Coronavirus prep
Replies
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AZ and J&J are both phased out in Italy. Boosters are starting to happen and will be ramped up by Dec. They expect 90% of the population to be vaccinated. I mentioned that our coordinator is a General. He's organized this thing like clockwork--gotta love the guy. organizing the Italians is not easy. Our numbers are way down, but we all need a Green Pass (proof of vaccination) to enter any enclosed space and that includes work. Masks are also still being worn, especially in stores and supermarkets or any closed space until seated. People are being really good about it all and tourism is booming again. We do have a militant No-Vax group that keep demonstrating and refuse to vaccinate. They must do a COVID test twice a week to go to work and pay around 15$ each time.
These people are very angry and I am sorry for them. One of my son's got J&J and is very against vaccinating. He needed a Green Pass so, he bit the bullet, so to speak. However, so far, Italy is doing very well. With the new variants we'll see if it's all enough. Yesterday there were 30 COVID deaths total, and intensive care numbers are declining. These numbers are 90% people who have not been vaccinated.14 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
https://youtu.be/yPvUb9jo-Pw
This news out of Europe is stressful. I expect there may be a new variant. China Covid-19 news is also stressful. Thankfully USA numbers are looking better but we are about to head into winter.
I'm afraid it's coming your way too. Winter and next wave approaching.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://youtu.be/yPvUb9jo-Pw
This news out of Europe is stressful. I expect there may be a new variant. China Covid-19 news is also stressful. Thankfully USA numbers are looking better but we are about to head into winter.
No use stressing, it won't help. Do what you feel you need to do to protect you and your loved ones.6 -
I just got my Pfizer booster shot yesterday and I did pretty good. My arm is just a little sore(like a three out of ten) in pain-- but nothing I can not easily deal with. I had more of a reaction with my second Pfizer because I did have to lay down that night nd felt a little sick-- but this time(third- booster) went well-- Just wanted to let others know11
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Going to try and get a booster in November. Have to finish out my 6 months from shot 2. Biggest hurdle will be planning it between holidays and with the sick/personal time I have left (don't want to be without some backup time). Right now I am thinking about getting it on a Thursday and then taking the Friday off. But I don't get my next batch of PTO until the 20th and that following Thursday is Thanksgiving. I could use the personal day I have been trying to hold on to and get it before then but... I don't know.6
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I just got my Pfizer booster shot yesterday and I did pretty good. My arm is just a little sore(like a three out of ten) in pain-- but nothing I can not easily deal with. I had more of a reaction with my second Pfizer because I did have to lay down that night nd felt a little sick-- but this time(third- booster) went well-- Just wanted to let others know
Yeah, I got a booster (Moderna) plus flu together this past Saturday, and had no side effects beyond a similarly sore arm and feeling a little tired the next day. It was less than with the second shot for me too (and even that was pretty mild--felt a little headachy the next day).3 -
I got my Pfizer booster and flu shot on Oct 15th. When they were giving me the shots I didn't even feel the booster (left arm) at all but I was aware of the flu shot (right arm) going in and it ached for about 4 hours. Later that evening the booster arm really started to ache and I just felt off as the flu shot side tapered off. The next day didn't feel great but not as bad as my second dose of Pfizer which lingered for a few days. I had a very mild fever for a few hours and wouldn't have even noticed it had I not been checking my temperature from time to time. Within 24 hours I felt pretty good aside from my arm hurting but that tapered off on both sides by Monday. The arm pain wasn't bad and didn't affect my sleep throughout the weekend. In comparison my last tetanus/diphtheria/pertussis vaccine made me feel like I had the flu for about a week where as flu shots and these COVID-19 vaccines weren't bad at all even that second Pfizer dose which had the most side effects.
My only weird side effect to the COVID-19 vaccine was my inner ears spasming for about two weeks after the second dose but that could have been more to do with fluid in my ears from allergies so its hard to say if it was the vaccine or something else or both. As of today I feel great and no inner ear spasms.6 -
Over here we are told that excluding especially vulnerable individuals everyone who has had two will get recalled for a third one at the six month post second shot mark.
They're hoping everyone will be at three shots within a six to eight months timeframe post spot number two.
Appointments are via SMS and should come automatically assuming things work as expected.
(Over here = BC; my listed MFP location is within 2000km of my actual one)6 -
I heard on the news that they may recommend a 4th shot post 6 months the 3rd shot, for immunocompromised people (my husband is in this category). We are a little over post 6 months our 2nd, and have not had our 3rd. Both over 65, and husband has health issues. My husband has an appointment with his primary 11/8. We were going to wait until then, to find out which shot his doctor recommends, for our 3rd. We had Moderna, but maybe we should just get it done, but which one? We had our flu shots in mid September. Any opinions/suggestions?4
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missysippy930 wrote: »I heard on the news that they may recommend a 4th shot post 6 months the 3rd shot, for immunocompromised people (my husband is in this category). We are a little over post 6 months our 2nd, and have not had our 3rd. Both over 65, and husband has health issues. My husband has an appointment with his primary 11/8. We were going to wait until then, to find out which shot his doctor recommends, for our 3rd. We had Moderna, but maybe we should just get it done, but which one? We had our flu shots in mid September. Any opinions/suggestions?
The article or post I read about it said the 4th was only for extremely compromised individuals, like organ transplant recipients. A very small subset of immunocompromised people.
If you're concerned about waiting, can you call his primary and see if they think it's better to get the booster asap? I think that would be really specific to your husband's condition, lifestyle, and current health.
As far as which, last discussion I listened to on TWIV said the difference in "effectiveness" from mixing mRNA shots or staying consistent seems pretty minor as of now and probably doesn't matter.5 -
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
Scientific reports like this is not helping convince those in opposition to the vaccine for one reason or another.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
Scientific reports like this is not helping convince those in opposition to the vaccine for one reason or another.
It's not marketing, let alone propaganda. It's just scientific fact.
One might think that vaccine opponents would take note of the fact that vaccine promoters honestly acknowledge and report facts that don't help make their case among disbelievers. It's a sign of fact-based orientation, as opposed to sleazy manipulation.19 -
It's fascinating to me how the myth that a vaccine that doesn't stop infection isn't worth taking has come about. Almost none of the childhood vaccines we get prevent infection; they prevent illness.
As Anne notes, studies by good actors aren't released to sway public opinion - they are released to add to the available data and hopefully move us closer to the actual truth.
Also, one study isn't the be all and end all, especially before peer review. There were only 621 participants, all in the UK, for whatever that's worth.9 -
It's fascinating to me how the myth that a vaccine that doesn't stop infection isn't worth taking has come about. Almost none of the childhood vaccines we get prevent infection; they prevent illness.
As Anne notes, studies by good actors aren't released to sway public opinion - they are released to add to the available data and hopefully move us closer to the actual truth.
Also, one study isn't the be all and end all, especially before peer review.
Ditto to the idea that vaccinated people can still spread the virus . . . not all vaccines are disinfecting, and we know this virus can be asymptomatic, so why wouldn't vaccinated people be able to spread it? That they can is part of the reasoning behind continued masking and other precautions.
One of my vaccine skeptic friends** asserted in conversation that vaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus than unvaccinated people are . . . I haven't seen any evidence that that's true, but I've seen the claim more than once from the anti-vaccine side of the argument. I'd say - and did during the conversation - that IMU the vaccinated may be more likely to be asymptomatic, may have a similar viral load, but I believe maintain the viral load for a shorter time period, so would be overall somewhat less likely to spread the virus, but I'm no expert.
(** Yeah, we're still friends. She 'does her own research'.)8 -
missysippy930 wrote: »I heard on the news that they may recommend a 4th shot post 6 months the 3rd shot, for immunocompromised people (my husband is in this category). We are a little over post 6 months our 2nd, and have not had our 3rd. Both over 65, and husband has health issues. My husband has an appointment with his primary 11/8. We were going to wait until then, to find out which shot his doctor recommends, for our 3rd. We had Moderna, but maybe we should just get it done, but which one? We had our flu shots in mid September. Any opinions/suggestions?
The article or post I read about it said the 4th was only for extremely compromised individuals, like organ transplant recipients. A very small subset of immunocompromised people.
If you're concerned about waiting, can you call his primary and see if they think it's better to get the booster asap? I think that would be really specific to your husband's condition, lifestyle, and current health.
As far as which, last discussion I listened to on TWIV said the difference in "effectiveness" from mixing mRNA shots or staying consistent seems pretty minor as of now and probably doesn't matter.
Thanks! I appreciate your commments❤️
My husband has cancer. He also had blood clots in his knee area and was in intensive care for 5 days at the end of May. He had none of the risks for blood clots and no family history. At the time, the hematologist asked him if he had gotten the covid vaccine, but it was never determined, that, that, may have been the cause of the blood clots. At least we were never told that it was. This check up coming up, will be the first time he’s seen his doctor for this since it happened. Six month check up.
Because the 3rd shot was only recently approved, we haven’t gotten ours yet, even though we are eligible for it. He wanted to talk to his doctor about it first. My husband says even with the risk, he’ll take the 3rd shot. Getting COVID-19 may be worse than any potential risk from the covid vaccine, because his cancer. The question is, is there any increased risk for him getting more blood clots. Does any doctor really know the answer to this or which vaccine in his case would be best. Hopefully his doctor will be able to answer his questions on 11/8. We’ll have to wait and see. It’s only a little over a week.14 -
It's fascinating to me how the myth that a vaccine that doesn't stop infection isn't worth taking has come about. Almost none of the childhood vaccines we get prevent infection; they prevent illness.
As Anne notes, studies by good actors aren't released to sway public opinion - they are released to add to the available data and hopefully move us closer to the actual truth.
Also, one study isn't the be all and end all, especially before peer review.
Ditto to the idea that vaccinated people can still spread the virus . . . not all vaccines are disinfecting, and we know this virus can be asymptomatic, so why wouldn't vaccinated people be able to spread it? That they can is part of the reasoning behind continued masking and other precautions.
One of my vaccine skeptic friends** asserted in conversation that vaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus than unvaccinated people are . . . I haven't seen any evidence that that's true, but I've seen the claim more than once from the anti-vaccine side of the argument. I'd say - and did during the conversation - that IMU the vaccinated may be more likely to be asymptomatic, may have a similar viral load, but I believe maintain the viral load for a shorter time period, so would be overall somewhat less likely to spread the virus, but I'm no expert.
(** Yeah, we're still friends. She 'does her own research'.)
I think that is related to the initial article about that bear week over the summer where they said everyone was vaccinated and there was a lot of spread, which played fast and loose with the numbers and the variables. No reports since then have suggested any such thing. I tend to agree with your idea, I've heard from multiple places that the viral load drops much quicker in vaxxed people.
Considering it still isn't clear how to test for immunity level, I'd guess the experts are still not sure what that viral load really signifies. I wonder if the viral particles are weaker in an immune person who gets infected, if that's a thing?3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
Scientific reports like this is not helping convince those in opposition to the vaccine for one reason or another.
Our leaders have consistently messed up with their COVID messaging.
The Vaxx reduces your risk of hospitalization and death, which also frees up our ICU capacity.
This is a powerful enough message by itself, without the prior pretending it makes you immune/bulletproof.6 -
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GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
Scientific reports like this is not helping convince those in opposition to the vaccine for one reason or another.
Our leaders have consistently messed up with their COVID messaging.
The Vaxx reduces your risk of hospitalization and death, which also frees up our ICU capacity.
This is a powerful enough message by itself, without the prior pretending it makes you immune/bulletproof.
I think the problem that a lot of people have now is more with the vaccine passport than the vaccine itself.
Here in Ontario you can not dine indoors, watch your kid play hockey, go to a wedding, funeral or go to the gym, etc. without showing your papers. Since the vaccine is not stopping transmission (but certainly helping reduce the chance of hospitalization and death), this does not make sense to a lot of people. Even more so that people have offered to show a negative covid test to do the above - but that is not accepted - papers only.
(I'm double vaccinated by the way - but do have questions about the logic of this system).5 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
Scientific reports like this is not helping convince those in opposition to the vaccine for one reason or another.
Our leaders have consistently messed up with their COVID messaging.
The Vaxx reduces your risk of hospitalization and death, which also frees up our ICU capacity.
This is a powerful enough message by itself, without the prior pretending it makes you immune/bulletproof.
I think the problem that a lot of people have now is more with the vaccine passport than the vaccine itself.
Here in Ontario you can not dine indoors, watch your kid play hockey, go to a wedding, funeral or go to the gym, etc. without showing your papers. Since the vaccine is not stopping transmission (but certainly helping reduce the chance of hospitalization and death), this does not make sense to a lot of people. Even more so that people have offered to show a negative covid test to do the above - but that is not accepted - papers only.
(I'm double vaccinated by the way - but do have questions about the logic of this system).
Because the other thing the vaccine dies is greatly reduce the chance of transmission. We want this thing to end, don’t we? We need to get everyone vacc’d, and if that means heavy pressure, so be it.
I read a case of a woman who refused to get vacc’d, was loudly against it, til she got the chance to go to a Justin Bieber concert. (Vacc only) She got vacc’d8 -
HawkingRadiation wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
Scientific reports like this is not helping convince those in opposition to the vaccine for one reason or another.
Our leaders have consistently messed up with their COVID messaging.
The Vaxx reduces your risk of hospitalization and death, which also frees up our ICU capacity.
This is a powerful enough message by itself, without the prior pretending it makes you immune/bulletproof.
I think the problem that a lot of people have now is more with the vaccine passport than the vaccine itself.
Here in Ontario you can not dine indoors, watch your kid play hockey, go to a wedding, funeral or go to the gym, etc. without showing your papers. Since the vaccine is not stopping transmission (but certainly helping reduce the chance of hospitalization and death), this does not make sense to a lot of people. Even more so that people have offered to show a negative covid test to do the above - but that is not accepted - papers only.
(I'm double vaccinated by the way - but do have questions about the logic of this system).
Because the other thing the vaccine dies is greatly reduce the chance of transmission. We want this thing to end, don’t we? We need to get everyone vacc’d, and if that means heavy pressure, so be it.
I read a case of a woman who refused to get vacc’d, was loudly against it, til she got the chance to go to a Justin Bieber concert. (Vacc only) She got vacc’d
right - but if someone is willing to show a negative test that shows that they do not have covid as of that time - should that not be as good (if not better?) than someone who is vaccinated, but could be carrying the virus?5 -
No, because we want this to end. And a neg test means that they didn’t have it a few days ago.
Get vacc’d or stay home15 -
HawkingRadiation wrote: »No, because we want this to end. And a neg test means that they didn’t have it a few days ago.
Get vacc’d or stay home
Carrots and sticks.
The carrot of not getting seriously ill or killing my mother worked for me. Others clearly need the stick of losing their job or losing out on in person social events.14 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
Scientific reports like this is not helping convince those in opposition to the vaccine for one reason or another.
Our leaders have consistently messed up with their COVID messaging.
The Vaxx reduces your risk of hospitalization and death, which also frees up our ICU capacity.
This is a powerful enough message by itself, without the prior pretending it makes you immune/bulletproof.
I think the problem that a lot of people have now is more with the vaccine passport than the vaccine itself.
Here in Ontario you can not dine indoors, watch your kid play hockey, go to a wedding, funeral or go to the gym, etc. without showing your papers. Since the vaccine is not stopping transmission (but certainly helping reduce the chance of hospitalization and death), this does not make sense to a lot of people. Even more so that people have offered to show a negative covid test to do the above - but that is not accepted - papers only.
(I'm double vaccinated by the way - but do have questions about the logic of this system).
Because the other thing the vaccine dies is greatly reduce the chance of transmission. We want this thing to end, don’t we? We need to get everyone vacc’d, and if that means heavy pressure, so be it.
I read a case of a woman who refused to get vacc’d, was loudly against it, til she got the chance to go to a Justin Bieber concert. (Vacc only) She got vacc’d
right - but if someone is willing to show a negative test that shows that they do not have covid as of that time - should that not be as good (if not better?) than someone who is vaccinated, but could be carrying the virus?
Public policy ought to have a foundation of science.
But public policy is sometimes trying to do things pure science wouldn't try to do, like influence people's behavior.
I don't like to see public servants (including politicians) misrepresent scientific facts. But I do think there are times that public policy can have aims that pure science can't really reach.
Is this one of those times? That's a good debate.
P.S. Yes, scientific findings do influence some people's behavior, of course. But that's not their purpose or central aim. Sometimes the findings are just not what anyone might prefer them to be, but they're still the facts. I'm also aware that science is carried out by humans, which means it isn't always completely pure.3 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
Scientific reports like this is not helping convince those in opposition to the vaccine for one reason or another.
Our leaders have consistently messed up with their COVID messaging.
The Vaxx reduces your risk of hospitalization and death, which also frees up our ICU capacity.
This is a powerful enough message by itself, without the prior pretending it makes you immune/bulletproof.
I think the problem that a lot of people have now is more with the vaccine passport than the vaccine itself.
Here in Ontario you can not dine indoors, watch your kid play hockey, go to a wedding, funeral or go to the gym, etc. without showing your papers. Since the vaccine is not stopping transmission (but certainly helping reduce the chance of hospitalization and death), this does not make sense to a lot of people. Even more so that people have offered to show a negative covid test to do the above - but that is not accepted - papers only.
(I'm double vaccinated by the way - but do have questions about the logic of this system).
Because the other thing the vaccine dies is greatly reduce the chance of transmission. We want this thing to end, don’t we? We need to get everyone vacc’d, and if that means heavy pressure, so be it.
I read a case of a woman who refused to get vacc’d, was loudly against it, til she got the chance to go to a Justin Bieber concert. (Vacc only) She got vacc’d
right - but if someone is willing to show a negative test that shows that they do not have covid as of that time - should that not be as good (if not better?) than someone who is vaccinated, but could be carrying the virus?
A test only shows you didn't have the virus when you took it. So, if they want to test, strictly isolate for three or so days, then take another test just before doing whatever they want to do, I would accept that. And pay for the test themselves, because after society has paid for vaccines for all the willing, it shouldn't have to pay for innumerable repeat tests for the unwilling.
Those willing to be vaccinated and wear masks are just as sick of the pandemic and measures to fight it as the unwilling (probably more sick, since they've actually altered their lives, whereas the unwilling pretty much haven't).
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I would like to see hospitals that are near capacity limit care to only vaccinated patients. It's unfair to the heart attack patient a few hours later who can't get a bed because they took an unvaxxed Covid patient.13
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Muscleflex79 wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
Scientific reports like this is not helping convince those in opposition to the vaccine for one reason or another.
Our leaders have consistently messed up with their COVID messaging.
The Vaxx reduces your risk of hospitalization and death, which also frees up our ICU capacity.
This is a powerful enough message by itself, without the prior pretending it makes you immune/bulletproof.
I think the problem that a lot of people have now is more with the vaccine passport than the vaccine itself.
Here in Ontario you can not dine indoors, watch your kid play hockey, go to a wedding, funeral or go to the gym, etc. without showing your papers. Since the vaccine is not stopping transmission (but certainly helping reduce the chance of hospitalization and death), this does not make sense to a lot of people. Even more so that people have offered to show a negative covid test to do the above - but that is not accepted - papers only.
(I'm double vaccinated by the way - but do have questions about the logic of this system).
Because the other thing the vaccine dies is greatly reduce the chance of transmission. We want this thing to end, don’t we? We need to get everyone vacc’d, and if that means heavy pressure, so be it.
I read a case of a woman who refused to get vacc’d, was loudly against it, til she got the chance to go to a Justin Bieber concert. (Vacc only) She got vacc’d
right - but if someone is willing to show a negative test that shows that they do not have covid as of that time - should that not be as good (if not better?) than someone who is vaccinated, but could be carrying the virus?
I wish to point out that the Veterans Administration in the US is insisting on COVID tests 3 days before any dental work for fully vaccinated patients
So even the vaccinated people still need to be tested. And still need to isolate, wear masks, etc.7 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I would like to see hospitals that are near capacity limit care to only vaccinated patients. It's unfair to the heart attack patient a few hours later who can't get a bed because they took an unvaxxed Covid patient.
With the stipulation that this means the voluntarily unvaxxed and not those with medical exemption, I agree. You've been informed of the advantages of vaccination and if you've chosen not to get vaccinated, there are potential negative consequences for that decision.
Although my perspective may be a bit skewed by the fact that I've needed emergency surgery once already this year and have ongoing health concerns, so the thought of possibly being unable to access urgent medical care because of other people's poor decision-making is alarming.
22 -
I have thyroid surgery scheduled in January, and had to have a COVID test set up for four days beforehand. There's no telling if I'll get to make my surgery date or not. I hope I do. I'd gotten to where I didn't drink with my meals, and now I have to, and take smaller bites, too, because of the lump impinging on my esophagus. I'm trying really hard to be optimistic and know that it will all be okay, but. BUT.
I have a breast reduction consultation scheduled in January too. Hopefully that won't be rescheduled again. (And anyone who thinks that's a minor problem has never dealt with it.)24 -
HawkingRadiation wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
Scientific reports like this is not helping convince those in opposition to the vaccine for one reason or another.
Our leaders have consistently messed up with their COVID messaging.
The Vaxx reduces your risk of hospitalization and death, which also frees up our ICU capacity.
This is a powerful enough message by itself, without the prior pretending it makes you immune/bulletproof.
I think the problem that a lot of people have now is more with the vaccine passport than the vaccine itself.
Here in Ontario you can not dine indoors, watch your kid play hockey, go to a wedding, funeral or go to the gym, etc. without showing your papers. Since the vaccine is not stopping transmission (but certainly helping reduce the chance of hospitalization and death), this does not make sense to a lot of people. Even more so that people have offered to show a negative covid test to do the above - but that is not accepted - papers only.
(I'm double vaccinated by the way - but do have questions about the logic of this system).
Because the other thing the vaccine dies is greatly reduce the chance of transmission. We want this thing to end, don’t we? We need to get everyone vacc’d, and if that means heavy pressure, so be it.
I read a case of a woman who refused to get vacc’d, was loudly against it, til she got the chance to go to a Justin Bieber concert. (Vacc only) She got vacc’d
I don't think that's correct, if it was we wouldn't have seen the spike in recent months with the majority of citizens already vaccinated. The numbers are higher than before the vaccine was available and my state was leading on getting vaxxed (WA).
I'm fine with some pressure on people getting vaxxed, but we had that covered with employment mandates and school mandates. Treating the unvaxxed like they have leprosy is dishonest, and it misleads the vaxxed on their risks.
Anecdotally, I watch a reddit sub on covidpos, so many stories of vaxxed getting it from other vaxxed people.
Full disclosure, I need to schedule my booster since they offered it to me. I'm very pro vaxx.7
https://youtu.be/1Hfq9gBkwBE
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