Coronavirus prep
Replies
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the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to
Re: the black market - it would take a person who was competent in any editing program with access to a decent printer about an hour to make a fake card. In Tennessee they ran out of cards in the early stages so sent a pdf of the form to vax sites with instructions to print their own cards. Not sure how you would tell one printed by a random small county health department from one printed by a random antivaxxer.
I feel like this is all theater since Delta means that you are almost as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated one. There was a time when it could have made a difference but that time has passed.4 -
paperpudding wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.
The main new thing is that he plans to require all employers with 100 or more employees to make sure their employees are vaccinated, or have them test negative on a weekly basis to enter the workplace.10 -
rheddmobile wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to
Re: the black market - it would take a person who was competent in any editing program with access to a decent printer about an hour to make a fake card. In Tennessee they ran out of cards in the early stages so sent a pdf of the form to vax sites with instructions to print their own cards. Not sure how you would tell one printed by a random small county health department from one printed by a random antivaxxer.
I feel like this is all theater since Delta means that you are almost as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated one. There was a time when it could have made a difference but that time has passed.
Your "all theater" remark nailed it!
Closing the gate after all of the livestock has gotten out is counter productive. Now the lawsuits and count lawsuits begin.3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.
The main new thing is that he plans to require all employers with 100 or more employees to make sure their employees are vaccinated, or have them test negative on a weekly basis to enter the workplace.
Thank you.
Yes that could be interesting.
So it is regardless of occupational purpose of the business?
Here in Australia the only mandatory employment so far is Aged Care. All employees must have had at least one dose by Sept 17th.
Temporary exemption for pregnancy ( yes I know you can have the vaccine in pregnancy but they are allowing you to have it after if you choose) and permanent in extremely specific contraindications.
I work in a medical centre and we run covid vaccines clinics.
Had a man last week wanting an exemption because he and his partner were trying to conceive a baby
Became very abusive when Dr refused - naturally since there is no such contraindication and any man could just claim that.
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https://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/kentucky-national-guardsmen-headed-to-local-6-hospitals-next-week/article_783c5460-11ce-11ec-a714-2f36fcf56c99.html
Back ordered medical supplies/meds are an issue as well as staff shortages.1 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
Our state does mandate all students and staff to wear masksTheoldguy1 wrote: »
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.
Well, maybe if they had answered my questions (to TWO different employees) or followed their OWN policies, I would not have.rheddmobile wrote: »About the second time some parent said, “Oh, we knew he had the sniffles but he has fall allergies,” or, “We gave her a Tylenol to bring her fever down because I can’t take time off work to stay with her,” I also would be changing the policy to say all exposed students are treated as symptomatic until proven otherwise.
Do that and at any given time, you will be having over half the school out waiting for covid tests to come back.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Saw that. She needed to have some additional discussion/clarification with the school.
My wife was a supervisor for a special ed district when this all started. They were getting updates on procedures from the state government, regional office of education, seeing things on the news often not the exact same thing.
Got to remember nobody in the school is an expert on handling a pandemic. Need to cut them some slack, they are trying to do the right thing.
Doing the best they can - all they need to do is follow their OWN school system guidelines. Which they were NOT.
INTERESTINGLY enough... my best friend received a call from the school this morning telling HER to come pick up HER children. She flat out refused. Said that they had been vaccinated and that unless they were displaying symptoms, that THEY were in violation of their OWN policy by demanding that she pick them up. That she would be more than happy to bring them a copy of their vaccine card for their records and provide that information.
She was told to email a copy of it to a certain person at the main office, and her children remained in school.
Guess whose son will be in school Monday morning? Unless of course, he seems to get sick between now and then, or is running a temperature. I will check. But assuming all is well, I will email that person, and take him to school a bit late. With a copy of the card as well.
Sounds to me like there's a consistency problem. Employees don't seem to know what the policy is. They need a straightforward plan that is made clear to all and consistently followed.
It's not OK if school officials are negotiating terms with some parents and steamrolling others. Seems that pushier parents are being allowed to email vax cards and keep their kids in class if they insist, while more passive parents are picking their kids up and quarantining, even though the situation is the same. I guess if there isn't a "difficult" parent putting pressure on them, it's easier to just send everyone home and not have to deal.
This is incompetent management. The implementation needs to be equitable. Either all the vaxxed are offered opportunity to prove status and stay in school, or all go home and quarantine. Pick a policy and stick with it.
welcome to our school system.
She had the advantage over me, in that she wasnt caught off guard and had time to go back and re-verify the policy after we had talked the day before, whereas I was in a barn dealing with an animal with a broken leg, keep it safe, me safe, go as quickly as possible (because even though my kid wasnt sick she wanted him gone NOW, and remember dates and info she couldnt be bothered to have a secretary type up a form letter and run off 40 copies for, for the parents).
sigh..... 4 more years. thats all. 4 more years. (of this school system. hopefully not of covid but i wont hold my breath for that, either LOL)8 -
paperpudding wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.
The main new thing is that he plans to require all employers with 100 or more employees to make sure their employees are vaccinated, or have them test negative on a weekly basis to enter the workplace.
Thank you.
Yes that could be interesting.
So it is regardless of occupational purpose of the business?
Here in Australia the only mandatory employment so far is Aged Care. All employees must have had at least one dose by Sept 17th.
Temporary exemption for pregnancy ( yes I know you can have the vaccine in pregnancy but they are allowing you to have it after if you choose) and permanent in extremely specific contraindications.
I work in a medical centre and we run covid vaccines clinics.
Had a man last week wanting an exemption because he and his partner were trying to conceive a baby
Became very abusive when Dr refused - naturally since there is no such contraindication and any man could just claim that.
Tasmanian government has introduced mandatory vaccination deadlines for those working in health settings. Qantas and some other employers have also introduced mandatory vaccination for employees.
This is an interesting read, it's written by the owner of MONA in Tasmania as to why he is requiring employees to have vaccinations https://mona.net.au/blog/2021/09/traffic-lights4 -
paperpudding wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.
The main new thing is that he plans to require all employers with 100 or more employees to make sure their employees are vaccinated, or have them test negative on a weekly basis to enter the workplace.
Thank you.
Yes that could be interesting.
So it is regardless of occupational purpose of the business?
Here in Australia the only mandatory employment so far is Aged Care. All employees must have had at least one dose by Sept 17th.
Temporary exemption for pregnancy ( yes I know you can have the vaccine in pregnancy but they are allowing you to have it after if you choose) and permanent in extremely specific contraindications.
I work in a medical centre and we run covid vaccines clinics.
Had a man last week wanting an exemption because he and his partner were trying to conceive a baby
Became very abusive when Dr refused - naturally since there is no such contraindication and any man could just claim that.
Yes, every employer with 100 or more employees, regardless of the nature of the business.
Many companies were already doing this, including mine, WITHOUT the option of weekly testing instead of vaccination. The government mandate allows you to test weekly if you choose not to get vaccinated. Personally, I believe weekly testing is pointless, but I guess they had to give people that option.
There is precedent for the federal government regulating worker safety issues in private companies, so that should handle the legal challenges.9 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
Our state does mandate all students and staff to wear masksTheoldguy1 wrote: »
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.
Well, maybe if they had answered my questions (to TWO different employees) or followed their OWN policies, I would not have.rheddmobile wrote: »About the second time some parent said, “Oh, we knew he had the sniffles but he has fall allergies,” or, “We gave her a Tylenol to bring her fever down because I can’t take time off work to stay with her,” I also would be changing the policy to say all exposed students are treated as symptomatic until proven otherwise.
Do that and at any given time, you will be having over half the school out waiting for covid tests to come back.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Saw that. She needed to have some additional discussion/clarification with the school.
My wife was a supervisor for a special ed district when this all started. They were getting updates on procedures from the state government, regional office of education, seeing things on the news often not the exact same thing.
Got to remember nobody in the school is an expert on handling a pandemic. Need to cut them some slack, they are trying to do the right thing.
Doing the best they can - all they need to do is follow their OWN school system guidelines. Which they were NOT.
INTERESTINGLY enough... my best friend received a call from the school this morning telling HER to come pick up HER children. She flat out refused. Said that they had been vaccinated and that unless they were displaying symptoms, that THEY were in violation of their OWN policy by demanding that she pick them up. That she would be more than happy to bring them a copy of their vaccine card for their records and provide that information.
She was told to email a copy of it to a certain person at the main office, and her children remained in school.
Guess whose son will be in school Monday morning? Unless of course, he seems to get sick between now and then, or is running a temperature. I will check. But assuming all is well, I will email that person, and take him to school a bit late. With a copy of the card as well.
The biggest problem school districts are facing though all is dealing with the Karens, Kens and their "Special Snowflake" offspring.11 -
Biden also mandated that all government employees, contractors working for the government and entities receiving government money (like hospitals and nursing homes) are required to be 100% vaccinated. They took away the option for weekly tests. I'm not sure whether that will also apply to universities that receive government funds, though since universities have more than 100 employees, they will likely be covered in the new mandates as well.11
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
Our state does mandate all students and staff to wear masksTheoldguy1 wrote: »
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.
Well, maybe if they had answered my questions (to TWO different employees) or followed their OWN policies, I would not have.rheddmobile wrote: »About the second time some parent said, “Oh, we knew he had the sniffles but he has fall allergies,” or, “We gave her a Tylenol to bring her fever down because I can’t take time off work to stay with her,” I also would be changing the policy to say all exposed students are treated as symptomatic until proven otherwise.
Do that and at any given time, you will be having over half the school out waiting for covid tests to come back.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Saw that. She needed to have some additional discussion/clarification with the school.
My wife was a supervisor for a special ed district when this all started. They were getting updates on procedures from the state government, regional office of education, seeing things on the news often not the exact same thing.
Got to remember nobody in the school is an expert on handling a pandemic. Need to cut them some slack, they are trying to do the right thing.
Doing the best they can - all they need to do is follow their OWN school system guidelines. Which they were NOT.
INTERESTINGLY enough... my best friend received a call from the school this morning telling HER to come pick up HER children. She flat out refused. Said that they had been vaccinated and that unless they were displaying symptoms, that THEY were in violation of their OWN policy by demanding that she pick them up. That she would be more than happy to bring them a copy of their vaccine card for their records and provide that information.
She was told to email a copy of it to a certain person at the main office, and her children remained in school.
Guess whose son will be in school Monday morning? Unless of course, he seems to get sick between now and then, or is running a temperature. I will check. But assuming all is well, I will email that person, and take him to school a bit late. With a copy of the card as well.
The biggest problem school districts are facing though all is dealing with the Karens, Kens and their "Special Snowflake" offspring.
And has been going on for 20+ years. The pandemic has woke up this old man as to consciousness divide world wide. It's hard to prep for any pandemic when the divide is so great?
I see the way Covid-19 plays out is more or less set in stone. It's how people will deal the world wide medical and financial fallouts that concerns me. Being 70 my concern is not my generation but the generation of our kids turning 24 on the 24th of this month. How do they prep for the next.
Short term prep due to all kinds of shortages concerns me. I have a new set of tires for the daughter's PU. Since both are in college I hope we are not forced into the car market.5 -
paperpudding wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.
The main new thing is that he plans to require all employers with 100 or more employees to make sure their employees are vaccinated, or have them test negative on a weekly basis to enter the workplace.
Thank you.
Yes that could be interesting.
So it is regardless of occupational purpose of the business?
Here in Australia the only mandatory employment so far is Aged Care. All employees must have had at least one dose by Sept 17th.
Temporary exemption for pregnancy ( yes I know you can have the vaccine in pregnancy but they are allowing you to have it after if you choose) and permanent in extremely specific contraindications.
I work in a medical centre and we run covid vaccines clinics.
Had a man last week wanting an exemption because he and his partner were trying to conceive a baby
Became very abusive when Dr refused - naturally since there is no such contraindication and any man could just claim that.
If I were the doc (and to be clear, I'm not a doc), I would be so tempted to feign misunderstanding and start offering other solutions to his "problem," like Viagra, pumps, surgery, etc.8 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
Our state does mandate all students and staff to wear masksTheoldguy1 wrote: »
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.
Well, maybe if they had answered my questions (to TWO different employees) or followed their OWN policies, I would not have.rheddmobile wrote: »About the second time some parent said, “Oh, we knew he had the sniffles but he has fall allergies,” or, “We gave her a Tylenol to bring her fever down because I can’t take time off work to stay with her,” I also would be changing the policy to say all exposed students are treated as symptomatic until proven otherwise.
Do that and at any given time, you will be having over half the school out waiting for covid tests to come back.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Saw that. She needed to have some additional discussion/clarification with the school.
My wife was a supervisor for a special ed district when this all started. They were getting updates on procedures from the state government, regional office of education, seeing things on the news often not the exact same thing.
Got to remember nobody in the school is an expert on handling a pandemic. Need to cut them some slack, they are trying to do the right thing.
Doing the best they can - all they need to do is follow their OWN school system guidelines. Which they were NOT.
INTERESTINGLY enough... my best friend received a call from the school this morning telling HER to come pick up HER children. She flat out refused. Said that they had been vaccinated and that unless they were displaying symptoms, that THEY were in violation of their OWN policy by demanding that she pick them up. That she would be more than happy to bring them a copy of their vaccine card for their records and provide that information.
She was told to email a copy of it to a certain person at the main office, and her children remained in school.
Guess whose son will be in school Monday morning? Unless of course, he seems to get sick between now and then, or is running a temperature. I will check. But assuming all is well, I will email that person, and take him to school a bit late. With a copy of the card as well.
The biggest problem school districts are facing though all is dealing with the Karens, Kens and their "Special Snowflake" offspring.
yes its a perfect tragedy i expect my perfectly healthy, vaccinated, mask wearing son to be in school during a normal school day. in adherence to the policy the elected school board members created. ironically, not the members I voted for. actually, i take that back. i did vote for the one from our district. i won't in the future but it has nothing to do with this issue. yes i vote. every election. every time. how very karen of me.
back to the topic. this child... hasnt left this house since thursday since i picked him up, 30 minutes after I received the call.
the child who, for the past 18 months has seen literally 2 friends in person. and they live in the same house together. and hes probably only seen them in person a half dozen times? and those kids live in the same house as my best friend. i know, you didnt see that coming, did you?
yup. i am a TOTAL snowflake. call me karen the eskimo.
where is my igloo? i have a paper snowflake chain to make.11 -
paperpudding wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.
The main new thing is that he plans to require all employers with 100 or more employees to make sure their employees are vaccinated, or have them test negative on a weekly basis to enter the workplace.
Thank you.
Yes that could be interesting.
So it is regardless of occupational purpose of the business?
Here in Australia the only mandatory employment so far is Aged Care. All employees must have had at least one dose by Sept 17th.
Temporary exemption for pregnancy ( yes I know you can have the vaccine in pregnancy but they are allowing you to have it after if you choose) and permanent in extremely specific contraindications.
I work in a medical centre and we run covid vaccines clinics.
Had a man last week wanting an exemption because he and his partner were trying to conceive a baby
Became very abusive when Dr refused - naturally since there is no such contraindication and any man could just claim that.
There is mounting evidence that the miscarriage rate in unvaccinated pregnant woman has more or less doubled.
If they’re trying to conceive, getting vaccinated at the first opportunity seems to me like a good idea.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/pregnant-people.html#:~:text=Pregnant people with COVID-,, have been reported.
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tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.
The main new thing is that he plans to require all employers with 100 or more employees to make sure their employees are vaccinated, or have them test negative on a weekly basis to enter the workplace.
Thank you.
Yes that could be interesting.
So it is regardless of occupational purpose of the business?
Here in Australia the only mandatory employment so far is Aged Care. All employees must have had at least one dose by Sept 17th.
Temporary exemption for pregnancy ( yes I know you can have the vaccine in pregnancy but they are allowing you to have it after if you choose) and permanent in extremely specific contraindications.
I work in a medical centre and we run covid vaccines clinics.
Had a man last week wanting an exemption because he and his partner were trying to conceive a baby
Became very abusive when Dr refused - naturally since there is no such contraindication and any man could just claim that.
Tasmanian government has introduced mandatory vaccination deadlines for those working in health settings. Qantas and some other employers have also introduced mandatory vaccination for employees.
This is an interesting read, it's written by the owner of MONA in Tasmania as to why he is requiring employees to have vaccinations https://mona.net.au/blog/2021/09/traffic-lights
Interesting - and oh boy these blogs bring out comments from conspiracy theory nutjobs
Yes I was aware of QANTAS - and I' m sure there are other private employers like MONA making their own organisation rules - but as far as I knew, Aged Care was the only mandated (ie govt imposed) regulation.
Like flu vaccine requirement for Aged Care facilities, this is a federal mandate and therefore nation wide.
I did not know about Tassie state regulation for all health settings.
In SA, where I live and work in a private health setting, it is only Aged Care so far.
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After 8 months I think my long covid has started resolving. My mental fog is lifting and I think that is because of long Covid is resolving and perhaps getting serious about Keto again 2 weeks ago after some bad HDL and triglyceride numbers.15
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rheddmobile wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to
Re: the black market - it would take a person who was competent in any editing program with access to a decent printer about an hour to make a fake card. In Tennessee they ran out of cards in the early stages so sent a pdf of the form to vax sites with instructions to print their own cards. Not sure how you would tell one printed by a random small county health department from one printed by a random antivaxxer.
I feel like this is all theater since Delta means that you are almost as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated one. There was a time when it could have made a difference but that time has passed.
True...but how many people are going to be willing to commit what would be a federal felony offense if caught. It's one thing to present one to some restaurant or entrance to a concert...it's entirely another thing to submit one to your employer as an official document.
You also aren't as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated person because vaccinated people are less likely to get it in the first place. If they have it, yes...they can shed the virus at the same rate...but you have much fewer vaccinated people getting it in the first place vs. unvaxed. You're misinterpreting the data and what the CDC has said.17 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to
Re: the black market - it would take a person who was competent in any editing program with access to a decent printer about an hour to make a fake card. In Tennessee they ran out of cards in the early stages so sent a pdf of the form to vax sites with instructions to print their own cards. Not sure how you would tell one printed by a random small county health department from one printed by a random antivaxxer.
I feel like this is all theater since Delta means that you are almost as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated one. There was a time when it could have made a difference but that time has passed.
True...but how many people are going to be willing to commit what would be a federal felony offense if caught. It's one thing to present one to some restaurant or entrance to a concert...it's entirely another thing to submit one to your employer as an official document.
You also aren't as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated person because vaccinated people are less likely to get it in the first place. If they have it, yes...they can shed the virus at the same rate...but you have much fewer vaccinated people getting it in the first place vs. unvaxed. You're misinterpreting the data and what the CDC has said.
It also appears unlikely that vaccinated shed virus at the same rate, and the shedding seems likely to be limited to vaxxed people with symptoms: https://www.nytimes.com/article/breakthrough-infections-covid-19-coronavirus.html
It's also not theater because if it convinces more people to be vaccinated, that makes a huge difference with the biggest issue now--the threat of hospitals being overwhelmed.11 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to
Re: the black market - it would take a person who was competent in any editing program with access to a decent printer about an hour to make a fake card. In Tennessee they ran out of cards in the early stages so sent a pdf of the form to vax sites with instructions to print their own cards. Not sure how you would tell one printed by a random small county health department from one printed by a random antivaxxer.
I feel like this is all theater since Delta means that you are almost as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated one. There was a time when it could have made a difference but that time has passed.
True...but how many people are going to be willing to commit what would be a federal felony offense if caught. It's one thing to present one to some restaurant or entrance to a concert...it's entirely another thing to submit one to your employer as an official document.
You also aren't as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated person because vaccinated people are less likely to get it in the first place. If they have it, yes...they can shed the virus at the same rate...but you have much fewer vaccinated people getting it in the first place vs. unvaxed. You're misinterpreting the data and what the CDC has said.
It also appears unlikely that vaccinated shed virus at the same rate, and the shedding seems likely to be limited to vaxxed people with symptoms: https://www.nytimes.com/article/breakthrough-infections-covid-19-coronavirus.html
It's also not theater because if it convinces more people to be vaccinated, that makes a huge difference with the biggest issue now--the threat of hospitals being overwhelmed.
I was just going over the August Emergency Response Team report for our state judiciary (who I work for) yesterday with our executive team. August had 31 new positive cases judiciary wide with 3 in my district. A handful of them were found through our weekly testing policy for unvaxed and were asymptomatic. Most were identified after coming down with symptoms...several of them were in pretty bad shape and still not well, one of them is one of my staff who popped August 2 and he's just now kinda feeling about 90% normal. Two hospitalizations judiciary wide. All 31 were unvaxed.12 -
A couple of weeks ago, the school board chair from my long-ago public school system spoke vehemently at a 6-hour county commission meeting against a mask mandate that the county health department had issued for schools.
Today, that system's high school has one of the largest Covid outbreaks in the state, in schools.
Coincidence? 🙄
P.S. County commission said they had no authority to override the health department's legally-issued health orders.
P.P.S. It was a pretty poor school system when I went there, too. Rural poverty area, underfunded with high dropout rate, though possibly up a little now from commuters/bedroom communities in the district.15 -
A couple of weeks ago, the school board chair from my long-ago public school system spoke vehemently at a 6-hour county commission meeting against a mask mandate that the county health department had issued for schools.
Today, that system's high school has one of the largest Covid outbreaks in the state, in schools.
Coincidence? 🙄
P.S. County commission said they had no authority to override the health department's legally-issued health orders.
P.P.S. It was a pretty poor school system when I went there, too. Rural poverty area, underfunded with high dropout rate, though possibly up a little now from commuters/bedroom communities in the district.
There's currently a covid outbreak in a local high school here (Lane Tech). We have a city-wide and CPS mask mandate, and I would expect that Lane Tech has been following it.
Not against it, just saying it's not necessarily a panacea, and for high school I personally would exchange a mask mandate for a vaxx requirement as I think the latter would be more effective (and everyone is eligible).8 -
A couple of weeks ago, the school board chair from my long-ago public school system spoke vehemently at a 6-hour county commission meeting against a mask mandate that the county health department had issued for schools.
Today, that system's high school has one of the largest Covid outbreaks in the state, in schools.
Coincidence? 🙄
P.S. County commission said they had no authority to override the health department's legally-issued health orders.
P.P.S. It was a pretty poor school system when I went there, too. Rural poverty area, underfunded with high dropout rate, though possibly up a little now from commuters/bedroom communities in the district.
There's currently a covid outbreak in a local high school here (Lane Tech). We have a city-wide and CPS mask mandate, and I would expect that Lane Tech has been following it.
Not against it, just saying it's not necessarily a panacea, and for high school I personally would exchange a mask mandate for a vaxx requirement as I think the latter would be more effective (and everyone is eligible).
I'm so grateful to my school district that basically sent an email to all the families a few weeks ago and said, "Everyone is wearing a proper mask, The End." No debates, no arguments: either mask up, enroll in the virtual academy, or homeschool.
Two districts over, though? They were going to go mask optional until our governor issued a statewide mask mandate.8 -
I'm back from vacation and started up at the pool again. At the door we have to hand sanitize, have our temp taken, show our green pass (health system document showing proof of vaccination) and run our membership card through the reader.
I did acquagym today and we have rules posted all over the changing rooms--all clothes and shoes in plastic bags and everything stowed in a locker, and masks must be worn at all times. After the course I go into the changing room and there is a woman there with no mask. She starts a sneezing fit without covering her mouth. I got mad. I told her to get her mask on. She was insulted and started arguing with me. I told her that the entire Fitness Center could get shut down thanks to her. I can't even believe how dumb and selfish some people are.26 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I'm back from vacation and started up at the pool again. At the door we have to hand sanitize, have our temp taken, show our green pass (health system document showing proof of vaccination) and run our membership card through the reader.
I did acquagym today and we have rules posted all over the changing rooms--all clothes and shoes in plastic bags and everything stowed in a locker, and masks must be worn at all times. After the course I go into the changing room and there is a woman there with no mask. She starts a sneezing fit without covering her mouth. I got mad. I told her to get her mask on. She was insulted and started arguing with me. I told her that the entire Fitness Center could get shut down thanks to her. I can't even believe how dumb and selfish some people are.
I'm so sorry! We have some entitled people here who don't think mask rules in stores apply to them because they're vaxxed/healthy/"only running in for one or two things". I've had to move out of one line and into a longer one a couple of times because somebody behind me took their mask off so they could cough. With a fist in front of their mouth
Seriously, I have asthma - if I can manage to cough without taking my mask off, so can you! Or please go outside, which I've had to do a couple of times.
I envy you your gym! Mine has a state-mandated mask requirement, which translates to everyone wears a mask on the way in and takes it off as soon as they're past the front desk. I end up going during off hours when me and another couple of old people are mostly alone in the areas outside the weight room so we can spread out a respectful distance and not infect each other.7 -
I'm in the England, since devolution, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales can do their own thing when it comes to various activities like covid.
English case numbers in Mid September are higher than they were in August. We have more persons in Hospital, and too many deaths.......... Hospital Staff are saying it feels as if winter has come early yet it's been decided its fine for us not to use masks though we may choose to. We are not going to have vaccine passports, for now at least......... Life can be as it used to be...........There are no plans for lockdowns or other actions through winter. Christmas will be fine unlike last Christmas. Those of us who are over 50 and younger vulnerable younger persons will be offered top up Covid vaccine. I wish they would share the vaccine we have, with the countries who only have vaccinated the fewest persons. It has to be the way forward. There is a "new" vaccine going through the various processes, in their wisdom it was decided we needed 1 million doses, now its been decided we will not need them or they will not be taken up as an option for us so, cancelled the contract............. These vaccine were being made in Scotland and could again be used for those in countries much worse off than ourselves, where will the next mutant variant come from? Where it has more of a chance to change.8 -
Just like every other thread I have seen, there is zero mention of those who have actually had Covid. They carry 27x the antibodies than those vaccinated. Why would someone need a vaccine if they have already had Covid? The chances of getting a breakthrough infection of Delta open that person up to yet another infection.
The vaccine does not keep you from getting it. It actually makes you a possible spreader, so why the push if people are showing signs of immunity naturally ? My husband and I both had very mild cases. We take D3, Zinc, Elderberry and a multi-vitamin everyday. We exercise and eat relatively healthy. People have stopped using the real science, and that's to allow our immune systems to do their jobs instead of artificially triggering a response with no idea how it will deal with any future infections, Covid or otherwise.
Wear a mask, sanitize and wash your hands, try to distance as much as you can and stay healthy. If you need to lose weight now is a perfect time to do it so your body can handle the infection as it comes. 90% of the deaths have been to people who are overweight and secondary conditions. We don't push health enough and really didn't care at all during cold (coronavirus) and flu season for the last 100 years.13 -
Anyone who thinks this thread doesn't mention those who have had COVID hasn't read the whole thread. It's a long thread, so no worries about not having read the whole thing, but please don't make claims about this thread as if you have read the whole thing when you clearly have not.25
-
Just like every other thread I have seen, there is zero mention of those who have actually had Covid. They carry 27x the antibodies than those vaccinated. Why would someone need a vaccine if they have already had Covid? The chances of getting a breakthrough infection of Delta open that person up to yet another infection.
The vaccine does not keep you from getting it. It actually makes you a possible spreader, so why the push if people are showing signs of immunity naturally ? My husband and I both had very mild cases. We take D3, Zinc, Elderberry and a multi-vitamin everyday. We exercise and eat relatively healthy. People have stopped using the real science, and that's to allow our immune systems to do their jobs instead of artificially triggering a response with no idea how it will deal with any future infections, Covid or otherwise.
Wear a mask, sanitize and wash your hands, try to distance as much as you can and stay healthy. If you need to lose weight now is a perfect time to do it so your body can handle the infection as it comes. 90% of the deaths have been to people who are overweight and secondary conditions. We don't push health enough and really didn't care at all during cold (coronavirus) and flu season for the last 100 years.
Actually, the best antibody responses (quality) have been in those individuals who had covid, and then we're vaccinated, even if just vaccinated once with an rna vaccine. These individuals produced antibodies that could neutralize all the variants, and even SARS CoV 1 (2003). Now that I'm commuting again, I can keep up with This Week in Virology
.
It is well worth being vaccinated, even if you've been infected in the past.23 -
A couple of weeks ago, the school board chair from my long-ago public school system spoke vehemently at a 6-hour county commission meeting against a mask mandate that the county health department had issued for schools.
Today, that system's high school has one of the largest Covid outbreaks in the state, in schools.
Coincidence? 🙄
P.S. County commission said they had no authority to override the health department's legally-issued health orders.
P.P.S. It was a pretty poor school system when I went there, too. Rural poverty area, underfunded with high dropout rate, though possibly up a little now from commuters/bedroom communities in the district.
There's currently a covid outbreak in a local high school here (Lane Tech). We have a city-wide and CPS mask mandate, and I would expect that Lane Tech has been following it.
Not against it, just saying it's not necessarily a panacea, and for high school I personally would exchange a mask mandate for a vaxx requirement as I think the latter would be more effective (and everyone is eligible).
Any or both would be fine with me.
I suspect my old school district is probably low compliance (mask or vax). I admit, I haven't been to the high school, but I still have enough relatives/friends in that area to have some gauge on viewpoints. I suspect the anti-mask school board chair represents her community fairly accurately, and I would think that parental view on the pandemic would probably extend to the high school students (even at that rebellious age) and affect compliance with good practices, mandated or otherwise. It's not quite in Michigan Militia territory , but not far off either geographically or (I believe) philosophically.6
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