Coronavirus prep
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As for going away or not going away, be aware that the 1918 spanish flu variants still circulate today.5
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snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.12 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
This is WHY it's not going away. It's frustrating that some of us haven't seen our family for months and other people are just going to the gym without masks. You can't even get a sense that "we're all in this together" because some people are acting like there is no "us" to even consider.
So, wearing masks is going to make the virus magically disappear? People should wear masks during Flu season, maybe the Flu virus will go away.
Wearing seatbelts doesn't make car accidents "magically disappear," but most people still think it's a reasonable step to take. Why are the options "make it magically vanish" or "do nothing at all"?
I thought comparing this to the flu went out of style once we passed 100,000 dead in the US. Is it coming back now?
You are comparing a think paper masks to seatbelts? Maybe I'll wear a mask to protect myself in case of an accident.
Yes, I'm comparing one protective device to another. If the accident is "I've been infected with COVID-19 and may not know it yet," it's a reasonable device to use.
A seatbelt is just a thin strip of fabric. Yet you presumably use one, because you can comprehend that in a very specific set of circumstances, a thin strip of fabric is just what you need to protect yourself and others around you.23 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
This is what I find so baffling. If we had shut down for a few weeks back in April and instituted contact tracing, this would all be over and we would be back to a 'normal life'.
It's only because people refuse to allow themselves to be minorly inconvenienced that we are stuck in perpetual purgatory.17 -
Deliberate obtuseness doesn’t make it go away. Observing basic guidelines lessens risks. At this point, that’s fact.23
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HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.23 -
janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together.17 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together.
Well said. One is not more important than another; everyone will be more protected and at less risk, doing MORE self-protection as well as practicing good hygiene. Why not live with a few common sense good hygiene practices for awhile; there's nothing particularly difficult about it.
Even an ignoramus like myself, could understand how putting a mask on would cut down the amount of germ transference.
Much like those thin plastic gloves that could rip and tear. Doing *something* is better, kinder and more thoughtful than doing nothing. 13 -
I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
The science and CDC, as the early evidence was absorbed and affected their advice, have been pretty clear that a mask reduces chances of infecting others (if I'm contagious, possibly asymptomatic) a fair bit more than it protects the mask-wearers.
So, yeah, it's not like seatbelts, in that the major effect is protecting others, or (when masks are worn widely), limiting community spread. (In a narrow set of circumstances, a seat belt may prevent my body becoming yet another dangerous moving object that could harm others inside my car in a crash. True, a mask may give me a limited amount of protection - maybe avoid getting the disease if I'm lucky, maybe get a smaller viral load so lighter case.) That's nice, but not the only point.
You keep writing about this like it's all about me, and whether I'm afraid, and how I handle my mask, and whether I sanitize after using (whatever) in public, etc. It's not all about me.
And, yeah, a thing I'm realizing, and feeling kind of stupid not to have realized sooner, is that it might make sense for me to wear masks during flu season, to limit flu spread. One of many differences, IMU, between Covid and common forms of flu is that flu's contagiousness is more nearly coincident with noticeable symptoms, and Covid tends to be asymptomatic at the start, yet still quite contagious. I think, going forward, especially that if I have sniffles or something, I *should* wear a mask if I go out during flu season, even if I think it's probably not the flu. Why wouldn't I do that? It's super easy, might help someone else.24 -
Well I have always shuddered when on a plane or in a crowded movie theatre or restaurant when you hear people coughing up a lung. Even worse when we went to open seating type at work. I am certain my flu in early 2018 was from the workplace.
But yeah, maybe even when/if the Covid19 contagion clears up would it not be nice if mask wearing if you have seasonal allergies or coughing was a "thing". I know we had a gal at work who always wore a mask and I never really knew why. 8 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
To be honest though, isn't this pretty much what most of Europe did in in spring? An now it's coming back there hard.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together.
If a grown adult finishes a major transaction in a public restroom stall and walks right past the sink to the exit door, the opportunity to educate is long past.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
True but the person is probably keeping most of the virus to themselves rather that spreading it around.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together.
If a grown adult finishes a major transaction in a public restroom stall and walks right past the sink to the exit door, the opportunity to educate is long past.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that what that adult is doing is okay, so I'm not sure the point that is being made. If someone was posting here about how they weren't washing their hands after using the restroom, either at home or in public restrooms because it wouldn't result in the complete eradication of illness, most of us would be like "Hey, you should still wash your hands!"9 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
To be honest though, isn't this pretty much what most of Europe did in in spring? An now it's coming back there hard.
I suspect if we had done this as well, it wouldn't be coming back in Europe. Where is it coming from? Is their second wave mostly or entirely organic? I would bet not.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together.
If a grown adult finishes a major transaction in a public restroom stall and walks right past the sink to the exit door, the opportunity to educate is long past.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that what that adult is doing is okay, so I'm not sure the point that is being made. If someone was posting here about how they weren't washing their hands after using the restroom, either at home or in public restrooms because it wouldn't result in the complete eradication of illness, most of us would be like "Hey, you should still wash your hands!"
From your post above:
"The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together"
My point is if an adult doesn't already know to wash their hands we are far past the point where some PSAs in the media or a poster on a bathroom wall will change behavior.7 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
Who is the "no one" that did not want to do your extremely high level plan here? Did you tell someone with the authority to consider it? Or did you just tell a bunch of random people on the internet?
What ifs and cocktail napkin plans are just idle speculation.
9 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together.
If a grown adult finishes a major transaction in a public restroom stall and walks right past the sink to the exit door, the opportunity to educate is long past.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that what that adult is doing is okay, so I'm not sure the point that is being made. If someone was posting here about how they weren't washing their hands after using the restroom, either at home or in public restrooms because it wouldn't result in the complete eradication of illness, most of us would be like "Hey, you should still wash your hands!"
From your post above:
"The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together"
My point is if an adult doesn't already know to wash their hands we are far past the point where some PSAs in the media or a poster on a bathroom wall will change behavior.
I was talking about washing hands in the particular context of how it fits with safe mask wearing, which isn't something that most of us have heard about. Also, many people aren't aware of hand washing throughout the day (like when returning home) to help prevent the spread of diseases, outside of the context of using the bathroom.
But the point is that even if some adults aren't ever going to wash their hands after using the bathroom, that doesn't make it okay public health behavior and it doesn't mean the rest of us should throw up our hands. There are always going to be people doing things that are gross, unsafe, or unsanitary. Frankly, that's all the MORE reason I wash my hands, because I understand some people are going to fall way short of basic health precautions.7 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
To be honest though, isn't this pretty much what most of Europe did in in spring? An now it's coming back there hard.
I suspect if we had done this as well, it wouldn't be coming back in Europe. Where is it coming from? Is their second wave mostly or entirely organic? I would bet not.
Europe has pretty stringent travel restrictions since spring so most likely source is mainly organic
4 -
missysippy930 wrote: »@MikePfirrman
LOL, my daughter took off of work Wednesday, to either recover from celebrating, or, being depressed.
I agree, it could get very nasty. Already some incidences.
I, on the other hand, will be watching Hallmark Christmas movies, and not turn on the news until Wednesday morning.
My husband and I will be binging on season 5 of the sottish show The Outlander. I think that we still have about 5 more episodes before we are done. I will be enjoying the steaming hot love scenes more than what ever scenes takes place in the reality of Election Night.
I am just concerned that I will not be able to sleep too well to night. Maybe double magnesium will help.6
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