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Coronavirus prep
Replies
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I doubt the school I am talking about is low mask compliance.1
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I doubt the school I am talking about is low mask compliance.
I didn't assume it was. I was simply clarifying that I think the school I was talking about was very likely to be lacking in all of sensible leadership, mask compliance, and vaccination rates . . . which, if true, seems likely to be related to their high Covid numbers compared to other schools.
It's not just that there's an outbreak, but that it is among the biggest school outbreaks in the state - statistically notable in that respect.
It's hard to produce numbers to justify my assumptions, admittedly, though: Things like the vaccination rates are more at the county level, and that district is in a county that is quite diverse, in terms of politics, with both a good sized metro area, and outlying rural areas, a mix of economic levels (geographically regionalized), and diverse in other ways.
It's possible to do pretty much everything right, and still have some Covid outbreaks. Doing things less than right is simply likely to increase the likelihood of an outbreak occurring, and increase the severity of any outbreak that does occur.5 -
Just like every other thread I have seen, there is zero mention of those who have actually had Covid. They carry 27x the antibodies than those vaccinated. Why would someone need a vaccine if they have already had Covid? The chances of getting a breakthrough infection of Delta open that person up to yet another infection.
The vaccine does not keep you from getting it. It actually makes you a possible spreader, so why the push if people are showing signs of immunity naturally ? My husband and I both had very mild cases. We take D3, Zinc, Elderberry and a multi-vitamin everyday. We exercise and eat relatively healthy. People have stopped using the real science, and that's to allow our immune systems to do their jobs instead of artificially triggering a response with no idea how it will deal with any future infections, Covid or otherwise.
Wear a mask, sanitize and wash your hands, try to distance as much as you can and stay healthy. If you need to lose weight now is a perfect time to do it so your body can handle the infection as it comes. 90% of the deaths have been to people who are overweight and secondary conditions. We don't push health enough and really didn't care at all during cold (coronavirus) and flu season for the last 100 years.
No one knows yet how long those who have already had covid will be immune. Could be a month; months or a year or so or longer. Some or most of all of those who had caught early in the piece may well have no antibodies now.
I thought this was sad, children are now suffering or dying because of the choices their parents are making. Here is one story:
https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/texas-girl-4-dies-of-covid19-after-being-infected-by-antivaxxer-mum/news-story/5e496a216a98a04aa0452a8ae91582e67 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to
Re: the black market - it would take a person who was competent in any editing program with access to a decent printer about an hour to make a fake card. In Tennessee they ran out of cards in the early stages so sent a pdf of the form to vax sites with instructions to print their own cards. Not sure how you would tell one printed by a random small county health department from one printed by a random antivaxxer.
I feel like this is all theater since Delta means that you are almost as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated one. There was a time when it could have made a difference but that time has passed.
True...but how many people are going to be willing to commit what would be a federal felony offense if caught. It's one thing to present one to some restaurant or entrance to a concert...it's entirely another thing to submit one to your employer as an official document.
You also aren't as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated person because vaccinated people are less likely to get it in the first place. If they have it, yes...they can shed the virus at the same rate...but you have much fewer vaccinated people getting it in the first place vs. unvaxed. You're misinterpreting the data and what the CDC has said.
It also appears unlikely that vaccinated shed virus at the same rate, and the shedding seems likely to be limited to vaxxed people with symptoms: https://www.nytimes.com/article/breakthrough-infections-covid-19-coronavirus.html
It's also not theater because if it convinces more people to be vaccinated, that makes a huge difference with the biggest issue now--the threat of hospitals being overwhelmed.
I was just going over the August Emergency Response Team report for our state judiciary (who I work for) yesterday with our executive team. August had 31 new positive cases judiciary wide with 3 in my district. A handful of them were found through our weekly testing policy for unvaxed and were asymptomatic. Most were identified after coming down with symptoms...several of them were in pretty bad shape and still not well, one of them is one of my staff who popped August 2 and he's just now kinda feeling about 90% normal. Two hospitalizations judiciary wide. All 31 were unvaxed.
Perhaps if we started charging the unvaxxed (or their estates after they die) for their COVID-related hospital care, it might motivate some people to smarten up. They seem to think they're making a personal choice that is no one else's business, but we ALL pay when they clog up the hospital infrastructure and drain healthcare resources with this nonsense. I'm tired of it. If these people really think COVID is no big deal, they shouldn't be bothered by the concept of making them pay for their care (since they clearly feel they won't need it anyway.) I'm not saying we force anyone to vax. Just make them pay for the consequences of their choices.18 -
tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »Just like every other thread I have seen, there is zero mention of those who have actually had Covid. They carry 27x the antibodies than those vaccinated. Why would someone need a vaccine if they have already had Covid? The chances of getting a breakthrough infection of Delta open that person up to yet another infection.
The vaccine does not keep you from getting it. It actually makes you a possible spreader, so why the push if people are showing signs of immunity naturally ? My husband and I both had very mild cases. We take D3, Zinc, Elderberry and a multi-vitamin everyday. We exercise and eat relatively healthy. People have stopped using the real science, and that's to allow our immune systems to do their jobs instead of artificially triggering a response with no idea how it will deal with any future infections, Covid or otherwise.
Wear a mask, sanitize and wash your hands, try to distance as much as you can and stay healthy. If you need to lose weight now is a perfect time to do it so your body can handle the infection as it comes. 90% of the deaths have been to people who are overweight and secondary conditions. We don't push health enough and really didn't care at all during cold (coronavirus) and flu season for the last 100 years.
No one knows yet how long those who have already had covid will be immune. Could be a month; months or a year or so or longer. Some or most of all of those who had caught early in the piece may well have no antibodies now.
I thought this was sad, children are now suffering or dying because of the choices their parents are making. Here is one story:
https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/texas-girl-4-dies-of-covid19-after-being-infected-by-antivaxxer-mum/news-story/5e496a216a98a04aa0452a8ae91582e6
I'm not a scientist but I'd almost be willing to bet that with this stuff so widespread that anyone who is venturing out in society has had it (with or without symptoms), which of course will help build immunity along with the vaccine and confirmed infections7 -
tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »No one knows yet how long those who have already had covid will be immune. Could be a month; months or a year or so or longer. Some or most of all of those who had caught early in the piece may well have no antibodies now.
Just FYI, there are a number of studies now being published from various countries (US, Thailand, Israel are among the ones I have read) that are showing "natural" immunity does have longer effects, and has T and B cell long term memory, making "natural" immunity far better than the vaccine(s) in future bouts and/or variants.
As another poster stated, yes, natural + vaccine has the strongest response of anyone, but the studies are finding that natural is slighty better than vaccine. The issue being, of course, if you somehow haven't had it yet, you cannot predict your body's response, and are rolling the dice on a bad outcome.
I am NOT anti-vaccine in any way - I encouraged my own mother to get it, however, it does not prevent one from catching or spreading covid as my friend who is currently quarantined at home with a not-nice bout of COVID can testify (she is fully vaccinated). Her case is FAR worse than mine was a few months ago (mine was so mild I thought it was just allergies as it was that time of year).
I've scheduled an antibody test for my own information - while not completely accurate, it can give one a good idea on their current ability to fight off this virus. So for those who've had covid or think they have, or it's been awhile since you got your vaccine, it may be a good option for your own peace of mind.
Regardless, be kind to your fellow humans, wear your mask where it's requested, distance where it is suggested, and don't make other people's lives more difficult or complicated than they already are.14 -
Just like every other thread I have seen, there is zero mention of those who have actually had Covid. They carry 27x the antibodies than those vaccinated. Why would someone need a vaccine if they have already had Covid? The chances of getting a breakthrough infection of Delta open that person up to yet another infection.
The vaccine does not keep you from getting it. It actually makes you a possible spreader, so why the push if people are showing signs of immunity naturally ? My husband and I both had very mild cases. We take D3, Zinc, Elderberry and a multi-vitamin everyday. We exercise and eat relatively healthy. People have stopped using the real science, and that's to allow our immune systems to do their jobs instead of artificially triggering a response with no idea how it will deal with any future infections, Covid or otherwise.
Wear a mask, sanitize and wash your hands, try to distance as much as you can and stay healthy. If you need to lose weight now is a perfect time to do it so your body can handle the infection as it comes. 90% of the deaths have been to people who are overweight and secondary conditions. We don't push health enough and really didn't care at all during cold (coronavirus) and flu season for the last 100 years.
Vaccinations just give your immune system a heads up so it can deal with being exposed to COVID-19 without your immune system going apeshit and killing you because of a response to a new pathogen. It's really about risk mitigation just like every other vaccine we have to take. The vaccine is allowing your immune system to do its job in a more robust way. It's lucky you and your husband had a mild case but most people I know who caught COVID-19 did not and wish they would have been vaccinated instead of the long term effects from the virus they have experienced.
That being said the vaccine isn't the end all be all in response to this virus and some of the other risk mitigation actions you mention I do agree with. This is a multifaceted problem that requires a multifaceted response and vaccines are just one facet. In my case I use everything at my disposal to reduce my risk for COVID-19 because my wife is high risk because of her kidney disease even though she is in great physical shape. You wouldn't know by looking at her that she is high risk.
We also need to take into account a huge chunk of people in the US have underlying conditions that can have serious outcomes if they are exposed. Vaccinations might be their only option at not ending up in the ER. Trying to get people healthy in this country has gone over like a lead balloon in the past and we are behind the curve at this point. The time to make those health initiatives was when the outbreak started and that was the most inept response from a world leader and his lackeys that I've ever seen.13 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to
Re: the black market - it would take a person who was competent in any editing program with access to a decent printer about an hour to make a fake card. In Tennessee they ran out of cards in the early stages so sent a pdf of the form to vax sites with instructions to print their own cards. Not sure how you would tell one printed by a random small county health department from one printed by a random antivaxxer.
I feel like this is all theater since Delta means that you are almost as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated one. There was a time when it could have made a difference but that time has passed.
True...but how many people are going to be willing to commit what would be a federal felony offense if caught. It's one thing to present one to some restaurant or entrance to a concert...it's entirely another thing to submit one to your employer as an official document.
You also aren't as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated person because vaccinated people are less likely to get it in the first place. If they have it, yes...they can shed the virus at the same rate...but you have much fewer vaccinated people getting it in the first place vs. unvaxed. You're misinterpreting the data and what the CDC has said.
It also appears unlikely that vaccinated shed virus at the same rate, and the shedding seems likely to be limited to vaxxed people with symptoms: https://www.nytimes.com/article/breakthrough-infections-covid-19-coronavirus.html
It's also not theater because if it convinces more people to be vaccinated, that makes a huge difference with the biggest issue now--the threat of hospitals being overwhelmed.
I was just going over the August Emergency Response Team report for our state judiciary (who I work for) yesterday with our executive team. August had 31 new positive cases judiciary wide with 3 in my district. A handful of them were found through our weekly testing policy for unvaxed and were asymptomatic. Most were identified after coming down with symptoms...several of them were in pretty bad shape and still not well, one of them is one of my staff who popped August 2 and he's just now kinda feeling about 90% normal. Two hospitalizations judiciary wide. All 31 were unvaxed.
Perhaps if we started charging the unvaxxed (or their estates after they die) for their COVID-related hospital care, it might motivate some people to smarten up. They seem to think they're making a personal choice that is no one else's business, but we ALL pay when they clog up the hospital infrastructure and drain healthcare resources with this nonsense. I'm tired of it. If these people really think COVID is no big deal, they shouldn't be bothered by the concept of making them pay for their care (since they clearly feel they won't need it anyway.) I'm not saying we force anyone to vax. Just make them pay for the consequences of their choices.
My insurance company sent out notices last month stating that COVID related expenses will no longer be 100% covered and will fall under the usual copays, deductibles, etc. moving forward. The letter also referenced the fact that multiple other insurers cut off the 100% coverage months ago.7 -
Interesting news this morning for my county (Contra Costa CA). Even though CA in general has a really good vaccine rate, and my city in particular is over 70%, the county has been seeing a pretty big surge and has issued a vaccine/negative test mandate for gyms, dance studios, restaurants, bars and any other establishment where people remove their facemasks indoors or breathe more heavily than usual. The mandate also requires employees in those areas to show proof of full vaccination or a weekly negative test as of Nov. 1. The purpose of the mandate is to slow roll the hospitalizations so that they don't get so overwhelmed that they have to turn people away for lack of beds or personnel.
I'm fully expecting to see a lot of venues close again if the mandate holds up, as everyone is understaffed already, and almost everyone in my small city who chooses to get vaccinated has already done so. So discouraging to see the big numbers again when for a few weeks it looked like we were turning the corner
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Just like every other thread I have seen, there is zero mention of those who have actually had Covid. They carry 27x the antibodies than those vaccinated. Why would someone need a vaccine if they have already had Covid? The chances of getting a breakthrough infection of Delta open that person up to yet another infection.
The vaccine does not keep you from getting it. It actually makes you a possible spreader, so why the push if people are showing signs of immunity naturally ? My husband and I both had very mild cases. We take D3, Zinc, Elderberry and a multi-vitamin everyday. We exercise and eat relatively healthy. People have stopped using the real science, and that's to allow our immune systems to do their jobs instead of artificially triggering a response with no idea how it will deal with any future infections, Covid or otherwise.
Wear a mask, sanitize and wash your hands, try to distance as much as you can and stay healthy. If you need to lose weight now is a perfect time to do it so your body can handle the infection as it comes. 90% of the deaths have been to people who are overweight and secondary conditions. We don't push health enough and really didn't care at all during cold (coronavirus) and flu season for the last 100 years.
Vaccinations just give your immune system a heads up so it can deal with being exposed to COVID-19 without your immune system going apeshit and killing you because of a response to a new pathogen. It's really about risk mitigation just like every other vaccine we have to take. The vaccine is allowing your immune system to do its job in a more robust way. It's lucky you and your husband had a mild case but most people I know who caught COVID-19 did not and wish they would have been vaccinated instead of the long term effects from the virus they have experienced.
That being said the vaccine isn't the end all be all in response to this virus and some of the other risk mitigation actions you mention I do agree with. This is a multifaceted problem that requires a multifaceted response and vaccines are just one facet. In my case I use everything at my disposal to reduce my risk for COVID-19 because my wife is high risk because of her kidney disease even though she is in great physical shape. You wouldn't know by looking at her that she is high risk.
We also need to take into account a huge chunk of people in the US have underlying conditions that can have serious outcomes if they are exposed. Vaccinations might be their only option at not ending up in the ER. Trying to get people healthy in this country has gone over like a lead balloon in the past and we are behind the curve at this point. The time to make those health initiatives was when the outbreak started and that was the most inept response from a world leader and his lackeys that I've ever seen.
Your experience is different than what is actually happening. Most people in the US who had Covid had relatively mild symptoms. NOTE: this is not saying people should not get the shot and follow CDC and local guidance to deal with Covid.
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tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »Just like every other thread I have seen, there is zero mention of those who have actually had Covid. They carry 27x the antibodies than those vaccinated. Why would someone need a vaccine if they have already had Covid? The chances of getting a breakthrough infection of Delta open that person up to yet another infection.
The vaccine does not keep you from getting it. It actually makes you a possible spreader, so why the push if people are showing signs of immunity naturally ? My husband and I both had very mild cases. We take D3, Zinc, Elderberry and a multi-vitamin everyday. We exercise and eat relatively healthy. People have stopped using the real science, and that's to allow our immune systems to do their jobs instead of artificially triggering a response with no idea how it will deal with any future infections, Covid or otherwise.
Wear a mask, sanitize and wash your hands, try to distance as much as you can and stay healthy. If you need to lose weight now is a perfect time to do it so your body can handle the infection as it comes. 90% of the deaths have been to people who are overweight and secondary conditions. We don't push health enough and really didn't care at all during cold (coronavirus) and flu season for the last 100 years.
No one knows yet how long those who have already had covid will be immune. Could be a month; months or a year or so or longer. Some or most of all of those who had caught early in the piece may well have no antibodies now.
I thought this was sad, children are now suffering or dying because of the choices their parents are making. Here is one story:
https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/texas-girl-4-dies-of-covid19-after-being-infected-by-antivaxxer-mum/news-story/5e496a216a98a04aa0452a8ae91582e6
The absence of antibodies can just mean that your body hasn't been exposed to the virus in a while. It doesn't necessarily mean that your immune system won't produce antibodies when exposed again.6 -
HoneyBadger302 wrote: »tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »No one knows yet how long those who have already had covid will be immune. Could be a month; months or a year or so or longer. Some or most of all of those who had caught early in the piece may well have no antibodies now.
Just FYI, there are a number of studies now being published from various countries (US, Thailand, Israel are among the ones I have read) that are showing "natural" immunity does have longer effects, and has T and B cell long term memory, making "natural" immunity far better than the vaccine(s) in future bouts and/or variants.
The first part of the sentence is true as far as it goes, but there are also studies showing T and B cell response from covid vaccines, so unless you have studies showing a direct comparison of T and B cell response in subjects with immunity from having the virus and in subjects with immunity from the vaccine, the bolded part of the sentence is an unwarranted assumption.
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I don't like the odds for achieving infection provoked antibodies for covid, as anyone who is unvaccinated is more likely to die in the process, self preservation tells me go for the vaccine.
There are parallel benefit for society as the potential pool for the creation of variants is reduced. The effect of covid vaccination is to promote the production of both B and T cells against covid. Nothing is perfect but as the vaccines available to us in the US, Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK and similarly placed countries are in the region of 70% effective and higher, are more effective than those for other vaccinable conditions which are substantially less effective, say flue, measles, tetanus and more. I rate the vaccine for covid highly. I have no knowledge of the efficacy of the Chinese or Russian produced vaccines. The probability is they are similarly constructed. Its best even when vaccinated not to consider yourself invincible.
Scientists took the knowledge of similarly constructed viruses and put effective vaccine together using all the cumulative knowledge to date.
I don't like the concept of covid having to become endemic but I fear for many reasons, we missed the boat on that one. The UK is coming more steps closer to it becoming endemic. The defining number for our covid climate was the number of persons dying from it. Anyone lost is a tragedy. Fortunately our numbers dying are fewer related to the number of cases but the numbers being hospitalised are high and rising, I believe this is the number we need to watch and react to. Each of us needs to do our bit to get the numbers back down.6 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »Just like every other thread I have seen, there is zero mention of those who have actually had Covid. They carry 27x the antibodies than those vaccinated. Why would someone need a vaccine if they have already had Covid? The chances of getting a breakthrough infection of Delta open that person up to yet another infection.
The vaccine does not keep you from getting it. It actually makes you a possible spreader, so why the push if people are showing signs of immunity naturally ? My husband and I both had very mild cases. We take D3, Zinc, Elderberry and a multi-vitamin everyday. We exercise and eat relatively healthy. People have stopped using the real science, and that's to allow our immune systems to do their jobs instead of artificially triggering a response with no idea how it will deal with any future infections, Covid or otherwise.
Wear a mask, sanitize and wash your hands, try to distance as much as you can and stay healthy. If you need to lose weight now is a perfect time to do it so your body can handle the infection as it comes. 90% of the deaths have been to people who are overweight and secondary conditions. We don't push health enough and really didn't care at all during cold (coronavirus) and flu season for the last 100 years.
No one knows yet how long those who have already had covid will be immune. Could be a month; months or a year or so or longer. Some or most of all of those who had caught early in the piece may well have no antibodies now.
I thought this was sad, children are now suffering or dying because of the choices their parents are making. Here is one story:
https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/texas-girl-4-dies-of-covid19-after-being-infected-by-antivaxxer-mum/news-story/5e496a216a98a04aa0452a8ae91582e6
The absence of antibodies can just mean that your body hasn't been exposed to the virus in a while. It doesn't necessarily mean that your immune system won't produce antibodies when exposed again.
This is one of the major points media reports of studies and papers are missing. No one is running around with antibodies to all the vaccines and viruses they've ever been exposed to. It is perfectly normal for antibody presence to wain.the key is that your body now knows how to quickly produce more the next time the virus is detected.
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It's also really important to remember that pretty much every paper and published study out there about covid-19 is either a pre-print or not peer reviewed, it simply hasn't been long enough yet. As we've seen in diet and exercise research, peer review can call into question the conclusions of a published paper that sounded really convincing at first blush. The kind of extensive and thoroughly vetted data required takes time to compile, publish, and review, and it hasn't even been two years yet. What gives you "better" immunity, which vaccine is the most effective, how contagious a person is, all of these are still open to some interpretation, even among virologists.8 -
I don't like the odds for achieving infection provoked antibodies for covid, as anyone who is unvaccinated is more likely to die in the process, self preservation tells me go for the vaccine.
There are parallel benefit for society as the potential pool for the creation of variants is reduced. The effect of covid vaccination is to promote the production of both B and T cells against covid. Nothing is perfect but as the vaccines available to us in the US, Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK and similarly placed countries are in the region of 70% effective and higher, are more effective than those for other vaccinable conditions which are substantially less effective, say flue, measles, tetanus and more. I rate the vaccine for covid highly. I have no knowledge of the efficacy of the Chinese or Russian produced vaccines. The probability is they are similarly constructed. Its best even when vaccinated not to consider yourself invincible.
Scientists took the knowledge of similarly constructed viruses and put effective vaccine together using all the cumulative knowledge to date.
I don't like the concept of covid having to become endemic but I fear for many reasons, we missed the boat on that one. The UK is coming more steps closer to it becoming endemic. The defining number for our covid climate was the number of persons dying from it. Anyone lost is a tragedy. Fortunately our numbers dying are fewer related to the number of cases but the numbers being hospitalised are high and rising, I believe this is the number we need to watch and react to. Each of us needs to do our bit to get the numbers back down.
The TWIV folks said on a recent episode that they do believe at some point everyone will have gotten covid, and just like with the flu, an unfortunate number of high risk people will die from it every year.
The key is to get a much larger percentage of the population vaxxed, so that even the people spreading it will be shedding less and weaker viral particles. And give the medical community more time to develop standard protocols and care to further reduce the fatalities of bad cases. They may also be able to improve the vaccines as well.
The hospitalisation numbers are scary. I wish people would be more careful. We are going to burn out the doctors, nurses, and respiratory pros who are caring for covid cases.7 -
Good Morning All,
Please be respectful of the fact that many people have lost loved ones and had their lives greatly changed by coronavirus. In your responses please be thoughful and respectful, there is alot of valuable, well thought out discussion going on here so this is not the appropriate platform for "one liner", dismissive comments. They will be treated at TROLLING.
I apologize if you have personally be affected by coronavirus, but if you are having an emotional response to the discussion being had here it is a good sign that you may need to step away from this thread for awhile.
Thanks for your cooperation,
4legs
MFP volunteer moderator21 -
I personally know no one in my life who has died from covid.
I have personal connections to two people who died from the covid vaccine.
Please be respectful of this when pushing the vaccine or denigrating those who choose not to take it.11 -
Nicki Minaj swollen testicles claim 'wasted' Trinidad health officials' time
Officials in Trinidad "wasted so much time" trying to confirm Nicki Minaj's comments about Covid jab side effects, according to a government minister.
The rapper tweeted disinformation about side effects of the coronavirus vaccine - saying that when a friend of her cousin had the jab, his testicles swelled up and he became impotent.
She claimed it happened in Trinidad.
Health minister Terrence Deyalsingh said officials "take all claims seriously".
"As we stand now, there is absolutely no reported side effect or adverse event of testicular swelling in Trinidad... and none that we know of anywhere in the world," he said in a press conference on Wednesday.
...Sajid Javid, the UK health secretary, was asked to comment on Nicki Minaj and the swollen testicles as well.
"When it comes to something as lifesaving as vaccines - in this country there are 112,000 fewer deaths we estimate because of our vaccine programme - they should be really careful about what they say and not spread untruths," he told BBC Breakfast.
Speaking to Sky News, he said: "People that are in the public eye whether they are a celebrity or a politician or whoever they are should be very careful with their language and certainly shouldn't be spreading untruths."9 -
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kshama2001 wrote: »Nicki Minaj swollen testicles claim 'wasted' Trinidad health officials' time
Officials in Trinidad "wasted so much time" trying to confirm Nicki Minaj's comments about Covid jab side effects, according to a government minister.
The rapper tweeted disinformation about side effects of the coronavirus vaccine - saying that when a friend of her cousin had the jab, his testicles swelled up and he became impotent.
She claimed it happened in Trinidad.
Health minister Terrence Deyalsingh said officials "take all claims seriously".
"As we stand now, there is absolutely no reported side effect or adverse event of testicular swelling in Trinidad... and none that we know of anywhere in the world," he said in a press conference on Wednesday.
...Sajid Javid, the UK health secretary, was asked to comment on Nicki Minaj and the swollen testicles as well.
"When it comes to something as lifesaving as vaccines - in this country there are 112,000 fewer deaths we estimate because of our vaccine programme - they should be really careful about what they say and not spread untruths," he told BBC Breakfast.
Speaking to Sky News, he said: "People that are in the public eye whether they are a celebrity or a politician or whoever they are should be very careful with their language and certainly shouldn't be spreading untruths."
The real problem is people actually seem to give a flying *kitten* what she says.18 -
ExistingFish wrote: »I personally know no one in my life who has died from covid.
I have personal connections to two people who died from the covid vaccine.
Please be respectful of this when pushing the vaccine or denigrating those who choose not to take it.
The thing is, I don’t believe you, because so few people around the world have died following the vaccine that for a single person to know two of them is astronomically unlikely.22 -
So over 50% of the country is fully vaccinated yet we have many more cases now that we did this time last year when 0% were vaccinated and we are told we must get more vaccinated now????? And somehow you are branded a nut if you even ask the question “how can this be???” And please do not try to give me the answer to this question because I assure you no one on this site knows that answer. Nor do I think the Great Dr Fauci himself knows that answer. But yet we can’t ask it. Mind you I am fully vaccinated.11
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Also please explain Explain Israel. They are now on 4th round of vaccine shots in less than a year in a country with well over 90% fully vaccinated. The vaccinated are getting sick. Something is wrong with that picture. Again not allowed to bring that up in main stream media or else you are anti-fill in the blank.13
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JoPat I fear many people are not being as careful now as they were a year ago.
Then there was a significant amount of inconsistency in the way our "betters" convey and conveyed our "best options for avoiding covid", some even likened it to flu! Then there was the way for several weeks before March 2020, we were told there was no point in waring masks because covid was not air-born! Surprise, surprise it was and is. Masks are the first thing Asian populations reach for after their experiences in the early 2000's.
Then we have the supposed "relief" vaccinated person are supposed to feel once they are two weeks out from the second vaccination. I did not feel that elation, I thought, I hope I have done enough to protect those around me. If I go to the shops I wear masks, many don't. I'm careful what I touch, stair rails for example, I cross my fingers and make sure my foot is well on the step, I'm in my 70's after all! Similar goes for escalators. I also only pick up the item I am interested in. I'm not sure others are that careful. I also carry a sanitiser because hand washing is not always convenient. We had a day out in the week near the sea, we kept our distance from others even in the open air, others did not! If walking on a narrow path, I turn my head away from an approaching person having acknowledged them.
I have to accept our individual options are limited to keep ourselves covid free. Even vaccinated, being in proximity to someone with covid could cause transmission if that person is not as honourable as I would hope to be and stay at home and isolate. If I'm out of sorts for any reason, I'll keep myself to myself. Others don't.
The reason I did not feel the elation at being vaccinated is because, no vaccine is 100% effective. As I've said earlier the ones we in the UK, Europe, the US, Canada, Australia and NZ are much better than the ones for illnesses children are regularly vaccinated for but their is still the window of opportunity for us to still catch covid if we do not take care of ourselves and others.
I've not heard anything about the Israelis covid issues. I know it all seemed good their population was vaccinated sooner and to a higher level than many.12 -
So over 50% of the country is fully vaccinated yet we have many more cases now that we did this time last year when 0% were vaccinated and we are told we must get more vaccinated now????? And somehow you are branded a nut if you even ask the question “how can this be???” And please do not try to give me the answer to this question because I assure you no one on this site knows that answer. Nor do I think the Great Dr Fauci himself knows that answer. But yet we can’t ask it. Mind you I am fully vaccinated.
I guess the question is what severity are most of the cases - because I can easily understand how opening up, stopping lockdowns etc means more cases - but if people are vaccinated and many more of the cases are mild then obviously that is still a big improvement.
The other thing, of course, is the emergence of variants like Delta.
10 -
So over 50% of the country is fully vaccinated yet we have many more cases now that we did this time last year when 0% were vaccinated and we are told we must get more vaccinated now????? And somehow you are branded a nut if you even ask the question “how can this be???” And please do not try to give me the answer to this question because I assure you no one on this site knows that answer. Nor do I think the Great Dr Fauci himself knows that answer. But yet we can’t ask it. Mind you I am fully vaccinated.
It's actually quite simple to explain. Both experts and anyone who thinks about it for one minute can understand. Two main factors....
One is the easing of restrictions. People have returned to their normal lives. No capacity limits, no limits on gatherings, schools are fully open, restaurants, concerts and sporting events are packed, and very little mask usage anywhere. Compared to this time last year, when we were in almost total lockdown, it's night and day.
Two is the rise of variants such as Delta. This particular variant is found to be much more transmissible than the original strain.
As far as the vaccine...no, it's not 100 percent effective, everyone knew that going in. But, it has mostly prevented the vaccinated from serious illness. The overwhelming majority of hospitalisations and deaths are among the unvaccinated.
You mention the 50% vaccinated figure. The problem is that it is not 50% spread evenly across the population. Some areas have better than 70%, and guess what? They have ICU beds available and low death rates.
Some regions are below 30% vaccinated, and guess what? Their hospitals are out of ICU beds and are rationing care, causing harm to people who need medical treatment for injuries/illnesses unrelated to COVID.29 -
Completely agree @SuzySunshine99. The infection rate is much higher in regions where the vaccination rate is lower. The more virus load present, the more likely the vaccinated will get sick, though in a smaller percentage than the unvaccinated. The big difference is in the severe illness and death rate. Considerably over 90% of hospitalizations and deaths are among the unvaccinated.11
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So over 50% of the country is fully vaccinated yet we have many more cases now that we did this time last year when 0% were vaccinated and we are told we must get more vaccinated now????? And somehow you are branded a nut if you even ask the question “how can this be???” And please do not try to give me the answer to this question because I assure you no one on this site knows that answer. Nor do I think the Great Dr Fauci himself knows that answer. But yet we can’t ask it. Mind you I am fully vaccinated.
At this time last year, my state and many others were pretty much locked down. At this time last year, I could go to the grocery store and that's pretty much it, and even that was restricted to capacity. My state and most are completely open now going anywhere and everywhere you could go pre-covid. Also, 50% is not across the board...there are states with very high vaccination rates and states with very low vaccination rates.
My state is nowhere near the peak we saw in Nov/Dec/Jan of last year...not even close. We have a very high vaccination rate and around 93% of our COVID hospitalizations are unvaxed.13 -
My current state of MA is also doing much better than our Dec/Jan peak cases.
My former state of FL is not.
9 -
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