Coronavirus prep
Replies
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ExistingFish wrote: »I personally know no one in my life who has died from covid.
I have personal connections to two people who died from the covid vaccine.
Please be respectful of this when pushing the vaccine or denigrating those who choose not to take it.
The thing is, I don’t believe you, because so few people around the world have died following the vaccine that for a single person to know two of them is astronomically unlikely.22 -
So over 50% of the country is fully vaccinated yet we have many more cases now that we did this time last year when 0% were vaccinated and we are told we must get more vaccinated now????? And somehow you are branded a nut if you even ask the question “how can this be???” And please do not try to give me the answer to this question because I assure you no one on this site knows that answer. Nor do I think the Great Dr Fauci himself knows that answer. But yet we can’t ask it. Mind you I am fully vaccinated.11
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Also please explain Explain Israel. They are now on 4th round of vaccine shots in less than a year in a country with well over 90% fully vaccinated. The vaccinated are getting sick. Something is wrong with that picture. Again not allowed to bring that up in main stream media or else you are anti-fill in the blank.13
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JoPat I fear many people are not being as careful now as they were a year ago.
Then there was a significant amount of inconsistency in the way our "betters" convey and conveyed our "best options for avoiding covid", some even likened it to flu! Then there was the way for several weeks before March 2020, we were told there was no point in waring masks because covid was not air-born! Surprise, surprise it was and is. Masks are the first thing Asian populations reach for after their experiences in the early 2000's.
Then we have the supposed "relief" vaccinated person are supposed to feel once they are two weeks out from the second vaccination. I did not feel that elation, I thought, I hope I have done enough to protect those around me. If I go to the shops I wear masks, many don't. I'm careful what I touch, stair rails for example, I cross my fingers and make sure my foot is well on the step, I'm in my 70's after all! Similar goes for escalators. I also only pick up the item I am interested in. I'm not sure others are that careful. I also carry a sanitiser because hand washing is not always convenient. We had a day out in the week near the sea, we kept our distance from others even in the open air, others did not! If walking on a narrow path, I turn my head away from an approaching person having acknowledged them.
I have to accept our individual options are limited to keep ourselves covid free. Even vaccinated, being in proximity to someone with covid could cause transmission if that person is not as honourable as I would hope to be and stay at home and isolate. If I'm out of sorts for any reason, I'll keep myself to myself. Others don't.
The reason I did not feel the elation at being vaccinated is because, no vaccine is 100% effective. As I've said earlier the ones we in the UK, Europe, the US, Canada, Australia and NZ are much better than the ones for illnesses children are regularly vaccinated for but their is still the window of opportunity for us to still catch covid if we do not take care of ourselves and others.
I've not heard anything about the Israelis covid issues. I know it all seemed good their population was vaccinated sooner and to a higher level than many.12 -
So over 50% of the country is fully vaccinated yet we have many more cases now that we did this time last year when 0% were vaccinated and we are told we must get more vaccinated now????? And somehow you are branded a nut if you even ask the question “how can this be???” And please do not try to give me the answer to this question because I assure you no one on this site knows that answer. Nor do I think the Great Dr Fauci himself knows that answer. But yet we can’t ask it. Mind you I am fully vaccinated.
I guess the question is what severity are most of the cases - because I can easily understand how opening up, stopping lockdowns etc means more cases - but if people are vaccinated and many more of the cases are mild then obviously that is still a big improvement.
The other thing, of course, is the emergence of variants like Delta.
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So over 50% of the country is fully vaccinated yet we have many more cases now that we did this time last year when 0% were vaccinated and we are told we must get more vaccinated now????? And somehow you are branded a nut if you even ask the question “how can this be???” And please do not try to give me the answer to this question because I assure you no one on this site knows that answer. Nor do I think the Great Dr Fauci himself knows that answer. But yet we can’t ask it. Mind you I am fully vaccinated.
It's actually quite simple to explain. Both experts and anyone who thinks about it for one minute can understand. Two main factors....
One is the easing of restrictions. People have returned to their normal lives. No capacity limits, no limits on gatherings, schools are fully open, restaurants, concerts and sporting events are packed, and very little mask usage anywhere. Compared to this time last year, when we were in almost total lockdown, it's night and day.
Two is the rise of variants such as Delta. This particular variant is found to be much more transmissible than the original strain.
As far as the vaccine...no, it's not 100 percent effective, everyone knew that going in. But, it has mostly prevented the vaccinated from serious illness. The overwhelming majority of hospitalisations and deaths are among the unvaccinated.
You mention the 50% vaccinated figure. The problem is that it is not 50% spread evenly across the population. Some areas have better than 70%, and guess what? They have ICU beds available and low death rates.
Some regions are below 30% vaccinated, and guess what? Their hospitals are out of ICU beds and are rationing care, causing harm to people who need medical treatment for injuries/illnesses unrelated to COVID.29 -
Completely agree @SuzySunshine99. The infection rate is much higher in regions where the vaccination rate is lower. The more virus load present, the more likely the vaccinated will get sick, though in a smaller percentage than the unvaccinated. The big difference is in the severe illness and death rate. Considerably over 90% of hospitalizations and deaths are among the unvaccinated.11
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So over 50% of the country is fully vaccinated yet we have many more cases now that we did this time last year when 0% were vaccinated and we are told we must get more vaccinated now????? And somehow you are branded a nut if you even ask the question “how can this be???” And please do not try to give me the answer to this question because I assure you no one on this site knows that answer. Nor do I think the Great Dr Fauci himself knows that answer. But yet we can’t ask it. Mind you I am fully vaccinated.
At this time last year, my state and many others were pretty much locked down. At this time last year, I could go to the grocery store and that's pretty much it, and even that was restricted to capacity. My state and most are completely open now going anywhere and everywhere you could go pre-covid. Also, 50% is not across the board...there are states with very high vaccination rates and states with very low vaccination rates.
My state is nowhere near the peak we saw in Nov/Dec/Jan of last year...not even close. We have a very high vaccination rate and around 93% of our COVID hospitalizations are unvaxed.13 -
My current state of MA is also doing much better than our Dec/Jan peak cases.
My former state of FL is not.
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Also please explain Explain Israel. They are now on 4th round of vaccine shots in less than a year in a country with well over 90% fully vaccinated. The vaccinated are getting sick. Something is wrong with that picture. Again not allowed to bring that up in main stream media or else you are anti-fill in the blank.
If you look closely at the data from Israel their death rate right now compared to their infection rate is 1/4 ours. They are getting sick and their death rate is climbing, but it’s to be expected that more people will die when more people get sick. MOST are not dying, but every vaccine does have a failure rate.
This sort of question is answered every day in the news, which leads me to ask, is this a problem with reading comprehension or are you isolating yourself from mainstream news sources? At this point anyone who doesn’t know that the Delta variant is 1000 times more infectious than covid was this time last year doesn’t want to know that information and has made a conscious decision to
pretend not to know it. If you don’t want to know, why ask?19 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Also please explain Explain Israel. They are now on 4th round of vaccine shots in less than a year in a country with well over 90% fully vaccinated. The vaccinated are getting sick. Something is wrong with that picture. Again not allowed to bring that up in main stream media or else you are anti-fill in the blank.
If you look closely at the data from Israel their death rate right now compared to their infection rate is 1/4 ours. They are getting sick and their death rate is climbing, but it’s to be expected that more people will die when more people get sick. MOST are not dying, but every vaccine does have a failure rate.
This sort of question is answered every day in the news, which leads me to ask, is this a problem with reading comprehension or are you isolating yourself from mainstream news sources? At this point anyone who doesn’t know that the Delta variant is 1000 times more infectious than covid was this time last year doesn’t want to know that information and has made a conscious decision to
pretend not to know it. If you don’t want to know, why ask?
Just clarifying to prevent anyone from taking your statement literally, especially after comments about reading comprehension. I went to CDC, their statement on this point is "The Delta variant is more contagious: The Delta variant is highly contagious, more than 2x as contagious as previous variants." Here is the link:https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html13 -
rheddmobile wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »I personally know no one in my life who has died from covid.
I have personal connections to two people who died from the covid vaccine.
Please be respectful of this when pushing the vaccine or denigrating those who choose not to take it.
The thing is, I don’t believe you, because so few people around the world have died following the vaccine that for a single person to know two of them is astronomically unlikely.
Exactly!4 -
So over 50% of the country is fully vaccinated yet we have many more cases now that we did this time last year when 0% were vaccinated and we are told we must get more vaccinated now????? And somehow you are branded a nut if you even ask the question “how can this be???” And please do not try to give me the answer to this question because I assure you no one on this site knows that answer. Nor do I think the Great Dr Fauci himself knows that answer. But yet we can’t ask it. Mind you I am fully vaccinated.
Hardly anyone is masking anymore, everything is open, most people are moving around in public and living their lives like normal, and the Delta variant is far more transmissible. How could we NOT have more cases? I mean, come on, really?!10 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Also please explain Explain Israel. They are now on 4th round of vaccine shots in less than a year in a country with well over 90% fully vaccinated. The vaccinated are getting sick. Something is wrong with that picture. Again not allowed to bring that up in main stream media or else you are anti-fill in the blank.
If you look closely at the data from Israel their death rate right now compared to their infection rate is 1/4 ours. They are getting sick and their death rate is climbing, but it’s to be expected that more people will die when more people get sick. MOST are not dying, but every vaccine does have a failure rate.
This sort of question is answered every day in the news, which leads me to ask, is this a problem with reading comprehension or are you isolating yourself from mainstream news sources? At this point anyone who doesn’t know that the Delta variant is 1000 times more infectious than covid was this time last year doesn’t want to know that information and has made a conscious decision to
pretend not to know it. If you don’t want to know, why ask?
Just clarifying to prevent anyone from taking your statement literally, especially after comments about reading comprehension. I went to CDC, their statement on this point is "The Delta variant is more contagious: The Delta variant is highly contagious, more than 2x as contagious as previous variants." Here is the link:https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html
And I’m just here clarifying that more than twice as contagious is really bad….12 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Also please explain Explain Israel. They are now on 4th round of vaccine shots in less than a year in a country with well over 90% fully vaccinated. The vaccinated are getting sick. Something is wrong with that picture. Again not allowed to bring that up in main stream media or else you are anti-fill in the blank.
If you look closely at the data from Israel their death rate right now compared to their infection rate is 1/4 ours. They are getting sick and their death rate is climbing, but it’s to be expected that more people will die when more people get sick. MOST are not dying, but every vaccine does have a failure rate.
This sort of question is answered every day in the news, which leads me to ask, is this a problem with reading comprehension or are you isolating yourself from mainstream news sources? At this point anyone who doesn’t know that the Delta variant is 1000 times more infectious than covid was this time last year doesn’t want to know that information and has made a conscious decision to
pretend not to know it. If you don’t want to know, why ask?
Just clarifying to prevent anyone from taking your statement literally, especially after comments about reading comprehension. I went to CDC, their statement on this point is "The Delta variant is more contagious: The Delta variant is highly contagious, more than 2x as contagious as previous variants." Here is the link:https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html
And I’m just here clarifying that more than twice as contagious is really bad….
I did not say that twice as bad is not concerning, but twice as contagious and 1000 times infections are very different. I am assuming it was an euphemism but i want to make sure no one it taking that sentence literally.5 -
rheddmobile wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »I personally know no one in my life who has died from covid.
I have personal connections to two people who died from the covid vaccine.
Please be respectful of this when pushing the vaccine or denigrating those who choose not to take it.
The thing is, I don’t believe you, because so few people around the world have died following the vaccine that for a single person to know two of them is astronomically unlikely.
Exactly!
Not comfortable with calling each other liars here. We may have differing opinions, but I go in with the premise that, especially when people are making personal statements, they are telling the truth.6 -
A week or so ago, someone posted a link to a video here. The title was natural immunity vs vaccines, and if I recall it is likely in response to my philosophical struggles. Anyhow, the video covered broader topics than the title implies and it gave me fodder for thought. Last weekend, with friends, I brought up the video, and outlined portion that discusses where and how vaccination doses might best be invested. Note, that I did not take a position on this topic, I just found the topic thought provoking and could make an interesting discussion. No discussion, just blowback was the response. OOOPs.
Anyhow, last night a suggested article popped up. It was a more thorough discussion of this point. Sharing here. This group is very diverse and I am interested in additional viewpoints on this topic. Enjoy!
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/18/1028941909/why-a-push-for-boosters-could-make-the-pandemic-even-worse2 -
A week or so ago, someone posted a link to a video here. The title was natural immunity vs vaccines, and if I recall it is likely in response to my philosophical struggles. Anyhow, the video covered broader topics than the title implies and it gave me fodder for thought. Last weekend, with friends, I brought up the video, and outlined portion that discusses where and how vaccination doses might best be invested. Note, that I did not take a position on this topic, I just found the topic thought provoking and could make an interesting discussion. No discussion, just blowback was the response. OOOPs.
Anyhow, last night a suggested article popped up. It was a more thorough discussion of this point. Sharing here. This group is very diverse and I am interested in additional viewpoints on this topic. Enjoy!
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/18/1028941909/why-a-push-for-boosters-could-make-the-pandemic-even-worse
A dose that is administered as a first or second vaccine to an individual will have much more value both on the individual and societal levels in deterring the virus than a third dose for another individual, and if I could refuse a booster and know that it would be used as a first or second dose for someone else, I would. But those decisions have to made above the individual level, as part of global health policy, because if I refuse a booster, it will just go someone else who is getting a booster or (worse) be tossed when it's been out of the freezer too long.
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A week or so ago, someone posted a link to a video here. The title was natural immunity vs vaccines, and if I recall it is likely in response to my philosophical struggles. Anyhow, the video covered broader topics than the title implies and it gave me fodder for thought. Last weekend, with friends, I brought up the video, and outlined portion that discusses where and how vaccination doses might best be invested. Note, that I did not take a position on this topic, I just found the topic thought provoking and could make an interesting discussion. No discussion, just blowback was the response. OOOPs.
Anyhow, last night a suggested article popped up. It was a more thorough discussion of this point. Sharing here. This group is very diverse and I am interested in additional viewpoints on this topic. Enjoy!
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/18/1028941909/why-a-push-for-boosters-could-make-the-pandemic-even-worse
Considering the hearing the FDA had this week, it looks like they will only be recommending boosters for people over 65, or in some other high risk categories.
I think part of the confusion is that in wealthy countries, it at least seems like the only people who aren't vaxxed have chosen not to, and it's easy to forget that there are areas of the world where people want the shot but have not had access to it yet. And ultimately, in the long term, whether a poor villager half way around the world is vaxxed is just as important as whether my next door neighbor is.12
https://youtu.be/r_Et4PUyS94
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