Coronavirus prep

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  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,840 Member
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    I went for a walk, including past my church (which is open for private prayer during specific hours, but not at the particular time I went by) and through part of my local shopping district (lots of little local shops). I kind of just wanted to see if the shops had any signs about whether they'd be open once the "stay at home" order goes into effect or anything about delivery.

    My local grocery (meat market) is going to be open with limits on how many can come in and is asking that non-elderly/vulnerable don't come during the first two hours of each day. The pet food store is doing curbside pickup (although this is a walking district more than a driving one). Some stores had already shut down.

    Neighborhood sidewalks were largely empty, although some people were out walking dogs or just walking. I passed a few buses that had just a tiny number of people in them. A few people were out running and a couple of people were biking, and I saw a father outside playing with his small child.

    I was out driving today partially just to get out of the house, but also to find the location of the blood drive I'm going to next week (yay! I found one that was making whole blood donation appointments!) and to drop off a few nonperishables at a food bank in the same vicinity, and I saw a bus with the electronic sign on the front displaying "BUS FULL / WAIT FOR NEXT BUS." By normal standards, it was practically empty, but I guess the driver didn't think anymore people could get on and maintain six feet of separation.

    The Memphis Area Transit Authority released new guidelines for buses today based on the mayor’s orders. I don’t remember the exact details but it was limited capacity with space between people enforced by police tape inside the bus.
  • DecadeDuchess
    DecadeDuchess Posts: 315 Member
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    I went for a walk, including past my church (which is open for private prayer during specific hours, but not at the particular time I went by) and through part of my local shopping district (lots of little local shops). I kind of just wanted to see if the shops had any signs about whether they'd be open once the "stay at home" order goes into effect or anything about delivery.

    My local grocery (meat market) is going to be open with limits on how many can come in and is asking that non-elderly/vulnerable don't come during the first two hours of each day. The pet food store is doing curbside pickup (although this is a walking district more than a driving one). Some stores had already shut down.

    Neighborhood sidewalks were largely empty, although some people were out walking dogs or just walking. I passed a few buses that had just a tiny number of people in them. A few people were out running and a couple of people were biking, and I saw a father outside playing with his small child.

    I was out driving today partially just to get out of the house, but also to find the location of the blood drive I'm going to next week (yay! I found one that was making whole blood donation appointments!) and to drop off a few nonperishables at a food bank in the same vicinity, and I saw a bus with the electronic sign on the front displaying "BUS FULL / WAIT FOR NEXT BUS." By normal standards, it was practically empty, but I guess the driver didn't think anymore people could get on and maintain six feet of separation.

    The Memphis Area Transit Authority released new guidelines for buses today based on the mayor’s orders. I don’t remember the exact details but it was limited capacity with space between people enforced by police tape inside the bus.

    This only makes sense, if they're also going to prevent people via walking pass each other to get to & via, their seats. For instance mandate that each passenger that enters, sit rear to front of the bus 1st. If a middle passenger's stop's prior to a front passenger, exit all passengers front to rear until the middle passenger exits. Then reload those passengers by whom'll exit last 1st, via the middle.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    lightenup2016 wrote: »
    I’m a little vexed at the usage of the word “hoarding”. Why don’t people understand the idea of preparing, and increased demand? Here’s a little math example:
    My town has a population of roughly 166,000. If we assume that equals roughly 55,000 households, and each household normally buys toilet paper every 30 days, then on any given day, there are 1833 people buying toilet paper in my town. Now, within the span of 3 days, the world goes crazy, sports are canceled, historic parades canceled, schools closing, companies talking about supply issues coming soon, and the very real possibility of being stuck at home for 14-30 days. So now, within a span of 3 days, people start thinking (and spreading the word), that toilet paper, among other things, could soon be scarce. So on the 4th day, let’s suppose instead of the usual 1833 people buying toilet paper in my town, today 5 times the normal amount, or 9166 people/households decide they better stock up on toilet paper. For many (like me), this might have only been less than a week earlier than they normally would have bought it. Most only buy one package, maybe two. Even though it’s a 5-fold increase in purchases, it’s a huge hit to the shelves in the stores. Now people are seeing empty shelves (one article I read mentioned how toilet paper is quite bulky, and takes up a lot of shelf space, so it clears out relatively quickly compared to other products), and the next day or two also result in another 9166 people buying (or trying to buy) toilet paper in my town. Well now the stores are really depleted, people are having to get in early to the stores to try to find any tp, and now you’re running into people who haven’t purchased any tp in 30 days, and those people who are about to be completely out, can’t find any. People go to stores early in the morning to get the tp straight off the trucks, and then the stores empty quickly of tp. People going later in the day call those early people “hoarders”.

    Why is this called hoarding? Are people really seeing others buying 8 packages at a time? And are the same exact people arriving early to stores everyday, day after day, to get more and more tp? Are they sleeping on top of rolls of tp in their homes?

    Maybe I’m just not much of a cynic, but I don’t call it hoarding, I call it a run on the stores in a short span of time, instead of the usual steady stream. If Americans will recall, just 7-10 days ago, life was still completely normal!!

    Just my $.02. I’m sure I’ll hear from people who have seen actual hoarding, but I personally have not. Please feel free to correct my wrong thinking 😊

    Edited to account for households, not total population, buying tp.

    Yes, you will hear from people who have seen hoarding. I saw 2 situations in the last 2 times that I was at the store.

    First was 9 days ago when our stores were starting to limit toilet paper only and there was news of TP and hand sanitizer specifically being bought out completely. There were some still left on the shelf, but not nearly as full as normal. The limit this store had put on them at the time was 4 packs per customer, but that didn't clarify whether they were talking about the big 36 roll packs of double-sized rolls or the small 4 roll packs of regular sized / small rolls. The woman in front of me in the checkout had an entire cart full of distilled water. Probably cleared the entire shelf. I got to talking to her and she was going to drink it, which is a bad idea. I hope she is heeding my advice to add a pinch of salt to each bottle before drinking. This was a case of an older couple, and got the idea that they lived alone. With how much water they had, if they were drinking it and it was the right kind of water to drink, should last around 2 months.

    Second case: Same store yesterday was almost entirely cleared out of everything. Some things were entirely gone while others were mostly gone. There was absolutely no TP and absolutely no distilled water (I actually need distilled water for the CPAP on my humidifier and I'm starting to get low... should have got some before crazy lady got to them). Wierd thing is that there were some jugs of drinking water and yet no distilled water at all. I'm betting more people are drinking distilled. There were 4 cartons of eggs left, all medium dozen. Normally, I wouldn't eat eggs as I've been trying to mostly practice the lion diet recently (a version of carnivore that is beef only), but there was no beef left at all and I had to find other ideas. I almost felt bad for taking 2 of the 4 remaining cartons, but then I turned around and saw a woman filling her cart with bread. She stacked them 3 high and filled half the "floor space" in her card. I guess they were not limiting bread quantities. I didn't talk to this person, so no idea why she needed so much bread. However, she appeared to be 60's and I would think is an empty nester. Except for someone running a breakfast restaurant and preparing toast / french toast for that many people, it wouldn't fit. To go through that much bread before it goes bad in a single home would mean there are probably 15-20 people living there each eating primarily sandwiches or toast for 2 meals/day. I just can't see that being anything other than hoarding.

    This is what I've seen and keep in mind that I'm not even going to the store all that often. I can't imagine what I would have seen if I had been there in the 8 days between when so many things became sold out and the rest mostly sold out.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited March 2020
    lightenup2016 wrote: »
    I’m a little vexed at the usage of the word “hoarding”. Why don’t people understand the idea of preparing, and increased demand? Here’s a little math example:
    My town has a population of roughly 166,000. If we assume that equals roughly 55,000 households, and each household normally buys toilet paper every 30 days, then on any given day, there are 1833 people buying toilet paper in my town. Now, within the span of 3 days, the world goes crazy, sports are canceled, historic parades canceled, schools closing, companies talking about supply issues coming soon, and the very real possibility of being stuck at home for 14-30 days. So now, within a span of 3 days, people start thinking (and spreading the word), that toilet paper, among other things, could soon be scarce. So on the 4th day, let’s suppose instead of the usual 1833 people buying toilet paper in my town, today 5 times the normal amount, or 9166 people/households decide they better stock up on toilet paper. For many (like me), this might have only been less than a week earlier than they normally would have bought it. Most only buy one package, maybe two. Even though it’s a 5-fold increase in purchases, it’s a huge hit to the shelves in the stores. Now people are seeing empty shelves (one article I read mentioned how toilet paper is quite bulky, and takes up a lot of shelf space, so it clears out relatively quickly compared to other products), and the next day or two also result in another 9166 people buying (or trying to buy) toilet paper in my town. Well now the stores are really depleted, people are having to get in early to the stores to try to find any tp, and now you’re running into people who haven’t purchased any tp in 30 days, and those people who are about to be completely out, can’t find any. People go to stores early in the morning to get the tp straight off the trucks, and then the stores empty quickly of tp. People going later in the day call those early people “hoarders”.

    Why is this called hoarding? Are people really seeing others buying 8 packages at a time? And are the same exact people arriving early to stores everyday, day after day, to get more and more tp? Are they sleeping on top of rolls of tp in their homes?

    Maybe I’m just not much of a cynic, but I don’t call it hoarding, I call it a run on the stores in a short span of time, instead of the usual steady stream. If Americans will recall, just 7-10 days ago, life was still completely normal!!

    Just my $.02. I’m sure I’ll hear from people who have seen actual hoarding, but I personally have not. Please feel free to correct my wrong thinking 😊

    Edited to account for households, not total population, buying tp.

    Your description of why the disruption in TP supply (vs immense amounts of actual hoarding) is what a piece in the Chi Trib explained too (I linked it upthread some days ago, but certainly don't assume everyone saw it). It makes total sense to me, and the conclusion of the piece was don't worry, this is a short term thing and the supply chain is fine -- there's not going to be an ongoing TP shortage.

    What I saw personally was a shortage in TP and some things immediately after everyone started worrying about this, followed by it gradually getting more back to normal in the stores, and then another run on the stores after the "stay at home" order was announced (not hoarding, but everyone thinking they need to buy things at the same time), and now that the stay at home order is in place, it will likely adjust again.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    bmeadows380 wrote: »
    My sister had worked at Lowe's for over 5 years until she got fired this past summer. She took a job with Krogers, which now may be seen as a blessing in disguise - Krogers is considered essential, so her job should be safe. Lowe's, on the other hand, would likely have laid her off.

    Does Lowes not count as essential? What happens if there’s a wiring issue or the water heater breaks or the door falls off the hinges? I can think of about fifteen things that would make it impossible to keep sheltering in place that could go wrong with no hardware store.
    Here's what I found:

    From HuffPost: While the list may vary according to local concerns and the nature of a given event, disaster or pandemic, here is a general idea of what’s considered “essential” in emergencies, according to various governments, including San Francisco, Miami, New York state and Miami-Dade County:

    • Gas stations, auto supply stores, auto repair shops and related facilities

    • Pharmacies

    • Grocery stores, farmers markets, food banks and convenience stores

    • Liquor stores

    • Restaurants (only for delivery, takeout and drive-thru)

    • Hardware stores and plumbers

    • Contractors and other tradesmen, appliance repair personnel

    • Exterminators and other service providers

    • Landscape and pool care businesses, including residential landscape and pool care

    • Construction sites and engineering and architecture firms

    • Banks and related financial institutions including insurance and accounting services

    • Phone and computer sellers

    • Community benefit organizations on a case-by-case basis

    • Laundromats, dry cleaners and laundry service providers

    • Healthcare providers, hospitals, clinics and healthcare operations including research and laboratory services, medical wholesale and distribution, and dentists

    • Businesses that provide shelter and/or social services

    • Newspapers, television, radio and other media outlets

    • Businesses offering mailing and shipping services, including post office boxes

    • Airlines, taxis and other private transportation providers

    • Home-based care for seniors, adults or children

    • Assisted living facilities, nursing homes, adult day care centers and senior facilities

    • Pet supply stores

    • Veterinary offices

    • Police stations

    • Fire stations

    • Building code enforcement

    • Jails

    • Courts

    • Garbage/sanitation and recycling services

    • Public transportation (Muni, BART, subways)

    • Utilities (water, power and gas, telecommunications)

    • Certain city, county, state and federal offices

    • Funeral homes, crematoriums and cemeteries

    • Maintenance staff, cleaners, janitors and doormen

    • Manufacturing including food processing, chemical, pharmaceutical, agricultural, paper products, safety and sanitary products
    https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/what-are-essential-services-jobs-185047320.html

    That's a longer list than we used to have (before the curfew was announced, now it's even shorter). I'm curious why liquor stores are considered essential.

    I cannot understand why alcohol stores would be considered essential either, but I have to admit, I haven't wanted a drink for as long as I can remember, as much as I do now.
    A lot of those places I wouldn't consider essential but you can always dig further and reach for reasons why a certain place should remain open. :(

    And I kind of agree with the poster who mentioned isolation being an all or nothing action. There are still too many gaps if we're talking isolation, too many places where people are not taking this seriously. Too many what-if's and not enough information. Many people are still trying to live their normal daily routines and are late in adjusting their thinking to this new way of living. :(

    Has Snowflake shared how Italy has locked down their public services and which ones remain accessible? As well as any other places that have become more stringent with isolating, such as NYC or California, etc.? I'm sorry if I missed it already, I either skipped the info unintentionally(there's been a LOT) or forgot.

    Vets are considered essential but there again, a pet care place 15 minutes away, had a client who was sick, and later in the day, confirmed positive. They had to contact all who were exposed. :( I called my vet yesterday, they've cancelled all non-emergency visits and will take it week by week. I asked about the flea meds.( prescription only)and they've been taking people's orders, placing them in a box outside their door.

    So, yes, steps are definitely being taken to decrease exposure but it definitely leaves me feeling like there are still way too many gaps. :(


    They had a story on the news here recently about a vet clinic where the humans are instructed to drive to the back of the building and wait in their cars for a gloved worker to come out and take the pet patient from the car. The humans never enter the clinic.

    There was also a story about a priest hearing confession sitting on a chair out in the church parking lot, and people drive up and stay in their cars (looked like a greater distance than your typical fast-food drive through, and those are still open).

    Our vet clinic went to that procedure a week or so ago.

    Until yesterday Catholic churches here were open for private prayer (during certain hours, anyway) and some form of reconciliation (I did not check how they were handling that) even though we had no public masses (but streamed masses were encouraged), but since we got a statewide "stay at home/shelter in place" order the churches here are no longer open (archdiocese's interpretation of the order), and they are working out the details as to how to handle reconciliation. Weddings, baptisms, and funerals are postponed, but for extreme circumstances baptisms (vs. the public celebration).
  • spiriteagle99
    spiriteagle99 Posts: 3,749 Member
    One of the churches here was going to have services this morning in the Drive-in theater that still exists about 20 miles north of us.
  • ReenieHJ
    ReenieHJ Posts: 9,724 Member
    SisterSue, you get a 10++ for your very thoughtful action of offering freebies to those who need it!!

    I've stuck with my usual once a week shopping, am a little ahead on a couple things, mainly for my dogs. :blush: But am finding stores have little to none of: paper products, cleaners, and bread. I haven't been able to get one loaf of bread in 10 days now. Not even frozen bread dough. I'll have to resort to homemade but I remember trying that a couple times, years and years ago. :(
  • RetiredAndLovingIt
    RetiredAndLovingIt Posts: 1,395 Member
    edited March 2020
    I was just reading that we as a nation, need to stop the virus (not just flatten the curve) by totally shutting everything down.
  • DecadeDuchess
    DecadeDuchess Posts: 315 Member
    RetiredAndLovingIt wrote: »
    I was just reading that we as a nation, need to stop the virus (not just flatten the curve) by totally shutting everything down.

    Unfortunately most of us aren't self sufficient enough, for that to occur & the death toll to not exceed that, of this virus alone.
  • lkpducky
    lkpducky Posts: 17,756 Member
    edited March 2020
    Diatonic12 wrote: »
    We have very limited medical facilities. They're telling everyone that unnecessary elective surgeries will be put on hold. Older folkaronies are pulling their dirt bikes out of their barns, getting back upon horses and doing things they haven't done in years. Falling off and breaking bones. Ayup.We must all use our heads besides something to part our ears with. I saw a senior whizzing by on his dirt bike last night. I covered my eyes and held my breath.
    Fear, stress and anxiety makes people do some reckless things. They're not thinking straight. Snowmobiles, horses, moto-bikes and bicycles. We all need to think these things through so we don't put more stress on our medical systems. That is all. <3
    I am stealing that expression.
  • JRsLateInLifeMom
    JRsLateInLifeMom Posts: 2,275 Member
    Emergency services would be open. Grocery online only maybe curb side still of course workers keep working inside. Shipping companies open. Everything else closed by what I understand.
  • DecadeDuchess
    DecadeDuchess Posts: 315 Member
    spiriteagle99 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, the economic and psychological consequences of such a complete shut down would likely cause more deaths than the virus.

    You're correct. I saw via a YouTube video of Reddit, that there're laid off employees calling into the suicide prevention hotlines.
  • Katmary71
    Katmary71 Posts: 7,147 Member
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    bmeadows380 wrote: »
    My sister had worked at Lowe's for over 5 years until she got fired this past summer. She took a job with Krogers, which now may be seen as a blessing in disguise - Krogers is considered essential, so her job should be safe. Lowe's, on the other hand, would likely have laid her off.

    Does Lowes not count as essential? What happens if there’s a wiring issue or the water heater breaks or the door falls off the hinges? I can think of about fifteen things that would make it impossible to keep sheltering in place that could go wrong with no hardware store.

    I don't know about Lowes but in my neighborhood Facebook group people were disgusted at how many people were buying plants at one of the local stores. I've been starting a ton of old seeds and need more potting soil, I'm so tempted to go buy some to plant more seeds but between herbs, heirloom tomatoes, and cucumbers I really don't have the room and will already be giving away a lot. I'm higher risk too because of health problems so I should keep my rear at home anyhow, the grocery store was more than enough.

    Speaking of the grocery stores my stores were out of the expected, what surprised me was the $5 plastic bins of spring greens/spinach were gone and packaged salad mixes were gone. One store didn't have any yogurt under $10 and the other had a little and the only white meat was chicken legs which I don't eat. I think the neighborhood wild turkeys may be looked at in a new way!
  • Gisel2015
    Gisel2015 Posts: 4,192 Member
    I wish that people that thinks that the present health situation is not a big deal or that they are immune because they are young and healthy, read this posting.

    Emma, a 12-year-old girl, is "fighting for her life" in an Atlanta hospital after testing positive for the coronavirus, according to her cousin.
    Justin Anthony told CNN that Emma was diagnosed with pneumonia on March 15 and tested positive for coronavirus on Friday night. As of Saturday, she was on a ventilator and is currently in stable condition, Anthony said.
    Emma had no pre-existing conditions. She has not traveled recently and it's unknown how she contracted the virus, according to Anthony.
    Children's Healthcare of Atlanta-Scottish Rite Hospital confirmed that a current patient tested positive for Covid-19, though it declined to go into details."

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/22/us/georgia-coronavirus-girl-hospitalized/index.html
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    snowflake954 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    A coworker in her late 60s asked me a question that I honestly don't know the answer to. "Since I'm in a high risk group, am I just supposed to stay quarantined for a year? Until they find a consistently effective treatment or a vaccine? Not hug my grandkids? Not celebrate holidays with family? Not go anywhere there might be a crowd?"

    All I could think to tell her is to do it for the time being to allow the pros to learn more about the virus, and that every day she can maintain it increases what they know, but I could tell it sounded as empty to her as it did to me.

    This is what they're telling us, so see if it sounds good to you as a response. Right now isolation will slow down the rate of infection. If a senior goes to the hospital when the doctors are exhausted and the hospital is overcrowded--your chances of recovery are less. If they can slow things down and eventually you get it, you'll be treated with everything they've got. We just had a 95 year old woman that recovered and they were interviewing her. So, it's not a death sentence, by any means. We just want to give people like her a fighting chance. If we all do this and give the scientists a breathing space, we'll come out of it. But the population has to be really behind this.

    Thank you :heart:

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