frozen fish) may be the only option in some areas. Why try to make people think they are choosing a less desirable option when there's no evidence that actually supports such a claim? And that is what the obsessive focus on "processing" rather than other more relevant considerations like actual nutrition profile or actual ingredients does IMO.Also, there were a few comments about local grass fed meat. My dad's ranch has grass fed free range no drug cows, but he sprays the heck out of the grass with roundup. So just keep in mind grass fed doesn't mean organic, and for some unethical businesses organic doesn't mean organic.
Not sure if this is supposed to mean my offhanded comment about the types of beef I was pricing out here, as I don't recall any discussion about grassfed beef, but I certainly made no claims about whether or not items were organic (I personally do care more about grassfed and finished and local and no routine antibodies than organic, but I also just don't recall it coming up and am a little paranoid therefore that my posts were being misread as about something they obviously were not).4 -
Yes it is a processed food. Its actually an ultra processed food and for optimal health these should be kept at a minimum. That being said a burger of any sort has never been considered a healthy food option. The plant based burgers have just as many fat grams and calories as their animal based cousins. They are an ethical option if anything.
Why so?4 -
Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Sigh.
Of course I do me. I just saw something on tv and wanted a variety of opinions is all; figured this was the place to come if I wanted some intelligent conversation about a topic. I Don't know anything about Beyond Burgers and simply asked. I like veggie burgers, I eat meat and meatless so I'm not biased either way. The show didn't go into detail about what goes into the processing of it, what chemicals, etc. but I know other processed foods contain high numbers of artificial flavors and coloring, sodium, sugar, etc., all of which are being proven to be unhealthy in large quantities. And some processed foods have all the goodness taken out only to get sprayed with vitamins during the process. Processed foods aren't all that great; do I eat them? He!! yeh I do. Just sayin'.
And I disagree that it's all just food. Tell me canned fruit cocktail is just as good for you as real fruit. It'd do in a pinch but other than that.....
Obviously, coffee is making me grumpy.
With the exception of water, corn syrup and a little sugar, all the ingredients in canned fruit cocktail are fruit.
The corn syrup and sugar would add a few extra calories but otherwise it's just fruit. How does it matter that it comes out of a can instead of the produce aisle?8 -
And if the corn syrup and sugar bother you that much, you can dump the contents of the can into a colander and rinse. (Taste suffers a bit, but well, that's why they put the sugar syrup in the can in the first place.)7
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Think of processed meat replacements like any other processed thing and/or fast food. If you enjoy it, have it as an occasional treat. Good for the earth but not great for your body. If you are doing it for your health.... limit (or cut out) processed.
So yogurt, protein powder, kimchi, canned tomato sauce with a sheer lack of ingredients (tomatoes, onions, olive oil, salt, pepper, garlic, basil, and oregano), frozen peas (because lord knows peas are only in season for so long) are all "not great for your body"?
This is one of many reasons why this whole "processed foods are bad for you" doesn't hold water because the definition of processed is very broad. The preserved lemons that are curing in my pantry are processed, and the only ingredients are meyer lemons, salt, and maybe a tbsp of water. They're not something I'd recommend to anyone who needs to watch their salt intake, but they are bad neither for me nor the environment, unless you're arguing that shipping meyer lemons from California to Oregon is bad for the environment (and shipping the salt for where ever it's processed to here which is likely a longer distance), which is a very different (but valid) discussion.
The "bone broth" that so many people are raving about and buying in the stores is also processed, as is the homemade chicken stock and beef stock that is in my freezer despite my knowing all of the ingredients that I put into said stock.
Good grief, I guess I need to be 100% perfectly clear with the words 'processed foods'. Ultra processed as opposed to mildly or very little process. I think we all know the difference. Pepperoni or hot dogs(unless they're 100% organic/natural/homemade, etc.) for example, unless you make your own and you know specifically what goes into it. Ultra sugared cereals that have all the good grains taken out only to have vitamins sprayed back in. Any of the Little Debbie type stuff(AFAIK) are all ultra processed. Canned fruit cocktail as opposed to a piece of fresh fruit, no matter what season we're in, will never IMO be as healthy as that plain piece of fresh fruit. Sure, it's fine to eat, but in moderation. Milk, bread, meat, oatmeal, rice, vegs/fruits, they've all been processed to a point. And as far as the canned fruit cocktail comparison it was just the 1st thing that came to my mind. TO ME, eating an apple or a couple clementines is a healthier choice. I'm not saying give up processed foods but I believe the less processing a food goes through(IOW less flavors/colors/additives) the better for our bodies.
You can pick apart just about any food and say it's been processed. To an extent. I kind of figured(or hoped!) you know what I meant.
As others have already pointed out (yay time zones!), the point is that something being processed does not make it inherently bad for you nor the earth. Also with regards to your point about less processing equally more flavor, this actually isn't always the case. Frozen vegetables like corn and peas are actually far more flavorful than their fresh cousins unless you're growing it and cooking/eating it very soon after harvesting. It's an issue of being able to preserve (freeze in this case) the produce shortly after it's been picked vs letting it sit around. The Guardian wrote about this, but I've heard this from other sources as well - https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/01/are-frozen-fruit-and-vegetables-as-good-for-you-as-fresh
Organic food is also not inherently better for you and doesn't have anything to do with how processed or unprocessed an item is. I personally am far more interested in buying food that is produced/farmed locally as much as I reasonably can than I am about buying food that is organic or less processed.2 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »And if the corn syrup and sugar bother you that much, you can dump the contents of the can into a colander and rinse. (Taste suffers a bit, but well, that's why they put the sugar syrup in the can in the first place.)
Each to their own on the bolded. I have no problem eating canned fruit in it's own juice, The stuff in the "heavy syrup" tastes like *kitten* to me.3 -
Think of processed meat replacements like any other processed thing and/or fast food. If you enjoy it, have it as an occasional treat. Good for the earth but not great for your body. If you are doing it for your health.... limit (or cut out) processed.
Again, the white bean patties I mentioned in the post immediately above yours are highly processed. Why is something like that bad for one's body (assuming one has sufficient protein in the overall diet that day)?
You're misquoting me... I didn't say it's bad... I said it's "not great". Fresh, whole foods are generally better for health. OP specifically mentioned Beyond Meat, which is not made of whole foods for health, but various food products intended to mimic meat and its nutrients. It's "not great". I reiterate that I believe in enjoying all foods, even if they're not healthful, but in moderation.5 -
Think of processed meat replacements like any other processed thing and/or fast food. If you enjoy it, have it as an occasional treat. Good for the earth but not great for your body. If you are doing it for your health.... limit (or cut out) processed.
So yogurt, protein powder, kimchi, canned tomato sauce with a sheer lack of ingredients (tomatoes, onions, olive oil, salt, pepper, garlic, basil, and oregano), frozen peas (because lord knows peas are only in season for so long) are all "not great for your body"?
This is one of many reasons why this whole "processed foods are bad for you" doesn't hold water because the definition of processed is very broad. The preserved lemons that are curing in my pantry are processed, and the only ingredients are meyer lemons, salt, and maybe a tbsp of water. They're not something I'd recommend to anyone who needs to watch their salt intake, but they are bad neither for me nor the environment, unless you're arguing that shipping meyer lemons from California to Oregon is bad for the environment (and shipping the salt for where ever it's processed to here which is likely a longer distance), which is a very different (but valid) discussion.
The "bone broth" that so many people are raving about and buying in the stores is also processed, as is the homemade chicken stock and beef stock that is in my freezer despite my knowing all of the ingredients that I put into said stock.
Yes, when you use the broad definition of processed, I agree. I was identifying a) processed meat replacement and b) fast food items. I don't think it's a fair conclusion that I am advocating against kimchi and preserved lemons lol. I am also simply responding to OP's question... not suggesting that all people must be perfect at all times. Certainly, I eat processed foods.
I also disagree that your homemade soup stock falls under the common use of the term "processed". But apart from that, no difference of opinion really.2 -
Think of processed meat replacements like any other processed thing and/or fast food. If you enjoy it, have it as an occasional treat. Good for the earth but not great for your body. If you are doing it for your health.... limit (or cut out) processed.
Again, the white bean patties I mentioned in the post immediately above yours are highly processed. Why is something like that bad for one's body (assuming one has sufficient protein in the overall diet that day)?
You're misquoting me... I didn't say it's bad... I said it's "not great". Fresh, whole foods are generally better for health. OP specifically mentioned Beyond Meat, which is not made of whole foods for health, but various food products intended to mimic meat and its nutrients. It's "not great". I reiterate that I believe in enjoying all foods, even if they're not healthful, but in moderation.
Perhaps it was a misunderstanding or we are talking past each other. "Good for the earth but not great for the body" reads to me as if you are saying "not good for the body."
As others (like @aokoye) have pointed out, fresh is not always possible, and if we are carting it in from far away may actually have many fewer nutrients than something processed (like canned tomatoes or frozen strawberries or peas or broccoli).
You seemed to be generalizing about processed foods as a whole (and specifically about processed meat substitutes as a whole), and that's why I asked about a specific product in that category (the Engine2 white bean patties) that most certainly is processed, but seems nutritious and good for you to me (I have no particular investment in the product, just saw it when I was pricing out options earlier in the thread).
As you still seem to be equating "not healthful" and "processed" (see your last sentence), I repeat the question. (I certainly would agree that specific highly processed foods, like specific less/minimally processed foods, may not have a particularly great set of ingredients or nutritional profile, depending on how you are using it in your diet. But assuming "processed" inherently = bad for you is not, IMO, a helpful or accurate assumption.)4 -
Think of processed meat replacements like any other processed thing and/or fast food. If you enjoy it, have it as an occasional treat. Good for the earth but not great for your body. If you are doing it for your health.... limit (or cut out) processed.
Again, the white bean patties I mentioned in the post immediately above yours are highly processed. Why is something like that bad for one's body (assuming one has sufficient protein in the overall diet that day)?
You're misquoting me... I didn't say it's bad... I said it's "not great". Fresh, whole foods are generally better for health. OP specifically mentioned Beyond Meat, which is not made of whole foods for health, but various food products intended to mimic meat and its nutrients. It's "not great". I reiterate that I believe in enjoying all foods, even if they're not healthful, but in moderation.
Perhaps it was a misunderstanding or we are talking past each other. "Good for the earth but not great for the body" reads to me as if you are saying "not good for the body."
As others (like @aokoye) have pointed out, fresh is not always possible, and if we are carting it in from far away may actually have many fewer nutrients than something processed (like canned tomatoes or frozen strawberries or peas or broccoli).
You seemed to be generalizing about processed foods as a whole (and specifically about processed meat substitutes as a whole), and that's why I asked about a specific product in that category (the Engine2 white bean patties) that most certainly is processed, but seems nutritious and good for you to me (I have no particular investment in the product, just saw it when I was pricing out options earlier in the thread).
As you still seem to be equating "not healthful" and "processed" (see your last sentence), I repeat the question. (I certainly would agree that specific highly processed foods, like specific less/minimally processed foods, may not have a particularly great set of ingredients or nutritional profile, depending on how you are using it in your diet. But assuming "processed" inherently = bad for you is not, IMO, a helpful or accurate assumption.)
No, I think we are more or less on the same page.1
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